  Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 29 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
This is a message from a frequent lurker and sometime participant at detroityes. If I might, I’d like to tap the collective knowledge of this extraordinary virtual community for help on a project that I am working on about Detroit. Here’s my story: I grew up in Detroit in the 1950s and ’60s, left for good in the mid-’70s for college and beyond (currently living in the Boston area after detours via Europe and Washington, DC, an editor and writer by profession). Until recently, I had long assumed that Detroit was safely part of my past; indeed, I barely thought about the place for years. But recently, I have found myself drawn back to the city in my imagination. I’m currently writing a personal history about growing up in Detroit. Basically, it’s a memoir, but with the peculiar twist that it focuses on my experience as a child of some of the great examples of Detroit architecture. Let me cite an example to give you an idea of what I mean: as a child, I regularly went to the dentist at the Fisher Building. I realize now that the building had an enormous impact on me, even though (or, perhaps, especially because) I had absolutely no sense of its architectural importance at the time. So, I’m writing both about the history of the creation of the Fisher Building in the 1920s and about my experience of the building in the ’60s—what it represented to me as a child and why. Besides the Fisher Building, here are some of the other buildings and places that I’m writing about: the Detroit Public Library, Cranbrook, U of D High (where I went to high school), and the Rosedale Park neighborhood. (As you can see, mine is entirely a west side story as I am sure Jjaba would appreciate—and approve of!) I’m interested in my experience of these places because I think it is a way in to what I really want to write about: Detroit as a center of urban culture. When I was growing up, few people I knew thought about Detroit as an important cultural center. I suspect that (with the possible exception of the people on this electronic forum), even fewer do today. Nevertheless, I believe that the institutions—buildings, museums, libraries, schools, churches—created during the city’s boom years (I’m especially interested in the 1910s and ’20s) made up an extraordinary urban fabric of which I was an extremely fortunate beneficiary. It is that experience that I want to capture. Which brings me to the purpose of this post: I’ve gotten to a point in my project where I really need to revisit the places that had meaning for me as a child. So I’m planning a trip back to Detroit, my first in nearly fifteen years, either later this spring or early in the summer. To get the most out of my trip, I want to connect with individuals who have a deep interest in and knowledge of some of the places I’ve mentioned. And while I feel I have a good handle on the secondary literature about the architecture of Detroit and the history of the cultural institutions I’m writing about, I am also looking for advice about relevant archives (for instance, in the Burton Collection at the DPL) that would help me tell the story of these places or help me research the Detroit history of my family. Finally, I would love to find some knowledgeable guides to today’s Detroit, because increasingly I am coming to the conclusion that an important part of my story is to describe what has happened to the cultural world in which I grew up. Well, this has become a very long post, so I’ll stop here for now. I’d be happy to answer any questions and elaborate further on my project. In the meantime, do you have any ideas for this particular Detroit expat? I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 461 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 71.213.227.199 |
Expat, who was your dentist? I used to visit Dr. Lenhard in the Fisher (fourth floor NE) until he retired about 8 years ago. You're right though, the trip to the Fisher made the dentist office a pleasurable event! | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 30 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Mine was Dr. MacBride (long gone by now, I suspect!). The thing that fascinates me about going to the dentist at the Fisher Building was experiencing great architecture without knowing it (i.e., knowing that it was "great architecture")--year after year, routinely. I'm convinced that had a big impact on me--although it's a challenge to describe it! | ||
Corvax Member Username: Corvax Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.186.86.40 |
Expat, I, too, graduated from UD High in the 70's (1974) (and wrote about that era a couple years ago in Highlights in a sort of alumnus "my turn" column that ran for a while). I haven't lived in Detroit permanently since high school but have been back to visit family and for high school reunions (which I'd recommend strongly if you haven't). Given my lack of familiarity with the City these days, i can't help you with your central mission, but i have to share that the sense of place regarding the High remains strong despite the many physical changes that have taken place (new athletic and science facilities, the return of the library we knew to the chapel it was designed as, the remodelling of the Commons, the sandblasting of the blackened exterior under Fr. Shannon's reign). But much remains the same--big things--the stately presence viewed from 7 Mile Rd., the grand entrance--and little things--the deep maroons, golds and browns of the floor tiles and block walls inside (their color intensified in the dark, late nights after Harlequins rehearsals, taking on different tones from those seen during the school days), the mysterious transition down the corridor to the Jesuit residence. I'm sure you'll have your own reactions on your visits (have you been back at all since high school?). Speaking of architecture, you can still have a cold one at Tom's Tavern! corvax | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 225 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.242.218.76 |
