  Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 641 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Ex-Police Commisioner Spreen (from the late 60's and early 70's) adds his 2 cents worth. Have you read or seen the book? | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 72 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
read it and not impressed | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3588 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
For what??? Detroit never died .... Go Figure!! Black-atcha ..... wouldn't waste money on a comic-book | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 919 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
left me shaking my head at Spreen holding the positions he did around here | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 550 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
Ras, Don't say that, I like comic books. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3940 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
What KILLED Detroit! SEGREGATION, DEMARCATION, XENOPHOBIA, FREEWAYS, SUBURBAN SPRAWL, WHITE FLIGHT, GROWING, BLACK POPULATION, ECOMONIC FLIGHT, BLACK CONTROL OF ALL CITY AND PUBLIC SERVICES, BLACK FLIGHT and FINANCIAL BLACKLASH!!! Who's fault is it. YOU and your generation. | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 58 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.220.68.161 |
Danny, Little rough don't you think....... | ||
Drdetroit Member Username: Drdetroit Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.219.20.60 |
Rasputin- I cant put it any better. PEACE | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 650 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
There has been plenty of blame to go around. Question now is- "What to do about the situation we have here in 2006?" | ||
Spacemonkey Member Username: Spacemonkey Post Number: 13 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 63.102.87.27 |
Henry Ford killed Detroit. He started the city's downfall by offering a $5.00 workday. That brought a mass of uneducated, get-rich-quick minded bottom feeders from all over the U.S. to Detroit. They settled here with a sense of entitlement and now were dealing with their lowly offspring in our society decades later. Both black and white trash. From Detroit to Roseville and back down river. All we can hope is the present detroit Deprssion will send them packing; off to find the next gold rush in some other state. | ||
J_stone Member Username: J_stone Post Number: 290 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.215.68.210 |
Spacemonkey is a buffoon. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 128 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
You don't like what Ex-Police Commissioner Spreen wrote in his book? Write your own fucking book and tell it the way you see it. Then we can have another book about Detroit that we can say mean, hateful things about on DetroitYes and say what a fucking asshole you are! I am so sick and tired of all the nicey-nicey pc horseshit I hear on this site about "Can't we all just get along!" The words don't mean shit. The blacks don't like the whites and the whites don't like the blacks. Then we've got the "rose-colored glasses" crowd that don’t want to say anything negative about Detroit. As if not calling a spade a spade (No pun intended unless you need to have something else to be angry about.) somehow makes it not so! They’re the same ones that say, “Violence! I haven’t run into any violence anywhere in Detroit!! Right!!! The words don't mean shit here or anywhere else. What counts are the results and the results in Detroit are abysmal. There has never been a major city in the history of mankind on this planet that has lost the amount of population that Detroit has lost in the last 20 years through a systematic exit and Chernobyl doesn't count. Why is that? You can say, “What KILLED Detroit! SEGREGATION, DEMARCATION, XENOPHOBIA, FREEWAYS, SUBURBAN SPRAWL, WHITE FLIGHT, GROWING, BLACK POPULATION, ECOMONIC FLIGHT, BLACK CONTROL OF ALL CITY AND PUBLIC SERVICES, BLACK FLIGHT and FINANCIAL BLACKLASH!!! Who's fault is it. YOU and your generation.” Or you can say, “Henry Ford killed Detroit. He started the city's downfall by offering a $5.00 workday. That brought a mass of uneducated, get-rich-quick minded bottom feeders from all over the U.S. to Detroit. They settled here with a sense of entitlement and now were dealing with their lowly offspring in our society decades later. Both black and white trash. From Detroit to Roseville and back down river. All we can hope is the present detroit Deprssion will send them packing; off to find the next gold rush in some other state.” You can say what you want to about what the causes of the decline of the city of Detroit into the cesspool it has become are but the root cause is race and racism. Everything else is a symptom of a deeper problem and that deeper problem is white hatred for blacks and black hatred for whites. There are some fundamental truths about ourselves that we are unwilling to accept both black and white. And, until we come to terms with those shadow or darker parts of ourselves we will continue this slide into oblivion we are intent on carrying ourselves. And, by the way if you don’t think it can’t get worse then just stick around for when the guerilla war turns even more violent which it will. I don’t have any answers just my opinions. And, you know what they say about opinions! I'll be waiting for your book. +<(:-)~ Livedog2 | ||
Fjw718 Member Username: Fjw718 Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 146.95.15.36 |
this thread needs some lithium | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 129 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
