Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1504 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 9:16 am: | |
We often discuss the challenges of building in downtown related to parking. I think there are some pearls of wisdom in this article about LA: http://www.ladowntownnews.com/ articles/2006/03/27/news/news0 1.txt Especially "simplify, simplify, simplify" |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1505 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:11 am: | |
Found another one: http://www.planetizen.com/node /19149 |
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander
Post Number: 1686 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 150.198.150.244
| Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:18 am: | |
For Crains subscribers there is a good article about parking in Detroit this week. |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1047 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.1.1.33
| Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 3:31 pm: | |
Agreed, MerchantG. Here is the article: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/c gi-bin/article.pl?articleId=29 030 Not sure if it's only available to subscribers... if so, here is an excerpt:
quote:Parking choices multiply downtown Lots of spots may mean falling prices By Jennette Smith • March 27, 2006 Park at Miller Parking Co.’s Renaissance Center garage and it costs $15 for the day. Park a few blocks north and it could cost more than $20 in a garage. Find a spot in a city-owned lot and it costs $5. Prices for daytime parking in Detroit vary wildly because of proximity to key buildings. But parking executives and industry observers say prices are likely to edge downward at some sites this year as downtown’s parking supply continues to grow. ... James Miller, president of Detroit-based Miller Parking, said he dropped rates a bit at the RenCen garage because of competition. Miller said downtown has too much parking given a soft office market. “People think they are doing the right thing by requiring a certain number of spaces, but what they are doing is mandating too much space dedicated to parking,” Miller said. “I think the government gets too involved in putting parking supply on the market.” ...
|
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh
Post Number: 114 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.205.183
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:25 am: | |
What are people's thoughts on a downtown parking guide? |
Unclefrank Member Username: Unclefrank
Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 192.85.50.2
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:30 am: | |
Safe cheap parking is one of the major reasons why alot of people don't hangout downtown. Why pay to park your car when in most of the burbs you can do it for free, or almost for free. |
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo
Post Number: 559 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.53
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:43 am: | |
Because going to the mall is not nearly as fun or exciting as goin to Campus Martius or elsewhere in the CBD. Besides, you shouldn't be parking in the CBD... you should be walking! |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1507 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:00 pm: | |
I actually agree with Unclefrank and Detroitduo. ...Except the "cheap" part. Parking should be simple, safe, and relatively easy. It should not be cheap. I think the city should be making money off of parking, and investing it downtown (streetscapes etc), instead of subsidizing it. So corridinated parking management and parking guides are a great idea. For example: Why does the garage next to the Buhl have to close so early? If it were open 24/7, could some of the vacant offices in the area be converted to residential? For example #2: Why is it hard to find parking rates, or to tell if a garage is full? It terms of signage etc, I think it should be easier to park downtown than to drive. However, making it free is stupid public policy. Any burb that has free parking and an urban feel is loosing their ass providing it. |
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies
Post Number: 1706 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:19 pm: | |
These's an abundance of parking downtown. So much so prices have been falling. This hopefully reduces the profits for the operators, causing them to put their lots up for sale. This could lead to parking lots being turned into buildings. |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1508 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:22 pm: | |
Great point Ndavies! I hope that does happen. I personally believe that better management of existing parking and better information about parking options can help further increase the supply. Especially with respect to night-time parking uses. |
Jimelnino Member Username: Jimelnino
Post Number: 377 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.252.69.252
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:30 pm: | |
I do not understand how people have trouble finding parking downtown. I usually park in Compuware, its $5 all day on the weekends and after 6pm(I believe) during the week, but if you go buy a $5 magazine at Borders, or a $2.50 cup of Ice Cream at Ben & Jerry's its free. Plus its in the center of everything, within walking distance of everything downtown. There are way too many parking options downtown for people to have trouble finding a place to park. |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1510 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:42 pm: | |
Exactly, I definately don't have a hard time finding places to park. Short of a couple quarters, I haven't paid for parking for about a year (or gotten a ticket). Maybe that has something to do with taking the bus a lot. The issue is that there are tons of empty spaces out there, and people (mostly visitors) who can't find them. We need to match them up, instead of building tons of new spaces right under their noses. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:03 pm: | |
quote:These's an abundance of parking downtown. So much so prices have been falling. This hopefully reduces the profits for the operators, causing them to put their lots up for sale. This could lead to parking lots being turned into buildings.
