Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Who will save Detroit.. Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 164
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone have a prediction on who or what industry could save Detroit once the car companies get really bad?
Top of pageBottom of page

Spacemonkey
Member
Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 63.102.87.27
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have no clue. But I heard that Geeley Automotive is looking at Detroit to build their US headquarters. Maybe that'd help.
Top of pageBottom of page

Track75
Member
Username: Track75

Post Number: 2310
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 12.75.22.9
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mm
Top of pageBottom of page

Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 165
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IF Geely builds their headquarters here what do you think it can do to help the city?
Top of pageBottom of page

Ron
Member
Username: Ron

Post Number: 46
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.93.101
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had a conversation with a representative of the Detroit Chamber about two weeks ago, and asked him the same question. His response was that 20 years ago, who could have foreseen the impact the internet would have on the economy, and all of the industry it has spawned.

It is a sad fact that the speed with which technology develops makes it virtually impossible to determine 10-20 years in advance what the growth industries could be, particularly if these industries do not even exist yet.

I am of the belief that we must capitalize on our history of entertainment, and tourism. I was surprised to find out that Michigan ranks 9th in the country in terms of tourism, and the metro Detroit area reaps 1/3 of all tourism dollars in the state.

I also think that we could start hosting big-time boxing events, such as those routinely held in Vegas, and make the city more attractive to Hollywood to come and film movies here. This could go a long ways to dispelling some of the sterotypes people have about the city.

While these are not proposals that would relieve us of all our societal ills, I think that every little bit certainly helps.
Top of pageBottom of page

Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 166
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What if we marketed Detroit as a sin city much like Vegas. I mean we can;t rely on the casinos alone. We don't have the weather Vegas has.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1740
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Save Detroit? Don't you mean save the country? GM, Ford and DCX account for 4% of this countries GDP. They account for 11% of US manufacturing. Without the output of these three companies we will be in a depression. They still account for about 50% of all vehicles sold in the country.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mcnamara
Member
Username: Mcnamara

Post Number: 44
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 204.22.230.119
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alticor
Top of pageBottom of page

Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2353
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies pegs it re the auto industry. but no matter WHAT is meant by "Detroit" and no matter what is meant by "save" there ain't nuthin ailing Detroit that hasn't fully infected the whole nation.

IMO nuthin is gonna "save" Detroit. It is what it is. Yay Detroit!
Top of pageBottom of page

Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7191
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I also wonder how many people in the country have health insurance through the Big 3 or tier suppliers. GM currently insures about 1.1 Million people or approximately .5% of the entire country. Add in the other 2 and the suppliers and there is at least a couple percent of the entire country insured through the auto industry.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1588
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.215.242.201
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit is cold most of the time. Maybe if we build some man-made ski hills, we can promote Detroit as a skiing mecca like Colorado. What kind of engineering is needed to build man-made ski hills?

Detroit is a manufacturing town. Manufacturing created the middle class. There aren't too many industries that can replace the paychecks one gets from manufacturing. Relying on foreign companies or transplanted U.S. companies to make products while using cheap labor is killing Detroit, Michigan, and the country. Detroit and Michigan don't have the weather to be a Las Vegas.

We're not a tourist destination, despite the belief that the casinos, with their casiono hotels, will bring in more out-of-towners. It's not going to happen. Casinos won't save Detroit. Maybe skiing will.
Top of pageBottom of page

Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 167
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm telling ya, the next sin city. Maybe De-criminalize weed Ann Arbor style.
Top of pageBottom of page

Track75
Member
Username: Track75

Post Number: 2311
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 12.75.22.9
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies, rustic, if GM and F go bankrupt their production volume doesn't just disappear to be replaced by Toyotas and Kias.

GM and F will still produce vehicles but as restructured post-bankruptcy companies. Uncompetitive brands and models may be eliminated and fewer workers will be employed at all levels but they're not going to stop making F-150s and C/K pickups. With a bit of luck the restructured GM and Ford will be competitive enough to make a bunch of money, regain share (profitably) and help the domestic auto industry reverse its 55 year slide.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2354
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Track75, staying in business is only one option after a B, another is to part out the assets. Who wouldn't luv to get it's hands on F's truck franchise, eh?

Track, how is bankrupcy REVERSING a slide? Isn't it sorta the bottom of the slide? Assuming by slide you are referring to is the erosion of market share, it is inconcievable that a B would do anything to address that. Come-on track you honestly believe that a B is gonna help things in terms of market share? Sure a B might get ridda them pesky pension obligations (by sloughing them off onto the gvt?) and MAYBE some union headaches, but that just makes the domestics more attractive for parting out and who nowadays other than the Chinese and maybe Toyota has the $$$ to buy scrap industries? Is Walmart gonna git in the car biz? Is GE, Exxon-Mobil, IBM, Msft/Intel? nope.
Top of pageBottom of page

Track75
Member
Username: Track75

Post Number: 2312
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 12.75.22.9
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

rustic, I really don't see an asset sale of the automotive operations. There are too many intertwined aspects of the platforms that you it would be tough to neatly carve out one profitable model and sell it. You have common engines, transmissions and other parts.

It also seems counter to the way the big Asians operate. They grow organically.

A bankruptcy gives GM and F a semi-clean sheet on which to create a new company without a lot of the baggage they have now. That by itself isn't a cure, but combined with better, more nimble management they can be smaller but more profitable companies. If they'd gone bankrupt 10 years ago Detroit might be on the rise now.
Top of pageBottom of page

Meadows
Member
Username: Meadows

Post Number: 45
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 67.77.106.176
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I also think that we could start hosting big-time boxing events, such as those routinely held in Vegas, and make the city more attractive to Hollywood to come and film movies here.




I don't believe that tHis is very realistic. The first memory that comes to mind when thinking of (Metro) Detroit as a big time boxing venue is Andrew Golota being pelted by popcorn and pop by the natives at the Palace.

Royce's post is a lot closer to reality IMHO.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 249
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.7
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 6:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroiters.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2355
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

track75, how does B grow their market share? cuz THAT is their slide: market share erosion. You mentioned reversing their slide. How does a B do that? Re pension obligations B simply sloughs that off onto others (like the gummint). It is not at all clear what a B would do to the UAW, post B labor problems would be an absolute disaster assuming the domestics are sincere about staying in the MFG business in the USA. If not, well see below ...