I also attended Dr. Lenhard in the Fisher Bldg. Even the upper floor hallways were wide and well done. Visiting the building was, and still is, simply uplifting. | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 31 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Corvax, re: U. of D. High, I have not been back for a long time and havent, for example, seen all the new renovations of recent years. Of course, U. of D. is not quite on the same architectural level as the Fisher Building! And yet, in my project, it is representative of the massive expansion of Catholic Detroit in the 1920s and early '30s. For example, I'm curious about the whole story of the move of the University to the McNichols campus in the 1920s (of which the high school's move to 7 Mile was a part). Anybody know of any sources that tell this story? | ||
Corvax Member Username: Corvax Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.7.12.10 |
Fr. Malcolm Carron, the long-time president of the University, may still be in residence at the High. he'd be a great person to talk to. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 10 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.79.226 |
To my fellow UD alums, I, too, remember, although more recently (class of 92), the wonder of wandering the halls at the High. My earliest memory came when I was a student in the Academy and became lost on the way to gym class. I wondered, "Where the he** is the gym?" Luckily, one of my friends from elementary school had an older brother at the High who pointed me in the right direction. You may also want to check out St. Mary's of Redford church (where I attended elementary school). (I'm sure you're aware of its location, having grown up in Rosedale) I remember vividly sitting in mass and just gazing way up at the ceiling during the entire service. I was also a patient of an ear, nose, and throat doctor in the Fisher building (Dr. Shillot (sic)). My memories were of walking down the main hall in awe of its grand scale. Glad to hear about your project, Expat. Look forward to seeing it on the bookshelves! | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 633 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Better bring some extra cash to do research in the Burton Collection. They charge for just about everything these days. | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 32 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Ron, actually I didn't grow up in Rosedale Park; my grandmother lived there. I grew up south of Schoolcraft and east of Southfield in a far more modest neighborhood. I think for me, Rosedale Park symbolized "the good life," Detroit living at its best. As for St. Mary's, my family went to Our Lady Queen of Hope parish which up until 1966 was a satellite church of St. Mary's. We benefited from the fact that Monsignor Edward Hickey, former chancellor of the archdiocese (and graduate of the Harvard Business School), lived at St. Mary's. He was a serious collector of religious art, some of which found its way to the walls of Queen of Hope. | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.79.232 |
Expat, I remember Monsignor Hickey at St. Mary's...but not until you mentioned him. I, too, grew up in a modest neigborhood, off of 7 mile and southfield (harlow and cambridge to be exact)(my mother still lives in the house I was raised in). I understand your perspective on Rosedale, the same could be said for Grandmont, where most of my friends from elementary school lived. I still live in Detroit, now in the Eastern Market area. I'm sure it will be good for you to make your trek home. Good luck, and let me know if there is anything I can do to assist you. Unfortunately, I am not much of an architectural historian, but any assistance I can lend would be my pleasure. | ||
Kathleen Member Username: Kathleen Post Number: 1260 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.57 |
Just to clarify the fees at the DPL Burton Collection.... Non-residents are charged to use the collection, if the assistance of a librarian is required. For example, if your research is strictly using the city directories that are on the shelves, there is no fee. But if you need books or files brought up from the basement, you have to pay the fee. It's $100/yr for an annual card; or $10 a day. For more information: http://www.detroit.lib.mi.us/b urton/burton_index.htm Expat: Depending on the time of your visit, and your specific needs, I may be able to help out. If you would post your email address, I'll get in touch and we can discuss. | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 33 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Ah Grandmont! As a boy, I had a Detroit News paper route on Rutland that went all the way from where it dead ends a few blocks south of Schoolcraft up to Grand River. I remember the beautiful houses between Schoolcraft and Grand River. Although Rutland was only a few blocks from where I lived, it was like another world. That's what I love about cities: the enormous socio-economic, architectural, cultural variety within a relatively limited space. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 227 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.242.218.76 |
