  Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2912 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.230.14.200 |
http://www.mecawi.org/#Demo_Ir aq_War You decide if it is important to you. | ||
Aiw Member Username: Aiw Post Number: 5388 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.48.208.18 |
Yes, Livonia deserves whatever they get! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 385 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
We will be having a demonstration for the war on this weekend as well. Everyone that is in favor of the war, the killing of terrorists that threaten us and the success of our troups is being asked to pray for them at the church of their choice this weekend. You decide if it is impoortant to you! | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 101 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Great. I don't think that a church is the place for people that are in favor of the war. By the way, how do measure success of our troops, by how many terrorists they kill? I for one pray for their safety and leave it at that. A real soldier would rather not kill anyone. A person like you has probably never been in that situation. Another armchair quarterback. I could be wrong and you actually served in the military, but I'd be willing to put some money on it that you have not. | ||
Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 751 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 69.209.147.16 |
I'm with you Irish. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
You really believe that is who is being killed over there? I don't. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 724 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Religious fundamentalists cannot be saved. | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 288 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.58.36.2 |
I'll be at the demonstration. Can't imagine that people actually believe we should pray for the deaths of more people. Sickening | ||
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys Post Number: 313 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.209.180.204 |
Praying for the deaths of another in a place of worship? Which side are you on Irish? | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 207 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.218.7.238 |
quote: "Religious fundamentalists cannot be saved." especially when Iraq had no WMD, no involvement with 9/11, no involvement with Al Qaeda, and no nuclear weapons program. This whole situation is just sad and pathetic. A war started on lies and deception. And people support Bush, wow. Why the hell are we in Iraq in the first place. Now we are obligated to stay there because of all the chaos we created and the impending civil war we will have created. | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 7 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
It is never ceases to amaze me that our fearless leader has so convinced some Americans that Iraq and Suddam had anything to do with the Muslim terrorist who attacked us in 2001. It just doesn't make any sense. Never has, never will. I for one will never demostrate for any war. I will, however, continue to pray that this one will stop and the American soldiers can come home, where they belong. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 386 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Philbert, "We" are not in Iraq. You and I are comfortably in Detroit. Volunteer soldiers that are fighting for this country are in Iraq risking there lives so that idiots can sit out on a street corner in Dearborn and berate their activities with buzz words like "No WMDs" or "Bush lied and I cried". Ho hum...enjoy your afternoon while the rest of us pray for the success of our troops in eliminating the terrorists and setting up democracy in the mideast. Contrary to the earlier posting, the death of a terrorist does not equate to the death of a human life..it equates to the saving of a human life(s). Don't forget your guitars. | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 24 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Both sides are just as guilty of being an "armchair quarterback". Yes, most of us have never been in a combat situation. However, I would also assume most of us have very little inside knowledge of what the true threats and risks are in Iraq and the Middle East. I'm not a big fan of the president or the war itself, but I just have to laugh at the whine-fest that is NPR and the anti-war folks lately. I tried to listen to some woman on WDET interview a man who obviously ranked very high in the military yesterday, and her questions were so ridiculously biased I couldn't believe she was serious. If I were him, I would have just said "Yes, Bush ordered that we slaughter puppies because that's just the sort of man he is." She would have been giddy. Ahh, the comedy of our religion is more right than your religion. | ||
Miss_cleo Member Username: Miss_cleo Post Number: 113 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 69.47.85.139 |
ya know what? I am tired of the US trying to be saviors of the world. How about we take care of people here at home in the US for a change? How about we let other countries run themselves, who are we to force our ways of government on them? How about we put the people living in the USA FIRST for a change? | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 102 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Personally, I am no armchair quarterback. I have been in a combat situation before, and that is why I pray for the safety of our troops, not for their success at killing/eliminating anyone. I have seen friends die by freindly fire, unfriendly fire, and accidents. I also happened to be working in Wall Street for a year and was able to witness the towers coming down with my own eyes. I'm not even getting into the "should we be there" argument. Any person with a brain can understand the paradigm of just cause. Sheep can choose to ignore it. If you think praying for the death/elimination of ANYONE should be a part of religion and prayed for, you need a lot of help. Period. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 387 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Well you certainly bring credibility to your remarks Islandman and I respect that. | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 103 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Thanks Irish. I'm assuming you're Catholic (or is it Protestant); so am I. I just want as many of those guys to come as possible. That's what I pray for. (Message edited by Islandman on March 16, 2006) (Message edited by Islandman on March 16, 2006) (Message edited by Islandman on March 16, 2006) | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 388 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Catholic. We are praying for the same thing there Islandman. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1787 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.148.31 |
