  Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1507 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.214.242 |
Given the recent events in which Herb Strather and other African American investors bought the St. Regis Hotel, and other former Motown artists, of African decent, investing in a restaurant inside the St. Regis Hotel, and the opening of the Grand City Grille by Frank Taylor, an African American restauranteur, it dawned on me that maybe the New Center area should be home to the proposed Africantown. An African American owned hotel and two African American owned restaurants, with other African American owned businesses at the corner of Woodward and Grand Boulevard, it appears that the beginnings of an African American owned business district are taking shape. Also, with other prominent businesses or organizations in the area with a large percentage of African American workers( Detroit Public Schools headquarters, the Fisher Building, and the State of Michigan offices in Cadillac Place), the catalyst for an Africantown could already be underway. Now, I realize that not all of the businesses in the area are African American owned, but there is potential to add more African American owned businesses in the area in either some of the vacant store fronts or on vacant land in the area. The potential for expansion is very real, if those looking for an African American business district look at what is taking place in the New Center area. At any rate, it's something to think about. Any thought? | ||
Ddaydave Member Username: Ddaydave Post Number: 326 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 67.149.185.244 |
I don`t care what race owns a business or restaurant I want good food and good service and you`ll have my business .. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
My thought is I don't care who owns it. However, judging by all the vacant store fronts across the city I would say that there is plenty of potential to add more African-American or Any-American owned business just about anywhere. | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 561 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.40.89.238 |
I like that: lets make Detroit's motto the AnyAmericanTown to fill vacant, boarded up store fronts. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 46 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.19.247 |
The only time I care who owns a place is if I know them. If I do you bet I'm looking for a comp. Look out for the Any-Americans in 06'!!!!! | ||
Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith Post Number: 97 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 68.41.202.23 |
Do white Africans who become American citizens refer to themselves as African Americans? | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 169 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.237.162.155 |
Dsmith, if they did, they wouldn't be wrong! | ||
Bobj Member Username: Bobj Post Number: 562 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.40.89.238 |
Good question - Yes | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1508 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.214.242 |
Why all of the off-topic responses? Damn, if I knew African American was going to offend so many people I would have gone with black, which offends some African Americans. I guess I will have to wait until Monday to get some serious feedback to this thread. Reading through this shit is a waste of time. | ||
Ddaydave Member Username: Ddaydave Post Number: 327 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 67.149.185.244 |
as a would be patron that would go to some of these places I think my response was serious feedback .. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1511 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.214.242 |
Well, Ddaydave, yours was the exception. | ||
Easydoesit Member Username: Easydoesit Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 69.246.122.172 |
personally, being 50% african/50% Greek (african heritage a part of my culture), I really wouldn't want an african town.... (just my 2 cents) | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1657 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.42.172.120 |
Royce, I put this idea in the same category as 99.9% of your ideas “Bad”. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1512 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.214.242 |
Merchantgander, I was making a suggestion that if Africantown is to become a reality, those interested in investing in Africantown might take notice to what's going on in the New Center area. A hotel that is black-owned, two to three restaurants that are black-owned(forgot about the New Center Deli) and prominent organizations(DPS and State of Michigan offices) with a large percentage of black employees, bring together the ingredients for a black business district. This is what I was pointing out, Merchantgander. It's too bad that you don't like my ideas to see what's going on. Your loss. (Message edited by royce on March 12, 2006) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1860 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.203 |
Royce, back when Mayor Archer had plans to make the former GM HQ in New Center the new City Hall, many African-American city employees and City Council members derided that idea as an idea with a "hidden agenda" to get African-Americans out of downtown. So the city is still in the "dumpy looking on the inside" City Hall on Jefferson, and the State of Michigan got a world class spacious office complex. I can think of 2 organizations that would be absolutely against an Africantown in New Center.... the Nederlander organization, and Henry Ford Hospital. No matter where the location of Africantown is, there will always be narrow minded suburbanites who will NEVER set foot near or in Africantown. And for both Henry Ford Hospital and the Fisher Theatre, that would be problematic for their business, since a significant percentage of their patrons come from the suburbs. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3317 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Well, first, you have to agree with what and "Africantown" would actually be. I would be for an Africantown if it would be centered on the idea of creating an authentic district that would actually attract African immigrants, or at least make that the focus. But rounding up a group of Black businessmen within a majority Black city filled with Black businesses, and then having the audacity to slapping an "Africantown" label on it is nothing more than a cheap, Disney-esque sham. I'll say it again, but I find it offensive to imply that in all of Black Detroit, there aren't enough quality businesses that could join and create a synergy for a retail/business district within the city of Detroit without having to slap and "Africantown" label on it. Forget about all of the obvious racist who would never set foot in a district, authentic or not. People who supported the last proposal first have to make the case to a sizable group of their own that sees this as a cheap, watered-down idea. | ||
