Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Light Rail discussion on 'Spotlight ' - WXYZ Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Naturalsister
Member
Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 510
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.169.65
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 9:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Did anyone see the interview with Megan Owens Executive Director of Transportaion Riders United, a Detroit based advocacy group for transportation access and mobility in Southeastern Michigan) concerning light rail in the region? She contends that a 1/2% sales tax hike would pay for it. She mentioned a line from AA and also a Woodward line.

What if Lansing raised the sales tax to 6 1/2% to support this? Would you cheer, jeer?

Here's a link to her Google search results. I plan to read every entry no matter how long it takes. The search I did for Transportation Riders United also yielded plenty of results.

This (RAIL) is one of the MOST important things we need to get done around here!

http://www.google.com/search?h l=en&q=Megan+Owens+-+Transport ation+Riders+United&btnG=Googl e+Search

later - naturalsister
Top of pageBottom of page

Naturalsister
Member
Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 511
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.169.65
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yeah, Owens also talked about a Novi politician who tried to get the Feds to only consider Michigan rail for the Grand Rapids area - ONLY!

Anyone know who the guy is?

later - naturalsister
Top of pageBottom of page

Detroitduo
Member
Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 534
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 194.138.39.56
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

TRU is a group who has been pushing for true mass transit in our region.

Personally, I am all for a raise in sales tax to do this, but I believe I am in the minority. Even as a regional sales tax increase, the Metro area wouldn't support this, because they don't want it. Everytime I talk to "older" people in the Metro region, they believe that a rail or bus-way or anything mass transit will do nothing but make them pay more taxes for nothing good. If anything, the believe it will bring more crime to their region (because thieves don't have access to cars, right?).

As unpopular as it might be to raise a tax for this, I believe it must be done. If Detroit and the Metro area are to survive as a viable region for future growth, we MUST have a good public transportation system.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1478
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Anyone know who the guy is?



Criag DeRoche, I presume.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 128
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 148.61.248.170
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

6.5% is too hard of math, in my opinion.

I don't like the whole "giving theives mobility" argument. If they're concerned about shoplifting, then they should remember that there are kids everywhere that do it. If it's about murder or armed robbery, then do they think they're going to use mass transit as a get away? If anything it would be easier to catch them, just put an officer at every stop! Mass transit can give everyone mobility, including theives, but I don't think they can use mass transit to their advantage when commiting a crime.
Top of pageBottom of page

Amy_p
Member
Username: Amy_p

Post Number: 641
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.21
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I was watching. Megan Owens really impressed me as a speaker (I am noticing these things lately). Seemed a quality person. I wondered if she was a forumer.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 207
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With respect to Naturalsister's second post, see:

https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/62684/66142.html
Top of pageBottom of page

Naturalsister
Member
Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 513
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.220.232.189
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 11:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Upinottawa. I missed that thread.

later - naturalsister
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 210
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 3:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A look at what Grand Rapids has done with its transit system in past couple of years:

http://www.masstransitmag.com/ publication/article.jsp?pubId= 1&id=90

Of course, the state should not pass legislation granting light rail funding for GR and barring such funding from Metro Detroit. I am sure GR could use the funds, but so could the state's economic engine that is currently relying on beat up highways and a third world transit system.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 804
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 4:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait till IF DeVos gets elected governor. Expect Metro Detroit to get ignored and money to be funneled over to Southeast MI.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 261
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 4:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Wait till IF DeVos gets elected governor. Expect Metro Detroit to get ignored and money to be funneled over to Southeast MI."

Did your compass rose cloud up or were you reading from a mirror, Bob?

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on March 13, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 806
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 4:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, that is the second thread today I said Southeast when I meant Southwest. DeVos will funnel money to his beloved SouthWEST MI.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bvos
Member
Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1245
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.32
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 4:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upinottowa,

I've been to some third world countries that have better mass transit systems than Detroit's. So I'd say Detroit's system is sub-third world.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 213
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 5:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bvos: I'll go with third world as Detroit does have the People Mover (even if it is embarrassing) and has international interurban transit in the form of Windsor's Tunnel Bus. That has to count for something....
Top of pageBottom of page

Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 73
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.60.133.115
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 6:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I saw it. She sounded very optimistic about the Ann Arbor-Detroit Rail. She also said that if there was a .5% raise in sales tax, a mass transit system could be built for all of SE Michigan.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 214
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 6:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How much revenue would a .5% raise in sales tax generate? Under the proposal, I would assume that only the revenue generated in Metro Detroit by the .5% increase would go toward funding transit in Metro Detroit, am I correct?
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 268
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 6:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A "0.5% rise" in the sales tax is an 8.33% increase. Tax-and-spenders always seem to employ alternative or deceptive wordings that appear to make them much less than they actually are.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on March 13, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 368
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 6:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a small price to pay for creating an effective regional mass transit system
Top of pageBottom of page

Hardhat
Member
Username: Hardhat

Post Number: 106
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.209.134.19
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 6:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope someone can enlighten me...
How difficult and expensive could it be to use existing railway tracks from Detroit to Ann Arbor or Detroit to Pontiac, buy a few locomotives and a few passenger cars, find/buy/construct or use existing terminals, and then start up passenger service that makes the trip back and forth every few hours, so it would be convenient for commuters? I'm sure it's not that easy, or else it would have been done, but why?
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 215
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An 8.3% increase to a 6% sales tax is pretty heavy. The average family will spend an extra $100 a year on sales tax. It is probably better to have them keep the $100 and deficit finance the transit system. That way the family gets transit, and the future grandchildren get the bill.