The chinese bought IBM's PC brand and quietly their server biz when no one was looking. The Japanese bought US media conglomerates (disasterously but they bought them anyway). In the IC business the asians have silently absorbed domestic companies (similar to the Lenovo/IBM deal). Chinese service companies buy operations all over the world. It is silly not to think that the Chinese auto biz or maybe Toyota wouldn't do similar stuff assuming that the match was good and the price was right.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2356
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

track75, if on the other hand you imagine the domestics having a SMALLER market share but in more profitable sectors, well then I'll say that that is simply a continuation of their 55 year slide ... (plus who's gonna take on all of that old capacity brand names assts etc assuming the domestics piss it away? are they gonna just let it rust away or sell it for what they can get for it?)

Yay Detroit!
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 434
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 7:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of trucks, here's one email from Forbes today about just that:
Backseat Driver: Carrying a Heavy Burden

Jerry Flint, 04.18.06, 6:00 AM ET

New York - More than half of the passenger cars sold in the United States wear foreign nameplates. General Motors, Ford Motor and American Chrysler still hold the truck side of the business, but the foreigners are aggressively going after this part of the market. And the home team seems to be repeating many of the same mistakes it has made in the past.

Asian carmakers now own more than 40% of the minivan market, sell more than half the small pickups and lead in sales of car-based "crossover" sport utility vehicles. When American auto executives complain about losing sales to other manufacturers, they never mention their own ineptitude in being unable to build a winning small pickup, crossover SUV or minivan.

Let's start with minivans. DaimlerChrysler (nyse: DCX - news - people ), which is still the industry leader, sells minivans under the Chrysler and Dodge banners. GM (nyse: GM - news - people ) divisions Chevy, Pontiac, Buick and Saturn all sell variations of the same minivan. And it's a similar story at Ford (nyse: F - news - people ) and its Mercury dealerships.

Minivan Sales: First Quarter 2006
Company Q1 2006 Sales:

DaimlerChrysler 97,612
Toyota Motor 40,390
Honda Motor 39,204
General Motors 28,384
Kia 17,111
Ford Motor 16,616
Source: Automotive News

Including Nissan (nasdaq: NSANY - news - people ) and Mazda, the U.S. minivan market is good for 250,000 units per quarter. And the Asians are soon likely to exceed their 43% share of this market. Kia now sells more minivans than Ford, and Hyundai, which controls Kia, is getting its own version of Kia's vastly improved second-generation minivan. Nissan spent millions on midcycle revisions of its Quest minivan, which will soon be in showrooms.

Chrysler is fighting hard to protect its minivan business and wisely spent hundreds of millions of dollars to add a fold-flat floor. The company is not too far away from launching its next-generation minivans. In contrast, GM and Ford have never gotten minivans right. Ford may even abandon the minivan completely, though it reportedly has some other kind of people-mover in the works. GM has not said much about its plans, either.

In 20 years, GM and Ford have failed miserably in minivans. Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people ) and Honda Motor (nyse: HMC - news - people ) didn't get it right with their early minivans, but they stayed with the business and eventually brought top-notch vehicles to market.

Big pickups are still a bright spot for Detroit. GM's nameplates include the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, and Ford's figures (below) are for both Ford and Lincoln pickups.

Big Pickup Sales: First Quarter 2006
Company Q1 2006 Sales:

Ford Motor 203,399
General Motors 191,375
DaimlerChrysler 90,386
Toyota Motor 31,825
Nissan 21,277
Source: Automotive News

Of the 538,000 first-quarter sales of big pickups, Toyota and Nissan together currently hold only 10% of the market. Toyota's share will climb next year, as it is introducing a new, bigger pickup and constructing a second factory to build it. Of the domestics, GM is best prepared to deal with this onslaught; this fall it will start rolling out new vehicles. All these developments might put some pressure on Ford and Dodge, but they will not threaten Detroit's dominance--at least not yet.

Small pickups are a different story. Toyota, Nissan and Honda--all with new pickups last year--have won more than half of this market.

Small Pickup Sales: First Quarter 2006
Company Q1 2006 Sales:

Toyota Motor 41,807
General Motors 23,867
Ford Motor 22,378
Nissan 19,824
DaimlerChrysler 19,008
Honda Motor 13,643
Source: Automotive News

Ford's Ranger was the small-pickup leader, but the company let the truck age. I think Ford just gave up the market. In fact, it said it would shut its one small-pickup plant in Minnesota and wouldn't even say it would stay in the business. My guess is that Ford will eventually build a small pickup in another factory.

GM brought out a new small pickup but inexplicably designed it so the company's inline six-cylinder truck engine doesn't fit; the biggest motor available is an inline five-cinder. GM's underpowered and plain-looking little pickup might be acceptable for Thailand--the market originally intended for this design--but not Texas.

What about big SUVs? Detroit still rules here, but fewer people are buying Ford Explorers and Expeditions and Chevy Suburbans. The new and improved GM models coming out over the next few months will steal business from everyone else in this shrinking market.

Crossovers SUVs are another problem for the domestic manufacturers. The Japanese got into this business out of necessity because, years ago, they didn't have big pickups to use as underpinnings for big SUVs. So they played catch-up by building SUVs off passenger-car platforms. While crossovers are not as good for towing or off-roading, they deliver a smoother and quieter ride on paved highways and use less fuel. With today's higher gas prices, crossovers are gaining market share.

Crossover Sales: First Quarter 2006
Company Q1 2006 Sales:

Honda Pilot 33,866
Lexus RX 25,407
Nissan Murano 23,196
Ford Freestyle 16,842
Buick Rendezvous 13,363
Source: Automotive News

The five crossovers listed above are among the top sellers, and all are ahead of their first-quarter 2005 results. Detroit was late getting into this market, and some of its early efforts, such as the Pontiac Aztec, were awful. But the catch-up is underway; both GM and Ford have new models in the works--some that will arrive this fall.

In small SUVs, the Asians also struck first. But Detroit has come back strong with good vehicles.

