Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 One less scrapper Previous Next
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 944
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 12:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/8251564/detail.html
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Evelethcdenver
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Username: Evelethcdenver

Post Number: 98
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 71.211.166.9
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 12:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sad fact is that his family will sue The City of Detroit and probably get paid pretty handsomely.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7061
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.149.88
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 12:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good riddance. Too bad this doesn't happen to more scrappers and low lifes.
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Eric
Member
Username: Eric

Post Number: 385
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 12:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad this can't happen to more of them scrappers cause far too damage around here
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 977
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.8.93
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 1:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hope that he didn't breed before he Darwined himself.
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Bertz
Member
Username: Bertz

Post Number: 538
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.61.15.89
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 1:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

looks like he got his karma-kickback
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Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 653
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.220.37
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gosh, I sure hope the power station wasn't damaged.
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321brian
Member
Username: 321brian

Post Number: 87
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 68.62.6.147
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 5:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Watch for the lawsuit by his family suing the city for cuasing his death. Believe me it's coming.
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Cheddar_bob
Member
Username: Cheddar_bob

Post Number: 512
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 204.128.192.5
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm amazed that he lived to 41. He must have been very lucky.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1063
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 5:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a few of those cases for Detroit Edison back when service had been cut off and/or the "consumer" illegally tied into his neighbor's power. We called them "zap-cases," though the expression was never uttered in open court.
Yet desperate people do desperate things.
I recall mediating a case where the guy cut thru a chain link fence at the old Clark Ave Cadillac assembly plant at 2 in the morning,, skirted around the guard shack, climbed two sets of stairs in an area of the plant that was being demolished,, and while in the process of removing some copper piping, managed to fall through an open hole and ended up a quad. His medical bills were astronomical.
Everyone was sued, the City, GM, security guard company, etc. You would think those type of cases are slam-dunks for the defendents, but when the now rather pathetic plaintiff comes into the court room in a wheel chair, with his grieving mother/wife/family members, and the jury is shown the traditional "day-in-the-life-of {the plaintiff}"video depicting the former robust/athletic/dynamic- plaintiff who now has to be fed,dressed, put to bed, bodily needs attended to etc., the jury is sometimes hard-pressed to decide the case on the facts rather than on emotions.
The City staff attorneys used to try most of those cases, but now the more serious cases are often sent out to private counsel to defend.
I hated those "sure winners".
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Alexei289
Member
Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1076
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 8:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL... what a dumbass...

if they give this assholes family money... that would be disgusting...

Crime isnt supposed to pay...
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Andyguard73
Member
Username: Andyguard73

Post Number: 22
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 64.25.200.14
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 10:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand everyone hating what he did, and I agree 100% it would be rediculous for his family to win a lawsuit against the city, but don't you guys think things like "good riddence" and it should happen to more of them are a little harsh?
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Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz

Post Number: 568
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 68.2.191.57
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 11:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, it's harsh. Loss of life versus loss of property. Still, no one can bring him back. Let it be a warning to others. There are no safety regulations in that trade.

(Alexei289, there was a recent case of scrappers stealing copper from new residential developments in Phoenix.)

(Message edited by Jimaz on March 25, 2006)
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Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 399
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 1:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here lies Theopolis....

He wanted some scrap,
But he made a blunder
Instead of six bucks up,
He's six feet under
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3448
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 1:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Theopolis Mitchell
24,000 volts,
Theopolis Twitchell.

There once a man from Detroit
who went scrapping one fine night

He said with a look, his ass being cooked

The risk was great but my budget is tight.

jjaba, With a Nod to Ray1936.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 1921
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.150.26
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 2:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmmmm..... Back when folks were posting about the stripping of the roof to the Lee Plaza on W. Grand Blvd. & Grand River... I commented that we should "WD-40" the Lee Plaza roof before the strippers got to it. I can see the Limerick now....

There was once a scrapper named Thad.
Who thought the Lee Plaza roof could be had.
He went up one day.
But to his dismay.
He slid off and it ended real bad!