If you have any to spare maybe you could share it! If you need some here ya go, you choose:   Livedog2 | ||
J_stone Member Username: J_stone Post Number: 292 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.215.68.210 |
truedat Livedog, truedat. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 652 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Well, I think we all know things are not rosy. I was asking for some solutions guys not a rehash of what's wrong and why. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 138 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Paulmcall, you should have specified what kind of answer you wanted. How can we give you what you want if you don't ask for it. Geeez-o! You can’t always get what you want You can’t always get what you want You can’t always get what you want But if you try sometimes well you might find You get what you need  Livedog2 | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2029 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
Livedog2, you are providing alot of food for thought tonight - here and on other threads. Thanks. Thinking in AZ | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 51 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 70.212.20.184 |
I think that Livedog is fairly close to what is wrong; but I think it has more to do with ignorance than actual hatred. The achievements of the Civil Rights struggle, in terms of defeating "de jure" segregation (segregation by law) are largely nullified by the INSTINCTIVE reflex to revert to DE FACTO segregation (segregation by practice). What this leaves us with are few experiences with those who don't look like us. We then, INSTINCTIVELY, attribute our few encounters with those "other folks" to the group as a whole. (Or worse, we let other people tell us what the "other folks" are like, i.e the media or entertainment undustries). This is essentially the process of "stereotyping." The problem I have with it is the fact that we do this instinctively. The thing that makes humans different from animals is that we don't have to succumb to our instincts. I think, maybe naively, maybe not, that most people of whatever race, base their opinions/beliefs on ignorance, which emanates from a mere lack of interaction with those "other folks." You will see in a person what you are expecting to see; therefore, you can have one negative experience with someone and allow that to confirm your preconception. My belief has been confirmed by observing the practice that we have of dismissing a person we have met of another race (whom we probably like)by saying: "You're not like those 'other' ones." When we do this we are simply saying: "you don't fit my stereotype of what you are supposed to be." We have to realize is that each individual is what makes up the whole of a particular group. For instance, there are white people who exhibit the worst characteristics that white people could exhibit, and vice versa. But that doesn't mean that the entire race is that way. We must start acting like HUMANS, and not let our INSTINCTS control us as animals do. There are wonderful and terrible people of all races. We cannot judge books by their covers. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
How can you doubt the fact that progress can be made with ordeals such as racism when our society has already made vast imporvements? It is cynical to declare that the conundrum is static. Also, to attack racism and societal segregation, one needs to utilize the symptoms to do so. Education, crime, etc. are all issues that may result from racism, however, the only clear and precise manner to correct them is to battle them singularly. Unless of course, someone has a scheme to defeat prejudice in one adroit seige, which gets us back to the initial question... | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 718 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.30.175 |
deputy_mayor, it is ridiculous to isolate and define one cause with respect to analyzing the problem when the causes and definitions relate to one another in such an undeniable association. to think that one aspect of an issue in the forefront in particular is an aspect of interest, and to call it so, apart from others, is to be ignorant to the point of defiance, and that is unacceptable. everything must be evaluated together with each point bearing its own weight. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 5 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
You are very right. I see no way of defeating racism by itself. Do you? I only know that we can chip away at it from the symptoms that it causes. This is how we have achieved what he have achieved so far regarding this problem. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 658 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Geez, I feel like I'm back at Wayne State listening to lectures when I wanted was some answers. WE all know racism is a problem. What might your solution be? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2032 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
I believe some of the solutions are simple: 1. A goal of fathers in every home, sober, protecting & providing for the family and in turn banding together to protect/improve the neighborhood. 2. Abstinence education to reduce the abortion rate as well as # of single parent homes. 3. At-home moms during the years the kids are in school. Need to get out? Volunteer at your kid's school - few kids misbehave while their Mom is on the school grounds. 4. Insistence that the schools deliver excellent students. In Detroit you're already paying top dollar per student. Insist on vouchers, demand appropriate results, and move your kids to a better school if you don't get 'em. Companies thinking about moving to an area check out the neighborhoods. If they see many stable, clean areas where families are thriving, it is a huge plus, since it means workers already there are happy & content with the area including the schools. "If you keep doin' what you're doin', you keep gettin' what you got." | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2034 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
