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Detroitman
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Post Number: 955
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Posted From: 216.78.36.165
Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 6:33 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroiters worried by 22% rise in homicides
Other cities across nation show drops

April 14, 2006

BY BEN SCHMITT and AMBER HUNT

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITERS
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006604140365
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Cmubryan
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Post Number: 241
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 8:38 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I hate to be negative but this is so damn frusturating. 12 years ago when the city started it supposed "rennaisance" I never would have thought that 12 years later we would still be where we are today. It is like in over 30 years, we have made no progess.

We are pretty much tied with Los Angeles a city with roughly 3-4 times our population and have more than Chicago, which is more than double our population and has had a huge murder problem as well.
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Merchantgander
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 9:14 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Detroiters worried by 22% rise in homicides




Detroiters should be worried because with this increase in homicides we will have to be more creative and think out of the box when we justify why it was the victims fault they were killed.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 9:58 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No Wonder some prankster had put up and sign that says. " Welcome to Detroit, We hope you that you don't killed!!"
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Lowell
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:20 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't essentially the same report come out this time last year where the number of homicides was soaring over the previous year? Yet, as that article notes, the total for last year was down by 10 in the end.

I'm not trying to diminish the seriousness of this but short range snapshots are not very useful except for alarmist media purposes.

However, given Michigan's and Detroit's unemployment rates and gloomy economic prospects, I would not be surprised to see all crime rates rise. Meanwhile our federal government pours money down the rathole of Iraq to rebuild their schools and infrastructure and support the price of gasoline at $0.40 per gallon. Go figure.
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56packman
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:51 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cmubryan-the city started it's "rennaisanace" in the mid-70's, it's that ugly tall building on Jefferson occupied by the car company that can't understand why they don't rule the world any longer. 12 years ago would be 1994--what significant "thing" happened then?
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Merchantgander
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:57 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't essentially the same report come out this time last year where the number of homicides was soaring over the previous year? Yet, as that article notes, the total for last year was down by 10 in the end.

I'm not trying to diminish the seriousness of this but short range snapshots are not very useful except for alarmist media purposes.





Lowell post like this do diminish the problem Detroit is facing. It is sad that murder has become so common that we have to blame the media for reporting facts. It is sad when we have to justify these murders everytime it happens.

I understand that crime happens everywhere but just because someone was murdered in Troy does make it all right that it happens in Detroit. I know that there are good safe areas of Detroit, I know you can come to Detroit and not be killed but that doesnít make it right when someone in the worst neighborhood of Detroit gets killed. There is only one acceptable number for murders in Detroit and that is zero.

When the chief of police says the number of murders isnít that bad because normally the person that pulls the trigger hits their mark is complete bullshit. I might not have sympathy when a drug dealer gets gunned down but it still doesnít make it right.

Detroiters have become the enablers of crime because we accept it as a part of our daily lives and we have acceptable levels. Here is a good example of what Iím talking about lets take the Superbowl shooter. How many people do you think knew this piece of shit had an illegal gun (Iím making an assumption he didnít obtain the gun through legal means). How many of those people knew him and liked him but never said shit about it. Now how many people hated this guy and knew he had a gun. My guess there were a few dozen people in both groups but the odds are no one did a fucking thing about it because of the mentality of that how we roll in the D, he is just keeping it real, you need a gun to protect yourself and my personal favorite blaming it on the victim.

Until Detroiters decide that this type of thing wonít be tolerated, until Detroiters stop becoming enablers this type of thing will never stop. You can hire 1000 more police officers but the odds are it would drop the murder rate because murders happen after the fact. Detroiters want to change this problem they have to change their mentality. The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one.