Expat, I attended a class reunion at UDHS a couple of years ago. If you are at all like me, I expect that you'll be pleased with what you find upon your return. It was warm and wonderful to revisit the old and reminisce; and it was heartening to see the new and to know that the UDHS experience is ongoing, adapting, and succeeding in the present. I hope you go back. | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 35 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Neilr, on UDHS "adapting and succeeding in the present," that is definitely my sense from afar. As I have said in a previous post here some time ago, it strikes me as one of the relatively few remaining institutions in the city where individuals from throughout the metropolitan area can come together for a quintessentially urban experience. That was certainly the case when I went there (though the school was not anywhere near as open to black Detroit back then as it is now). But perhaps this is just nostalgia! I would love to hear the perspectives of recent UDHS grads (perhaps you are one). | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 1892 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
Expat - Just finished "Made in Detroit" c: 2005 by Paul Clemens. He is slightly younger than you b. 1973, Catholic and remained in Detroit for a few more years. His book discusses the history of the city, some of the architecture, but mainly "the life" in the COD. Not sure if this type of book is where you're headed, but would suggest at least skimming it and perhaps communicating with the author. He grew up in the NE corner of the city just S of 8 Mile. Hope this helps. | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 36 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.236.64.5 |
Kathleen, I've sent you a message. Sorry for the delay; I wasn't online last night. Let me know if it reaches you. | ||
Madroom Member Username: Madroom Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
expat...seems we've lived the same life, different bldgs,same city. Born and raised here,Mumford grad '67.From '86 'til '98 i lived in Europe (Amsterdam,S.of France,Germany)as an artist and photog. Then I felt the urge to return to Detroit.We searched many places for living space and gallery space.Plus we've still got much research on buildings since publishing a book in December. Check it out maybe you can use some of the material. www.imagesinstone.freeservers. com happy hunting and good luck! | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 37 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.236.64.5 |
Madroom--interesting project; I'm also very interested in your decision to return to Detroit. I'm curious about the experiences of the "Detroit diaspora" and, in particular, that of those individuals like yourself who return. You say you "felt the urge"--but what was it exactly that drew you back? | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 66 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 24.233.62.176 |
I attended Our Lady Queen of Hope on Glendale from '64 to '70 and grew up on Archdale. My Mom and Dad attended St. Mary's for 12 years and both graduated from there. I too had a Detroit News paper route, #35 which was Longacre, Archdale and Southfield south of Schoolcraft to Glendale. I remember the Station Manager being this red face alcoholic dude named Mr. Anderson. Went to Benedictine and Divine Child. I can be found at http://quozl.com/ (Message edited by quozl on April 16, 2006) | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
I grew up in Grandmont. | ||
Pamequus Member Username: Pamequus Post Number: 20 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 158.229.218.204 |
Good Morning. I went to Mercy High School, at first at the old location on Outer Drive and Southfield, the last two years at the new school in Farmington. I grew up in Redford, just north of Six Mile and west of Evergreen. What is it about Detroit that draws us back?? I've been gone since 1975. The lure of Detroit is the reason I lurk and sometimes post here. Marvelous folks with such great information about a spot on this earth that I never have quite gotten out of my system. Just one more thing.....is the Boys Bowl still an annual event??? | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 68 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 24.233.62.176 |
Pamequus: Did you happen to know Suzette or Annette Jacques, Marcy Hammel or any of the Hammel girls while they attended Mercy High? I myself left on June 28, 1974. Came back last year for an extended stay and had the honor of spending a whole day inside St. Mary's of Redford. Sr. Loretta Schroeder, (IHM) gave me the grand tour including Monsignor Hickey's apartment, the bell tower (rang the bells) and various treasures. We took over 1000 photographs. It blew me away that my Uncle's Clinic (Louis J. Gariepy, MD was his partner) on Grand River and Asbury Park was razor wired. My dad and I had a little "home winemaking shop" across the street behind Livingston Pharmacy, went to St. Mary's Bakery for brownies and Dr. Neville took care of my teeth. What draws me back is the happy childhood I had there and the yearning to find someone -ANYONE- from the old neighborhood. I was blow away by the urban blight as I visited all of the old neighborhoods of my extended family that had lived there though my old neighborhood was great. The man who bought our house in '72 (Big Willy) let us tour the old house, grilled burgers in the back and we threw back a few beers. Very weird going into my old bedroom with the dresser still nailed to the floor. We even went behind the furnace where my sister Kathleen and me use to stash stuff and FOUND treasure! Willy let me have it, I took it to Kathleen (she lives in Plymouth) and she FAINTED. I made Florida my home until '93 when I relocated to Houston. I miss Detroit deep in my heart. There is only one Detroit and I am glad and proud to be from there. I am coming up again this summer for another few eeks of fun. | ||