I don't live in Metro Detroit, but I would donate $100 a year for a better mass transit system for the area. Heck, for quality mass transit I'd even consider moving back sooner than later.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2351
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.241.37.140
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 7:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"A "0.5% rise" in the sales tax is an 8.33% increase." Good observation Livernoisyard.

Nix on any sales tax increase, even for mass transit. If anything this should be paid for by an increase in the gasoline and diesel sales tax. Trying to pay for it via sales tax increase will get it hopelessly crushed.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 272
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 8:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hardhat: That's called Commuter Rail. Chicago does just that twice - one to the north and another directed south. It's not rocket science. It also isn't particularly sexy either. It should work just fine if there's sufficient ridership to pay for its capital and operating expenses.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ltorivia485
Member
Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2427
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.51
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We must make sure that if Detroit does Commuter Rail, the stops have to be near where folks live, not out in the boonies.

A great example: the Metra has three stops in Evanston right near where people eat, work, shop, and live. And it's ALWAYS packed.

I can imagine a commuter rail (or monorail) to work in Royal Oak for example.
Top of pageBottom of page

Bibs
Member
Username: Bibs

Post Number: 469
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DetroitDuo - I agree. Drug lords, thieves and back robbers always take the bus. That's how they get away so quickly! I find that most bus riders are good people.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.40.205.183
Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget Amtrak operated commuter rail between Ann Arbor and Detroit until sometime in the 80s and commuter rail is one of the options under study right now, and I believe it's the option that TRU supports along with light rail connecting the New Center terminal to downtown. Things have changed and Ann Arbor has grown. The stops would be in Ann Arbor, Ypsilanti, DTW, Dearborn, and Detroit, near housing, jobs, and schools. The more densely housing can be built near downtown Ann Arbor, near the Huron and I-94 in Ypsi, along Michigan Ave in Dearborn, and around New Center, the more likely such a commuter rail line would be successful. The region needs to work on building dense, walkable, transit-friendly housing developments.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 935
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All for a 1/2 cent sales tax.

Who really gives a rats ass? Now that $1 double cheeseburger at McDonalds costs $1.07 instead of $1.06. Oh. Snap! Watch out. That's gonna break the bank! Even if you spend $100, that suddenly means you paid $6.50 instead of $6.00. Oh, damn! Now we're all really out of cash.

Really, in everyday life, we're talking cents here. Nobody will notice. They did it in Idaho by an entire % to pay for a new county jail. Didn't change much of anything, but it did pay for the jail.
Top of pageBottom of page

E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 518
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's the link to TRU's plan for the Detroit-Ann Arbor transit line: http://detroittransit.org/Ann% 20Arbor%20Detroit.pdf

It's a pretty detailed plan and I believe it's one of the five plans being studied for the Detroit-Ann Arbor line.

For more information on TRU and local transit, check out its web site at www.detroittransit.org
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 217
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like TRU's ideas and they make a decent case for LRT over BRT, i.e. shorter lifespan of buses, high maintenance costs for DDOT and SMART, the fact BRT requires more "glam" to make it attractive to riders.

It really does not make sense to run LRT from Ann Arbor to Detroit. A commuter rail (heavy rail) line makes more sense (to meet demand, be cost effective, etc.).

The streetcar from Dearborn to North Detroit would be an excellent starter line. If Ferndale, Royal Oak, etc. were also interested, then the line would be even more successful.

If Oakland County's executives are anti-LRT (anti-streetcar), then the Dearborn/North Detroit line's terminus could connect with an Oakland BRT line. This has happened in Toronto's "Oakland County" (although York Region plans to move to LRT in the future). See www.vivayork.com for an example of a suburban BRT that connects to Toronto's subway system (at Finch, Downsview and Don Mills).

Also, after the Dearborn/Woodward line was established, the system could be augmented with further BRT lines in the short term.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 219
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 6:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With respect to Hardhat's question, I vaguely remember reading that there are federal regulations prohibiting heavy rail and light rail vehicles from sharing the same track. Does anyone know if this is the case?
Top of pageBottom of page

Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1345
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 6:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, that is incorrect, upinottawa. FRA regulations prohibit freight and passenger (commuter) rail trains from sharing track with light and heavy rail transit vehicles. This is primarily because railroad trains are so much larger and heavier than the transit vehicles, and would create a disproportionate safety concern.

Cleveland's RTA has a segment where the light rail Green and Blue Lines share track with the heavy rail Red Line.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 220
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 6:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Danindc.

I actually meant to say what you said, but apparently I don't have the terminology down as well as I thought!

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.