Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Death of Tiger Stadium? Previous Next
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 517
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It looks like another parking lot is in the city's future...

Is it the final out for Tiger Stadium?

Demolition nears for beloved landmark

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060314/M ETRO/603140404
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Tetsua
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Username: Tetsua

Post Number: 549
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 192.122.250.250
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

...Tear it down




I'd swear Arthur Schwartz was a forumer lol.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1660
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

It looks like another parking lot is in the city's future...




I know that saying is the theme of this website everytime a building gets torn down but this is a positive. How long do you want to pay for upkeep on an old stadium that will never be developed? Tear it down and sell the land to a developer. The upside to this is all the other parking lots in Corktown being held on to by speculators hoping the new Redwings stadium will be built there might actually do something with their surface parking lots. Sometimes it makes more sense to tear things down.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 519
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 9:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't have that much of a problem with most of it being torn down, but I want to see the field preserved. The idea of tearing down most of it to build shops and lofts around the preserved, public field is still the real winner in my mind.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 6975
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.24
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Tear it down and sell the land to a developer.




Hell, tear it down and give the land to the developer with the best proposal.
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 808
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love Tiger Stadium and all, but the time has come to tear it down. I don't want a Hick-Mart going there, but an empty stadium that will sit and rot like MCS just needs to be torn down.
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Pete
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Username: Pete

Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.227.201.19
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The city should fully support the Corktown CDC's Bennett Park Plan, which they have presented to community groups, stakeholders, and the city over the past year. It calls for demolition of the majority of the stadium (except for perhaps 2000-3000 seats), preservation of the playing field, and new development on all of the streets surrounding the stadium. It is the best redevelopment plan for the neighborhood and city, far outweighing any retail shopping center being placed in the neighborhood.

If you want to make a difference, call the city or a City Council member today and urge them to support the Bennett Park plan.
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 178
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 192.217.12.254
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

It is the best redevelopment plan for the neighborhood and city, far outweighing any retail shopping center being placed in the neighborhood.


What's your basis for this? There is no necessary alignment between the interests you talk about.

What is best for existing Corktown "stakeholders" (nice fuzzy term) may be limiting the growth of (competing) businesses, particularly big ones; preventing congestion; and limiting noise and visual pollution.

What is best for the City of Detroit (and the 90%+ of the City that doesn't live in Corktown) is converting a huge piece of economically fallow property into the maximum generator of revenue. This may mean shopping center, big box, factory, or any other number of things that generate tax revenue.

On balance, I'm not aware that there's any pent-up demand for playing baseball on the site of Briggs Stadium. Unless there is some positive economic reason to keep a ball field there, I don't think that should stand in the way of a reasonable development proposal. Parks cost a lot to maintain in presentable condition, and all we need is another expense stream to further strain the city budget (since one way or another, it will inevitably end up maintained, policed and insured by the city).

I know, having lived here for more than two decades, that people are attached to the stadium. I even get nostalgic about it. But in reality, it is really just a shell (or a field) without the fans, the hot dogs, red pelican mustard, crappy peanuts, watered-down beer and people pissing on the lawns of nearby houses. That moved on to Comerica Park, and it's time for Tiger Stadium to move on too.
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Smogboy
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Username: Smogboy

Post Number: 1954
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.47.100.44
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I heard the other night during the Red Wings broadcast that the old Chicago Stadium site is now ready for condominiums. Sigh. I await to see what will happen to Tiger Stadium now. I hope some sense of history will be preserved there.
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Pete
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Username: Pete

Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.227.201.19
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that I glossed over the proposal without offering much behind it, but let me make these points:

- the proposal isn't about attachement to the stadium, it is about an economic redevelopment plan for the neighborhood

- this plan was developed by the CDC, whose purpose it is to represent the interests of the neighborhood. the whole idea behind CDCs is that they represent what is best for their district, and not the 90%+ of the City that doesn't live in the nieghborhood. if the future of any site in the City is determined by considering what is best for the entire population of the City, than what is the point of having CDCs in the first place?

- the best use of the property should be the development that generates the most tax revenue. that would be maximizing the residential units that could be built on the site, as well as a development that enhances the value of the surrounding neighborhood. a retail center with a sea of parking wouldn't diminish the property values of the neighborhood. a factory would do the same. a government campus wouldn't do much at all. residential mixed with retail would also add jobs and mor value to the neighborhood.