Viziondetroit Member Username: Viziondetroit Post Number: 354 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.176.190 |
I grew up in North Rosedale Park and attended Cooke :-) Proud to be Cookie, lol | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 39 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Thanks to recent posters for their westside memories! Quozl, my paper route was on Rutland--from the deadend south of Glendale all the way to Grand River. I'd be interested in hearing more about your recent tour of St. Mary's and anything you learned about Msgr. Hickey. What I know from my historical researches is that he was a graduate of the Harvard Business School and as chancelor of the Archdiocese was largely responsible for getting it back to solvency in the 1940s (the Archdiocese's building boom in the 1920 brought it close to bankruptcy during the Depression). My understanding is that he was also a pretty serious collector of religious art. Growing up attending Our Lady Queen of Hope, I always assumed that the art on the church's walls was from his collection. | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2341 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
A WHOLE lot of people have passed through that part of Detroit (roughly fullerton to McNichols, greenfield to evergreen). It remains about as well populated as ever (don't let the nasty condition of the commercial strip fool you, check out the residential streets). Quozi, you are braver than I am, I'm still too scared of Sr. Loretta to ask her for the grand tour of St. Marys! Quozi, when I was a kid in the early 70's a guy came to my parents house (near GR and Fenkell) who grew up in it in the 30's-40's. We showed him around and he reminisced. I thought it would be pretty cool if one day when I grew up I would come back to my old house and do the same thing with some new onwer, but the problem is I can't ... my parents stil live there ... maybe one day they will move, but til then when I visit now my kids they play in the same parks and walk the same sidewalks I did growing up. My daughter is now big enough to ride her bike around the block the same as I did (the sidewalks are even now, no elm trre roots tilting them haphazardly like the the olden tymes). sometimes you still CAN go home again ... | ||
Rustic Member Username: Rustic Post Number: 2342 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 130.132.177.245 |
Expat, Msr. Hickey was also influential in the archdioscese reigning in Coughlin's nastiness way back when. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 70 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 24.233.62.176 |
It was his collection. The tour was excellent, I will upload pics for you to check out. Email me at http://quozl.com/contact.html and I will detail what I know. Sr. Loretta has been at St. Mary's of Redford since '66 and is the greatest source of information too. I lived on Archdale between Glendale St and Davison St W. So you remember Sister Stella Maris and Father Conroy? I use to deliver the Detroit News to the Rectory and Convent at the deadend of Longacre by the greenbelt and "Devils Hill". | ||
Royaloakian Member Username: Royaloakian Post Number: 68 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 65.42.23.2 |
Expat - Fr. Carron is no longer at the high, he was at the school on recently for the Greater Good campaign (http://www.uofdjesuit.org/) but now lives at the Jesuit retirement center Colombiere. I know that Mark Gryzbowski, director alumni relations frequently takes alum who haven't been in the school for a while on tours you should call him. He can probably answer your history questions about the school as well. This may help if you haven't read it before. http://www.uofdjesuit.org/jesu it_identity/mission/history/hi story.htm | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 71 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 24.233.62.176 |
Yea Rustic, my wife, a native Houstonian thought I was NUTS. I found Willies name on the Detroit tax record database and sent him a letter to my old home address. The man was pretty cool. We even walked down Archdale and he introduced me to various neighbors. Sister Loretta and me have stayed in touch since my brother Fred died. She also taught many of my cousins and refuses to go to the Mother Convent in Monroe. She is still fiery and I have many candid photographs of her from last summer I will share. Quozl | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 40 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Quozl, I do remember Sister Stella Maris and Fr. Conroy. The former was a formidable leader of the school. Her father was a U.S. Congressman and the person responsible for adding "under God" to the pledge of allegiance (a dubious achievement perhaps). And she was only one of an amazing group of IHMs at the school over the years, including Sister John Michael and Sister Thomas Moore. I was not a fan of Fr. Conroy. He was a replacement for the dynamic Fr. Mackinnon who was the first priest to lead Queen of Hope after it became an independent parish in 1966. When I was at QOH in the late '60s, there was considerable tension between Conroy and the IHMs. I will contact you by email. Looking forward to hearing more. And, yes, Rustic, Msgr. Hickey did play a key role in the reigning in of Fr. Coughlin. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 72 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 24.233.62.176 |