Small SUV Sales: First Quarter 2006
Company Q1 2006 Sales

Ford Escape 42,268
Toyota RAV4 33,944
Honda CR-V 32,351
Chevy Equinox 22,606
Source: Automotive News

This fight is raging. Toyota's new RAV4 will challenge Ford's Escape for leadership, and Honda will have a new CR-V next fall. Pontiac dealers now have the Torrent, a version of the Chevy Equinox, while the Koreans have several entries in this market. And Chrysler will bring out some smaller Jeeps later this year.

It is clear that the truck market has become quite competitive across all segments. Detroit can no longer count on simply bringing a truck to market and then leaving it unchanged for years.

It Detroit fails in trucks, it will not be because of labor, pension and health care costs. It will be due to plain old incompetence.
Top of pageBottom of page

Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 8:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been of the opinion that Detroit city should start being creative...

(1) with which businesses it attracts... Amazon.com, for example would be a wonderful option for Detroit to attempt. What do we have to offer Amazin.com, you say? Well, office space is far cheaper in Detroit... Secondly, even though they do a lot of second and third party selling, they still require a LARGE warehouse to hold the worlds 'largest store' I don't have exact figures, but I would wager that this would be a DRAMATIC savings for Amazon... once you have an anchor such as amazon, I believe a large parade would follow... Amazon, Google, Yahoo, eBay these are the Internet trend setters...

Creative Socially:
Couldn't Michigan/Detroit lift bans/loosen laws on Marijuana?
It is ABOUT TIME Michigan legalalized Gay Marriage/Domestic Partnerships... Michigan would be the first MAJOR state (and Detroit the first major city) to do this... Think of all the couples who might be more interested in choosing Michigan/Detroit as their place to live? The vast majority of gay couples have no children to send to schools, but still pay taxes...

Creative with Transit...
Get Transit and an OUTPOURING of college grads will move here... There are about 20 of my friends who are interested in moving to detroit... however, that number would be MANY MANY MANY times larger if we had a light rail ala Toronto/Portland... that is the biggest complaint... the college kids I know don't care two licks about "crime" they worry about transit and jobs... (strangely enough, more about transit) 20 somethings in detroit are a GOLDEN oppertunity... like the homosexual community these "kids" still pay taxes, but don't use the schools... a good place to start... Also they would be the KEY demographic for coffee shops, cheaper restaurants, music venues...

STOP SPRAWL... if we enacted a green belt around the tri-county area, STOPPING any further sprawl, it would allow metro detroit to increase in density...

NATIONAL SCHOOLING AND HEALTHCARE...
Maybe for now stick to simply national/regional school tax... If Detroit's schools played on an equal playing field, this would fix one of the other major gaps in Detroit's attractivness...

Do these things, and you will have more (live) bodies on the street... more window shoppers... and the exedous of people evacuating the city at all times would stop... and it would stop fast... look at the migration TO portland...

The riverwalk is a good start... one of the first MAJOR good things that has been done in detroit in a while.. Keep up with the mixed use construction (ala lofts) and we're on our way...

Lastly... who will save detroit? I may be smug... BUT US... we who care and LIVE WORK AND PLAY in the city are making it better and more attractive to others who might live here...

Oh, one more thing... Suburbs and City should share footing the bill for our cultural institutions...

I would appreciate any critical observations to these ideas... and yes, i'm aware ideas like legalized gay marriage are HELLA controversial... but it's things like this that we need to do to succeed as a metro area... do these things I just listed and I don't think anyone would think twice about moving to Detroit... .andy.
Top of pageBottom of page

Exmotowner
Member
Username: Exmotowner

Post Number: 27
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 66.179.93.98
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 9:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anything Detroit can do to bring in business is of course good, but this is my feelings. Being from detroit, every time I mention it people have horror stories to tell. People are just plain afraid of Detroit!!! I mean petrified!!! Until detroit cleans up its streets (and crime) and welcomes people from ALL walks of life it will continue to plunder. I havent been back in a few years but the news I get from my friends (both in the city and suburbs) is just not good!!!

One thing for sure is that the car companies are going to HAVE to be more competive. I used to be a UAW member and in 1984 I was making 12.75 an hour in a heat treat on Tireman and Livernois. Hell I dont even make that after going back to school and becoming a "professional". Sorry guys but Detroit has completely priced its self out of buisness. Clean up the act, and straighten out the industry and detroit will come back, but not as long as the people in this country are scared to death to come there! Just my viewpoint. Thanks for letting me share my view.
Top of pageBottom of page

Darwinism
Member
Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 480
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.220.35.4
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 10:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I want to add to what Andylinn already mentioned above. Bringing new industries to replace old industries will need to be a priority.

There are lots of innovative ideas brewing at the Univ. of Michigan, UD-Mercy, Wayne State and etc. Techtown and Automation Alley are seeing all types of technology and business concepts waiting to shine.

For example, as we have discussed on DetroitYes before, alternative energy is the #1 most promising industry. It is time GM, Ford and DCX embrace alternative energy so that Houston and Texas can stop gouging us time and time again yet still getting away with it. Companies such as ECD Ovonics (http://www.ovonic.com/) and EVT Solutions (http://ecovelectric.com/homepa ge.html) are good examples of what we can look forward to.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ilovedetroit
Member
Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2256
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.40.225.75
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 10:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gov Granholm announced today alternative fuel,ethanol, (3 more plants being built)...that is a good start.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 436
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 10:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

10% ethanol (gasohol) has been around for years. My vehicles suffer some 10% fewer MPG with it. Therefore, I won't buy it. Especially when it sells at the same price as 100% naphtha.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rberlin
Member
Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 516
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 68.76.54.108
Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 11:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

E85 is a good fuel. I just wish people would take the politics out of it. ADM keeps the government giving corn farmers subsidies for growing corn for ethanol production. Problem is there is little, if any, gain from using corn, and if the subsidies ended I would expect people to start using sugar cane, sugar beets or wheat grass which, as Brazil has proven, can drastically reduce a countries dependence on oil.