I might be an asshole, Iím just glad Iím an asshole with a fucking clue.
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Morena
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:13 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As long as parents stay uninvolved with all aspects of their child's lives, especailly education; As long as men do not accept their fatherly responsiblities; As long as the unions focus more about who's getting raises (even when they themseleves are being paid well already) instead of delivering high quality educational instruction; As long as the racial divide continues; As long as the Mayor talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk ... Detroit will continue suffering!
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River_rat
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Post Number: 99
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:15 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell, please. Stop being an apologist for the unacceptable criminals of this city.

Your statement:
"However, given Michigan's and Detroit's unemployment rates and gloomy economic prospects, I would not be surprised to see all crime rates rise. Meanwhile our federal government pours money down the rathole of Iraq to rebuild their schools and infrastructure and support the price of gasoline at $0.40 per gallon. Go figure."

Unemployment and poverty are no excuse for the lawlessness in Detroit and to try to equate or relate this with the "rathole of Iraq" is pure absurdity. This government has spent $9 trillion on the war against poverty for 40 years with imperceptable results. Crime was rampant in Detroit long before the first Iraq war, let alone this one.

The responsibility lies with the incompetent city government over the last four decades and the electorate who put them in office and will continue to do so. Until Detroit manages the crime problem, it will be a dead city (along with a few hundred of it's residents each year).

the river rat awaits wrath
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Cmubryan
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:18 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Archer became mayor and IMHO people started to think twice about if Detroit was as bad as people thought. Shortly after some significant reinvestment plans solidified-stadiums, casinos, African American Museum, GM's purchase of the Renaissance Center. Granted these events only occured downtown and arguably speaking maybe the only supposed "renaissance" has occured in what some people like to call the "Grand Blvd Loop."

It is true that the talk of "renaissance" has been occuring since the late 1960s! Four years ago, I really thought this was the first real "renaissance" Detroit was seeing but maybe it is just another fake one like what occured in the late 1960s and then again in the late 1970s-early 1980s. Hart Plaza, Civic Center, Renaissance Center, Millender Center, Trapper's Alley, Trolley Plaza they were all supposed to be the catalysts to revive Detroit but in highsight were all failed attempts. None of these projects really spurred the development that would have really helped Detroit's economic fortunes which IMO is the driver of crime, schools and other ailments that Detroit suffers from.
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Illwill
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:46 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One way that all of this media hype will affect Detroit is when big and small businesses are possibly looking to relocate to the city after hearing other good things about the region. The bad ALWAYS out rules the good in Detroit. For example: major retailers and big name stores, tech business etc... This will also affect a student or grad students decision from applying to many of Detroits great learning institutions. This problem goes much deeper than just percentages.
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Bratt
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:49 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was talking to an officer the other day. I said that the DPD could be self funded if the laws of the City were enforced. If more tickets were written...because let me tell you, on my way into work every day, if I was a cop I could write at least 10 tickets.

His response was, yeah if the people actually paid their tickets. He then went on to say that 50% of the drivers in Detroit don't even have licenses, so that is why there isn't a big emphasis on writing tickets. Okay, so does anyone else see a problem with this? Our system is definitely broken...and instead of fixing the problems, they just ignore them.

I know alot of people who won't drive past Eight Mile because they know they will get pulled over. But they drive all day, every day in Detroit because they know that they won't.

I guarantee you that if Detroit would enforce these laws, you would see a drastic decrease in crime. It would get alot of criminals out of the city. Just think, if driving in Detroit was like driving in Eastpointe...the bad boys and girls would move out.

Detroit is a hot mess!
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Lilpup
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Posted From: 69.129.146.186
Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 12:03 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fine, DPD pulls over yet another driver without a license or a suspended license. They go to court. The court system is already overloaded, the jails are crowded, and the person doesn't have any $$ to pay a fine anyway. So then what?
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Swingline
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Posted From: 172.129.99.219
Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 12:18 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Merchant hits the nail when he talks about Detroiters enabling crimes or preventing crime-solving by their silence. Street criminals are not loners who put in 40 hours a week at some job and engage in secret criminal activity at night. No, like most other citizens, they are surrounded by associates, family and friends, all of whom know plenty. I'm not suggesting that this circumstance is unique to Detroiters. The same thing applies to the meth punk boosting cars in Flat Rock.