You are right on the money Expat. Looking forward to hearing from you...neighbor. Quozl | ||
Harmonie Member Username: Harmonie Post Number: 569 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 198.109.32.15 |
Expat...I might be able to help also. Send me an email at jpierce@insidedetroit.org | ||
Madroom Member Username: Madroom Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
expat...there's something inherently familiar,about people from certain cities; NY,Chicago,Detroit...wherever you go around the world, there are communities of Detroiters. In LA, even Sydney,Australia, there are Detroit Clubs,formal or informally organized these people at some point hang out together, have annual picnics, just have the need to know where the others are.My email list is loaded with Detroiters around the world. Thank God for the internet, my phone bill would be $1000 a month! In my case,I guess it was the desire to see if this 'thing' I had experienced for 18 years (when it was real,and good) was, real. The sense of community that made Detroit,Detroit. Now, if it still exists,it is so wide-spread, that it exists only by being away from here. Everyone comes home to see if it's here, but,year after year we,they leave for greener pastures,happier hunting grounds and the only time we see each other is during holidays. And then we've had our dose...we're medicated on the memory of Detroit, until the next time. Hope that gives a little insight...been here too long, time to hit the road, if only to fall in love with Detroit again. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3665 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Expat, your high school was built in 1931 after U. of Detroit moved to its campus in 1927. Although seen from W. Seven Mile Rd., the official address of UD HS is 8400 W. Cambridge. The schools date back from 1877. jjaba has been to the grave and home of St. Ignacio de Loyola in Spain. He got around, eh. Rosedale Park, two influences. 1. Don Poindexter. 2. Up with People. That's all jjaba knows from Rosedale Park. He grew up at Northlawn and Schoolcraft, St. Brigids Parish. We had two religions in the neighborhood; Catholics and Publics. For specifics, apanitch@comcast.net. jjaba. | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 41 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
Madroom, thanks for your thoughts. Recently, I find myself thinkikng more and more that there is something real about what I call the "Detroit diaspora." I.e.: perhaps it's useful to think about ex-Detroiters and their connection to Detroit in a similar way to how one thinks about, say, Jews and their connection to Israel, Greek-Americans and their connection to Greece (or, even better, the former Greek communities in Turkey), Armenians to Armenia (and former Armenian communities in Turkey). Oh, I suppose the analogy collapses if one thinks about it too much--but, still, I am more and more convinced (and your message confirms my conviction) that this diaspora, as a social phenomenon, is real. Jjaba, I'm so glad you've contributed to this thread. Although we came from rather different Detroit communities, I have always felt we shared some "family resemblance" in our parallel experiences of Detroit (after all, we are both west siders!). I know the history of U. of D. High reasonably well, although I would appreciate any information that anyone has about the architect of the building. Did you know that the Jesuits were responsible for the first white settlement in what is now Michigan--at Sault St. Marie (I think; I may be mistaken) in the UP? As you say, they came to Detroit in 1877 at the invitation of Bishop Borgess to start a college (he lured them by giving them the then Detroit cathedral). Now, U. of D. Jesuit is one of only two Catholic high schools remaining in the city (the other, Loyola, is also a Jesuit school, founded a few years ago and focused on "at risk" students). Recently, U. of D. announced a $22 million capital campaign designed to raise teacher salaries, increase scholarships, and update the school's technology infrastructure. | ||
65memories Member Username: 65memories Post Number: 253 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.73.58.239 |
Expat... Good Luck on your project. ...I have lived in Rosedale Park the last 28 years, serving as President and Board member over the years with the R.P.I.A. There are a number of threads on this forum over the last couple of years talking about memories of Rosedale and Northwest Detroit in general. Jjaba, Rustic and Bvos contributed heavily to those discussions. Do a forum search to find them. I can help you with the history of Rosedale, if you'd like. Drop me your e-mail. ...Regarding U of D High School. Anyone who can contribute to its Greater Good Campaign should make a donation. Although my sons went to Benedictine and Shrine, I am proud of U of D's commitment to the city. While Mercy left and Catholic Central continues to move with the sprawl (is it just a coincidence that as a neighborhood becomes more diverse, C.C. pulls up roots?), University of Detroit High School has stayed and prospered, continuing to provide a sound, well-rounded education. The school needs to be supported. If I can help you in any way, Expat, please let me know. | ||
Expat Member Username: Expat Post Number: 42 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 24.60.133.101 |
65memories, I would love to talk to you about Rosedale Park. You can reach me by email at: robertahoward@mac.com |
