Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Michigan Avenue reconstruction Previous Next
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 534
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 7:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So what's up with the plans for this? A Google search gave me nothing. A forum search unearthed a few threads from the last two years. One of which said the project was initially slated for this year, then delayed to 07, then delayed indefinitely. Another said a hertigae study was being done. I'm guessing that since Corktown is pretty proactive that there is some sort of plan in the works, but what is it? Could it be that any plans are being shelved until some sort of decision is made regarding the Ann Arbor/Detroit rapid transit line?
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Drm
Member
Username: Drm

Post Number: 911
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.252.5.237
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 7:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, there is a plan. It was presented to the community at a meeting this past Tuesday. Two lanes of automobile traffic in each direction with a left turn lane, and bike lanes and parallel parking on both sides. The traffic lanes are proposed to be done in stamped concrete that resembles bricks. No mass transit at this time, but the plan can accomodate it. Completion by 2011 or sooner. Between the Lodge and Fisher freeways. Construction to take place over one full season.
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 535
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 7:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the plan anywhere on the web?
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Drm
Member
Username: Drm

Post Number: 912
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.252.5.237
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 7:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know, but I'm sure you can get info if you contact MDOT.
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Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Friday, March 31, 2006 - 10:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The construction is getting in the way of the prostitutes!
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 536
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Saturday, April 01, 2006 - 1:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will there be any areas on the avenue for medians? Are there any plans to put in any traffic circles/roundabouts at some of the intersections? What about trees? From what I understand, the road will be shrunken by two lanes. Will that mean more room for sidewalks and planters for trees? Does anyone have any contact information for the MDOT people in charge of this project, like a name or office location? My apologies about the barage of questions, but I am genuinely curious.

IMO, and I'm pretty sure I'm repeating what a lot of people in that neighborhood have been thinking for a while, this stretch of road has lots of potential for making it more walkable. The stamped concrete, which isn't as good as pavers but still cooler than pavement, acts as a great traffic calmer. Thinning the roadway from 9 lanes to 7 makes it more appealing to cross. I also think roundabouts at a few intersections would make it more inviting to pedestrians and slow traffic down. Plus, those give a unique opportunity to make it visually appealing, ie putting a statue or tree in the middle.
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Drm
Member
Username: Drm

Post Number: 923
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.220.69.40
Posted on Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 11:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've told you all I know. I'm sure if you contact MDOT on Monday you can track down someone who is familiar with the project.
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Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.24.64.25
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 1:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I still haven't seen an update on the project near Tiger Stadium. There is a project like what Drm described slated for 2010 from Livernois to 28th St. Maybe they plan to continue that same design all the way down to the Lodge. I'm not sure.

Try contacting the Detroit Transportation Service Center. 313-965-6350
Someone there should have some info for you.
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Busterwmu
Member
Username: Busterwmu

Post Number: 222
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 24.247.221.241
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 6:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That stamped Concrete stuff does not double the quality of real brick. We've got stuff around here that sees only foot traffic and is falling apart, ca. 1975 or 80. That stuff on Michigan Ave. along Tiger Stadium and that area is pre 20s to the best of my knowledge, possibly a few decades before. Is it that costly to get a crew to come in, pull up the historic brick, relay the round foundation correctly, then put the brick back over it that it is prohibitive? And think about it, by reducing the vehicle lanes from 4 in each direction to two, you'll have lots of extra good bricks that are not broken! You could even extend the length of the old brick in this way.
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Drm
Member
Username: Drm

Post Number: 931
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.73.53.185
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, did you make any phone calls today? Did you learn anything that you can share with us?
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Bvos
Member
Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1374
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.148.226.17
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Buster,

The reason for stamped and colored concrete is due to the ease and cost of replacement.

Yes, it is incredibly expensive to relay the historic brick roadway. Hardly any companies know how to do it anymore and chances are good that the yahoos who show up to do the emergency repairs to the gas main break, water main break, etc. are going to destroy the bricks as they tear up the roadway with their backhoe (instead of a shovel and pick ax like they would have in the brick road era).

The way it works in Michigan with "non-standard" roadway items is that the group who requested the "fancy" roadway has to pay for and have a crew onsite to fix the roadway when it's ready to be put back together. If you don't have a crew there to put it back together at the end of the day, Public Lighting, MDOT, etc. are just going to throw some cold patch on it. Stamped, colored concrete is far easier to get and far easier to find contractors who know how to do it properly.