Every one of those surface parking lots in the CBD previously had a building on them. Those buildings were torn down in the 1930s, 40s and 50s to meet the parking demands caused by shoppers and office workers who could afford a car and drove them downtown - despite the presence of a convenient streetcar and bus system. As a result, the DSR lost a huge chunk of its ridership base and the CBD lost its dense, urban feel when it attempted to accomodate the private automobile. While new construction has the potential of providing their own off-street parking, demand for parking in the rebounding CBD will eventually out-strip the supply and prices will climb accordingly. Without a comprehensive parking strategy such as LA is trying to implement, history is bound to repeat itself in downtown Detroit. |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1511 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:09 pm: | |
Sendond in a series: http://www.planetizen.com/node /19150 Good points MikeG. I would add that transit investments can put a big dent in the problem as well. But you'd be surprised how long some lots have been vacant (the corner of adams, madison, and Witherel comes to mind). |
Commodore64 Member Username: Commodore64
Post Number: 199 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 66.73.225.162
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:14 pm: | |
Some of it has to do with the policies of the Parking Department. They don't allow for monthly sign ups all the time, and when they do, they don't process the application very quickly. Meanwhile, I am stuck in limbo while they make up their minds. I continue to park at the Foster garage, even though I am now working by Comerica Tower. Time is ticking at Foster, and I want to get into somewhere before they demo it! |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1512 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:25 pm: | |
I'm sure the parking department is a huge problem. BTW - what is the foster? |
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog
Post Number: 99 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.7
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:42 pm: | |
Mikeg brings up a very good point. Even with good mass transit and a lack of parking downtown, people still chose to drive their cars. I'm sure there are many complex reasons why people preferred to drive when there was good mass transit. Any thoughts? |
Commodore64 Member Username: Commodore64
Post Number: 200 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 66.73.225.162
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:44 pm: | |
The Foster Garage, the one they are going to demo for the Casino garage/hotel. Its a really nasty place, you should check it out sometime! |
Danindc Member Username: Danindc
Post Number: 1371 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:49 pm: | |
quote:Mikeg brings up a very good point. Even with good mass transit and a lack of parking downtown, people still chose to drive their cars.
That's a misleading statement at best. You make it sound as if everyone suddenly abandoned the DSR in favor of their Model T, presumably because of some inherent desire to drive everywhere. I would argue that more people drove because more accommodations were made for cars. This would include widening of streets, demolition of buildings for parking lots, and decrease of quality in transit service (conversion of streetcars to buses). That's not to say some people won't always want to drive. Even here in DC and in Manhattan, many people choose to drive, and that's fine by me. |
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg
Post Number: 33 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 4:05 pm: | |
There was a long period during which parking accomodations were made in Detroit's CBD. The Roaring 20's saw the beginning of the boom in private auto ownership while at the same time there was a frenzy of new office/commercial construction in the CBD. The Stock Market Crash brought a halt to the new construction, but not to the auto traffic that converged down the radial arterials into the CBD, snarling streetcar movement. As a result, instead of tearing down the substandard buildings to make way for new towers, property owners tore them down to create off-street surface parking. Despite gas rationing during WW II, parking demand continued to be accommodated during the 1940s because rationing of building materials prevented any new construction that could compete for those lots. The critical tipping point came in the immediate post-war period of the late 1940s. Instead of letting supply and demand drive the cost of a CBD parking space to a point where it sent commuters back onto the DSR, the city traffic engineers were looking for ways to reduce the horrid rush hour traffic jams on the major streets. They conducted a study along Grand River near Olympia Stadium which proved that peak traffic flow was increased by +30% when they replaced the streetcars with buses. Within seven years, there were no more streetcars anywhere in Detroit and parking lots continued to compete with new construction in the CBD. The parking issue will eventually prove to be a bottleneck in the resurgence of the CBD unless a viable parking and transit strategy can be implemented. The transit portion of that strategy is the most important part and will take the longest to implement. It has to start now with a turnaround of the existing bus systems into one that is reliable, clean and safe. |
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity
Post Number: 212 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.77.161.57
| Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 5:10 pm: | |
There is no such thing as "free" parking, in the suburbs or elsewhere. Nothing is free in life. So-called free parking is actually paid for by tenants in the form of higher rent and common area maintenance charges; landlords recover all of their costs of providing parking, including taxes, operational costs, acquisition/opportunity/ret. on investment costs, repairs and maintenance etc. |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1515 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 1:03 pm: | |
Thank you 3rd. Here is another one (an .mp3): http://www.planetizen.com/node /19228 |
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers
Post Number: 1520 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68
| Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 11:12 am: | |
And another: http://www.planetizen.com/node /19246 |