Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Detroit residents to pay for trash collection Previous Next
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5780
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 1:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit residents to pay for trash collection mayor announces in budget address

Detroiters will begin paying $25 a month for trash pickup under a budget proposal unveiled by Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick today.

In explaining the plan, Kilpatrick cited other cities such as Southfield and Atlanta that have similar fee-per-service trash pickup programs.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060412/NEW S11/60412005
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1589
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 1:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good to me.

Just make sure that the fees reflect the amount of trash as much as possible. I reuse, recycle, and try not to waste things. I only generate about a kitchen bag every week. I hate subsidizing other's trash.
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Johnnny5
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Username: Johnnny5

Post Number: 208
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 71.227.95.4
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 1:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I understand and share the concerns of Detroiters that there is too much dumping in our city, he said. Today, we have a backlog of more than 300 illegal dumping sites that need to be cleaned up."

Wait until the new proposal takes effect; make that 3000 illegal dumping sites which need cleaned up.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 210
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmeyers, I'm sure it will be by how many cans you have regardless of what's in it. They can't go and weigh everyones trash.

I don't know why Kilpatrick doesn't advocate privatization. This seems like a half-assed attempt to reduce trash costs without upsetting the unions. The $67 million doesn't even cover all the city's costs.
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_sj_
Member
Username: _sj_

Post Number: 1301
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.220.230.150
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they don't pay do they not get trash picked up, thus leading to the same problem.
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Jsmith9423
Member
Username: Jsmith9423

Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 141.211.34.241
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame is the d**n pits! Why do I need to pay for something that should be covered in the +2200 in property tax and +1300 in persnonal income tax that I pay every year!!! No layoffs except for 77 people at COBO, lets add 33 of his friends because they need jobs, allow 911 operaters to continue working who really should be fired because if these people worked in corp. they would had sent the cops out regardless and while were at it let's screw detroiters as best we can, the ones that decided to stay! Dennis Archer please come back and save us. I rather have you "the uncle tom" that everyone claimes he is than this "hiphopper"!!! How do you get a bachelor or master or law degree in anything and not know the basics of how to handle money is beyond me!
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1460
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

This seems like a half-assed attempt to reduce trash costs without upsetting the unions.




How right you are. Why doesn't anybody ever go after the root cause? Treating symptoms never healed anything. Charging people for garbage collection only allows the inefficiencies to continue.

If the solution was "we are charging for garbage collection, and we are laying off 4 layers of ineffectual management, and cutting salaried" then maybe I could support it -- because it is addressing the cause.

However, to me this is just an additional $300 a year in taxes.
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Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1461
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

The mayor also announced the creation of a new effort to fight illegal dumping by adding 33 positions to the Department of Public Works to combat the problem.




To make matters worse, not only do I have to pay for garbage collection while the problem goes unaddressed, but the city is hiring MORE people to run DPW.

Way to go Mr. Mayor. Way to go.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9987
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, as if the property taxes, income taxes, car insurance, home insurance, and water bills aren't enough. Way to fuck your citizens once again Detroit. Your creativity never ceases to amaze me.

I'd be surprised if CC approves this.
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1730
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.233
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If he thought the unions were bad wait until he sees the public outcry this stupid idea generates. Instead of having a few thousand union people pissed at him he'll have some 900,000 residents pissed at him.

Taxes are already too high, Adding another $300 a year to everyone's bill isn't going to make the mayor any friends.

Who's going to collect this fee? How many computers are we going to have to buy to keep track of this fee? How are you going to enforce the collection? How much of this fee will be actual additional revenue after you pay for the additional costs needed for collection and enforcement?
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Dabirch
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Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1462
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wait until he tries to address the unfunded pension obligations.

All of this is peanuts...
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Ilovedetroit
Member
Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2231
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 63.149.5.130
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jsmsith - Archer actually increased the city employee rolls to over 20,000 and increased the city's pension plan obligations by making you vested after 8 years (to cover his appointees) it use to be 10 years. Archer was no Uncle Tom (as you call him) but a dumbass for doing that!

