Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2006 » Downtown Parking « Previous Next »
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1504
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 9:16 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We often discuss the challenges of building in downtown related to parking. I think there are some pearls of wisdom in this article about LA:

http://www.ladowntownnews.com/ articles/2006/03/27/news/news0 1.txt

Especially "simplify, simplify, simplify"
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1505
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Found another one:

http://www.planetizen.com/node /19149
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1686
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For Crains subscribers there is a good article about parking in Detroit this week.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1047
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.33
Posted on Monday, March 27, 2006 - 3:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed, MerchantG. Here is the article: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/c gi-bin/article.pl?articleId=29 030

Not sure if it's only available to subscribers... if so, here is an excerpt:

quote:

Parking choices multiply downtown
Lots of spots may mean falling prices
By Jennette Smith
• March 27, 2006

Park at Miller Parking Co.’s Renaissance Center garage and it costs $15 for the day.

Park a few blocks north and it could cost more than $20 in a garage. Find a spot in a city-owned lot and it costs $5.

Prices for daytime parking in Detroit vary wildly because of proximity to key buildings. But parking executives and industry observers say prices are likely to edge downward at some sites this year as downtown’s parking supply continues to grow.

...

James Miller, president of Detroit-based Miller Parking, said he dropped rates a bit at the RenCen garage because of competition. Miller said downtown has too much parking given a soft office market.

“People think they are doing the right thing by requiring a certain number of spaces, but what they are doing is mandating too much space dedicated to parking,” Miller said. “I think the government gets too involved in putting parking supply on the market.”

...


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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.40.205.183
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:25 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What are people's thoughts on a downtown parking guide?
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Unclefrank
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Username: Unclefrank

Post Number: 22
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 192.85.50.2
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:30 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Safe cheap parking is one of the major reasons why alot of people don't hangout downtown. Why pay to park your car when in most of the burbs you can do it for free, or almost for free.
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 559
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 194.138.39.53
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Because going to the mall is not nearly as fun or exciting as goin to Campus Martius or elsewhere in the CBD. Besides, you shouldn't be parking in the CBD... you should be walking!
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1507
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I actually agree with Unclefrank and Detroitduo.

...Except the "cheap" part.

Parking should be simple, safe, and relatively easy. It should not be cheap.

I think the city should be making money off of parking, and investing it downtown (streetscapes etc), instead of subsidizing it.

So corridinated parking management and parking guides are a great idea.

For example: Why does the garage next to the Buhl have to close so early? If it were open 24/7, could some of the vacant offices in the area be converted to residential?

For example #2: Why is it hard to find parking rates, or to tell if a garage is full? It terms of signage etc, I think it should be easier to park downtown than to drive.

However, making it free is stupid public policy. Any burb that has free parking and an urban feel is loosing their ass providing it.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1706
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.233
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These's an abundance of parking downtown. So much so prices have been falling. This hopefully reduces the profits for the operators, causing them to put their lots up for sale. This could lead to parking lots being turned into buildings.
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1508
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Great point Ndavies!

I hope that does happen.

I personally believe that better management of existing parking and better information about parking options can help further increase the supply.

Especially with respect to night-time parking uses.
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Jimelnino
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Username: Jimelnino

Post Number: 377
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 68.252.69.252
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do not understand how people have trouble finding parking downtown. I usually park in Compuware, its $5 all day on the weekends and after 6pm(I believe) during the week, but if you go buy a $5 magazine at Borders, or a $2.50 cup of Ice Cream at Ben & Jerry's its free. Plus its in the center of everything, within walking distance of everything downtown.

There are way too many parking options downtown for people to have trouble finding a place to park.
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1510
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly,

I definately don't have a hard time finding places to park. Short of a couple quarters, I haven't paid for parking for about a year (or gotten a ticket). Maybe that has something to do with taking the bus a lot.

The issue is that there are tons of empty spaces out there, and people (mostly visitors) who can't find them.

We need to match them up, instead of building tons of new spaces right under their noses.
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Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

These's an abundance of parking downtown. So much so prices have been falling. This hopefully reduces the profits for the operators, causing them to put their lots up for sale. This could lead to parking lots being turned into buildings.