I'm an agnostic but I pray that those who pray for more deaths will realize that prayer is futile, (but oddly, I think that their prayers will be answered.) If you want to speed up victory, I've proposed a solution before. Get your chickenhawk asses to Baghdad. Strap on a backpack filled with explosives When the terrorists try to kidnap you, push the button. Presto! Kapow! Splatter! Suicide Bombers for Bush. The best way for Bush Supporters to "support our troops". | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 727 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Sadam Hussein was a murdering dictator, who deserved to be deposed. Why not depose all of the other murdering dictators, you ask? Because Sadam Hussein threatened the stability of the United States by disrupting the Arab world and it's oil market. Iran is also a threat to our stability, but we can't take on everyone at once, so we went with the easier of the two, in the hopes that it would spook Iran into playing nicer. They have shown that is not in their nature. Europe is with us against Iran. Military action is not imminent, but some action must be taken to reign in the Iranian fundamentalists. | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 208 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.218.7.238 |
^execuse number 786 so Irish_mafia then please tell us where Iraq's WMD are, the links to 9/11, the links to Al Qaeda, and his nuclear weapons program is. | ||
Bratt Member Username: Bratt Post Number: 401 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 12.172.207.3 |
I tell you....some people are just hypocrites. On one hand it's the anti-abortion people screaming don't kill...then it's okay to kill for the war on terror (too bad if innocents get in the way)...I don't care which way you look at the Bible says thou shall not kill. It does not say, "Thou shall not kill except for George Bush". God places judgement on people, not us. Who are we to decide who to kill? I tell you, hell is going to be full of Americans... | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 26 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.75.220.9 |
Why are we even wasting our time beating this tired argument further into the ground? | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 8 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
Because, unlike so many others in this world, we can Wazoo!!!!! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 389 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
"so Irish_mafia then please tell us where Iraq's WMD are, the links to 9/11, the links to Al Qaeda, and his nuclear weapons program is." WMDs are in Syria The links to 911 include the terrorist training camps in Iraq and our post 911 promise to take down those nations that are against us. Saddam dared us and we took him out. The links to Al Queda include ZarKowii(spelling) and all the rest of his cronies who already had set up shop in Iraq prior to the war and have spent their time and efforts chopping off peoples heads over there instead of blowing up the RenCen...(the former being preferable to the later for some of us wacky conservatives) His first nuclear weapons program was conveniently blown up by our friends the Israelies. His second program was still in the planning stages while he retooled. Of course ... it could all be a conspiracy...yeah thats it ... Bush made it all up to free the Iraqi's (oops I mean to impose democracy on them). and all the Democrats that voted for the war were'nt bright enough (ooops I mean they were fooled) to understand that the WMD evidence that had been touted since Clinton was in office was actually a roouse because... who coulda known that Bill Clinton was actually George Bush's other son? Does that clarify it for you Philbert? Have a nice time at the rally... don't forget your love beads. | ||
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys Post Number: 315 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.209.141.248 |
Hmmm...aren't Catholics supposed to be against this war? And war in general for that matter? | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2364 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.120 |
"Why are we even wasting our time beating this tired argument further into the ground?" Maybe you are wasting your, but I am not wasting mine. Bury you head in the sand if you have a problem with it; that's what the country did when they were warned in 2002. Detroit, you were warned in October 2002 about the lies and impending disaster of Iraq and again in March 2003 after the "Mission Accomplished" chickenhawks launched this disaster. Time to remind Detroit and America again. Maybe the public will listen this time and not fall for war against Iran. It is a patriotic duty to warn again.   | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 390 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Many are | ||
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys Post Number: 316 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.209.141.248 |
So you're a Catholic who supports the war? Wow, don't you listen to your embodied shepherd!? Pope Benedict(esp. Pope John Paul) probably do not deem you Catholic enough for everlasting life. Your bad. | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2365 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.120 |
Irish Mafia,Mr. Joshua, and others of similar sentiments, feel free to join your friend in expressing yourself if you feel so strongly for war.  We have a great country where all can express their opinions. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 391 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Gosh, Last time we were chatting we got along just fine Blessyouboys. I appreciate your interest in my soul though. How's that eternal damnation thing going for you? | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 392 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