On another note I am not thrilled with 25.00 a month either (on top of everything else I pay) and a cost benefit analysis needs to be done on what privatizing the trash collection would do...I would be curious to see that.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1727
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I watch the address on TV. Currently residents pay 3 mils that translate to about 28 million a year. Cost to run the department over 100 million which means large amounts needs to be subsidized out of the general fund. Out of the budget 87 million goes to pay bonds on the incinerator. The three mils will be removed form your property taxes.

I obviously if these numbers are close to being true there is no way to save money by privatizing because you still have to make the bond payment which is why the department cost so much. Bonds expire in 08/09 budget year then you can talk about privatizing the department but with out the bond payment the department is almost at a breakeven point with the increase in revenue from charging a $75 qrtly fee.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 3963
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.233
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YAYYYY!!!!! Pay Detroiters, Pay! Clean up your mess. Just wait til you see your $25 monthly trash bill. It's going to be a shock.

So far not all Detroit have %25 dollars to clean up their mess from the homes so the city of Detroit fined them more and more until the house get liened.

(Message edited by danny on April 12, 2006)
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Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5781
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not going to pay the fee, but will instead put my trash in Daburch's dumpster.

Problem solved!
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 3964
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.233
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Itsjeff,

As long as you're a Detroiter, you have to clean up or pay up. I'll do my part for a cleaner Detroit.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1728
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Has any one done their math to determine how much more they will be paying. Because it is not a 300 increase you have to subtract the mils you will no longer be paying from the fee.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 212
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

How right you are. Why doesn't anybody ever go after the root cause? Treating symptoms never healed anything. Charging people for garbage collection only allows the inefficiencies to continue.



I'm surprised because Kilpatrick actually mentioned privatizing trash. What I want to know is why the hell hasn't the city transferred Public Lighting to Edison? Are the unions that invincible?
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Merchantgander
Member
Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1729
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

KK talked about partnering with an outside company with public lighting to increase efficiencies. It is not part of the budget but he said it will be addressed this year.

People might want to watch the address before bitching about everything.

P.S. I didnot vote for KK.
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Ilovedetroit
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Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2232
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 63.149.5.130
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 2:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There has to be a good reason for not privtizing...Kilpatrick owes the unions NOTHING. They did not support him for mayor...curious to see what happens down the road with that.
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Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1463
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My math, for my house, has it at an almost dead break even - if they are giving the 3 mills back.

$300 increase, $297 savings.
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Track75
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Username: Track75

Post Number: 2297
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 12.75.20.73
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So the solution is $25/month?

By comparison, Great Lakes Waste privately contracted service runs $14/month for garbage, recycling, yard waste and 1 bulk item per week. I guess the differential is incinerator costs and inefficiencies.

BTW, the break-even point for $25/month vs. 3 mills is a taxable value of $100K (assessed value of $200K+). If your taxable value is less than that, you'll pay more than before. If you're in a more expensive home you'll save money.

Probably not the spin the Mayor wants on this initiative.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 213
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting analysis Track75.

All in all I have to say, on behalf of the DPW workers, that my trash pickup is very clean and reliable. It's one of the better city services.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7170
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.251.22
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This won't get past CC.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1731
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.233
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WOW, If it really includes dropping the mills off the property tax, This won't go anywhere. This will be seen as another way to move the tax off of the wealthy and onto the poor. 3 mills on a $200,000 house is $300. House price / 2 = (SEV). (SEV)/1000 * mill rate = $300. So people with an SEV of $100,000 would see no change in tax rate. People with a house that has an SEV >$100,000 see a tax reduction. People with a home that has an SEV < $100,000 see a tax increase. Wait until the low income activists and council figures this one out.
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1591
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Jsmeyers, I'm sure it will be by how many cans you have regardless of what's in it. They can't go and weigh everyones trash.




