Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Airport City Previous Next
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1646
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 11:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.metrotimes.com/edit orial/story.asp?id=8957

Interesting article and great concept, which is why it will never work in thus region.
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River_rat
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Username: River_rat

Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 68.166.44.44
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 11:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting (and long) article that, once again, raises the question of transit in the Detroit area. The only city in the US that is larger than Detroit that does NOT have an active or under construction rail system is San Antonio, Texas. This does not recognize the People Mover as a true transit system. The people mover is shorter in length thatn the DFW airport system.

To be a viable and strong economic city, it is imperative to have a comprehensive transit system that includes rail, light, or heavy. The biggest deterrant to transit in Detroit remains the riders concern for personal safety. The resurgence of the NYC subway coincided with the return to relative security in the Guiliani era. The great success of the system in Washington is attributable to the lack of crime. There have been two fatal criminal attacks in thirty years! The safety factor is an absolute for public transit to succeed. Every station has to be secure, every fare jumper has to be prosecuted and every passenger feel secure. No radios blaring, no eating on trains, etc., and all violations ticketed with fines. Bus feeder systems need the same security and have to be planned in coordination with the rail system.

It takes years to plan and implement a system; time is running out for Detroit to join the group of successful cities with real transit opportunities for the public. It starts with public safety. Until that is achieved, real and perceived, Detroit can not really rebuild to its potential.


the river rat, Minister of Transportation
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1330
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Obviously, this Keith Schneider guy doesn't get it. You can't compare Detroit to Chicago, and Doug Kelbaugh's ideas are not realistic. Oh yeah--people don't want to ride trains, either.

Cynical-atcha!
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2548
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.202.227.12
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dumbest.Idea.Ever.

Airport Cities = new suburbia
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 26
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, development is bad, we need to keep everything the way it is, and screw anyone that doesn't agree. Maybe they'd be better off in Chicago.


.......
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 44
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 68.166.44.44
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danindc, I thought that you would point out the fact that the DC Metro has just a few less riders EVERY DAY than the population of Detroit.

Who IS this guy Schneider? Sounds like he understands how to promote ecomonic growth and success.

You can be my Vice Minister of Transportation.
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Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2399
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.51
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People don't like to ride trains? People will ride trains and buses as long as they are CLEAN, EFFICIENT, and EFFECTIVE. The PACE buses for suburban Chicago residents have TV modules for local, national, and international news; comfy cloth seats, and handicap-accessible ramps. I thought I was sitting on a charter bus. This was a public bus that runs around suburban Chicago!!

So tell me why people won't ride trains??!!? People in Chicago ride the trains ALL the time. It will be foolish to pay super-expensive parking prices when you can hop on a commuter train for half the cost.
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1331
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 2:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Schneider does have his act together, and I typically enjoy anything of his that gets published. He has this nasty habit of thinking his ideas through.

The thing that troubled me about the article, is it seems Wayne County thinks they are planning something innovative. They're really not, which goes to show how out of touch they are. Cities have been busy connecting passenger rail lines to their airports for the past couple decades (BWI was the first back in the early 1980s). It seems that Detroit is just starting to catch on to concepts that are already well-known elsewhere. While that's not necessarily bad, to tout them as (somewhat) revolutionary is just plain ignorant.

That's not to say this is a bad idea--Detroit certainly needs to build better transit and denser communities in order to compete economically. What got left hanging, though, is what happens to the downtown core, and how that figures into these plans.

And no, River Rat. The DC Metro doesn't quite carry Detroit's population every day. Still got a couple hundred thousand a day more to go.... :-)
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 71.126.174.70
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 4:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C'mon, Danidc. The true population of Detroit is ~875,000 and does't the DC Metro have a daily ridership of about 750,000? I know it has carried more than that on peak days, so call it close enough or you can't be my Vice-Minister of Transportation.

I concur completely that the idea Schneider proposes isn't very novel or new; proposing it for Detroit is both. It won't happen because the local governments are so polarized they would never agree to any of the necessary conditions such as funding, routes, stations, etc. ad infintum.

the river rat, still wanting to be Minister of Transportation
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Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 70
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.60.133.115
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 5:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People will ride mass transit if it is built. I am willing to bet that we would have just as many riders daily as Washington DC if we had a system like their's. I know many people, who are surburbanites, that say they will ride the transit to work and downtown. I like the ideas that they have for the transit. And yes they do say something about the Downtown Core. There would be a light rail line extending down Michigan Avenue. New Center and Downtown would benefit from this plan.
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1332
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wouldn't be so sure about that. The Ann Arbor/Detroit commuter rail study shows real promise, and has a lot of public support at the western end of the route. Given that they have $100 million in federal money, the entire thing could be studied and up and running within two years.

Since you keep prodding me, River Rat...

Yesterday's ridership on the Metro (rail only) was 720,456 (another 436,000 or so rode Metrobus). The weekday average seems to be about 700,000 people. According to Metro, these are the six highest ridership days:

1) 06-09-04 850,636 Reagan State Funeral
2) 01-20-93 811,257 Clinton Inaugural #1
3) 10-16-95 804,146 Million Man March
4) 06-10-04 763,121 Reagan State Funeral
5) 01-19-05 757,126 Bush Inaugural (#2) Events
6) 04-06-05 755,559 Cherry Blossoms

More useless trivia, I know. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 35
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 24.192.25.47
Posted on Thursday, March 09, 2006 - 10:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

700,000 people will not ride transit in Detroit until jobs are centralized.

Believe me, that's not saying it shouldn't be built...just that those kinds of numbers aren't to be expected for decades.
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1334
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.32.126.240
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 1:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly. BUT, if you can get 10,000 people a day to ride commuter rail, wouldn't that be a plus?
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Msteinman
Member
Username: Msteinman

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 72.240.147.57
Posted on Friday, March 10, 2006 - 1:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they build it they will come.
Sure it doesnt work for all but anything for detroit would be best.
If you build a economically feasible transit system for downtown Detroit that lead out to the suburbs, it would reinvigorate the downtown area. Business like to grow where there's lots of traffic, but their are some other factors involved like crime and location. Change is inevitable. Detroit would benefit if they installed a Mass Transit System that would ease the congestion and put less strain on Michigans road problem. It would put business downtown and overall help the city of Detroit. As for the article, its just a dream.
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Putnam
Member
Username: Putnam

Post Number: 90
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 70.236.211.101
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 7:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Devin Scillian interviewed two dudes on this topic on Sunday. Anyone else catch it? What were their names?

Planning based on petroleum restriction is the only logical choice at this point, no?

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