Also the power loss, or loss of mileage associated with using E85 can be more than made up for by increasing the compression of an engine or adding a supercharge or turbo which love the added stability and higher octane rating of alcohol fuels. Of course this means nothing to 99.98% of drivers, but I like it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 3986
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 10:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who will save Detroit?

1 Recievership
2 Corporate control of all city sevices by means of privatization and regionization.
3 The Ward system
4 Geely Motor Company
5 Suburbs
6 Arabs
7 Hispanics
8 Bengladeshis
9 White-folks
10 Centurians and Tau Cetis alien race from the home planets.
11 Intergalatic trades from various multidimentional universes.

(Message edited by danny on April 19, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Outoftowner
Member
Username: Outoftowner

Post Number: 122
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.223.214.2
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 10:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like the sin city idea. Get more tourists. Legalize prostitution, etc., within the city limits. Give Las Vegas a run for its money by offering what it does and then some. It's cold in the winter, but it's also not as hot during the summer. That, or we could wait for a hand from the Tau Cetis. They sure turned things around in Sector 9.
Top of pageBottom of page

Track75
Member
Username: Track75

Post Number: 2313
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 12.75.18.2
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 10:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

rustic, perhaps I didn't do a very good job of explaining my thoughts about market share post-bankruptcy. I think their share would drop significantly in the near term as they exited unprofitable lines of business. When they got past the initial turmoil GM might be at 15% share vs. 24% now. But that 15% would be generating a lot of cash since it would be primarily highly profitable models at market-driven volumes made in a much leaner cost structure.

With all that cash, and unencumbered by legacy costs, excess capacity, and bad labor policies, they ought to (we hope) be able to develop new models that really appeal to consumers. That's the source of market share growth. It's a bit of a paradox, but I think they have to shrink before they can grow.

The domestics have had so many problems but they've also had successes like the minivan, the SUV craze, full-size pickups, and certain car models like the Corvette, the new Mustang and others. Fortunately, unlike a decade or two ago they are not way behind on initial, 3 or 5 year quality. They are not way behind on plant efficiency. They have the talent to staff a successful car company.

They have the burden of their decades of success that have resulted in a bad labor situation and mediocre management. I think that could change with a bankruptcy but there would have to be radical change from top to bottom, likely imposed by outside creditors who were not afraid to blow up the whole company.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 155
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.13.148.226
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit could use a red light district with safe and regulated prostitution. Detroit did vote to make medical mj 'legal' like Ann Arbor but otherwise pot is only a civil infraction in Ann Arbor (small fine). Making Detroit a smoker's haven with Amsterdam-style coffee shops would be incredible and probably lots harder to pull off than legalizing other vices. There's some argument to make that the Michigan economy loses some money to the legal prostitution trade across the border in Windsor and that Detroit should do what it did to compete with Windsor for casino dollars by giving people the oppurtunity to spend their money on this side of the border. But the Christian moralist voters in Detroit would be strongly opposed. I think downtown could at the very least have a few clustered strip clubs to also compete with what Windsor currently offers.
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 301
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Tomoh, competing with Windsor is going to save Detroit?

Detroit should be celebrating its connection to Windsor/Canada and find better ways to interconnect the two cities vis--vis business, culture, entertainment, communities, etc. Detroit should want to build bridges rather than relying on fences.

Detroit should not try to be Windsor -- Detroit should strive to be an excellent American urban centre and majority stakeholder in the world's largest international metropolis.
Top of pageBottom of page

Outoftowner
Member
Username: Outoftowner

Post Number: 124
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.223.214.2
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Windsor's nice, but I think Detroit should pattern itself after Amsterdam and Las Vegas. Windsor wouldn't even get mentioned if Detroit had a red light district, etc. Seems like everything else has already been tried. Going for more tourist bucks would be the way to go.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 156
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.13.148.226
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andylinn, I think I mostly agree with you although I'm not sure how we can really compete better than anywhere in particular for an Amazon.com warehouse. Now, if we had Airport City... that might be different. For your other points, though, people in this region just need to be educated about progressive ideas, it's my belief that Detroit can be transformed into a new city merely by changing people's impressions of the city within the region.

Who will save Detroit? I think that's the problem, a single industry built Detroit and now is failing the region. If we only look to replace the auto industry with another monolithic industry, we'll simply find ourselves in the same situation up the road. We have limited time to diversity our economy before manufacturing in Michigan is completely kaput. We're trying to make it last a little bit longer but we need to use what time that gives us to really find several new industries.

But to pioneer new high tech industries, we need more brilliant, entrepreneurial people coming out of our universities, including convincing the ones who come out of the University of Michigan to stay in the area. But we also need to venture capital funds to fund their ideas, something the region sorely lacks. That's one reason why places with lots of venture capital like San Francisco and Boston are booming with tech (they also have a ton of college students and very vibrant, urban neighborhoods for young people to live in). There is a ton of money in Oakland County, one of the richest counties in the country. They just aren't investing much of it in new companies at home.

Yes, we need transit, something that completely changes my and other people's likelyhood of living in Portland (I still prefer Detroit). We also need the pedestrian-oriented, mixed-use neighborhoods, the kind that get people to move to a city not for economic reasons but for the lifestyle. We need to produce more college grads who can participate in a new high tech economy and we also need to retain more that we already produce. We need to change public opinion in the suburbs about the city. We need to increase local venture funds, firms who will invest in local companies and keep them in Michigan rather than firms in other regions who will eventually want to pull the companies closer to the source of funding. TechTown is a microcosm that embodies all of these needs and all of the potential.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 157
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.13.148.226
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 12:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upinottawa, call it friendly competition. Each side can constantly one up each other. More casinos, more strippers, more red light. We should certainly work on bridging the two downtowns as one larger entertainment zone. Casinos in Detroit haven't and won't save the city but I think they've certainly helped and will be making even more positive economic impact once the permanent casinos are built, employing thousands more people.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 252
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 1:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd say that once the internal movement of the metro population towards Detroit's core reaches a critical mass, the cities image will start to turn around as the core gains a reputation for being very safe and clean (think 10-20 years). Once that happens it will be much easier for Detroit companies to attract talent from abroad, which will reduce the brain drain and in turn attract new companies and industries.