You're right (I would never advocate weighing trash unless there was some really good technology and IT infrastructure behind it), but it opens up the possibility that I can share with somebody else...or in the future theire might be a smaller dumpster that will charge a lower fee.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.213.66.148
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The trash collective fee is in lieu of the 3 mills... AND your property values might go up because of the tax reduction. That sounds a lot better for homeowners than tacking another 3 mills onto your bloated tax bills.

Also, he did reference privatizing trash pickup altogether. I don't know all the specifics, but he mentioned something about some bonds that the city is obligated to until 2009. He said until 2009, the cost to privatize trash collection would be nearly even to what it is now. That said, he didn't see the point (and if what he is saying is true, I don't either) of privatizing now. In 2009, the issue will need to be looked at again.

I didn't vote for Kilpatrick either, btw, but this sounds a lot better than what he brought to the table last year...
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 215
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

True Ndavies, they will go crazy. Looks like Kilpatrick is finding way to raise taxes but not explicitly. I have to give him credit for being so adamant against raising taxes. If this was the 1980's and Coleman Young was in office, the income tax would be 5% by now.
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Ilovedetroit
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Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2234
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 63.149.5.130
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm well if my taxes go down and my house value goes up then I am very happy. I am anxious to see all the facts....it was reported before that we were paying 25.00 more a month...it pays to get all the facts. DON'T trust the News or FREEP to report anything.
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1592
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WRT layoffs and union concessions, remember who is on city council, and who they support.
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1733
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.106
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmmm, this may also be a back alley way to hit the unions. You'll have everyone paying the $300 a year that goes explicitly for trash collection. You can then put an initiative on the ballot to either pay $300 to the current union providers or privatize for $200.

The union will definitely lose and the mayor can just shrug and say we're just doing what the voters want us to do.
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 5
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 63.102.87.27
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 3:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tony Soprano moved to Detroit?
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Eastsidechris
Member
Username: Eastsidechris

Post Number: 83
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.32
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Will Paulie Walnuts be in charge of making the collections?
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 450
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trash collection here in Las Vegas is privatized. Home owners pay Republic Services $35.00 a quarter. All trash -- including bulk -- is picked up twice a week. Recycle material is picked up every other week in containers provided to homeowners by Republic.

The service is excellent.

Can't see for the life of me why it wouldn't work in Detroit.
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Meadows
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Username: Meadows

Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 67.77.108.22
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You beat me to it, Ray. Republic does a pretty good job here in Vegas. Cheap rates, bulk and recycling included and the 2X week pick up is great.

$25.00/month seems a ittle steep IMO.
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1honey
Member
Username: 1honey

Post Number: 130
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, let me get this straight. Kilpatrick wants to tax Detroiters an additional $300 per house in Detroit for trash pick-up. Even though we are paying a garbage tax already. He is fuckin' trippin', so that will bring my annual tax around 4,700 and those rich ass people getting NEZ breaks. Damn shame!!! Poorest city in the nation, and we keep getting punked more and more. See what y'all elected. City council should not vote on this, if so, I will sign every petition in America to get these nuts out of office.
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Northend
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Username: Northend

Post Number: 873
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 69.220.232.15
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 6:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ndavies...stupid question, but what does SEV stand for?
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1596
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 7:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

State Equilized Value
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1597
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 7:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

$25.00/month seems a ittle steep IMO.



It is. But that is because the city has to get out from under the incinerator dept in the next few years. After the 2008-2009 FY (I think that is the right year) you might see any number of less expensive alternatives, including privatization.

Everybody should read the adress here:
http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/Ho mePage/2006_2007_Budget_Addres s.htm


quote:

Even though we are paying a garbage tax already.


You're trippin...Didn't you read? The garbage tax is going away.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2724
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 9:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds good in theory, but practice is another matter.

According to the Post office, mail is delivered to about 400,000 houses in Detroit.