Also, Bratt states:

quote:

was talking to an officer the other day. I said that the DPD could be self funded if the laws of the City were enforced. If more tickets were written...because let me tell you, on my way into work every day, if I was a cop I could write at least 10 tickets.


If you think an insufficient number of tickets are being written in Detroit, you should spend a few weekday mornings at the 36th District Court and see the thousands of folks responding to their summonses and paying their fines.
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Royce
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:16 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Merchangander, you are an asshole, but you make a good point about Detroiters being enablers to criminal activity. Just last year I went to the African World Festival put on by the Charles H. Wright African American Museum and saw many vendors clearly selling bootleg CDs and tapes. I wondered if the cops knew about this but kept on walking. I rationalized that they had more pressing matters and went about my business, not thinking about calling this crime in myself. So, I too have been an enabler to crime.

I know my example above is small potatoes compared to murder, however, when we as a society overlook the little crimes as not being a problem, it opens the door for the bigger ones. I still believe in Rudy Guilliani's approach when he was mayor of NYC. Aggressively attack the small crimes like panhandling and the big ones occur less often because the citizens know that NO crime will be tolerated.

In Detroit you can still hear people complain when the police enforce a small crime. You'll hear them say something like this, "Don't the cops have bigger crimes to solve than to fine this citizen for selling bootleg CDs or DVDs. He's just trying to feed his family."

Until we as citizens realize that breaking the law is a crime, regardless of its severity, we will continue to allow crime to fester in our communities.
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Johnnny5
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:30 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like to see a city funded firearms training program. Those who pass background checks and the training course will receive a free .38 (they can use all the confiscated weapons as well as the service revolvers from the laid off officers) and a concealed pistol permit. If Detroit's going to act like it's the wild west, the law abiding citizens might as well be able to shoot back.
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Supersport
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:31 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Merchangander, you are an asshole, but you make a good point about Detroiters being enablers to criminal activity.




I'm sitting here wondering if that was a compliment or disrepectin' goin' on.
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Paulmcall
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:39 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A lot of folks missed out on Parenting 101. I think that would solve a lot of problems right there. Short of that, you need civil authorities to provide
enforcement of laws and setting a good example in how they run the government.
You can't have the city return to the Wild West days. I like the idea of checking your guns at the city limits idea.
Insurance, schools, taxes etc. all need to be addresed but if you don't get crime under control you can kiss this city goodby.
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Merchantgander
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 3:53 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I consider it a compliment coming from Royce.
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Johnnny5
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 4:10 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Last year, Detroit had 374 homicides, compared with 384 the year before that. While that ranks among the most in cities across the nation, it's still far lower than the 714 homicides of 1974, when Detroit acquired the nickname Murder City."


In 1974 wasn't Detroit's population still around 1.5 million? With a population of around 900,000 today 374 murders is damn close to the same number of murders when compared to the population. I guess the nickname still fits.

(Message edited by Johnnny5 on April 14, 2006)
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Cmubryan
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 4:19 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Exactly, I advertise this fact all the time how we have half the murders now than 1970s. Most people aren't sharp enough to comeback with the fact that we now have practically half the population!
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Lilpup
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 4:42 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

714 with 1.5 mill pop ~ 48 peeps DOA per 100k

374 with 900,000 pop ~ 42 peeps DOA per 100k

about a 13% decrease since 1974 with your numbers
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Thecarl
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 5:49 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

'Wild West' in city Shootings on a tear as police force shrinks

THE SAGINAW NEWS
Thursday, April 13, 2006

How bad is it?

Bullets have injured 45 people in Saginaw since New Year's Day, a high-caliber sum topping the same period for 2005.

And 2004.

And 2003.

Combined.

