  Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Baghdad Is Safer Than Detroit Bernard Condon 03.27.06 For all you cowboy investors out there, check out Iraq’s new government bonds. Issued in January to pay off Saddam-era commercial debt, the 5.8% bonds due 2028 are now yielding 8.7%--a mere 3.8 points over comparable Treasurys. Meanwhile General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) bonds due 2033 recently traded hands at a 7.6-point spread. Translation: A 98-year-old company that has not missed a debt payment in memory is twice as likely to burn lenders as is a year-old Middle East republic teetering on civil war. Perhaps investors think Washington is more likely to bail out Baghdad than Detroit. Or it’s yet another example of how easy money has driven yields down for many iffy securities--junk bonds, tradable bank loans and emerging market debt (see related column). When Shiites took to the streets to protest the Askariya mosque bombing last month, the Iraqi bonds didn’t even flinch. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on March 10, 2006) | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 37 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
I didn't like him but Kerry had a good point. I think it went something like why are we opening fire stations in Iraq and closing them here at home? The things that the U.S. could have done with all of that $$$$$.... | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3268 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Can you spell O I L ? jjaba. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1146 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.85.155.145 |
OIK Nope. | ||
Damon Member Username: Damon Post Number: 656 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.139.5.15 |
I would take John Kerry over Bush anyday. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1048 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
... The Iraqi oil reserves are valued at $$2.7 Trillion$$$$ Nuff said .. connect the dots... Remember that the civil war was over money as well... as Northern businesses failed, the south was making big loot and evading almost all taxation from washington using states rights as an excuse. 65% of all exports from the U.S. in 1860 were cotton related... Nuff said.. Connect the dots when they wanted to disjoin the union... Wars are either over relegion or money... ALWAYS... without a doubt. and usually most are a combination of the 2... Becuase those are the only 2 things that human nature will be willing to take a chance on its life for. But nobody ever wants to ashame themselves to admit the nature of well... human nature... so whatever they can sell the war on... makes the people feel good enough to back it... In the civil war it was slavery... this war... well.. fuk i forget.. I dont even remember that many people supporting it.. they just did it anyway... | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
Machoken, In retrospect that would seem like a good idea. Although, all J.K. had going for him was that he wasn't Bush. He should have put that on his bumper stickers. Kerry was just so.......Kerry. It seems like the perfect time for a strong 3rd party candidate. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 664 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.30.175 |
election 2004: stupidity versus dishonesty. 321brian, i read an article today featuring greenspan's fresh remarks that 2008/2012 will bring a very strong third-party contender. but, back to the thread topic - iraq has something the auto industry is lacking - "liquid" assets. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 530 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.56 |
But without Detroit and the Auto industry, Iraq is a moot point. All too often with this current Govt I feel they are looking too much across the pond and not enough at home. Spending tens of Billions for this short-term security "issue" of energy, but in the meantime, the US is falling apart. And certainly, Detroit is at the bottom of the l o n g list of places for the Govt to invest in. Just doesn't make sense. | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 268 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.58.36.2 |
Terrible title. Makes me cringe | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 473 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Sorry, Detroitduo, If the recent economic data is true, Michigan is falling apart, the rest of the nation is doing OK, we are a one state recession. Besides government has thrown money into Detroit for years and it has done nothing, private money and investment will fix the city, government cannot. | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 2953 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.200.207 |
"we are a one state recession" Bullshit. Michigan isn't the only state having problems. All you have to do is look one state south to disprove this, Ohio is a mess as well. Michigan doesn't even have the highest unemployment rate, Kentucky, Alaska and Mississippi all have higher unemployement rates. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 512 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.169.65 |
I concur, Czar. Hey you, just the facts. and BTW - I can spell oil in more than one language. later - naturalsister | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 536 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.56 |
"government has thrown money into Detroit for years and it has done nothing,..." Perhaps the State govt. has helped Detroit, but the Feds have done nothing but ignore us. shit, they've ignored the State, too. If we got even a quarter of the cash flowing into some of the Southern States, we could clean up a bunch of our areas. If the Feds would stop supporting bad building decisions on coastal areas and in flood zones, maybe the money could be available for the rest of the Nation. Why is it that Michigan's exports so much money for road and transortation projects in other states? Have you been to Houston, lately? the sheer amount of freeways they have is astounding! The sprawl is incredible. Atlanta? Yea, another freeway hogging region. But poor little Michigan gets nothing. So, screw Detroit. If they can't get private investment, then it's not worth it. If the Govt isn't even interested to help us, why would anyone else? | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2171 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