The problem for the pay as you go DPW will be in the processes needed to account for this and track payments. Basically, you will need a syatem equivalent to what DWSD has to do the house hold accounting. Then to tranfer this so that the worker knows that these three addresses havent payed their bill so no pick up for you.

What will they use? a Mobile digital ternimal? Daily print outs? How will errors be corrected? will sunsequent runs be provided if you pay your bill late?

Will it be a yearly assessment?

It may cost more than it seems to implement this?
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Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1606
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 9:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It will be paid quarterly. If you don't pay, the trash gets picked up, but eventually you will get a property tax lien.

The DPW never knows (or cares) who pays or not.

The only problems I foresee are with really crappy landlords and with possibly admin errors where somebody never gets a bill or a notice that they are late, and end up having to clear up a lien.
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1054
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 9:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's better than paying for rodent control. I think its a good idea but I don't think the council is going to let this one pass. I see RECALL written all over this one.
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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 145
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.40.176.163
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 10:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is interesting. It's in general a good thing to get people thinking about how much they want to pay for trash for the eventuality that a private competitor can come in with a lower price option (after the incinerator bond that's been pointed out has been paid off).

1honey, don't forget about the 30% reduction off the cost to the poor.

Perhaps the monthly tax bill should come with a map of illegal suburban dumping sites. ;)
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 485
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 10:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The bus I took today had to take a detour down a side street near 6 and John R. I was amazed at the amount of bulk trash in front of the homes. Just deplorable.
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Track75
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Username: Track75

Post Number: 2300
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 12.75.20.177
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 10:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The 3 mills paid as part of the overall property tax bill is tax-deductible. Would the $300 yearly fee be tax-deductible? My intuition says no, but I'm not sure.

If it's not tax-deductible then it's really comparable to $350 - $450 paid via property tax.
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9990
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 11:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

CC will NEVER approve this. It will be fun to see round two of the crazies get up before the CC in protest though. I wonder though, how will they work the race card into this one? I know, the trash trucks are WHITE....that's racist! I will not pay $25 a month for some goddamn WHITE trash truck to pick up trash out of my BLACK trash can.
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Zulu_warrior
Member
Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2726
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 11:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think they will pass it.

Unless there is enough outcry, it will go through.

As the song says....

You can get with this, or you can get with that.
You can get with this, or you can get with that.
You can get with this, or you can get with that.
You can get with this, cause this is about trash.


Garbage truck called Number 9
Going down the Linwood line
If I've paid my trash bill enough
pick it up, Pick it up, PICK IT UP!!!

(zulu gets crazy hype)

Trash on the scene! Keep the city Clean! Pick my trash up, 'cause this is what I mean!

Kwame is King! Kids, Cops, Clean! Were all livin the NEXT Detroit Dream!

Illegal Dumping is Mean! Slumlords should a lein! We all want Detroit to get GREEN!

Blight Bust the Dream! Clean Sweep the Scene! Make Over the City before we all SCREAM!!!

Now you can get with this, or you can get with that.
You can get with this, or you can get with that.
You can get with this, or you can get with that.
You can get with this, cause this is about left over Crap.
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Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 225
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.79.118.106
Posted on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 11:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After reading the address this looks like a good system that covers the real cost of picking up the trash in the city. I'm all for it, but it's too bad bulk pickup isn't going to be worked into the plan.
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1honey
Member
Username: 1honey

Post Number: 131
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're trippin...Didn't you read? The garbage tax is going away.

Didn't you read, I was responding what Itsjeff posted @ 12:51 p.m. You were the only one who had the link to the to the budget address. Which came after I posted what I posted. Yes, I can read!

So, instead of paying $138.00 a year, it will be increased to $300.00. Is that what I am reading?

1honey, don't forget about the 30% reduction off the cost to the poor. But sweetie, what's the income level for that? Hell, I'm poor after paying water, lights, gas, insurance auto/home, property taxes, and etc. etc. lol.
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Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 966
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 1:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I was a kid in Indiana, we had to buy garbage tags and put them on the trash bags. If the bag was tagless, it wasn't picked up. They also instituted curbside recycling pickup along with it.