That's right: The 45 gunshot victims -- including homicides -- in the 17-square-mile city so far this year top the prior three years' total of 37, police and Saginaw News records show.

The period from Jan. 1 through mid-April is historically predictable and usually slow for shootings, police say and recent records indicate.

There were 13 total shootings in that period in 2005 and 15 in 2004. Bullets so far have killed nine this year, the same number of all gunshot victims in the 2003 period. In the same span in 2002 there were 11 shootings, records show.

Four Saginaw gangs and one in Buena Vista Township fuel almost all of the mayhem, police say. As crime-inducing summer nights near, law enforcement officials project the gunplay will rise, with up to 50 dead by year's end.

Fifty-six officers patrol city streets today. The failure of a Tuesday, May 2, vote on a 6-mill public safety tax -- resulting in a planned 26 police layoffs -- would leave just 30 on the road, Cliff said.

"If I have to cut my street force in half, all bets are off," Cliff said.

"When the drug wars were going on here in the '70s, it appeared to be a different type than the -- I hate to use this term -- punks," McIntyre said. "The other disturbing thing about the shootings is the ages. There haven't been many over 20."

http://www.mlive.com/news/sane ws/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1144 9344649830.xml&coll=9

Prosecutor: Teen tried to kill officer

Saturday, April 08, 2006
THE SAGINAW NEWS

Prosecutors have charged a 13-year-old Saginaw youth with trying to kill a Saginaw police officer Tuesday, claiming the teen pointed a loaded gun at her that prompted another officer to shoot him.

The teen faces charges of assault with intent to commit murder of Officer Diane Ifill and/or Officer Oscar Lopez; felonious assault against Ifill and/or Lopez; carrying a concealed weapon; and two counts of possessing a firearm while committing a felony.

Authorities said the teen held a gun to Ifill's head and vowed to kill her during a scuffle at North Webster and Hayes. Lopez shot the youth once in the abdomen and stopped the scuffle, police said.

The teen, whom The Saginaw News is not naming because he is a juvenile, will face charges as an adult in Saginaw County Circuit Court's Family Division. However, a Family Division judge will decide whether to place the teen in an adult prison or juvenile detention center if a jury convicts him.

The teen will turn 14 at month's end, police said. He is an eighth-grader at Ricker Middle School in Buena Vista Township.

Both officers were responding to reports of a handgun-waving youth wearing a black hooded sweat shirt and yellow T-shirt and walking with two girls, one in a pink jacket and one in gray, authorities said.

Ifill arrived alone at North Webster and Hayes just after 4 p.m. and got out of her car to confront and disarm the teen, who pulled a silver handgun on her, authorities have said.

Lopez arrived three minutes later, authorities said. Within 60 seconds of his arrival, calls went out for reports of shots fired.

Police officials have said the teen threatened to kill Ifill if Lopez approached. After the teen ignored repeated orders from Lopez to drop the gun, Lopez fired a single shot from his gun, they said.

http://www.mlive.com/news/sane ws/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1144 491682241430.xml&coll=9

Another 13-year-old found with loaded gun
Friday, April 07, 2006
THE SAGINAW NEWS

In an all-too-familiar incident, Saginaw police took a loaded handgun from a 13-year-old boy strolling through an East Side neighborhood Thursday night.

The incident, near Wisner and Montgomery about 8:15 p.m., began in a way eerily similar to Tuesday's police shooting of a 13-year-old brandishing a handgun on a West Side street.

"In fact, it was a male and female officer who approached them," said Detective Sgt. Mark Lively. "It was kind of deja vu."

Tuesday, Officer Oscar Lopez shot a teen non-fatally in the abdomen just after 4 p.m. near North Webster and Hayes. Police officials have said the teen had a gun to Officer Diane Ifill's head and threatened to shoot her. Ifill had originally approached the teen and attempted to disarm him, police officials have said. The teen remained hospitalized at Covenant Medical Center this morning.