- as far as saving the playing surface itself along with a couple of thousand seats, again, a community park adds property value to the neighborhood. using your logic involving the park, the City should simply sell its entire park system for development to maximize revenue and save on maintenance costs, with little regard for the value parks add to their surrounding community.

Those are my thoughts. It's a great plan. It maximizes revenue and property values in every way, as well as preserving a historic site for community use.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 471
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.23
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a signature piece of property. Hopefully, something grand will grace this signature urban space. Amen.
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 115
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.88.89.94
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some sort of preservation of Tiger Stadium would be another thing for out-of-towners to see as well as keep some of Detroit's heritage alive. Had Brooklyn done the same for Ebbet's Field, even some partial existence of that old park would be an icon for the city, a focal point for the locals as well as any visitors. Putting a big box retail or a mall on the TS site is a mistake, plain and simple. For whatever revenue a development would generate, the total destruction of Tiger Stadium would only add to Detroit's increasing poverty.
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Reetz12
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Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 37
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 216.144.213.130
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think we should put a Staples there...but do we put it on Michigan Ave or set back off the street?

Seriously a decision needs to be announced soon, and so be it....a new development or restoration!
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3307
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

xdbrooklyn, jjaba has been to the Ebbetts Field site and it is pathetic. Not even a stinking sign telling of the history of the place. jjaba's baseball archeological explorations include League Park, Cleveland; Braves Field, Boston; Old Comiskey in Chicago; Sportman's Park, St. Louis.
Most of them have some historical signs.

Honeybear, how about giving us a few seats like the Father Clement Kern monument a block South on Trumbull, but open to the public.

jjaba wants to take his girlfriend to the preserved seats and enjoy the nostalgia.

"Went to the game and sat there. I kissed her on the strikes, she kissed me on the balls." Is that asking too much?

jjaba, Briggs Stadium Tiger Memories from the 1940s till the day it closed. jjaba has seen games in 35 MLB parks, and ofcourse, Sec. 24 upper deck, Briggs Stadium was the best.
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Tigersfan9
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Username: Tigersfan9

Post Number: 26
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 64.118.151.178
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know where I can see some renderings/specifics of the "Bennett Park Plan?"
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_sj_
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Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1256
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mistake was not tearing down the eyesore from day one.
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Histeric
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Username: Histeric

Post Number: 658
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.61.194.66
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At the offices of Greater Corktown Development Corporation. And to piggyback on Pete's educated comments about the issue, the plan proposed by the Corktown community (and backed by private development dollars) is not asking the city to own or pay for the field. The concept is the same as the Riverfront, Campus Martius, Central Park, etc. That is, the field would be owned and operated by a private conservancy that would cost the city exactly zero dollars, now or in the future. In a city with 90,000 vacant lots, Huggybears arguement is absurd.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 520
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Histeric: Could you please tell us more about the Bennett Park plan? How feasable is it? What's holding it back?
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Xd_brklyn
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Username: Xd_brklyn

Post Number: 116
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.88.89.94
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba, supposedly somewhere in the Ebbets Field Housing Project there is a home plate marker where the original Ebbet's Field home plate existed. I've looked for it a couple of times but no luck. The few residents I've asked didn't know of its location either. While not on the same level as NYC's error of tearing down Pennsylvania Station, what happened to Ebbet's Field is up there.

At least on the old Forbes Field site they still have some of the outfield wall that Mazeroski cleared to beat those damn Yankees! Was only an infant when that happened but growing up with baseball, it's still exciting to see that clip.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3309
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Brooklyn, jjaba did see the Jackie Robinson School there and he walked Flatbush enough to understand the name "Trolley Dodgers." He walked completely around the public housing complex but never saw any sign of the stadium. It was amazing that nobody thought to remember such an important place in American history.

Histeric does have a solid plan but obviously Detroit civic leaders would rather have another vacant lot. 90,001 vacant lots, Histeric.
How many private parking lots remain in Corktown, just waiting for the Tigers to return?

In so many years of ballgames, jjaba and family never once paid for parking. In the last few years, Father Kern watched over our car. Never a problem with parking there. Long live Histeric and his development warriors.

jjaba, on the Trumbull streetcar to the ballpark.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 44
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Xd_brklyn, I too have seen the Forbes wall.