I thought this system was great. The more garbage you make, the more you pay. By creating less trash and recycling more, you could reduce your garbage bill.

The sad thing about Detroit is that if it isn't included, or your not forced to pay it, there are so many residents who don't care if there's piles of shit in their neighborhood. We always wanted our garbage picked up, it was worth the money. In Detroit, too many would rather save a few bucks and have a heap of stinking nastiness out back then pay to have it hauled off.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.213.66.224
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 2:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu_warrior, that was hilarious.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9992
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 8:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was some damn good material Zulu!
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Jsmith9423
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Username: Jsmith9423

Post Number: 6
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 141.211.34.241
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 9:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excuse me Ilovedetroit,
I supported Dennis Archer - (y'all) the citizens of Detroit called him "an uncle tom" and that he was working for the suburbs. Well look what the f*** Kwame is doing. The same d**n thing. Don't send me a bill for 300.00 until I see a letter stating my taxes have gone down. The city quietly put a school tax on everyone's tax bill a couple of years ago because they "forgot". Oh what if I forget to pay my taxes? I'm tired of the "D" playing "three card molly" with the my tax money. We have a "general fund" which is the equivalent of huge petty cash fund. We have casinos making 1 mill a day, yet we get a about 40 mill a year from them. We have no movie houses, a few chain restuarants, two health clubs, we pay the most in taxes in the state, we are the most racist area in the nation and to top it off, we glorify these dumb-ass rappers as if the were at the last supper passing the potatoes!!! People are standin at this club on 8 mile as if this guy "proof" was killed in Iraq and teh same ones that were standing out there holding a vigile probably don't care about the guy who is in the hopsital in crital condition Detroit get up off you a** and do something besides grinning and cheesing, because when the rich come back don't ask me to march with you, because you didn't want march today, OK!!
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Broken_main
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Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1060
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 9:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jerome, I know what you saying. They still sell those tags in my in-laws city. ut here in Detroit, these lazy asses will just dump all that crappy garbage off on a lot next door, creating a Rat and Roach Condo. As bad as i hate to admit it...this is just the mentality of some of our residents.
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Detbest
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Username: Detbest

Post Number: 85
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.105.255.66
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

This is really just exchanging one tax for another. Putting the semantics aside, its a tax (or fee) whether you pay through property taxes or the quarterly fee. The 3 mill tax levy generates about $28 million per year. The proposed $300 fee will generate about $71 million per year. So in reality this is a tax increase of about $40 million.

Some will pay a little less under the new system, mainly owners of homes valued around $250k and above. But a larger number will likely end up paying more, namely the owners of lower valued homes .

Noone should buy for one second that this will raise property values. As I stated above, the net effect of this is that it increases taxes. Any costs or benefits from this will likely have little impact on property values. Even so, there will probably be more losers than winners since the net effect is a $40 million increase.

I actually think it is not a bad idea. The tax increase notwithstanding, we as citizens clearly know how much we're paying for trash pick-up. It will allow for easier comparisons and analysis with other cities. Also, I don't see much sense in the property tax approach which charges someone more for trash pick-up just because there house is more expensive.

Because it replaces a progressive tax with a flat tax I expect that Ms. Watson and others on CC may end up opposing this.
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Jams
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Username: Jams

Post Number: 3096
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.127.57
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If we choose not to pay, can we choose our own private collection service?
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Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 9993
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 12:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sure you can, as long as you still pay your $25 a month for the city service.
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Jsmyers
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Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1607
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.131.7.68
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 1:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1honey,

The facts were posted multiple times before you posted. I'm sorry you missed it and I'm sorry I was rude.
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Ilovedetroit
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Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2236
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 63.149.5.130
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 2:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now that I have looked into it I am glad to see that the value of my property will go out with the decreased mills...I should save about 40.00 a year - which is not a lot - but a start with mills going down. Yes, I have to pay 25.00 a month for trash collection - but I am happier with that since my house value will go up.
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1honey
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Username: 1honey

Post Number: 135
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 4:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jsmyers, sorry I was so damn made after hearing what Kilpatrick said. Wish that I could pick my house up and move it a few blocks west.