:-)
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 4:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There once was a scrapper named jjaba
Who wanted to be richer than ABBA
So he rigged his gas meter
So heat bills would be cheaper
And now he posts from the slamma.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3449
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 6:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There once a scrapper name Rock
whose ladder skills were best on the block

Up he went with flair, ass in the air

Flipped a 24,000 volt switch, son of a bitch,
he flew like the rest of the flock.

jjaba, with a nod to Gistok.
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The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock

Post Number: 1067
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.251.225
Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 6:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK-- I give up. You win, hands down or ass up.
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Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 945
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.20
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel little sympathy. Those guys should pick up a hammer, not a crow-bar and wire cutters.

They put so much effort into destroying things, that could be put towards building things.
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 3861
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.227
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Evelethcdenver,

I DON'T THINK SO!!! That man who broke into the DPL power station has NO BUSINESS messing with the powerlines. Therefore they can't sue the city for any circumstances of crimes.
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Pamequus
Member
Username: Pamequus

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 158.229.218.204
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You miss the point Danny.........here's how it works.....the good folks of DPL KNEW that there was copper wiring in there and the good folks of DPL SHOULD HAVE KNOWN the copper wiring would be a tremendous temptation to certain individuals and, therefore, SHOULD have taken more steps to assure that the tempted individuals weren't injured. Silly as that may seem, that is how it will be played out in a court room. Even more amazing is how many folks on the juries buy into that crap.
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Pmardo
Member
Username: Pmardo

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 10:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

real issue = unemployment
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56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 143
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

real issue=common lack of respect for laws and property.
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Pmardo
Member
Username: Pmardo

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

real problem = law and order mentality that takes little into account of realities of inner city poverty and treats symptoms instead of structural problems that create them.
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Outoftowner
Member
Username: Outoftowner

Post Number: 118
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.223.214.2
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's just the natural cleansing of the gene pool. It doesn't happen often enough.
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 73
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 68.166.44.44
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 12:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pmardo, sure, lets just let our hearts bleed for the crooks and scofflaws of the world. It is always the fault of someone else. The world is a better and safer place for the 24,000 volts. As a really new forum member, save us from blaming anyone and everyone for the criminals of the world.


the river rat tells it true
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Pmardo
Member
Username: Pmardo

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 1:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

river rat:

Even if the ideal of respect for public laws and property is instilled in every citizen in the city of Detroit, the issue remains that the city is plagued by poverty, meaning that people will do what they have to do to get by.

Blaming the victim really does not accomplish a whole lot besides a self-indulging catharsis. What we should really be thinking about is targeting poverty from a regional scope. Folks in the suburbs who move to the fringe every day are just as connected with the conditions in the city as are the "criminals." We need to think about how poverty was created in the first place and how those who were part of creating it can now help in the regeneration of our central city.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3459
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 1:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let the punishment fit the crime. You steal a candy bar, you might get shot by the store owner. You steal copper wire, you get a 24,000 volt jolt.
Either way, you're on a slab down to the morgue.

Pmardo, most of The Forum are liberals. Not to worry. You are most welcome here. This thread is about a universally understood illegal and stupid act. Sadly, for whatever reason he did it, he's now colder than a Escanaba well digger's ass.

jjaba.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3460
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 1:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correction, ... colder than an Escanaba well digger's ass. (But the M-F is still dead.)
Sorry for the grammatical error.

jjaba.
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56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 147
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 5:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pmardo: your assertion that scrapping is justified due to poverty is an insult to every person who lifted themselves out of poverty by education and hard work (it ain't the easy way, but many have). The scrapping of vacant buildings is an equal affront to the building and area compared to the owner who abandoned it. BTW: didn't Lyndon Johnson declare war on poverty 40 years ago?
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 74
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 198.172.203.246
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 5:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pmardo,

More than once it has been pointed out that the war on poverty is the most expensive war this country has ever fought and, still, we lose it. Forty years and about Nine TRILLION dollars. A lot of us were born and lived poor in Detroit and didn't resort to crime, thievery or other criminal activities.

You are welcome on the forum as a liberal; we want to hear you whine. Tell us, what is your solution? Another how many trillion.

the river rat welcomes you
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Pmardo
Member
Username: Pmardo

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 6:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not declaring a war on poverty - it has been done and has failed. What I am saying is that people throughout the region, those in our suburbs and exurbs are responsible for poverty just as much as anyone else. For poverty to ever be eradicated we need regional solutions such as fair-share housing practices (affordable housing not just concerntrated in Detroit) and tax-base sharing. Until these regional solutions are instilled, I sadly see little other way to end poverty.