I do have to say that your party looks like more fun Lowell. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1269 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Wow this thread has taken quite a turn. Irish_Mafia, on your initial post, I would have to disagree. While I support the premise of the war on terror (it is a brutal neccesity in this day of new threats), my church (Catholic as it is for you too I gather) is where I go to pray for the success and safety of our troops, but, importantly, not to confide in God re: the fact that this war is a good thing and that the killing involved is desirable. This war is neccesary in many ways (the liberals here will slaughter me for saying that), but when we go to church we ought to be praying for a quick resolution to it, and for our enemies to see the error in their ways, and for God to intervene on behalf of our soldiers and the innocent people overseas caught in the middle of this worldly mess. Irish_mafia, judging from your name, and with the fact that a great Irish holiday is upon us, I think we ought to reflect on how hellish war and ongoing terrorist bloodshed truly is, from an Irish standpoint. This thread has been muddled in generalities and misunderstandings, and I don't like it. Everyone, including supporters of this war, needs to do some soul searching. It's just a shame that those who protest it are so viciously anti-Bush, often anti-American, and have broad sweeping agendas that usually encompass every leftist cause imaginable. Most of them you can't even sit down and have a serious discussion because they are so ideologically blinded, and this sort of division is an ill of our political climate. If this division weren't so strong, more conservatives like myself would be willing to admit that this war may have seemed neccesary by all indications, but has turned into something that has lingered too long. From a world politics standpoint the results have been okay--we haven't been attacked again, we are fighting the terrorists over there, Iraq has a new government, and in the end it may be a truly free state. But, a lot of death of the innocent has been incurred by it. Now as for the liberals, they ought to acknowledge that it is not all Bush's fault, that the geopolitical rationale for this war is actually a sound one (fight over there, not here) and that this is not a holy war brought on by the bloodthirsty right. If only we could just be more objective and search for common ground. | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 61 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 208.50.91.234 |
Well put Mackinaw!!! I am with you, I am a supporter of the war on terror, but feel tha the war in Iraq fell off the tracks somewhere. I am all for spreading democracy, but don't thinkit should be done at the tip of a spear. I also have an issue with consistency. We are so vehement about setting up a democracy in Iraq, yet our biggest trading partner is a communist country that clearly has human rights issues. I think that the main problem that most people like me have with Bish concerning the war, is that he is so unwilling to admit amistake, and that he makes out anyone who does not wish to be fighting as "not patriotic" and that you might as well be "supporting the enemy." I love America, and i love th fact that everyone gets a chance to state thier opinion, even if I disagree with it. I would adamantly fight for the right of a NRA rally as much as I would fight for the right of a Anti-war group to hav ea march. I think that slinging around sterotypes "don't forget your love beads" while humorous, does not belong on a forum like this one. Can we please respect each other as Americans??? | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 393 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Mackinaw, Appreciate your thoughtful approach to this thing. But I don't believe that it will fly for most of our counterparts on this site. You and I could sit down and discuss rationally the reasons that we think that the war has taken a turn toward the positive or the negative and what approaches might be advocated moving forward. That would happen because we would be disagreeing on individual points on the same side of a philosophical chasm. Your comment: "that the liberals, they ought to acknowledge that it is not all Bush's fault,..." pretty much ends the ability for thoughtful debate with those on the other side of that chasm...can't happen ..won't happen...if you think that the President of the United States is Hitler, then it is all his fault. So we end up with my comments, perhaps in another venue, thought to be too extreme (prayer for the death of terrorists and all)...but in this climate of the wacked out comments that we have seen from the other side...they really are but a small counterbalance. Corned Beef for all! | ||
Lowell Board Administrator Username: Lowell Post Number: 2368 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.167.58.120 |
Why do my eyes glaze over when I stumble across a timeless smears like that? Time to dig out another oh too similar timeless smear. "...the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country."- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg Trials. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 394 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
When then there you have it...Bush is Hitler...let's break for lunch | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1789 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.148.193 |
Irish Mafia sounds more like a follower of Ian Paisley to me. He describes Baghdad as if it were Prague, but I don't see any Vaclav Havels speaking from the balconies over there. And I don't see any chickenhawks writing their poetry from Baghdad cafes I do see a lot of stern bearded men who are staunch allies of Iran, which seems to be the next distraction. His shrill parroting of propanda sounds oddly like the dimwits who assured everyone, 40 or so years ago, that Martin Luther King Jr. was a communist. Oh, The WMDs have been moved to Syria now! By the Russians? Or by the Keebler Elves? If I had a guitar, or played one, I'd play a song by Jon Prine: "Your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore It's already too crowded from your dirty little war"! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 395 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