Are you volunteering to store the old bricks at your place?
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Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 2082
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.14.135.95
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone know what gives with them having Michigan Ave from Livernois out past Wyoming completed last year, only to be torn up to be "rebuilt" again this summer?

Is this why road projects cost so much? The tearing apart of recently completed roads just to make themselves look busy?
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Kbkav
Member
Username: Kbkav

Post Number: 224
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.31.248
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 10:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mcp001: actually, half the job was completed last summer - the south side of the street. now, mdot is rebuilding the north side of the street.
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Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 2083
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.14.135.95
Posted on Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So what gives with tearing up both sides of the street, and then doing a half-assed job on one half of the road?
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 151
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.251.227.240
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 12:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They tore up and repaved the alleys near me last summer (English Village). They discovered brick pavers under the ashpalt. They were piled in a lot nearby. Needless to say, a couple of neighbors now have nice walkways made of brick pavers and one neighbor is plannig a patio with them. We put in a nice walkway by our side door. Those suckers are incredible, heavy and tough as hell! The alleys in Indian Village are still and are gorgeous.

I'll be there when they tear up the pavers. Can't wait! Got plans for a patio!

Really though this looks like a good deal for Corktown, and with bike lanes too!
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Drm
Member
Username: Drm

Post Number: 932
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.73.53.185
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 12:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

'll be there when they tear up the pavers. Can't wait! Got plans for a patio!


What makes you think MDOT will be giving them away?
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 155
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.251.227.240
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 1:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What do you think they are gonna do with them? They're not gonna pave anything with them that's for sure! Get em while their hot!
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Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1058
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 204.39.225.164
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 2:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Um... They might want to use them on repairs of other brick paver road surfaces (to maintain that authentic look using old materials and to save money) or perhaps sell them.
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Kbkav
Member
Username: Kbkav

Post Number: 226
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.31.248
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 3:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mcp - they tore up both sides of the road for water main replacement pre full-on road work.
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Dialh4hipster
Member
Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1537
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.187.234
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 3:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get em while their hot what?
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Dnvn522
Member
Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 102
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.24.64.25
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 8:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

What makes you think MDOT will be giving them away?



They will be property of the contractor doing the work...not MDOT.
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 157
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 2:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I doubt the state/contractor whatever is gonna do anything with those pavers. Half of them are broken up in the process of pulling them out, so they'd have to separate all the good ones BY HAND from the broken ones. When they redid the alleys near me they sat in huge piles for months on end, until one day all the rubble was gone. It would be nice if the state restored paved roads with them, but I'd bet that when contractors restore brick roads they put new pavers in.

Probably the best way to answer this is to find out how Indian Village maintains their brick alleys and see if they use new pavers or get old ones somehow. Anyone know anybody in the IV association? I know there's a couple Indian Villager's on here.
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Kbkav
Member
Username: Kbkav

Post Number: 228
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.30.112
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 2:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

it's worth noting that maintenance concerns for an alley are much less than those for a state trunk line. apples and oranges when you think of the amount & weight of traffic, length, & number of lanes/roadway width.
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 159
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 2:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kbkav, those bricks are incredibly strong and resilient but still they must do some manitenance on them since they are 100+ years old. I don't think they have to ever dig them up for sewer work. They just redid all the sewers in the neightborhood with robots (seriously)! Minimal digging necessary!
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Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 2084
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.14.135.95
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 11:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanx for the heads up, Kbkav.
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Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1059
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.249.236.100
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The alley behind my house is not brick, but some of the alleys in Indian Village with brick are quite wavy. :-) I wouldn't be surprised if there has be no maintenance with the brick in the alleys. (or maybe it needs it every 50 years, who knows) I do know that there haven't been any projects recently to restore the brick paving in the alleys...
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 168
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.7
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 1:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dougw, I'm sure they rarely have to do anything with them, like everything in Indian Village they are made to last hundreds of years.
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Bvos
Member
Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1377
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.33
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 1:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedog,

The sewer work in your neighborhood was sewer relining. If they had to replace a section of the sewer (which they did behind my house while the sewers were being relined), they have to dig up the ground and physically replace it.

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