the title of this article kinda reinforces the point that what REALLY matters when it comes to Detroit has nuthin' ta do with crime ... | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 474 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Detroitduo, This is a paste from a post I did earlier and it looks at some of these issues in our state and region. I am sorry, but it is a bit long. Also, it is not the feds job to look after us, it IS the responsibility of local and state government and yes screw Detroit, if private money does not think it is a sound investment, why should anyone? However, I am happy to see that starting to change in many parts of our city. enjoy the post: "STATEMENT FROM SECRETARY ALPHONSO JACKSON ON RECORD MINORITY HOMEOWNERSHIP The Census Bureau released data today showing that minority homeownership hit an all-time high during the first quarter of 2005. The new quarterly record rate of 51.6 percent means that 15.7 million minority families now own their own homes. There was also a new quarterly record for Hispanic homeownership. The rate of 49.7 percent means there are now 5.8 million Hispanic homeowners in the United States. Overall homeownership was also at an all-time high in the first quarter, with 74.5 million American families now owning their own homes." Link: http://www.hud.gov/news/releas e.cfm?content=pr05-057.cfm Regarding OIF and our nations unemployment: "THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: JANUARY 2006 Nonfarm payroll employment increased by 193,000 in January, and the unemployment rate fell to 4.7 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported today. Job gains occurred in several industries, including construction, mining, food services and drinking places, health care, and financial activities." Link:http://www.bls.gov/news.releas e/empsit.nr0.htm Regarding our European friends, lets look at France and Germany: "German hopes that economic reforms would start to work their way through into economic expansion may have to wait till 2006, with the latest unemployment rate of 10.8 per cent pointing to the jobless rate rising towards 5 million during the year." France: " In France, where unemployment is close to 10 per cent, a newly-announced ?2 billion programme to encourage innovative industries that will draw on privatisation proceeds will take time to become effective, and may not be big enough to create the 'national champions' the French dream of." It should be noted that France has even embraced the idea of privatisation in order to revive thier economy, something our elected idiots in Detroit cannot seem to manage and in case people are wondering about the rest of Europe, many of the nations are doing worse then France and Germany (but some better.) So it seem that we are able to keep unemployment down and fight wars, etc. So as a nation the President seems to be doing an OK job. Now as everyone knows, all politics is local, so lets look at Michigan and Detroit. Michigan: " Michigan Unemployment Rate (Seasonally Adjusted) December 2005 Change Over Month Change Over Year 6.7 % + 0.1 - 0.8 Link: http://www.michlmi.org/ and Detroit:The highest unemployment rates among the large areas were reported in Detroit-Warren- Livonia, Mich., 7.9 percent, and Memphis, Tenn.-Miss.-Ark., 7.3 percent. Link:http://economics.about.com/od/ metropolitanemployment/a/metro _jan05.htm So I would think that it is our local leaders who have failed the residents of Michigan and Detroit, as the rest of the nation seem to be doing OK, lets look at the Single Business Tax and Michigans tax environment: "Michigan has been in a "one-state recession" for several years, while every other state — except those slammed by hurricanes — has experienced impressive growth. The causes are complex, but largely come down to the fact that Michigan is burdened with destructive business taxes, excessive regulations and bad labor laws that make ours one of the least competitive business climates in the United States. Exhibit number one is the SBT. Only a handful of states levy all three of the following: A sales tax, a personal income tax and a business tax. These states are economic growth laggards. Not only does Michigan belong to this losers club, but the SBT is almost the worst business tax in the nation. It is obscenely complex, the rate is very high and it is filled with perverse incentives (for example, employers who provide health insurance pay more tax)." Link:http://www.mackinac.org/articl e.aspx?ID=7588 Detroit Tax Rates: City of Detroit 2005 Income Tax Rates January 2005 The City of Detroit has suspended the individual tax rate reduction that was scheduled for July 1, 2005. Income tax rates for the calendar year 2005 and subsequent years are as follows unless otherwise notified: Resident Individuals 2.50% Non-Resident Individuals 1.25% Corporations 1.00% This affects 2006 employer withholding account filings and estimated income tax filers. Link:http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/fi nincometax/incometax_rates.htm Property Tax: HOMESTEAD: 53.7011 Non HOMESTEAD: 71.7011 I will not post ALL the links for cities and other areas around Detroit, but lets just state that they are lower. So, Lowell, is this a failure of the president, or of local government? Number of city employees: During the 1990s, Mayor Dennis Archer increased the workforce. From 1994 to 2002, the number of city employees — including police, fire and EMS officers — increased from 17,797 to 20,990, says mayoral spokesman Howard Hughey. Kilpatrick has cut the size of the force to 18,705. Other similar sized cities are functioning with thousands fewer employees, so if you