Also, I saw two guys engaged in some sort of "extracurricular activity" in the bushes right behind what would be the right-center section. Some people...there were kids around...
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Detroiternthemist
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Username: Detroiternthemist

Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 64.118.149.50
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe the FBI Headquarters on Michigan and Trumbull.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3314
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Border Patrol, Detroit Police Dept., dubbed Fort Wayne Redux.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 925
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

they're asking for comments on the channel 4 website...

http://forums.ibsys.com/viewme ssages.cfm?sitekey=det&Forum=5 8&Topic=13474
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 180
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 192.217.12.254
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Histeric, that's great if the idea is to have some private company maintain the park - provided that it is well funded. Are they also providing security?

But the fact that there are 90,000 vacant lots on the city's back doesn't mean it's ok to pile another one on. Taxpayers often get to suck it up when private parties' ideas are insufficiently funded or capitalized.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 760
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.77
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Histeric and Pete -- In my old life I remember seeing the Bennett Park plans and I agree that they were quite nice; but I was wondering, who are the private investors?
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1251
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.31
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 5:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Histeric,

Any plans to take the GCDC plans to the media? I think most Detroiters would like to see a redevelopment plan for TS that is sensitive to the historic nature of the site, but also recognizing the realities of today's economics.

I'd hate for this to get strung up like the former proposals with the city's spin, but I think something needs to be said regarding a viable proposal for the site. Folks need to know that there are viable plans being proposed for Detroit's historic buildings and that the city chooses not to seriously entertain those offers.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1344
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 5:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I'd hate for this to get strung up like the former proposals with the city's spin, but I think something needs to be said regarding a viable proposal for the site. Folks need to know that there are viable plans being proposed for Detroit's historic buildings and that the city chooses not to seriously entertain those offers.




You better hope Skulker isn't reading this thread. He'll be very indignant with you, and then get upset that the National Trust unfairly picks on Detroit.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 6:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The sooner it's torn down the better. It should be developed into storefronts like the rest of that side of Michigan avenue with apartments above. Ever wonder what was there before 1912? It probably wasn't a big stadium surrounded by gravel lots.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1871
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.3.249
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 6:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Xd_Brklyn, good analogy about Ebbet's Field and Pennsylvania Station. Madison Square Gardens replaced Penn Station, and oh what an ugly group of buildings Madison Square Gardens is today.

In fact it was the tragic loss of Penn Station (and the finger pointing later on) that actually saved New York's Grand Central Station from a similar fate 2 decades later.

When Penn Station was torn down in 1963, the New York Times lamented... "We will probably be remembered more for what we have destroyed, than what we have saved". And that statement resonates even more truthfully today.

After the demise of Tiger Stadium, all of America's historic preservationists will know about this humiliating fact about Detroit: Only 3 buildings on the National Trust For Historic Preservations list of the "11 Most Endangered Historic Sites" have ever been destroyed.... 2 of them are in Detroit. (The 3rd was a motel in Reno NV.

P.S. I'm no big fan of Tiger Stadium, but it will get national attention.


(Message edited by Gistok on March 14, 2006)
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Pete
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Username: Pete

Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.227.201.19
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Uh, yeah, before 1912 it was...ta da, a ballfield. Navin Field to be exact. All they did in 1912 was reorfient the field by moving homeplate basically opposite of where it was and building new grandstands. That goes back to 1891, I believe, and before that it was a haymarket.

I wish there was some resource out there that had all of this information easily available without leaving the convenience of your computer. Oh wait, the internet. I'm lazy though, so I'll let someone else look it up to confirm the dates, and the fact that it was a haymarket prior to being used for baseball.

As for the Bennett Park Plan, I did give that a quick web search earlier, but couldn't find a link. I'm sure it's out there. I was introduced to it through a presentation to Preservation Wayne. You can always contact the Corktown Development Corporation directly.
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Easydoesit
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Username: Easydoesit

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.246.122.172
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have 2 options that I personally would like to see happen...

1- like Eastsidedog said, I also think it should be converted into storefronts. Highrise lofts/apartments above.

---- or----

2- to keep it a part of Detroit's history, tear it down and rebuild a sort of big historical baseball museum corresponding with Detroit's architecture, but also has a modern twist. The museum would range from the history of Detroit Tigers (all the way back to like 1912.. or whatever), to significant players in Detroit's history, to people who don't have anything to do with Detroit... like Babe Ruth, etc... Also, keep significant pieces from the old tiger's stadium and possibly frame them so others in the future, and people now, can remember and reminisce on the old stadium.