That's a cute song Barnesphoto.... you may have a future! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 396 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Barnesfoto: How about this one...in the key of G: I woke up one day and the 60's returned The wife's gotten older, but her bra will still burn Its fun acting smart like I offer something worthwhile When asked what I'd do, I keep quiet and smile I don't need an answer and that's why I hush Just bitch and moan and then blame it on Bush ______________________________ _______________ What do think? Will it play at the Majestic? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1270 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Lowell, please, you're a smart man. I did not say "anti-war therefore anti-American." I said all too often, war protestors are joining the ranks of bonafide anti-Americans. That's really no big deal to me. I know that there are plenty of anti-Americans in America. There are different ways of being anti-American, and certainly different levels. You can want to kill Americans, like terrorists. But you can also simply be against the democratic republic form of governance, our capitalist economy, or simply the direction of the country in general. How else would you characterize the people who go "we're fighting a pointless war, there's a huge gap between the rich and the poor because of our flawed economic system, there's inequality everywhere, there are too many religous wackos running this country, and freaking Bush and the Republicans just won another freaking election--I can't take it anymore--I'm moving to _____(choose country." This is mildly anti-American. I'm not scared of this, and the people that espouse these views need to admit that they are somewhat unpatriotic (and immature because they can't accept that someone they didn't vote for is in office). It's really not a big deal. But yeah, America stands for a lot of things, and since I hate generalizations, it was out of my character to use that term in my last post. I agree Irish_mafia. Thoughtful, sit-down discussions are all too rare these days. Too many stereotypes, generalities, and division. I suggest the book "Crunchy Cons" which recently came out...good stuff when it comes to talking about the scary direction American politics esp. re: the contruct of modern conservatism. Jdkeepsmiling: i knew I wasn't alone. In this political climate, it is so wierd when I have to go explaining myself for being a Republican and a Bush-voter but not liking everything that Bush has done. The war has had some missteps, his budget is too big, real results are not being produced for the religious right, and he has not been forceful enough in whipping fellow republicans into shape on issues of international trade and free movement of labor. I support liberalization of immigration policy and so do many old school republicans, but Bush is letting fellow republicans (led by Sensenbrenner, Tancredo, etc.) run amuck with this restrictionism and closed door policy. Indeed mr. mafia, corned beef for all! | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 2968 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.177.209 |
So Mackinaw, turning your argument around, were all the conservatives who opposed everything the Clinton administration did anti-American? | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 445 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Mackinaw, er, dissent is anti-American? Might want to read up on the U.S. Revolutionary War, you know, the Boston Tea Party and all that?  (Message edited by Jimaz on March 16, 2006) | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 397 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Czar, Are you refering to when Clinton bombed Iraq? or Started the "home by Christmas" Balkan War that we still have troops in? or when he ran like hell from Mogadishu after our troops were killed? or when he ignored the terrorist attack on the US Cole? or when he ignored the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center? Or when he bombed an aspirin factory in Africa? I don't remember any liberals screaming about the blood on his hands then... at all. They really didn't seem to care....at all. On the otherhand, the conservatives didn't have a sit-in at the Fed either. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1271 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Good point. And the key to my point was the liberals who said they would LEAVE AMERICA soley because they didn't like who was in office and what they stood for. Doesn't that seem unpatriotic, and a little more than dissent? Nobody was leaving America on account Clinton. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 398 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Well, I was ... but it was mostly to get a drink over in Windsor... | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 446 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
That's the funniest line I've read all day. Thanks | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 399 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
a pleasure Jimaz! | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 2969 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.49.166.173 |
Mackinaw, you stated that being against the direction the country was heading in is anti-American. That's complete and utter bullshit whether it was Clinton in office or Bush in office today. Your post was rambling and didn't make any sense. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 400 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Czar, That wasn't nice | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3337 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I second that question/comment. It it so incredibly ironic, and so similar to the religious extremists all over the world that call for the death of civilians and "evil doers," alike, in their places of worship. I think an incredible amount of people will be unpleasently surprised at where they end up when they die. lol I guess two wrongs make a right to so many, huh? | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 209 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.70.154 |
Irish_mafia, the 9/11 Commission Report says otherwise to your statements. The 9/11 Commission Report concluded that: Iraq had no Weapons of Mass Destruction Iraq had no links to Al Qaeda Iraq had no links to 9/11 Iraq had no nuclear weapons program. But the 9/11 Commission Report did find ties between Al Qaeda and Iran. We invaded the wrong country. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 401 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