Sorry, I was rude as well.
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Ilovedetroit
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Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2237
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 63.149.5.130
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 4:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The council needs to pass this. Frankly we got to keep the middle class in the city. I hate to seem harsh but the poor are not going anywhere. We need the MC to stay here to fund and grow the city with tax money. We also need to attract the MC to buy our homes that are for sale and to buy the new condos. The CC must past this positive step. Hell even the Detroit News didn't tear it apart for a change.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 231
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.7
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 4:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Also, I don't see much sense in the property tax approach which charges someone more for trash pick-up just because there house is more expensive.



A brilliant point. I still wonder what happens if you have more than one garbage can like some do.
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Metrodetguy
Member
Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2476
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 75.10.19.202
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 9:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vegas residents, please tell us your millage/levy rates before you jump to conclusions (remember that Detroit has very high property tax rates, even if they were reduced by the proposed 3 mils).

This is a very bad deal for the vast majority of (lower and middle class) Detroiters. Kilpatrick cited Atlanta and Southfield as charging a trash fee, but "forgot" to mention their property tax rates are lower than Detroit. This plan will continue to drive away the middle class, in even greater numbers.

The median home price in Detroit is around $63,000. Only homes over the $200,000 range would see a savings under this plan. Everyone else will pay significantly more.

As always, Don't trust "Ilovedetroit's" reporting on anything!
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Erikd
Member
Username: Erikd

Post Number: 578
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.242.214.106
Posted on Thursday, April 13, 2006 - 10:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Zulu with the Black Sheep parody... Very nice.

Uh, Come on...
Uh, Come on...

I love that song.
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Meadows
Member
Username: Meadows

Post Number: 44
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 65.41.214.130
Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Vegas residents, please tell us your millage/levy rates before you jump to conclusions (remember that Detroit has very high property tax rates, even if they were reduced by the proposed 3 mils).




http://trweb.co.clark.nv.us/co unty/TaxRate-DistrictBreakdown 2005-6.htm#208
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Erikd
Member
Username: Erikd

Post Number: 580
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.242.214.106
Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 4:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back to the main topic...

I like the idea of user fees for some city services, such as trash collection.

A fee-based system passes on the cost in a much clearer and equal fashion. Rolling everything into one huge tax bill makes it much easier to hide overpriced services in a big maze of multiple taxes and numerous departments. Charging a fee to provide a service makes the cost vs. benefit very easy to understand for the citizens.

Nobody likes the high taxes and bloated government in Detroit, but it is difficult to build a consensus on what areas should be streamlined or downsized. In a fee-based system, it will be very easy for citizens to demand a lower cost solution for a specific service.

For example, the mayor and City Council don't get much direction from 10,000 calls asking for lower taxes and better services. However, 10,000 callers demanding the same trash collection fee as Southfield or Troy gives our leaders a clear and consistent message that they can easily take action on.

The other benefit to a fee-based system is the tax break for Detroit's remaining middle class residents. The concept of catering to the poor, at the expense of the middle cass and wealthy, is a noble ideal that Detroit has practiced for decades. However, Detroit is surrounded by suburbs that have been very happy to cater to the middle class, and let Detroit keep the poor.

As a result, most of the upper- and middle-class has left Detroit for the suburbs, but the poor still remain in the city that caters to them.

It may seem cold and heartless, but the only way Detroit can stay afloat is by attracting businesses and higher-income residents. Charging everyone the same amount for trash collection is a step in that direction.

Detroit doesn't have to completely ignore the needs of poor people, but we do need to stop pushing middle class residents out of the city with the heavy tax burden.

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