The proliferation of illegal guns, particularly those that end up in the hands of youngsters, continues to alarm Saginaw police, who investigated two weapons incidents Thursday.

Almost exactly as they had Tuesday, dispatchers Thursday night told police that a resident was reporting two strolling teens passing a gun back and forth -- only this time in an East Side district.

Once arriving, officers patted down two boys and seized a gun from the older youth. The loaded .45-caliber Colt pistol was stuck in the teen's waistband, Lively said.

Officers said the teens claimed they armed themselves for protection because of the recent spike in gun violence and the dwindling ranks of police.

http://www.mlive.com/news/sane ws/index.ssf?/base/news-3/1144 416119229440.xml&coll=9
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Warriorfan
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 6:04 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's only going to get worse, murder rates go up in the Summertime. Everyone is outdoors, congregating together in large groups, lots of festivals and parties and outdoor fuctions going on, plus the heat makes people do crazy things.
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Johnnny5
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 9:49 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^ Where are the Benton Harbor, Muskegon Heights and Flint crime statistics?
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Jerome81
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:02 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who cares. We're talking Detroit. Doesn't matter what happens elsewhere.
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Johnnny5
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 10:08 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was my point.
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Thecarl
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Posted on Friday, April 14, 2006 - 11:53 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

We're talking Detroit. Doesn't matter what happens elsewhere.

That was my point.




it helps to have context. it helps to look at other communities with a similar crisis, and look at their perspectives. if i were diagnosed with xyz-osis, i'd probably want to know more about xyz-osis, and talk to people who have it, and people who are involved in treating it.
one can be enlightened, and pragmatic, and study a problem; but to be dismissive of information that can shed light upon a problem is the definition of ignorance.
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Johnnny5
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Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:15 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

^^^ I totally agree, but I read your post as if it was excusing Detroit's problems by comparing it to Saginaw. There's no denying that other cities have high murder rates as well, and that their problems are often similar to our own. I really think we need to look at other major cities that have seen success in lowering the murder rate, not only ones that have the same issues. Unfortunately Detroit is facing a financial crisis which will be forcing everything to the back burner.

(Message edited by Johnnny5 on April 14, 2006)
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Ray
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Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:38 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The tragedy of all this is that its a self-inflicted crisis. Competent policing and city government would end this overnight.

Wacky Michigan and its bastard step child, the Detroit Metropolitan area, have wreaked 50 years of havoc on themselves, all the while blamming George Bush or the Japanese or any other convenient scapegoat.

<== marvels at how crime plunges in cities around the country and we have yet another great year of auto sales in US, while all the while southeast michigan and its domestic auto industry remain mired in economic, political and sociological shit.
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 2:43 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Flint and Saginaw (both high crime areas) are not metro Detroit.

And, I highly doubt that policing and city government are the biggest barriers in bringing down crime. Detroit has some huge social issues that no amount of cops in the world can solve. I'm not saying that more and more competent police wouldn't help, but the talks of "would end over night" are greatly exaggerated.
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Danny
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Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 10:49 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thus saieth the sign upon ye bridge. " Welcome to Detroit, I hope you survive!"
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Royce
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Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 12:48 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The debate on how best to police Detroit is comparable to the debate on how to raise children. There are vastly different viewpoints on how to do both. With that said, let me just add mine.

I think the dwindling number of police officers in Detroit has affected policing here, and I say this as an understatement. As of the early 90s, there were nearly 5000 police officers in the Detroit ranks. Now, and correct me if I'm wrong, there are only 3500, maybe less.

New York City has something like 45,000 police officers to police a city of eight million. Doing the math, that comes out to one officer for every 178 residents. In Detroit, having a population of 850,000 and 3500 officers, that comes out to one police officer for every 243 residents. Clearly a heavier burden for Detroit police officers to bear.