No problem LMichigan, Let me help you out with the problem you are having. You are falling victim to a rather popular view of the world known as moral relativism. Simply, right and wrong are relative..."who are we to judge?" is the common phrase. This disturbing little complex sends people down a rather bizarre path that often ends with observations like "sure Hitler killed a lot of Jews, but is that our business? Who are we to impose our will on Germany?" What you don't seem to understand is that these are bad (may I say Evil) people these terrorists. They are not simply misunderstood folk who need a way to express themselves. They are the very epitome of scum. As such, their immediate elimination is both hoped for and prayed for. It will make the world a better place for those that we of the "less than gray" view of the world call: Good people. Any more questions? | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
there are more ties between bush and his cronies and al qaeda then there were between iraq an al qaeda--simple truth | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 402 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Philbert, Your analysis of the 911 Commission report is flawed (well actually its just not even true). But interesting reading keep typing it until someone believes you. Jjw, I'm sorry that I missed that simple truth. That explains everything. Thanks | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1273 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
You're fighting a good fight overall, Irish. Good point on moral relativism. I just would side with a few of the people here who called you out for your earlier statements re: going to church because we are in favor of the war. Maybe your wording was just a little careless, but I still think church is the place to pray for the peace that only God can bring. Czar, I was rambling indeed. A discussion like this is best taken on in person rather than online. I cannot stress enough, though, that I was saying it was mildly anti-American to say that IF so and so a political event occurs THEN you will leave this country. | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.70.154 |
It was not my analysis, it was the alalysis of thousands of news media outlets. Here are some examples: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun 16.html http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/52 23932/ http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06 /17/politics/17panel.html?ex=1 402804800&en=492ac04303208f60& ei=5007&partner=USERLAND http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/ame ricas/3565585.stm etc. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 403 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Thanks Mackinaw, and I understand your objection on the Church thing. In regards to the un-American thing, you may be backing off just a wee bit too quickly. Remember, The leaders of the parade on the anti-war commentary in this country are in many cases the same clowns who voted to go to war in this first place and now, have found it politically expedient to criticize....knowing full well that their actions and quotes are used: * As talking points for Al Queda * As anti-American rhetoric on Al-Jezerra and other unfriendly networks in the Arab world * As propoganda to convince those that fight against us that we have no back bone as a nation and they can outlast us. Ultimately, this activity of course extends the length of the war and increases the casualties of our soldiers....as well as aiding the recruitment efforts of Al Queda for further terrorist activities. So, it is not necessary to back away from statements that these activities are un-American. They are! and those who engage in them should be ashamed of themselves. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 404 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Thanks for "the alalysis" of the liberal media Philbert. Thoughtful and analytical you are! Way to dig deep. | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 211 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.70.154 |
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0 ,2933,122821,00.html | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 448 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
LOL! | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 63 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.216.100.91 |
Irish Mafia....what is the problem that the right has with admitting an error??? I mean at the time I was for going into Iraqas well, and I still think that Bush acted out of what he thought was best given the information he had. I think he honestly thought there were WMD in Iraq....but there was not...and things are not exactly working out for us over there. Don't you think it takes more of a man to admit mistakes and react then to blindly stumble forward in apparent arrogance? Just an honest question. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 405 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Philbert, Let me help you get past the headlines that all draw from the same news service to dig a little deeper....including the report itself. FYI, If you selectively quote from the report as the news services did...you too can create your own headlines of choice. http://www.freerepublic.com/fo cus/f-news/1182042/posts http://www.powerlineblog.com/a rchives/006934.php http://www.washtimes.com/natio nal/20040621-124414-5078r.htm http://www.9-11commission.gov/ report/911Report.pdf http://www.nationalreview.com/ mccarthy/mccarthy200406170840. asp | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 406 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Jdkeepsmiling, Good question! I completely agree that you adjust your strategy and tactics as you receive new information. Does that mean apologizing on camera so that the liberal media (or the conservative critics back in Clinton's day) can have a 5 second sound bite? Doesn't seem prudent to me. Seems like a propaganda tool for the Democrats for the next election and more depressingly a tool for Al Queda to use for their own means in AlJazerra broadcasts, etc. Its a losing proposition for our country to follow that Oprahish path. or does it mean adjusting your strategy and tactics for victory? On that line, what would you have the administration do differently that would be beneficial for this country? There appears to be a bunch of people on this site that would have us cut-and-run. Do you think that is our best approach? I don't | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2926 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.148.230.6 |
And according to this paragraph, I find them exercising their Rights as an American.