623kraw Member Username: 623kraw Post Number: 833 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200 |
The New Center will always be the New Center. Who owns what in the New Center is completely irrelevant and the St. Regis will always be there. Labelling the New Center as "African Town" is not a good idea and will, like it or not, drive people of any race away. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1517 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.214.242 |
The problem with your assessment, Lmichigan, is that the reality is: African Americans don't own enough businesses in the city of Detroit. There is one black-owned grocery store throughout the city. At this point in time, and as far as I can determine, there are no black-owned gas stations. Lee Beauty Supply(Korean-owned) and other beauty supply stores are majority Asian-owned. Very few cleaners are black-owned. There are very few, if any, black-owned car dealerships in the city. Most of the strip-malls are owned by the non-blacks who own the gas stations, liguor stores, and grocery stores. There are very few black-owned drug stores. There are very few black-owned jewelry stores. There are very few black-owned clothing stores. Eliminate the number of black-owned barber shops and beauty shops and the number of black-owned businesses decreases enormously. Now, to counteract the trends mentioned above, African Americans might want to develop a business district where the businesses mentioned above can be cultivated for blacks by blacks. Now, I know that these businesses should be in the neighborhoods, but at some point if African Americans want to own more of the businesses mentioned above, then a black-owned business district is where it is most likely to happen. And this business district should be marketed as a black business district to encourage other blacks to patronize these black-owned businesses. Call it "Africantown" officially or call it "Africantown" unofficially, but the word should be put out that more black-owned businesses are needed in the city of Detroit, and the place where this can happen might be in the New Center area. BTW, for all of you who are offended by an area being called "Africantown," why no fuss over a business district called "Greektown?" Why no fuss over a new business district called "Asian Village?" Why no fuss over a neighborhood and business district called "Corktown?" Why when blacks say that they want a name for an area of town to represent themselves, "Africantown," some of you say that you or others(white suburbanites)won't patronize it? Why the double standard? Think about it. (Message edited by royce on March 12, 2006) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3319 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Royce, to answer your last paragraph, all of those areas developed organically, with hard work from immigrant populations, it's just that simple. The city did not handpick businesses and developers based on ethnicity or race to "create" and entire district from scratch. I personally find it down-right offensive that our people need government bureaucracy to create a Disney-fied district, and slap an "Africantown" sticker on it. That's not only offensive to the pride of my people, but to the true African Americans who come over hear and setup shop. You can call it "Africantown" all you want. What it is at its very heart is a land-grab by city government to make all of Detroit (Black, White, Hispanic, Arab...and otherwise) subsidize a "Black American Town." It offends my sensibilities that people are trying to push and spin this as an authentic African experience, when it would be anything but. I've got too much pride in my own people to ever put my support behind the particular plan that has been proposed. With all of that said, I have no problem with a Black American business district, and think that it is MUST in Black-majority Detroit. But, I don't support PUBLIC intervention by a city government in creating and subsidizing ANY type of neighborhood based SOLEY on race or ethnicity like this plan calls for. That's just a step further than what I'm willing to take. It goes even beyond Affirmative Action, which I support whole-heartedly. This must be a private ventue, first and foremost, but could apply for grants and subsidies just like any other private developer(s) would. Get my drift? (Message edited by lmichigan on March 12, 2006) | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1523 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.212.214.242 |
Lmichigan, I am in agreement with you that city government shouldn't be subsidizing such a business district. My contention here is that a black business district in the New Center would be a private venture. No public money. Lmichigan, what you seem to also be upset about is tne name. I'm suggesting that instead of a government-sponsored business district called "Africantown," that this "Africantown" be naturally cultivated by blacks through private investment. Hey, if you still have a problem with the name, then just call it whatever you wish. The name is not the crux of my discussion. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3320 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Yeah, I understand your originally post and like the idea, but it is the name, and how it takes you back to the whole Africantown debacle that gets me. And it is the name that will get to most, as well. I'm all for new retail/business districts in Detroit, since so many have disappeared, just be warned with how you propose it. I assume the title of your post is to get attention, right? Well, you may be getting more than you asked for, just saying. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1529 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.215.16.140 |