.... just my 2 cents

(Message edited by easydoesit on March 14, 2006)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9937
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

/quote{That is, the field would be owned and operated by a private conservancy that would cost the city exactly zero dollars, now or in the future.}

Haven't ya heard? This ain't no plantation no more!
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Histeric
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Username: Histeric

Post Number: 659
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.42.168.235
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 4:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

he's just a boy. poor little fellar.
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Allman7
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Username: Allman7

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 139.76.128.72
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok, if you want to look at the good that saving a historic baseball park can do, look at what has happened in my hometown of Birmingham, Alabama with Rickwood Field www.rickwood.com(predates Tiger by two years). It's in the middle of an older neighborhood that most people in my community wouldn't want to visit anymore, but a group of baseball fans and preservationists saved it and worked along with the city to save it and it still used by the city for most of it's high school baseball games and there is still at least one professional game played there each year in a turn back the clock type fashion. It was saved for sentimental reasons but mostly for the historical value that it holds for the city and state. ESPN classic just finished putting on a Negro League throwback game there with Willie Mays and many of the other former Birmingham Black Barons and other Negro League heros.

I know that Tiger is a much larger and much more hotly debated building than this smaller stadium and that the land would be valuable as a storefront etc. but when does enough become enough? I think that saving Tiger Stadium and preserving it as a monument to baseball (not even necessarily Detroit baseball could be a huge boon for the city. How many cities in America besides Boston and New York and Birmingham have stadiums that still stand that they can boast that Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Lou Gherig, Satchel Paige, Mickey Mantle and on and on played in? That list is getting smaller and smaller every year.

Also if we're so concerned about Corktowns rejuvination why is no one concerned (or at least not as concerned about tearing down the MCS? The MCS is one of my favorite Detroit buildings but what historical signifigance (outside of Detroit or even to Detroit itself)does that building hold, and why does it hold such a special place in our hearts whereas a building where many saw their first baseball game or met one of their heroes, or caught their first foul ball etc. seems to inspire such hatred and rhetoric?

I guess my question boils down to this, Why when every other city tears down their baseball stadium to put up a parking lot or a wal-mart etc. should a city that prides itself on it's history and being different follow suit? Why not be the first city to do something worthwhile with this type of an opportunity and create something that could influence the rest of the country to want to visit. After all how many people would visit Cooperstown if the hall of fame wasn't there?
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... I see nothing wrong with tearing down the stadium... but I see no reason that a residential/retail market cannot occupy the site... and be built around the field... Whats wrong with a courtyard surrounded by lofts? Make it historical and put fountains in the middle... this could be pretty neat...
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2194
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Allman7, yer almost preaching to the choir (me included) but it'll never happen, once the Tigers left the stadium it instantly became a white elephant in it's form as a ballpark. Although Detroit is fulla white elephants that have lingered on for decades without getting torn down and none imo are more historic than Tiger Stadium, in this case the negative of keeping it in it's present form outweighs its historic potential.

Btw, to ME it isn't the field that is historic or somehow sacred. It is the stands. It represents how generation after generation of Detroiters, immigrants from all over came and sat and invented community, a society and a culture admist a stunningly exapanding and then dramaticly contracting city, a booming and then a busting city, a swaggering and then a staggering city.

Once the Tigers stopped playing there, the magic left ... the link was broken ... and I say this sadly, tear that schit down and throw up some mixed use shopping residential which compliments the surrounding communities and grows tax base on what is now fallow land. If they can keep an inner courtyard with the field intact that nice and all but it doesn't do it justice and shouldn't have happend this way but anyway ...

Yay Detroit!
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with rustic. It never should've happened this way in the first place. Tiger Stadium has been on death row ever since Comerica Park was built. It's too bad, but Mr. Ilitch usually gets his way and all us taxpayers get to pay for it (I think they should've renovated Tiger Stadium pesonally and built a structure to eliminate the need for all the crappy gravel lots). It should have been torn down the day Comerica Park was finished instead of wasting $2.5 taxpayer dollars to maintain it for nothing. Sorry to be harsh but it's true. That 2.5 million could've been used for something. What a waste.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please no courtyards. Please no elmwood park style development. It's desolate.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 1:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And please no fountains. They'll be broken in a couple years.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1875
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.118
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 3:23 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yessirree Eastsidedog, the fountain will just accidentally get a bucket dropped into the plumbing and will never work properly... AKA the Dodge Fountain. (Not sure if that is an urban legend or the truth!)
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not that familiar with the Dodge Fountain (was that the one that was in Palmer Park?) but unless it's privately maintained it will likely break down and not be repaired. I think the drinking fountains in Lafayette Park still don't work. And those are just simple drinking fountains that the city can't maintain.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3316
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 5:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Portland, Oregon has Benson Bubblers that run perfectly all of the time. Simon Benson put them on street corners so workers could drink water instead of booze in corner tavens. They still work after 100 years. Benson owned saw mills and huge stands of Oregon timberlands.