It's all about the people, the industries and jobs come later. Like I said before, Detroiters will save Detroit. Nothing else.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mpow
Member
Username: Mpow

Post Number: 189
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 200.65.7.64
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 2:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

this from businessweek>

"Detroit emerged as surprising contender when Harmer discovered that there are more 1500 Mandarin-speaking engineers living in the Detroit area. This potentially an enormous asset for a company such as Geely that is trying to learn about the American market, he said. Detroit's global reputation as an automotive center and the fact that other international automakers such as Hyundai, Toyota, and Volkswagen all operate inside the Detroit metroplex also make the region attractive."
Top of pageBottom of page

Collective
Member
Username: Collective

Post Number: 340
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.30.225.206
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 3:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The creativity and innovation of the people of Detroit will save the City of Detroit. Along with tax breaks, walkable streetscapes, mixed-use residential developments in the core city, street musicians and artists, incentives to the film and music industry to locate in Detroit. If you want to see the future take a look at Crain's "20 in their 20's List" in this weeks edition.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 159
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.13.148.226
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 4:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ESD, we're all hoping that we're on the path to a strengthening of the core of the region within the next 10 years but I do think there's still a lot of proactive work that Detroiters need to do to ensure this as well as speed it up. There's wonderful people here but many of them have also already left. The companies aren't coming fast enough, more people need the incentive to take matters into their own hands in creating their own jobs.

Collective, well put. The region can do more to support local artists and musicians. So can the owners of empty storefronts.

Mpow, the number of Mandarin speakers may be even higher when factoring in the 7300 Chinese in Ann Arbor (although not all speak Mandarin) and the numerous Chinese in Windsor, some of whom I know participate in the Detroit workforce.
Top of pageBottom of page

E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 577
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 5:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gotta agree with Eastsidedog and Collective. No silver bullet can save Detroit. Only a lot of hard work. BTW, I don't think Detroit is in such dire straights that it needs "saving." There's a lot of positive stuff here that isn't given as much respect as it deserves. The metro area needs a lot of work, but it's on the right track.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tayshaun22
Member
Username: Tayshaun22

Post Number: 66
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.14.101.116
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 5:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Detroit is cold most of the time. Maybe if we build some man-made ski hills, we can promote Detroit as a skiing mecca like Colorado. What kind of engineering is needed to build man-made ski hills?

We're not a tourist destination, despite the belief that the casinos, with their casiono hotels, will bring in more out-of-towners. It's not going to happen. Casinos won't save Detroit. Maybe skiing will.





I used to think your ideas were wack, but now I see you have had a master plan. We could have kept those cement silos as a ski lodge!
Top of pageBottom of page

Empiredude
Member
Username: Empiredude

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 66.108.102.246
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Im from nyc and here are some ideas

Here are the steps to be successful

1. clean up the street of drugs crime etc,(the city needs to do a better job of that)
2. offer low sale taxes on clothing foods etc, so people will buy more, once you reduce that it should help. ex. (grocery shopping., reduce the tax) and lets say you go out to fast food,retaurant etc, they should introduce a surcharge for the meal, possible 25-50 cents or maybe higher make it up another way,( i think the majority of the pop go out to eat anyway!)
3. advertise to outside states in newspapers, internet etc, (how will anyone know?) put ads in the paper, (city council should do that!) i dont know why it hasnt been done yet
4. offer time limits on when children under 18 are on the street,(ex 11:00 ) thay are the future!
5. enforce traffic violations and fire violations, they bring revenue.
6. offer tax breaks to people who make less than 40,000 a year, married of course(only married) being they have children and you want the future children to remain in detroit.
7. establish a amusement park, offer the companies land were they can build and charge a city and state fee in ticket price.(you want families to come there)

the list goes on and on. just a few!
good luck detroit
Top of pageBottom of page

Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 254
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 19, 2006 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

BTW, I don't think Detroit is in such dire straights that it needs "saving." There's a lot of positive stuff here that isn't given as much respect as it deserves. The metro area needs a lot of work, but it's on the right track.



Damn straight, E_hemingway. Thanks for the positivity!

I've often thought to myself, Detroit really needs me, but do I need Detroit? So far I'm still saying YES. :-)

Tomoh, have patience and look at what happened in the last 10 years, now think about the next 10!

(BTW, I'm listening to the Four Tops, man it's like sonic positivity!)
Top of pageBottom of page

Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2357
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.30.207
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Track75, I agree with your analysis, however in this case B at best represents a point of inflection in their the business trends which are ever and ever downward. the local minima would be in the distant future in the hypothetical case that they bein growing a shell of their former business NOT at the point of the B. Further a smaller market domestic auto industry is LESS important, less culturally significant, makes LESS $$$, sells LESS stuff and employs FEWER people , etc etc ... not a good thing ... MAYBE just MAYBE this smaller entity might make a bit more profit on the much much smaller amount of $$ coming in, but comeon that's it ...

Track75, although a small nimble GM, for example, selling crossover wagons and sedans labelled Chevy, trucks and SUVs labelled GMC and a BMWlike Caddy brand is certainly attractive ... looking over that impressive list of domestic accomplishments you gotta consider this tho. Virtually all of them would have been impossible if the domesics only had a fraction of their market share. SUV craze was based on the domestics pimping up existing truck lines. Hell, the mustang brand still exists cuz ford could let it limp along for a few decades before redoing it (compare that to the Thunderbird or Riveria brands). Chrysler minivans are market leaders not only because of their utility but also because Chrysler makes LOTS and LOTS of them (and had/has a large dealer network all over the country to sel them). Think of it like Lexus, without a mass market line Toyota Lexus wouldn't exist, Lexus couldn't grow as it did lexus would have the cache it had.

anyway back to this thread, ain't nothin gonna "save" "Detroit" ... sadly, "Detroit" ain't in any more trouble than anywhere else ... if nuthin's gonna "save" "silicon valley", if nuthin' saved "US Steel" there is nothin' to "save" "Detroit".
Top of pageBottom of page

Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.40.50.194
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will save Detroit!

Just as soon as my cape finishes in the dryer.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.214.203
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 5:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick DeVos. I mean, he bought Grand Rapids, right? All kidding aside, I think having Roger Penske on our team has shown to be a big plus.