I've opposed this war from the very beginning. Three years ago when the wardrums were beating. I had many heated discussions about, what I feel was/is an unnecessary war that would destabalize the Middle East, cost thousands of lives, and leave the US in the position of occuping foreign soil for a very long time. Well, Mr Bush has surprised me. He has surpassed my worst fears in his mishandling of the entire situation. As for my support of tne troops, I am very proud of my nephew, as well as a few more of my relatives, for putting in his time there, receiving a Bronze Star, his action also cost him normal use of his lungs for the rest of his life. Now his main fight is with the VA just to receive benefits he is entitled. | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 212 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.70.154 |
powerlineblog.com good grief. Now that is desperation. Some of those articles were not exactly supporting what you claim, btw. So it still stands: Iraq had no WMD, none have been found and no traces of WMD have been found. Iraq had no ties to 9/11, none have been reported Iraq had no ties to Al Qaeda, none have been reported Iraq had no nuclear weapons program, no program has been reported. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2927 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.148.230.6 |
"There appears to be a bunch of people on this site that would have us cut-and-run. Do you think that is our best approach? I don't" That's the bitch, WE CAN'T NOW, but we should NEVER have been there in the first place! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 407 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Philbert, Dig a little deeper buddy. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 408 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Jams, You argued at the beginning of the war and you lost the argument. We are where we are now. What do you propose we do? Besides bitch about it in Dearborn? What would the best possible outcome be to honor the actions that your nephew and friends have taken? As an aside, is your nephew using the resources of our senators and congressmen if he is not being treate properly by the VA? I work with these organizations and they respond to pressure from above. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 409 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Philbert says: NYTimes.com good grief. Now that is desperation. Some of those articles were not exactly supporting what you claim, btw. So it still stands: The world is not round, never has been never will be Hitler had no ties to the Holocaust none have been reported Al Capone had no ties to the Mob, none have been reported Iran had no nuclear weapons program, no program has been reported. It doesn't matter what you say. Keep saying it over and over and it must be true....but what about the contray evidence? Ignore it! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 410 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
How Philbert sees the World!  | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3341 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Irish, you are so incredibly mistaken. It is YOU seeing the world through jaded/rose-colored glasses. I do have a question since I haven't read everything since my last post. What type of conservative are you on this war: 1. One who believes that we went in to spread democracy to the Middle East? 2. One who believes that Iraq was a terrorist threat? Or, are you some combination of the two? I'm curious, because conservatives have flip-flopped like hell on this war. Whenever one reason proves to be a blatant lie and/or miscalculation, you simply choose another reason why this war was the right thing to do, in the right place, at the right time. I'm pro-life. Yes, you heard me. With something as deathly fatal and serious as war, I think that Bush and his hawks planned this boondogle very poorly, and that he doesn't realize the seriousness of war. Going to war on a shoestring and a whim was foolish then, and staying now is foolish through-and-through. When you stub your toe on a chair, you don't keep walking into the same chair expecting a different outcome. That is the definition of insanity. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 16, 2006) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2929 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.236.161.221 |
Honestly I'm at a loss. If the US pulls out, I forsee a bloodbath, that will spill over its borders. Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan as well as possibly Jordan, and Turkey may have to struggle for their survival. Those are just the easy guesses. The Islamic world now views the US not as a benign Superpower but as an aggressor or imperialistic state that plays by its own rules. As I said earlier, the US is in a quagmire of its own making, to leave now will most likely cause the deaths of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands. So, we'll be forced to accept the deaths of more Americans fighting for a cause they don't understand but feel they have an obligation to do their duty. IMO the best scenario would be some sort of international peacekeeping force, but I've a better chance of hitting the big winner in whatever Big Lottery to see that happen. As I said, I'm at a loss, but I'll support this rally, as well as all the others across the Country, to get across the point what is being done isn't working and the people in charge need to change their way of thinking. BTW I rarely actually leave Detroit proper, but the bitching in Dearborn and hundreds of cities and towns across this Country need to be listened to. To your aside, we've made a few phone calls and pulled a few strings to a couple of Congressmen, who shall remain nameless, that have expedited some processes for my nephew, but it sticks in my craw that we had to resort to that. Our troops who put their life on the line deserve better than that!! | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 411 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Jams, #1, I agree with your last paragraph. We do not and have not treated our enlisted servicemen or our veterans (in many cases) properly. I hope that your efforts with our congressmen are fruitful. I would also encourage you to contact Gordon Mansfield at the Deptarment of Veterans Affairs if you are not satisfied. To the point of going to Dearborn or anywhere else just to complain without an alternative plan, that does not appear to me to do anything to help our troups. Its easy to say we should do something differently. What? | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 412 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