BTW, with neighborhoods like above, everyone except racists would flock to live there, or wish they could. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 140 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Paulmcall you are certainly having a hard time with the agenda on this thread. I'm sorry people are not saying what you want them to say but if you refer to my post on this thread of "Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:13 am:", for a "Pete and re-Pete" of the same answer. +<(:-)~  Livedog2 | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4013 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.154 |
If anyone says that if the last person in Detroit turn off the lights. That might have killed Detroit. If anyone says that the Black-folks have killed Detroit because of their lack of unity in the community. That might have killed Detroit. If anyone says that if white-folks killed Detroit becuase of the FEAR of black-folks. Then they would right in their own minds, but to another person THAT'S A LIE!!! | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4014 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.154 |
If Detroit dies. Then the suburbs would die, too. Therefore all of you white-folks who are now living in your cookie cutter homes, keep and eye out for Detroit. Why? So far the the mayor and city "CLOWNSIL" is getting ready to downsize and increase the rates of the water, gas and electricity. You can take your problems to Grandholm, but she will say HELL NO! (Message edited by danny on April 22, 2006) | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 143 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
It’s race stupid. If you don’t think so you’re stupider than you think. Each generation tries to deal with it in their own way, not the right way, just their way. They just deal with it in a compartmentalized manner. In other words they just deal with it in ways that allow them to not feel the affects of being around people that don’t look like them. They’re not going to deal with it too much because deep down they have a hatred for those that don’t look like them and they have a “fuck you attitude!” They’ll deal with race just enough to be comfortable but with no real change. The worst of the bunch are the so called liberals that smile, have “Negroes for my best friends”, move into Rosedale Park and marry somebody that doesn’t look like them, join the NAACP so they can talk about it at the New Detroit Coalition meetings, hire Jewish (That they use to hate and still do but they know they’re the best lawyers.) lawyers to bring some kind of Civil Rights action in a very indignant manner, send their kids to public school so they can say, “See, I send my kids to school with Negroes.” They don’t “git it” that all of these things that people have been doing for all these years to fight racism doesn’t work in any “real way.” They’re just band aids, medicine and chemotherapy dealing with the symptoms of the problem. It ain’t about law suits, Civil Rights legislation, NAACP membership, New Detroit or any of that horseshit! All we have done is drive racism underground more. At least before we pushed it under the surface we could deal with it effectively because we knew what we were dealing with. But, the “guerrilla warfare” has started in earnest and the gorillas are winning. To wit: A Brother moved from Jackson, Mississippi to Detroit a couple of years ago and he said the racism in Detroit is so acute that everything is colored (No pun intended.) by this cancer. And, he said that in Jackson he knew what he was dealing with and could go about the business of his life but in Detroit he never knew what he was dealing with until he felt the hard, cold steel of the knife going into his back. Here we go with anecdotal evidence of the pervasive nature of racism in Detroit and all over the U.S. It’s just some places hide it better than others. I was doing a photo shoot about lynching and I was particularly taken by one that took place in Marion, Indiana. So, I did what I always did I went down to shoot images of everything that I could find that was there when the lynching took place. To do this I try to do my homework identifying structures, trees, bushes and so on so I can identify the exact location where the lynching took place. Like I said this was Marion, Indiana, north of the Mason-Dixon Line, fought on the side of the North during the Civil War and it happened on August 7, 1930 not so long ago that everyone involved was dead. When I got there I started photographing right away by identifying sites I recognized from old photos. I had some questions about certain things like exactly what location and tree the lynching took place. So, I went about systematically thinking about who in town I might ask for this information. So, I went to the Court House and waited for people that looked old enough to possibly have the information I was looking for. This is when I ran right smack dab in the face of this racism that existed on that day back in 1930. Of the seven (7) people I asked only one was helpful and respectful. The other six (6) all wanted to know why I wanted to know about something that happened so long ago. Two (2) of them accused me of being an outside agitator trying to stir up trouble and give Marion a bad name. All six (6) of them made threats – four (4) veiled and two (2) direct. Within 15 minutes I had a