Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Could the Kalamazoo plan work in Detroit Previous Next
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1282
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.236.187.173
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Economic and school revitalization through guaranteed college scholarships. Do you think it could work in Detroit or be at least a major piece of the puzzle?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg /06069/668424.stm
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3342
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, it could most definitely be a major piece of the puzzle. What it does is make public schools more competitive in a diversified school market, and it helps retain some families. The problem, here, is finding enough private employers to make the whole thing worthwhile. There would need to be a huge, region-wide collaborative effort amongst the private sector to make this work.

I commend the Kalamzoo Metro private sector. The Kalamazoo Promise is one of a kind, and incredibly progressive, especially in a state where progressive hasn't been used often in the last few decades.

(Message edited by lmichigan on March 16, 2006)
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2453
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.51
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It will work if Detroit had

a) housing market (tear down the dipilated structures, and build more sturdier middle-class homes)
b) job market (white-collar jobs please)
c) bulk-trash service (people won't live here if we do not provide basic services)
d) reduce crime (kick out Pookie and Tyrone and Sugardaddy while you're at it too)
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2454
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.51
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

e) remove all forms of corruption (Kilpatrick administration, Ministers)
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 2931
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.236.161.221
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ltorivia485
re: e)

Since Cadillac the only way anything that gets done is by some form of corruption.

I wonder if we lead the Country in the number of Mayors jailed by their actions while in office. Hell, the venerable John C. Lodge played that game,
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3344
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess the question is whether this could work in a big city, period. Kalamazoo is not exactly the nicest place, itself. But, it's a much smaller city, so this seems like it would be easier to implement in a smaller environment.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1487
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.212.34.231
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, I think it would be a great thing, that could do a lot for the city.

Re: Ltorivia:

a) When it comes to our housing market for single family homes, supply is not the problem. It is taxes(and insurance), services, and perception.
b) With regard to the white collar job market, all of SE Michigan is the same white collar job market. Don't go pinning that on the city.
c) Most cities don't have bulk-trash service, especially regular bulk pickup.
d) reduce crime - I agree with you here.

I would add transit and the urban experience it helps create.

But it will be interesting to see what happens over time in Kzoo. I went to a magnet school run by KPS(http://www2.kamsconline.com/), and the citizens of the area seem to have always done a good job of supporting education.

It would be interesting to see how much money it would take to fund a similar venture in Detroit.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3345
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think some are looking at this from the wrong angle. This seems to help i{retain} familes moreso than to attract families. I read an article in my local paper a few weeks back about this, and they were interviewing city residents, many of whom were thinking of leaving Kazoo for the suburbs or beyond. Most said that this was a HUGE reason that they'd be staying in the city, and for many, the only reason.
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Wmuchris
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Username: Wmuchris

Post Number: 290
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.51.137.10
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMichigan has a good point, but it is not completely correct.

I teach at a Kalamazoo school and the students have been registering in droves. We have picked up nearly 10 students in my middle school in the past three months alone. It may not sound like a lot of students, but it represents nearly a two-percent increase in a very short time. There are plans in the works for possibly building two new middle schools, to accomidate the increase in student population.

Tonight we had parent-teacher confrences, and I met four new families that had just relocated from outlying cities to be a part of the promise. Many of the families coming back to Kalamazoo have been the ones that were first to leave once the big white-collar businesses (pharmacuticals) closed down.

I've met familes from Galesburg, Portage and Vicksburg that have relocated here, and they are all happy to have done so.

LMichigan is right when he talks about the promise keeping residents in Kalamazoo, however, it is less about keeping the residents we allready have (there are many middle-class and upper middle class people left in Kzoo), but more about convincing those students to attend KPS.

Many of the wealthiest students have fled KPS (but not the city) to join districts like Portage, through the school of choice program, or private schools if they can afford it. This is another big piece of the puzzle, bringing people who allready live in Kalamazoo back to KPS. With more students, Kalamazoo will recieve a greater share of Federal and State funding, an undeniable plus.

KPS is also quite active in persuing federal grants and other forms of funding to increase per-student spending and create unique programs. The magnet programs mentioned above a prime examples of old-fashioned leg work done by KPS to find Federal grants to support the Arts, Sciences and Mathmatics in Kalamazoo Schools. The students are improving, but there is still a long way to go.