Also, I might get kicked for saying this, but "the suburbs".

Craig DeRoche may be Speaker of the House...
and Craig DeRoche may represent sprawl...
and Craig DeRoche may think I-96 through Novi has nothing to do with I-96 through Detroit...

but...

He's wrong. ;)

Imagine if the suburbs, like Penske, were on our team too. Of course it can be argued that they are, but with what confidence? (I'm not a suburb-hater)

How much outreach are we really willing to undertake? If a 2016 Olympic Bid were between us and another city, which region would sell themself the best in order to win?
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 3996
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.235
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 5:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HAH, Grand Rapids get the 2016 bid for the Olympics.HAHHAAHAHA!!!!!
Top of pageBottom of page

Skamour14
Member
Username: Skamour14

Post Number: 70
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 35.10.217.88
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well spoken danny.. well spoken.....if The Ghettohoods are gonna save Detroit..... whos gonna save Ferris?????
Top of pageBottom of page

Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 305
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 7:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Windsor will save Detroit.

Come join Ontario: we have gun control, free health care, and a government that builds subways (Toronto shouldn't have all the fun).
Top of pageBottom of page

Skamour14
Member
Username: Skamour14

Post Number: 75
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 35.8.131.140
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 9:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

thats what we need here.. and I do believe we have one started... a subway.... now if the city could just run with the finishing touches, we'd start rolling... any thoughts on this???
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 450
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 9:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately for Detroit, the local papers and the financial press have been quite negative this week. The next phase of the downsizing of GM and Ford will be effected during the next two/three years. The population/economy trough might probably happen around 2010. Or will it continue to decline before stabilizing?

For the life of me, I cannot foresee how any mass transit system could have any positive effect on our economy. A factory isn't going to pop up just because of transportation: "The we build it [mass transit, rapid transit, or whatever], prosperity will follow" mentality only helps the construction and the sand and gravel industries.

If that were the case, EVERY city with dismal econometrics like Detroit would be building these systems 24/7.

This lukewarm article-- Metro area lures fewer residents--sheds some light on what might occur.

Thursday, April 20, 2006

But census data analysis shows rate at which people are leaving has slowed; experts fear economic impact.

Brad Heath / The Detroit News


Michigan's faltering economy -- marred by eroding paychecks, rising poverty and a stream of corporate layoffs -- has for years conjured images of thousands more people piling into moving vans bound for, well, anyplace else.

But it's just not so.

In the years since the slump began, the number of people fleeing Metro Detroit for other parts of the country has actually fallen slightly, a Detroit News analysis of federal tax records shows. But the number of people who move here has fallen even more steeply -- by almost 20 percent between 2000 and 2004 -- potentially compounding the region's economic problems.

"This is very serious, because if they don't live here, they don't buy houses here, they don't spend money in our stores, they don't invest in our businesses and they can't go to work for our employers. It's a drain right out the bottom of our economy," said Patrick Anderson, principal of the Anderson Economic Group in East Lansing.

"It's an unambiguously bad sign for Michigan."

It could get worse: Michigan's economy has been in a steady funk since 2001, with unemployment rates among the worst in the nation, but experts cautioned that it could deteriorate fast if the state's struggling automakers can't find a way to turn their operations around. That, in turn, could push people out the door even more rapidly.


Like most of the Midwest, Michigan regularly loses more people to other parts of the country than it gets in return, and those overall losses are getting bigger. The pace at which the Midwest loses residents to other parts of the country now is double what it was in the 1990s, the U.S. Census Bureau concluded in a report to be released today.

Byron Mueller left to run his own pressure-cleaning business in South Florida not long after he graduated from Michigan State University. Two years later, he moved to Phoenix, bought a house and landed a job at a mortgage company. Florida and Arizona are the top destinations for people leaving Metro Detroit.

Then Mueller did something increasingly rare: He moved back.

"It wasn't just people in Phoenix -- even my friends here asked what I was thinking," said Mueller, now 34. "Every time I had a vacation, I found myself coming back to Michigan. All my family's here. A lot of my friends are here."

He moved back last month and landed a job with a mortgage company in Oakland County; he and his girlfriend are scouting a home in Waterford. She's still looking for a job.

"In my business, I can be here or there and do business. I know this isn't the best economy in the country, but I'll make do," Mueller said.

Fewer people are making that return trip. The number who moved to Livingston, Macomb, Oakland and Wayne counties from other parts of the country dropped from nearly 58,000 in 2000 to under 47,000 in 2004, the most recent year for which figures were available. The News' analysis is based on records from the U.S. Internal Revenue Service, which each year tallies the number of filers who move from one county to another. They do not include foreign immigration.

At the same time, the number of people leaving dropped from about 73,000 to about 67,000, or about 9 percent, the IRS figures show.

That's troubling because the people moving out are much more likely to be the young, college-educated workers who economists and state officials have said are critical to attracting new businesses and reviving the region's economy.

They also make more money: Tax records show the average household leaving Metro Detroit between 2003 and 2004 had an income of $52,400; about $3,000 more than the average household that moved in. All told, that and the fact that more people leave than return cost the Metro area more than $500 million in lost income in 2004.

"That's a half-billion dollars a year," Anderson said. "That's a huge amount of money that's not available to buy real estate or invest in businesses. It's lose-lose-lose."


The change is clear in the for-sale signs stacking up in growing numbers on yards across Metro Detroit. "People just aren't transferring here like they used to," Dearborn real estate agent Bob Platte said.

Harder to explain is why fewer people are moving away. Real estate agents said some people are virtually trapped in homes they now can't sell because they've taken out home-equity loans they can't afford to repay. Others simply are reluctant to cut ties with friends and family.

"A lot of people are hedging their bets. They don't want to move away from a place where they have family they can rely on. They don't want to give up their community, their circle of friends," Brookings Institution demographer William Frey said. The fact that more people haven't loaded up moving vans is a reflection that the state's economy hasn't sunk to the depths it reached in the early 1980s, when many families abandoned the area.