So LMichigan, You would cut and Run. Then what would you do? | ||
Philbert Member Username: Philbert Post Number: 213 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.23.106.151 |
Some of Bush's speaches for the war on a lie: "Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons." United Nations address, September 12, 2002 "Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons." "We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have." Radio address, October 5, 2002 "The Iraqi regime . . . possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons." "We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas." "We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We're concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States." "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. Saddam Hussein has held numerous meetings with Iraqi nuclear scientists, a group he calls his "nuclear mujahideen" -- his nuclear holy warriors. Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." Cincinnati, Ohio speech, October 7, 2002 "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." Address to the nation, March 17, 2003 | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3343 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Irish, answer my questions first. Whoever came up with the idea that to help win the War on Terrorism (such an Orwellian name) that it was smart to invade and occupy (long-term) an Arab nation that had nothing to do with 9/11 should be physically dragged out of office and put on trial for gross negligence at the very least. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 2934 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.236.161.221 |
I don't get paid the big bucks or the prestige to make those decisions. What is being done is not working and people die daily because of that. I've agreed the US cannot walk away, but I may disagree with you that it was not the place to be in the first place. I fear Mr Bush Has made the world a more divisive place by his actions. Do I have answers? Hell no, but you and I pay the price as well as your (I've avoided procreating) grandchildren will be paying for this, foolish IMO, incursion onto foreign soil, when we had so many choices from so many despots. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1792 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 216.203.223.81 |
Irish seems be preocupied with 60's cliches... (cliches are so much easier to remember than facts) perhaps that's why he repeats one coined by Lyndon Johnson. "cut and run". Like Ian Paisley, he excells at encouraging the blood of OTHER PEOPLE to be sacrificed. Cluck on, chickenhawkie! you're doing a helluva job! | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3347 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
This current crop of conservatives love their buzzwords and dated cliches. Just a few that comes to mind: Un-American, Activist Judges, Culture of Life (and incredibly ironic one, at the moment), terrorists...Turn on Fox News and watch their "experts" and count how many times you see these words and phrases and others used. Remember, everyone, the Iraqi's and other assorted terrorists (they all seem to be the same to the conservatives whenever it is convenient to lump them all together) hate us for our freedom, and that's why they are bombing us and their own into oblivion. | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 413 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
You seem to be quite the fan of Ian Paisley Barnesfoto. Perhaps in the honor of our friends across the pond, you might want to follow the lead of Bobby Sands in your 60's angry liberal way? That and your rally this weekend should acomplish about the same thing. Don't forget to bring your cliche's. They seem to be all that's left of your argument. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 460 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060316/COL 25/60315025/1106 | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 540 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.61.98.175 |
Anyway. 4:30 at the Spirit of Detroit, march to Central United Methodist. I'm always so tickled to see quotes from the Washington Times. Did the Rev. Moon find you a wife, too? | ||
Irish_mafia Member Username: Irish_mafia Post Number: 416 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.248.5.189 |
Funny Jimaz | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 462 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
Mike Thompson deserves all the credit. Frame of reference cartoons are always interesting. After discussing Frame of Reference with a friend once, I suddenly turned toward an imaginary camera and said, "And after that insight from our guest, we'll return after this message from our sponsor." He absolutely freaked! LOL! | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 465 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
I'm really looking forward to photos from this event tomorrow. Please take cameras! |