You want fountains, ask Kansas City how they maintain them. The city is loaded with fountains.

jjaba
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Michigansheik
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Username: Michigansheik

Post Number: 107
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 131.156.153.168
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 5:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the fountain at grand circus park works, it just doesnt drain! would you really drink from the fountains in lafayette park if they worked?
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1878
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.118
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Dodge Fountain is the that modern metal "donut" in the middle of Hart Plaza on the waterfront. It has never worked as intended.
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Shark
Member
Username: Shark

Post Number: 198
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 68.76.53.126
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 7:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Love what Arsenal is doing to their old stadium:

http://www.thestadium-highbury .com/stadium_main.htm

And it is as old as Navin Field. I wish something like this would happen in Detroit.
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Jiminnm
Member
Username: Jiminnm

Post Number: 337
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.35.85.184
Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 8:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a very brief history of baseball at Michigan and Trumbull (thanks to Richard Bak's A Place for Summer):

1896 - 1st season pro baseball played at the corner, in Bennett Park.

George Vanderbeck, then owner of the Tigers, acquired the property which had been a market, haymarket and planing/saw mill in 1895 and began construction. There were 28 giant elm and oak trees on the site, some up to 8" in circumference and up to 140 years old at the time. All were cut down but three, which stayed in deep center field for a few years (no risk of hitting a dead ball that far). The haymarket site had been paved with cobblestones, which were left in place and several inches of soil placed on them. That resulted in boggy type conditions when it rained and the stones kept popping to the surface - which sometimes made it hell to play the outfield. Home plate was where we know the right field corner to be. Initially, there were 5,000 seats. The stadium had a 12' high wood fence around much of the outfield. Some Sunday games were played in Mt. Clemens and River Rouge to avoid blue laws.

James Burns bought the club in 1899. He fixed the outfield and added seating. Burns had the Tigers play their Sunday games at Burns Park, in Springwells Township, but the Tigers didn't play there after 1902. Attendance at Bennett Park peaked at 490,000 in 1909.

1912 - Navin Field constructed on Bennett Field site.

Frank Navin acquired the Tigers after owning them in partnership with Bill Yawkey. He again increased the size of Bennett. He was still not happy with the park, so acquired nearby properties and began a new park.

Navin Field was a concrete and steel stadium, while Bennett Park had been wood. It had a single tier that nearly surrounded the field, and was roughly twice as large as Bennett. Prior to the 1923 season, a second tier was added to the grandstands and a rooftop press box was added. Attendance hit a million in 1924, and again in 1935, 1937 and 1940.

Walter O. Briggs acquired the Tigers in 1938, and the Stadium was called Briggs Stadium from 1938 to 1960. Prior to the 1938 season, he added a second deck that wrapped around the corners into the outfield. A second tier of bleachers was added later. The stadium name was changed to Tiger Stadium on Jan. 1, 1961. John Fetzer was a 1/3 owner of the team from 1956, and he became sole owner in Nov., 1961.

The Detroit Lions shared the stadium from 1938-1974.

My fingers are now too tired to continue right now.
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Bjl7997
Member
Username: Bjl7997

Post Number: 95
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 208.39.169.123
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 12:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i thought they were going to move the Red Wings there on Trumbull and Michigan in the near future and use Joe Louis as part of the Cobo Expansion. Also build a skywalker that connects from there to Cobo
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Hamtramck_steve
Member
Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2800
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 136.181.195.65
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 12:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That would be one long skywalker, from Cobo to Michigan & Trumbull.

Although maybe we could use that to boost tourism. Get that listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the longest skywalker, and Star Wars fans would flock from all over.
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.7
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

About the Dodge Fountain, I've always referred to it as "the fountain in Hart Plaza." Regarding fountains and open space in general, Detroit really doesn't need anymore. Get all the vacant lots built up first. Then start thinking about parks and such IMHO.