State officials and business leaders said they're confident Metro Detroit is turning a corner. While they concede part of the region's population problem is economic, they contend some of it can be fixed by doing more to promote opportunities here to people who live somewhere else.

"A lot of it's perception," said Karen Gagnon, coordinator of Michigan's Cool Cities program, a state-led effort to lure more people and businesses into its cities. "Sure we're climbing an uphill battle, but aren't we known for that? Aren't we known for being scrappers?"

You can reach Brad Heath at (313) 222-2563 or bheath@ detnews.com.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3570
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most cities like Detroit already have rail transit systems. Even sprawl-to-hell Atlanta has a rather small commuter rail system. Rail is not a savior, but it is a major piece of the puzzle that's missing.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 160
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.40.191.146
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cleveland has had commuter rail and also recently built a new line to their airport... Pittsburgh built a subway downtown in the 80s and light rail out to the sprawling suburbs (through mountains)... Minneapolis recently built light rail that goes to their Mall of America of all places (not what you associate with dense urban environment)... those are the cities Detroit has to compete with in the Midwest alone (ok, the 'Burg isn't midwest but it's damn closer than the Twin Cities).
Top of pageBottom of page

Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.209.152.73
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What will save Detroit? In a word, promotion. Anyone who's ever spent five minutes in Oakland County has probably heard the phrase "there's nothing to do in Detroit" ad nauseum. The fact is that it's easier to write off the whole city based on the view from I-75 than to actually explore a little and find out what there is to do. People are lazy, and that's not going to change. What we can do, though, is promote. For example, we could offer inexpensive trips to Detroit for college students with lodging and tickets to events and such. I think West Berlin did something like this in the 1970s and 80s when it was a tiny, walled-in enclave struggling to attract both visitors and permanent residents. While attracting some visitors isn't going to save the city, I think making people (particularly the younger generation) aware that there are things to do here and that it is possible to do them without getting shot could only have a positive effect.
Of course, legal weed wouldn't hurt either.
Top of pageBottom of page

Shave
Member
Username: Shave

Post Number: 1155
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 2:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

GOD Almighty...sadly, no one's calling on Him.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3572
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 3:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The old "church ladies" of Detroit call on Him, everyday. What's your point?
Top of pageBottom of page

Brandonz
Member
Username: Brandonz

Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.40.195.29
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 9:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grassroots indie-pop music?

(Must get some sleep).
Top of pageBottom of page

Ssport
Member
Username: Ssport

Post Number: 18
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After lots of thought, I have decided that I will save Detroit. Now, if only I can find the time in my schedule.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lurker
Member
Username: Lurker

Post Number: 1622
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 65.196.220.198
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 12:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

10,017
Top of pageBottom of page

Cabasse
Member
Username: Cabasse

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 69.133.90.28
Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 11:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

after seeing this thread, i thought about putting the title on a tshirt. something like "who will save detroit?" on the front, with the answer "i will." on the back.

i'm corny.
Top of pageBottom of page

Monahan568
Member
Username: Monahan568

Post Number: 133
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 68.42.173.130
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 1:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'm definately not saving Detroit by moving there next month.... (Cue the Jaws music) ;)
Top of pageBottom of page

Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2057
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 2:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LY, the last 2 sentences in the article you posted contained an unfortunate slip: " "Sure we're climbing an uphill battle, but aren't we known for that? Aren't we known for being scrappers?"

Oops.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3577
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 2:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course, you know that the word 'scrapper' has two meanings, right?
Top of pageBottom of page

Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2058
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 4:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes Lmich, but keep her away from Lee Plaza anyway.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3581
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 5:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too late. lol

Really, Detroit better be known for its scrappers. Anyone who can strip the rest of the Lee Plaza roof, as quick as whoever did it, deserves some kind of award, and then an appropriate fine and/or jail sentence. lol Only in Detroit can someone get away with stripping the roof of a prominent city high-rise, and have nearly no one bat an eye. I propose the DPD set up a sting where they have someone offer "scrapper of the year" awards in various categories, and see who's stupid enough to show up. :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjw
Member
Username: Jjw

Post Number: 77
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.33.56.156
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 8:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How will Detroit be saved?
1. Invest more heavily in education.
2. Offer free drug clinic programs and enforce it instead of prison sentences.
3. Invest in job training.
4. Insist on convenient mass-transit to allow folks to get to their jobs.
5. Create an atmosphere of hope and promote that idea thoughout the metro area.
6. Capitalize on mass-transit by having the equipment built locally by the "Big 3".
7. Consolidate all the little burbs into larger functioning systems to eliminate government spending (for example: Oakland County School System, Wayne County School System, Macomb County Fire Department, etc.)
8. Promote imigration. It does help!
9. Clean up those streets and neighborhoods.
10. Stronger links with Windsor and Canada.

Once the national news gets hold of these ideas, opinions of Detroit will gradually improve. But, it will not happen immediately so don't hold your breath. And... I must continue to insist, as a former resident and frequent visitor, the most negative things I hear about Detroit come from Detroiters and the metro area----not the national news.
Baltimore started this process back in the 60s. Are we there yet??? No---but we've come along way baby----and it can happen in Detroit also but it will take awhile.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 163
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 216.80.4.87
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 11:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bearinabox, free rides to Detroit for college students... how about some busses to take carless UMich students to downtown on the weekend?
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 478
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 12:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"How will Detroit be saved?
1. Invest more heavily in education.
2. Offer free drug clinic programs and enforce it instead of prison sentences.
3. Invest in job training.
4. Insist on convenient mass-transit to allow folks to get to their jobs.
6. Capitalize on mass-transit by having the equipment built locally by the "Big 3".
7. Consolidate all the little burbs into larger functioning systems to eliminate government spending (for example: Oakland County School System, Wayne County School System, Macomb County Fire Department, etc.)
9. Clean up those streets and neighborhoods."

As long as Metro Detroit (especially the mother of all poster children--the city) has its entitlement mindset, many businesses will not even consider locating here. Detroit is already way too "invested." [BTW, this term is a euphemism for "tax-and-spend" used by big spenders of taxpayers' money.] And businesses pay steep taxes, all kinds of taxes.