police car pull up and ask me for some ID and wanting to know “Exactly what the hell I was doing stirring up the citizens.” There were many uncomfortable moments in Marion that day but I showed the police my Press ID and told them what I was doing. They put their heads together and discussed things out of my earshot. Then they said to take care of my business and stop harassing the citizens of Marion. So, getting back to Detroit and racism and Urban Blight and the suburbs and blacks and whites and the whole shitty ball-of-wax called racism a serious problem that we haven’t even begun to get our arms around, yet. (He says having a firm grasp on the obvious!) Answers, answers, I don’t have no answers; I don’t have to give you no stinking answers!! We (I) haven’t even begun to define the problem, yet. And, that’s where it’s really going to get sticky in the definition of the problem. There are going to be some truths that people won’t or can’t accept in any traditional manner. So, tighten up your seatbelts because it’s going to be a rough ride for the foreseeable future until we solve our problems of race once and for all. Furthermore, I don’t rule out armed conflict in the end. Maybe the answer is we can’t live together as closely as we do, in which case the solution may involve a Thermadorian Reaction that eliminates one or the other or all of us. Nothing can be ruled out because the problem of race is akin to the problems that resulted in the Christian Crusades against the infidel Muslims. And, if you don't think this kind of stuff happened in Michigan then have I got a surprise for you: http://www.shiawasseehistory.com/lynch.html The ugly face of racism in Marion, Indiana:  Livedog2 | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 78 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.33.56.156 |
Livedog---by your analogy, we should be asking: Who killed New York? Who killed San Francisco? Who killed Boston? Who killed Chicago? etc. etc. etc. But, we don't ask those questions for obvious reasons. We only ask: Who killed Detroit? So---racism is a factor---but not THE factor. ------Spreen's book was poorly written and VERY boring. Not relevant. | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 952 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Detroit isn't Marion IN and I find it somewhat amusing that the page you linked to clearly states "According to the Archives at Tuskegee Institute, between 1882 and 1968, there were 8 lynchings in the State of Michigan. Seven white and one black." | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4020 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 198.111.165.162 |
But a long time ago in the 1920s Marion, IN. Was declared a KKK city with the KKK state until political corruption destroy the KKK reputation into politics in the United States. Blacks and any other ethnic race who lived in those areas were more likely BE KILLED if they broke Jim Crow laws. | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2073 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
Hats off to you, Lilpup - very sharp eye. As they say, "The devil's in the details." Wonder who was lynching those white boys....... | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 146 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
You missed the point! But, that's not surprising since it was my spear!!  Livedog2 | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1032 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 198.111.56.128 |
Johannes Spreen, the author of "Who Killed Detroit", will be at MCC - Center Campus - C-162 (the library) on Wednesday, April 26th, from 6pm - 730pm, to discuss this book. He will be taking audience questions, and there is no charge. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7223 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Discussing 'Who Killed Detroit' at Macomb Community College. What irony. I guess he doesn't want to discuss who killed Detroit in Detroit. I wish I could make it - there should be some interesting discussion and some disgusting comments. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 664 Registered: 05-2004 Posted From: 68.40.119.216 |
Things were pretty well screwed up here before he ever showed up. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4032 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.235 |
Johannes Spreen would problably say to everyone in his lecture. Who killed Detroit? White-folks did when they left out of fear or another race. Who killed Detroit? Black-folks for lack of black unity. Who killed Detroit? The ethnic Mexicans Hispanics for their hiding the the closets and creating their own personal barrios of SW Detroit. Who killed Detroit? The ethnic Arabs both Muslims and Chaldeans for seizing control of all " LIQUOR " stores, supermarkets, dollar stores and collisions shops. Exploiting blacks from out of their consumer confidence skills, letting them live low like the insects they are. And not creating any more different business with the ghettohoods and not contributing the American families and funnel their money not only to their families who are living in their " HOLY DESERT!" but to support terrorism! Who killed Detroit? The Chinese when Vincent Chin was killed in the ghettos of Highland Park. And since they can't get their relatives to mingle with their languages those who speak Mandarin went to Madison Heights and other who speak Cantonese went to Troy. Who killed Detroit? Mayor Coleman A Young, Dennis Archer, Kwame Kilpatrick, The city council. Who killed Detroit? WE DID! WE DID! WE DID!!! WE KILLED DETROIT! | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1162 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 198.30.81.2 |
Danny, you left me breathless. Wow...... ...just wow! |