It would be cool if they did an Elliingtonesque project on that site. Add a little variety.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3317
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 5:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Jiminnm for the great history.
Many of us on The Forum hold great memories of Briggs Stadium. jjaba attended Cass Tech. and could walk over in the afternoon, skipping a few classes. Bleacher seats were 50 cents and we had a great time. Before high school, jjaba even took streetcars there. If we drove, we never ever paid for parking, the neighborhood was safe enough.

After road trips, neighbors would await the team buses rolling back to the stadium on Elizabeth Street. 1935, 1945, 1968, and 1984, all hell broke loose when the Tigers won the World Series.

When the team used the train for games, the neighborhood would greet the team like they were royalty. Yes, Corktown royalty.

The Leland was the main hotel for visiting teams and there were always scores of excited kids in the lobby seeking autographs. Imagine Babe Ruth buying a brand new piano in celebration of a Yankee Pennant and playing all night in the lobby.

jjaba, Tigers Memories. Those were the days my friends, we thought they'd never end... we'd sing and dance forever and a day...
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Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 444
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 68.2.191.57
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 5:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jjaba, that's the second time you've planted that song in my head! Cut it out! :-)

http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/ lyrics/thosewere.htm

Reminds me of Moscow Nights somehow.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3321
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 7:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jimaz, thanks for the wonderful lyrics.

Top ten places to sing "Those Were the Days."

10. the subway.
9. Driving home from work.
8. In the elevator after a great sale of screws to Ford.
7. Sipping ginger ale after sex.
6. Intermission at a Mary Hopkins Concert.
5. At United Center when Michael is introduced.
4. The next time you ride in a DC3.
3. Smoke and piss break at Gander, New Foundland.
2. Corner of Haight and Ashbury, San Francisco.
1. On Washington Blvd. looking at Book-Cadillac.

jjaba.
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Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 374
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 8:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My efforts at canvassing for the Detroit Times resulted in "stubs". I could swap, I think, three "stubs" for a general admission ticket to a Tigers' game. That's all I ever used them for.
Roy Cullenbine. Eddie Lake. George Vico. Virgil Trucks. Jerry Priddy. Hank Greenberg. Me 'n Jjaba saw 'em all.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3326
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Standing on the Corner watching all the girls go by,
Standing on the corner givin' all the girls the eye...

From Nathan Detroit...

jjaba.
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Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 375
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 8:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now he's got ME humming it..........sheesh....
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Jiminnm
Member
Username: Jiminnm

Post Number: 338
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.35.85.184
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jjaba, I too am a Technician (class of 1965). I missed a few classes by strolling down Vernor to the old park. In those days of weekday afternoon games drawing 3-4,000, you could buy a cheap seat and move down to the boxes in the 4th or 5th inning (the ushers usually didn't send you back). There were very few plays in sports that were as pretty as Al Kaline throwing a bullet to third from the right field corner and getting the runner trying to move from first to third on a hit to right field.

As for girls, Commerce High was torn down before my senior year (for the freeway) and I got to share that year with the girls from Commerce who moved over to Cass. Ah, now those were the days.
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Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1542
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 70.236.146.120
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd have to agree with Pete and Allman7 on their assessments on how the Tiger Stadium site should be developed. The Bennett Park plan sounds like something that would meet the needs of the neighborhood and satisfy Tiger Stadium fans.

It would also attract a lot of tourists where vendors could sell memoriabilia of Tiger Stadium(not the Tigers) and maybe even sell Ballpark hot dogs. Although the stadium would be gone, the opportunity to walk or play a ballgame on the field that Cobb, Greenberg, Kaline, Horton, and Mark "The Bird" Fidrytch played on would be a priceless opportunity.

I have often suggested on this forum the idea that a portion of Tiger Stadium, the Trumbull side, along with the field could be preserved for a Detroit Sports Hall of Fame/Museum. A hotel would be built and attached to the museum. Softball leagues and and leagues for tourists would be created for players to play on the ballfield. Softball players from all over the country would come to play on the field that Cobb built.

Now, the idea of putting a big box retail center on the Tiger Stadium site would be a waste to me. The only reason anybody suggests this is because there would be room for parking. My question to those who like this idea is, "Why put such a sterile, cookie-cutter, suburban-type structure on such an historic site when you can build this type of structure almost anywhere among Detroit's 90,000 vacant lots?" The Bennett Park plan or my Detroit Sports Hall of Fame/Museum idea would be more valuable in the long run than a Wal-Mart.