Also, the closing of police stations has got to have a psychological affect on the areas where these stations closed. What the police are telling the residents is that there's "no one here to protect you," but what they tell the criminals is that "we're not around so you can do what you want to do." The day they closed the eight precinct at Grand River and McNichols, the students at Redford High decided to go and beat up the students at the alternative high school next door. Coincidence?

What Detroit needs in my opinion is a series of police sweeps in certain high crime areas where they search for wanted felonies, close down drug houses, and patrol the area in question for several days. They do this with a large contingent and do it over a week or two period, with police setting up a command center or mini-station(maybe in one of the now abandoned drug houses) manned 24 hours a day for that week or two period.

Then the police do these sweeps in the next near-by area so that the crooks from the previously swept neighborhood don't get a chance to set up shop, while running out the crooks in that one. The sweeps continue until all areas of the city have been swept. Afterwards, the police send a smaller contingent to go back through the areas to see if any illegal activity has started up again.

Detroit needs a stronger police presents. The cops need to be seen and they need to be seen often.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 645
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 2:48 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I fail to se how having more cops will prevent one on one killings that often happen on the spur of the moment and behind closed doors.
Whether it's a drug house or close relatives blasting each other, the cops aren't going to be there to intercede. With guns so handy and a lack of social restraint, people are more likely to settle scores the fast and easy way.
Someone gets pissed or insulted and before you know it a person is laying on the ground. By the time a person cools off, another is cooling off in the morgue.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 138
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 3:12 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry but when the city gov. is ran by morons, progress never can be made.
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Royce
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Username: Royce

Post Number: 1585
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.215.242.201
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 3:27 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Paulmcall, the problem I have with your assessment is that it implies, "there's nothing that can be done about violence in Detroit." Yes, many incidents can't be stopped by police. However, if there is a stronger presence by the police in the neighborhoods, then maybe one less innocent person will be shot because the shooters will only shoot their victims indoors, reducing the number of stray bullets. How about that?
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River_rat
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Username: River_rat

Post Number: 107
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 207.195.240.191
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 6:51 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chitaku says it all,

Sorry but when the city gov. is ran by morons, progress never can be made.

When the city elects a government that will prosecute every crime from littering to murder, warehouses the perps, and runs the perps back in for every parole violation; then crime will go down and Detroit will begin to rise.

Get rid of lenient judges, stop listening to apologists that weep over "poverty and the lack of economic opportunity" as the cause of crime, and the social activists who want to excuse the inexcusable.


the river rat waits for the wrath
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3527
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 9:16 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, no. Paul is saying that policing will do little to reduce homicides. More policing may cut down on other crimes, but murder is a thing that must be primarily attacked from a social standpoint. Policing most definitely helps cut down on a lot of other crimes, but murders, IMO, isn't one of those crimes.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 315
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Saturday, April 15, 2006 - 11:06 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually more police on the streets WILL reduce the number of murders. You are right, the police cannot directly stop you from murdering someone if you really want to. But think about it, most of the people doing the murdering in Detroit are no strangers to breaking the law, these people are criminals. More police on the streets means that the city can arrest and lock up these criminals BEFORE they kill. Drug dealing, car jacking, armed robbery, burglary, you arrest the people who are doing that shit and you will see the murder rate go down because these criminals can't kill people over drugs or bullshit street beefs if they are locked up in prison.

Very rarely do regular law-abiding citizens just decide one day to up and kill someone. The vast majority of murderers have prior criminal records or actively engage in criminal activity. If the police can intervene early on and catch these guys, murders can be prevented.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3531
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 1:12 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good points, and obviously something I hadn't fully thought through in my post. So, how significantly do you think a bolstered police force could pull down the crime of murder? A bolstered police force has to be strong enough fear, but not so forceful as to oppress and cause distrust and desperation. One thing Detroit has going for it, though, is that it has nowhere the number of organized gangs as quite a few other cities (many smaller and some larger).

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