Lmichigan, it really shouldn't take much to get over the name "Africantown" if the business district is created from private money. That's what you want, isn't it? However, even after that, if you still can't get past the name "Africantown," then how do you justify the use of "Greektown" or "Asian Village" or "Corktown?" | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3329 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Once again, those were naturally grown areas, developed by private entities. They should have no negative connotations. Claude Anderson and some on the council effectively killed the "Africantown" name, and it will always come with the baggage of that boondoggle. I don't know why you keep trying to compare privately started and grown neighborhoods with the former Africantown proposal, as if I'm oppossed to Africantown because it uses the word "Africa." You've got to understand that, once again, apart from the real racist that have a problem with the name for racist reasons, there is an entire other contingent of people disgussed with how the city handled the former Africantown proposal, but not necessarily with the idea. | ||
Bluehorseshoe Member Username: Bluehorseshoe Post Number: 339 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 68.85.153.230 |
I know I probably shouldn’t step into this discussion, but I have a few thoughts on this issue and that’s exactly what this forum is for. First, I’ll start with a disclaimer: I am a Caucasian resident of Royal Oak. That’s right, I’m not black or African American and don’t live in the city. If you think that means I have no credibility and no right to speak on this issue (which seems to be the case with some who post here) I respectfully disagree. Also for me I would patronize an Africantown the same way I would the other ethnic neighborhoods such as Greektown, Corktown, Mexicantown, etc, as long as the service and products offered where of a high quality. Thus, I have no problem with a themed Africantown. Ideally these communities grow and develop organically, such as the neighborhoods above. When I was in DC last summer visiting my then-girlfriend, I remember reading an article in the Wash. Post about how an organic Nigerian neighborhood developing in the city based on the immigrant community and was now flourishing with restaurants and shops (sorry- I can’t find a link, I think it was around Memorial Day). It would be nice if a Detroit Africantown would act in a similar manner to attract immigrants and investment. However I also realize that Black Bottom- a true African American town- was bulldozed to expediently shuttle folks in and out of downtown with I-375, which is a shame. Also in my opinion, the government (at any level) should be blind to race, sex, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I would not personally advocate a government handout or special favor based on any of the above arbitrary characteristics. Perhaps an example that could be looked to would be the Mexicantown International Welcome Center and Mercado. The Mercado is a private venture, although it has received public funding. However while the Mercado is intended to promote Mexican and Hispanic culture by attracting retailers such as Mexican foods, high-end tequila, silver jewelry, etc., they are looking for local owners, but not necessarily Hispanic owners according to an interview by Model D of Ms. Maria-Elena Rodriguez of the Mexicantown Community Development Corp. (MDCC). I think the Mercado’s emphasis on Hispanic products and services, not on Hispanic owners, is allowing it to succeed. Moreover, from what I have read the Asian Village is not publicly funded, but a project of local investors led by Mr. Pangborn. If groups such as the Booker T. Washington Association, the Michigan Minority Business Development Council, and the Detroit Black Chamber of Commerce, etc. along with a few prominent business people would come together to spearhead an effort, that would be taken more seriously and have a better chance at success than a controversial academic coming in from out of town and asking for a city handout (yes, I know Anderson is a former Detroiter). I would also like to note that sometimes these ethnic neighborhoods can become a victim of their own success. When property values increase and retailers/investors from outside the local ethnicity realize the draw of the neighborhood, other businesses will eventually come in set up shop. For examples note Mosaic in Greektown and Slows in Corktown, neither is Greek or Irish, respectively. However I think this is a good sign because it illustrates a vibrant and attractive area and shouldn’t be discouraged if an Africantown arises. Although, the MDCC looks to prevent this at the Mercado by owning the underlying real estate and thus being able to control their tenant base. | ||
Mrsjdaniels Member Username: Mrsjdaniels Post Number: 171 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 70.141.180.255 |
Royce, did you send this thought into the Mich Chron...cause if not, you betta check this week's paper...they have this as the editorial! (march 17th) | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1540 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 70.236.146.120 |
No, I didn't. I'll definitely have to check out the issue. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1547 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Mrsdaniels, I purchased the Michigan Chronicle for the week of March 15-21 but didn't see anything about what I was writing about. Could you elaborate on what you saw and/or read? Thanks. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 657 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.42.220.37 |
It seems like a positive development to have more black-owned business in Detroit. A true Africatown (i.e., an area magnet for African immigrants) would be neat; but Africa is a pretty huge and diverse place; I'm not sure all the disparate groups coming out of Africa would necessarily congeal into a single ethnic community. I think it would really be a magnet for a particular popluation from a particular country or region. |