Every one of those surface parking lots in the CBD previously had a building on them. Those buildings were torn down in the 1930s, 40s and 50s to meet the parking demands caused by shoppers and office workers who could afford a car and drove them downtown - despite the presence of a convenient streetcar and bus system. As a result, the DSR lost a huge chunk of its ridership base and the CBD lost its dense, urban feel when it attempted to accomodate the private automobile.

While new construction has the potential of providing their own off-street parking, demand for parking in the rebounding CBD will eventually out-strip the supply and prices will climb accordingly. Without a comprehensive parking strategy such as LA is trying to implement, history is bound to repeat itself in downtown Detroit.
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1511
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sendond in a series:

http://www.planetizen.com/node /19150

Good points MikeG. I would add that transit investments can put a big dent in the problem as well.

But you'd be surprised how long some lots have been vacant (the corner of adams, madison, and Witherel comes to mind).
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Commodore64
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Username: Commodore64

Post Number: 199
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 66.73.225.162
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of it has to do with the policies of the Parking Department. They don't allow for monthly sign ups all the time, and when they do, they don't process the application very quickly. Meanwhile, I am stuck in limbo while they make up their minds. I continue to park at the Foster garage, even though I am now working by Comerica Tower. Time is ticking at Foster, and I want to get into somewhere before they demo it!
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1512
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure the parking department is a huge problem.

BTW - what is the foster?
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 99
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.7
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg brings up a very good point. Even with good mass transit and a lack of parking downtown, people still chose to drive their cars. I'm sure there are many complex reasons why people preferred to drive when there was good mass transit. Any thoughts?
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Commodore64
Member
Username: Commodore64

Post Number: 200
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 66.73.225.162
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Foster Garage, the one they are going to demo for the Casino garage/hotel. Its a really nasty place, you should check it out sometime!
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1371
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 2:49 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Mikeg brings up a very good point. Even with good mass transit and a lack of parking downtown, people still chose to drive their cars.




That's a misleading statement at best. You make it sound as if everyone suddenly abandoned the DSR in favor of their Model T, presumably because of some inherent desire to drive everywhere. I would argue that more people drove because more accommodations were made for cars. This would include widening of streets, demolition of buildings for parking lots, and decrease of quality in transit service (conversion of streetcars to buses).

That's not to say some people won't always want to drive. Even here in DC and in Manhattan, many people choose to drive, and that's fine by me.
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Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 33
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 4:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was a long period during which parking accomodations were made in Detroit's CBD. The Roaring 20's saw the beginning of the boom in private auto ownership while at the same time there was a frenzy of new office/commercial construction in the CBD. The Stock Market Crash brought a halt to the new construction, but not to the auto traffic that converged down the radial arterials into the CBD, snarling streetcar movement. As a result, instead of tearing down the substandard buildings to make way for new towers, property owners tore them down to create off-street surface parking.

Despite gas rationing during WW II, parking demand continued to be accommodated during the 1940s because rationing of building materials prevented any new construction that could compete for those lots.

The critical tipping point came in the immediate post-war period of the late 1940s. Instead of letting supply and demand drive the cost of a CBD parking space to a point where it sent commuters back onto the DSR, the city traffic engineers were looking for ways to reduce the horrid rush hour traffic jams on the major streets. They conducted a study along Grand River near Olympia Stadium which proved that peak traffic flow was increased by +30% when they replaced the streetcars with buses. Within seven years, there were no more streetcars anywhere in Detroit and parking lots continued to compete with new construction in the CBD.

The parking issue will eventually prove to be a bottleneck in the resurgence of the CBD unless a viable parking and transit strategy can be implemented. The transit portion of that strategy is the most important part and will take the longest to implement. It has to start now with a turnaround of the existing bus systems into one that is reliable, clean and safe.
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3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 212
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 68.77.161.57
Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 5:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no such thing as "free" parking, in the suburbs or elsewhere. Nothing is free in life.

So-called free parking is actually paid for by tenants in the form of higher rent and common area maintenance charges; landlords recover all of their costs of providing parking, including taxes, operational costs, acquisition/opportunity/ret. on investment costs, repairs and maintenance etc.
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1515
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Thursday, March 30, 2006 - 1:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you 3rd.

Here is another one (an .mp3):

http://www.planetizen.com/node /19228
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1520
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And another:

http://www.planetizen.com/node /19246

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