are wondering why Detroit cannot afford basic services, look at it's payroll. And while this article is dated (so are Detroits problems), but the updated material shows a continuing trend: The budgets of Cleveland, Detroit, Philadelphia, New York, St. Louis, and other large central cities have not been shrinking; they have been rapidly expanding for decades. In constant 1990 dollars, local governments spent, on average, $435 per resident in 1950, $571 in 1965, and $1,004 in 1990. Also: The key policy question addressed in this study is, What do growth cities--Phoenix, Raleigh, and San Diego, for example--do differently from shrinking cities--such as Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit? The answer is found, at least partially, in the fiscal policies of the cities. Using Bureau of the Census city finance data from 1965, 1980, and 1990 for the 76 largest cities, we find significant and consistent patterns of higher spending and taxes in the low-growth cities than in the high-growth cities. Link:http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/p a-188.html In summation: Considering that the rest of the nation seems to be doing OK and we in MI seem to be the problem. I would say that high taxes on individuals income, property and business has been far more damaging to Detroit and MI, then the President's national policy, which seem OK. These local issues are just that, local and could be corrected as such, locally. Instead we cling to a dying auto industry, highly paid, underskilled unions, bloated government beaucracys, and high taxes for our salvation. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2245 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.18.32 |
Ask Sen. Levin that question. For a powerful Senator who's been in office since 1978, I sure don't see him bringing home the bacon. I'm no fan of pork, but if there's going to be pork (and there's a TON these days) why not capture some for the taxpaying Michiganders? We might be better off with one D and one R senator. That way we'd always have one senator in the majority and in the same party as the president, no matter what happens. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1417 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
I seem to remember a Chrysler bailout a few years ago. I seem to remember the rejection of the Kyoto Accord a few years ago. I seem to remember EPA regulations, CAFE regulations, and other federal environmental and consumption regulations that have been weakened solely because of the impact it would have on Detroit. There are many kinds of Federal support, and I am pretty damn sure that the accommodations made over the last 30-40 years in deference to the US auto industry vastly out weigh the "big dig" and other pork projects. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 540 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.56 |
I disagree that those consessions have helped Detroit in the long. If anything, it has hurt us, because it caused the Detroit OEMs to sit back and coast without improving their technologies and remaining competitive. A better decision by the Feds would have been to raise the EPA and CAFE regulations, and give a subsidy or tax break to the automakers to help meet the new regulations. And besides, it didn't do anything for Detroit, the City. Sorry, but it's my opinion. Gildas, your "report" is put together nicely. Thank you. While I agree with many of the points you have posted, I still disagree that the lack of money coming into Detroit is the fault of Detroit's local govt. not entirely. The State has a big control over the money channeling into Detroit. I really hope the private money, now being brought to Detroit will change many minds about our city, but many of these people have 50 years of hatred for the City behind them and they don't care about Detroit anymore, but their own smaller suburban cities. Overall, it boils down to the us vs. them attitude that continues and is used as Political Chum to get the sharks excited. I hate it. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1418 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Detroit Duo - Was not arguing the success of the programs, but refuting the statement the feds have done nothing but ignore us. You may say it has been ineffective, or even detrimental, but to say that the federal government has not crafted and/or rejected major, major pieces of legislation based on the interests of the auto-industry, is just flat out incorrect. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 542 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.56 |
*shrug* can't argue it, fully, but if you feel you need to pound the stake into my heart further, please feel free to. I personally feel that Detroit... as a whole business region and as a City... is invisible to the rest of the country and everyone would rather just forget that we exist. Perhaps they have thrown our industries a bone every now and again, but those industries squandered that and thus, we are what we are, today, because of it. I accept we have been given some "gifts" by the govt., but I still feel slighted, in many ways. Perhaps it's more because of local govt.... *shrug* too tired to think about it further, today. | ||
Bluehorseshoe Member Username: Bluehorseshoe Post Number: 338 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 68.85.153.230 |
Doesn't anyone else realize he doesn't mean the city of Detroit? When this article says "Detroit" it means GM & Ford, not the CofD. It's pretty common with the national business press. Kind of like when journalists say Washington in reference to the federal government, not the city. The title sounds bad when taken out of the context of analyzing the bond market. (By safer, he means that the spread on the Iraqi bonds implies that an Iraqi default is less likely than a GM default- and he is probably right.) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 273 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Duh! It was a Forbes article. Even John Forbes Kerry could have figured that one. |