When it comes to population, Kalamazoo has seen quite a large number of it's citizens leaving over the past decade or so. But not nearly on the same scale as Detroit. Here in Kzoo there really aren't many places to go. People have strong Regional ties, with families up and down the West Coast. Things in Battle Creek, South Haven or Muskegon aren't any better than here (with the one shining spot being Grand Rapids these days).

The Kalamazoo Promise was the product of some very large private, anonymous (sp) donations. It would take a HUGE...HUGE donation for Detroit to match what Kalamazoo currently has in the KZOO promise, and even still it would be difficult to convince many families to move back into Detroit neighborhoods.

Detroit needs to address its crime, corruption and blight issues before people will consider moving back into the city. Even free college won't save Detroit's neighborhoods.

(Message edited by wmuchris on March 16, 2006)
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2455
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.51
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmeyers, youre not understanding me. Almost 75% of the population within Detroit makes less than $50,000 as their total income. I think that is terrible. I guess what I'm saying is: we need more Rosedale Parks, Indian Villages, East Outer Drive type homes in Detroit. We have too many wooden and deteriorating "Made-in-1920" homes in Detroit.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2424
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Most cities don't have bulk-trash service, especially regular bulk pickup."

Jsmyers, are you refering to other major cities across the US because that certainly is not true for virtually every other community in this region.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Although there are many, many, many more students in Detroit than Kalamazoo, it seems like something Kresge Foundation or Hudson Webber Foundation could pull off (joint?).
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 21
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 1:01 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, kudos to Wmuchris for his dedication to Kalamazoo and its future.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 523
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 6:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From what I'm picking up from the story is it would cost $3.5 million to send 500 students to college this year. That comes to an average of $7,000 of tuition per student.

My question is how many students graduate from DPS right now? The only thing I got from a google search is that the school district graduation rate is 48 percent.

Also, I don't buy the wooden and deteriorating "Made-in-1920" homes line. First off, any other new homes will be made mainly with wood. Second many, many other cities across the state and the nation have large healthy, stocks of those homes that rise in value. You get what you put into a home. If you buy a new home, it'll go to crap just as quickly as a used one if the owner doesn't maintain it. The problem isn't with the housing stock but how the owners take care of it. But I agree with the crime sentiment. That's the key. Tackle the crime problem and so many other things should start to fall in line.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1488
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.212.34.231
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 7:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Re: homes: There certainly are a lot of people with lower incomes. Many of them are living in relatively large, brick homes, that they cannot always afford to maintain. If you ask somebody from one of the neighborhoods you mention who is trying to sell their house, you'd find that they don't think they need more supply to compete with their homes. I do agree that more people would locate in the city if they could buy a new home, but that has nothing to do with sturdiness or class.

Re: bulk trash: The suburb that I work in is rapidly growing and sizable. The municipality doesn't provide any garbage service, much less bulk pickup. I used to live in Ann Arbor, the country club of munincipal services, it discountinued all bulk pickup last July. Before that the service was for a fee (once a month I believe).

http://www.ci.ann-arbor.mi.us/ PublicServices/FieldOperations /SolidWaste/index.html

Regardless of the perception by many Detroiters that they deserve to have the city pick up after them, bulk trash pickup is a dying service, and many rapidly growing communities never even come close to providing it.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1489
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.212.34.231
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 7:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I was in HS at KAMSC, it was interesting to go to school with kids from all of the area high schools, private included. It always seemed to me that dispite the preception that they were better, many of the outlying area's schools weren't able to offer much. It always seemed to me that the KPS and Portage schools had the most going for them.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3349
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 8:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KPS does have the added benefit of being one of the more decent urban school districts in the state, better in fact that Grand Rapids Public relatively nearby, which I here is pretty bad.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2457
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.51
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 9:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmeyers, you may want to browse on Detroit Uncovered. The sight of trash, furniture, and other type of filth is appalling. Soon, this city will be a public health crisis with roaches, rats, and other vermin. Most people in Detroit cannot afford (or don't know how) to transport all their garbage to the area dumpyards.

http://www.detroituncovered.co m

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