I have attented far fewer Tigers games at Tiger Stadium than folks like Jjaba, but I have fond memories of the times that I spent there. I never got the chance to run the bases at Tiger Stadium. I was a little to old for that, but I still would love to step on that field and share the afternoon sun with the ghosts of Tigers greats. I'd bet a lot of other folks would like to do the same thing.
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Bjl7997
Member
Username: Bjl7997

Post Number: 96
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 208.39.169.124
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 3:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i meant ....building a skywalker that connects fron Joe Louis Arena to Cobo, Hamtramck_steve
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Hamtramck_steve
Member
Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2811
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.209.164.236
Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 4:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, well maybe enough Star Wars fans will still come to our admittedly smaller skywalker.
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Kathleen
Member
Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1219
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 6:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Former Tiger executive Bill Hasse's point of view:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060321/O PINION01/603210308/1008
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 3823
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 6:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is truly the end of Tiger Stadium. Only to be replaced by a some upcomming Sprawl-Mart. Or big gravel lot.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3411
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 192.220.139.23
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 6:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two points to Bill Haase.

First, Tiger Stadium is a hell of a lot more than a natural resource, if it is that at all. It is a cultural resource mostly. The building is hardly very natural. Natural is geysers in Yellowstone.

Secondly, Toledo is but 60 miles away. You put AAA ball in Detroit, you'll get a domino affect down the line. Why diss on Toledo with their new downtown ballpark. After a call-up is made, a Toledo Mudhen can be in Detroit in an hr. on the I-75, faster by helicopter. That's not so far away. Hey, one bump to them and they'll affiliate with the dreaded Cleveland Indians.

Lastly, it is nice to see the City of New york supporting 4 pro baseball teams. jjaba has enjoyed the new Brooklyn Cyclones Park on Coney Island, adjacent to Nathan's Original.

jjaba, baseball fan.
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Nedab3
Member
Username: Nedab3

Post Number: 81
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 216.96.11.195
Posted on Tuesday, March 21, 2006 - 10:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray you forgot Johnny Lipon(sp) Vic Wertz, Johnny Groth, Jimmy Outlaw, Pat Mullin others i can't remember right now just finished my last Goebel beer.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3421
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 2:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And them too. Ray1936 and jjaba saw 'em all.
Ray1936, tell the folks about "stubs."

jjaba.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1054
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 8:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"stubs"---you mean Frank ( Stubby) Overmire., Tiger pitcher during the 40's? I saw him a few times. I thought he was a better hitter than he was a pitcher. But a great nickname, nevertheless.
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Motownmark04
Member
Username: Motownmark04

Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 35.11.14.150
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 12:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found a site that has links to the Navin Field plan:

http://www.wowappeal.com/michi gan/
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Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1037
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.101
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 4:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Also if we're so concerned about Corktowns rejuvination why is no one concerned (or at least not as concerned) about tearing down the MCS?



Because the MCS would cost a LOT more to tear down than Tiger Stadium.
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Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1496
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.250.205.35
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 5:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, and also the MCS is not sitting smack dab in the middle of everything with acres of empty "parking lots" around it, the owners of which are waiting to hear the fate of TS before they do anything with their land.
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 5:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I once read an article that said tearing down the MCS would cost hundreds of millions -- so much money that it was more feasible to leave it standing. The article said that it is built so well it would easily stand for hundreds of years as is. Sorry to go OT.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3430
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 192.220.139.10
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 7:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedog, re-print your comments on the MCS thread at the top of the menu today.
Threasdjacking is a major crime but jjaba will not prosecute, since we're glad to have your opinion.

jjaba, Westsider.
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Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 391
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 7:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Threadjacking is not a crime; it is a civil offense. Unless the writer is not civil. Then it is just an offense.

That said, tear that schitt down.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3437
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 1:59 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray1936 is a contrarian to his legacy.
Tear down Briggs Stadium, tear jjaba's heart out.

jjaba on the NW side.
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Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1002
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 2:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

jjaba attended Cass Tech. and could walk over in the afternoon, skipping a few classes.




I can't believe that they skipped school way back in the day. My shop teacher Alexander Nemoff said that when he went to Cass, he couldn't afford to cut class. maybe it was just a scare tactic to assure our attendance in his class.



That was and still is the tradition for some of Cass Tech students. I did the same thing when I was at Cass.

broken_main
Proudly Cass tech 1983

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