I do not believe I justified the crime either - it just does not surprise me at all.

What do you think river rat?
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 75
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 198.172.203.246
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 7:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, Pmardo, what you are advocating resembles a different social and governmental system than we have. Eastern Europe is still trying to overcome decades of a system you seem to be espousing.

Revenue sharing and tax sharing wouold imply a regional government and I doubt that the region as a whole would support the comingling of the electorate. Not that the suburbs and exurbs have great governments, but it would be a real stretch to think they would allow those who voted in the leadership of Detroit to select their leaders. Just as valid is that Detroit residents would not be accepting of control from without. So, your plan / suggestion is not very practical.

What is practical is to make the region (any part of it)safe and job friendly. This means lower taxation and more responsible and smaller governments. Certainly not more government and more money.

As an aside, river rat has been in many REALLY poor parts of this earth and found crime to be very minimal. An example that comes to mind is the poor areas of Cairo.


the river rat who has seen it all
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3468
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 8:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At issue with scrappers is civil order. jjaba was a War on Poverty Natl. staffer with VISTA Volunteers 1965-1970. We always knew that a rise in poverty means social upheavals. So dealing with poverty isn't just about helping individuals, it is preserving law and order.

Having people breaking into public lighting systems is a breakdown in law and order.
And it's not just for the healthy poor. Some meth addicts steal aluminium guard rails from highways and bridges. Imagine being so stoned to endanger people for the next hit of dope.

Metal dealers can attest to what comes in the front end of their lots.

jjaba.
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Pmardo
Member
Username: Pmardo

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 8:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Think governance and not government. Regional solutuions to not have to come froma top down, all embracing government, in fact they often work best otherwise, such as in NYC.

In fact, regionalism really has nothing to do with communism and is implemented in many areas throughout our nation. Minneapolis-St. Paul engages in revenue sharing and nowadays the city is subsidizing the declining suburbs! New Jersey has fair share housing practices (because of the Mt. Laurel case), and both Seattle and Portland have growth boundaries!

It is essential to market the region as a whole: not just the city, not just the suburbs. We are all interdependent and must act as a unit to remain competitive in the national/international economy. Furthermore, we can become much more efficent by creating strategic partherships to cut down costly service-providing at unbenefical scales.

Give it a chance, its really not communism!
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Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 355
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 8:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pmardo: I like the way you think. Feel free to subsidize my PayPal account anytime. I could use your interdependence. [It doesn't bother me much that it seems communist.]
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Opus
Member
Username: Opus

Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 72.241.50.213
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 9:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So tearing apart a possibly vital part of the power grid is a way to cope with poverty? This has nothing to do with the economy; this has to do with an individual with one or more problems that made a really bad choice. Many of the scrappers are guys who actually make a pretty good living, but have been raised to believe that what they have is not enough; they always want that extra buck that they feel is just laying there to be taken. They have 0 consciences regarding their actions, and they usually never consider the possible consequences.
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9963
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 9:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One less armed homeless/mental guy too.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/8291705/detail.html
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 76
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 198.172.203.246
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Pmardo is correct in pointing out the ambitious plans in Seattle. Portland (and especially Vancouver, BC). These regional plans to create urban centers and discourage sprawl are moving forward with significant successes.

This thread started out discussing a thief, crook, scrapper who paid the ultimate price for his criminal acts. It has turned into a discourse on urban planning and the causes of the crime / poverty relationship.

The three cities mentioned that are managing the 'sprawl problem' do not have the public safety and crime issues that plague our area. People are not generally concerned for their personal safety and property to the degree Detroit residents are required to be. Sure, not all of those cities are shining gardens free of problems, but very different than here.

To return to the reason for the thread. Stop crime and drugs (they aren't synonimous with poverty) and the city will begin to return as a place to work and play AND LIVE.


the river rat
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623kraw
Member
Username: 623kraw

Post Number: 869
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.41.224.200
Posted on Tuesday, March 28, 2006 - 4:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"...You steal copper wire, you get a 24,000 volt jolt.
Either way, you're on a slab down to the morgue..."

My God, 24,000 volts? This guy was vaporized and ready to be poured into an urn...surprised he was even identifiable (dental records?)

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