There is tremendous waste in Metro Detroit's K-12 schools and in Michigan's colleges and universities--incompetence, salaries out of line at all levels, etc. It's easy for prospective businessmen to access the facts about the costs and benefits from education when they compare communities and decide where to locate their firms.

These dismal facts about education are out there for all to see and judge. Every few days there's yet another article or editorial about these problems in the local papers. Money will not help in education. It hasn't before, after all the other times this gimmick was played. Education costs are three times higher than the costs in 1960 on a constant-dollar basis. In 1960, the vast majority of Detroiters graduated and Detroit's functional illiteracy rate wasn't some 60% as today.

I won't even bother to rehash the mass/rapid transit BS. What good is having expensive transportation options when there are fewer and fewer places to work and the communities are going broke? If there really were jobs, people wanting to work would see to it that they got there. If someone lives too far away--move closer. This ain't rocket science.

And people can help by cleaning their own streets.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 22, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4011
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.154
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 1:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To do that WE NEED RECIVERSHIP! That's what the suburbs want! And The Ghettoman and my street prophet friends don't like.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1592
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 75.9.241.144
Posted on Saturday, April 22, 2006 - 7:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Two ideas to save the city: a public works program or a Marshall Plan.

If Chrysler went to Washingonton and got a bail-out, why not Detroit itself. Never hurts to ask.
Top of pageBottom of page

Leyland
Member
Username: Leyland

Post Number: 68
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.74.209.4
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 4:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Music.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 502
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 4:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marshall Plan? Both of the Gs--Granholm and Gettelfinger--launched that lead balloon before but found no takers. Easter came and went, and still no resurrection of it occurred.

But sure, Royce, carry on. Maybe your begging might just turn the tide.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 23, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1078
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 7:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernois...your post 478 almost made me think you were someone else. I must agree that 8 ways to save the city are pretty much in line with my own mindset.

BTW...8 comes after 9. Are you a DPS alumni??? lol
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 505
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 7:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I meant to delete some of those in the "quoted" list. I probably should have pulled a few others. So maybe you should congratulate the author: Jjw's post 77. Actually, I disagree on most of them.

Public education should do better with what money it already overspends. Fire incompetent teachers, open up the teaching field to retired professionals who might even work gratis, etc.

President Bush der Elder offered to teach school for nothing after WWII, but the teacher's union where he wanted to teach wouldn't allow it. You, especially, would know that the unions in Detroit wouldn't want others entering their turf...

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 23, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1080
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 7:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ooops..didn't see Jjw's post first.
Top of pageBottom of page

Broken_main
Member
Username: Broken_main

Post Number: 1081
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 7:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the DPS should evaluate all of there staff. I have had multiple run ins with my daughters principal on the performance and quality of their teachers. I come from a family of teachers and hear what should be done to make the public schools more accountable including getting rid of teachers that are just there for a paycheck.

i think that the teachers should be tested first on there skills before any of our students should be. My daughter has one teacher that i respect. It is her science teacher and she really pushes her students to the max. There are no gimmes in her class. My daughter is a straight A&B student(at least she was until the last card marking) and she works hard to get a good grade in this science class.
Top of pageBottom of page

Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 740
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.231.189.137
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 8:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It has got to be education (that saves detroit), but that can be a very long process. If there really is no teacher evaluation in DPS, than that is pathetic. Many districts, including here in Brighton, have evaluation processes, though once the teacher has tenure they seem to go away...

While the education overhaul takes place, the other largest obstacle will be clearing the city of crime, especially the violent crime and drug problem.

Jobs follow education. But, Detroit MUST continue to attract firms such as Compuware and (hopefully) Rock Financial, both non-auto related firms. Detroit can build on the super bowl success in luring visitors and conventions, which pump up city revenue, fill the streets and hotels, restuarants, and some increase in downtown shopping. Hopefully, the visitors can see the potential in Detroit and begin investing. It is good to see that out-state folks are realizing Detroit's potential (Peebles from Florida, and Ferchill from Cleveland come to mind)...

maintaining a base population will also be essential...Detroit needs to continue the rise in downtown residents throughout other Detroit neighborhoods...

The comign years should certainly be interesting in detroit, as the revitilization process is obviously well under way compared to just 10 years ago
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 506
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 8:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're fortunate having a competent math/science teacher. It's not a secret, but also isn't highly publicized, that only around 25% of US public school math/science teachers have any significant formal training in college in math/science. They're the lesser of the evils, as they are essentially drafted to teach those subjects.

For example, a very tiny percentage of physics teachers know that subject--the most difficult teaching slot to fill.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 23, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jjw
Member
Username: Jjw

Post Number: 80
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.33.56.156
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 8:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally agree with Liver's analysis of the schools. When I noted "invest more heavily in education", i did not mean financially. Parents have to install those values in their children. Also, there surely must be waste in the beuracracy but I bet the waste is throughout the metro area--not just the city. Don't necessarily blame the teachers--they are the ones holding the fort down. Instead, look at other personal who receive a pay check and do not work with children. I had shitty teachers growing up but I worked through it because my parents would snap me one if I talked bad about a teacher. I still say that much waste could be eliminated with the merger of all the systems in one county into one system. But I know that hits a sore spot in SE Michigan.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1596
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.209.162.226
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Motorcitymayor, education, jobs, and an increase in the population base will improve Detroit. That's a given, but how do you do these things? Your answers are too general. What are the steps that are needed to improve education? How do you attract companies to Detroit to higher its citizens? How do you attract people to move here? Anybody can say they want to see the schools improve, but how exactly? Can you be more specific.

BTW, for those of you who don't like my Marshall Plan, then let's get the mayor to go to Lansing and ask the legislature to lower the sales tax just within the city of Detroit. This would definitely create more interest in shopping in Detroit since consumers could save money on purchases they make in Detroit. Retail businesses would want to locate here instead of outside the city.

I mean who would it hurt? The rich suburbs already have the Lion's share of most retail businesses. I am sure they wouldn't all jump ship to come to Detroit.
Top of pageBottom of page

Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 745
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.231.189.137
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce-

Education-
The debate between public schools in detroit and charter schools in detroit will continue, but I would support the investment of charter schools in Detroit. It is clear that the charter schools generally offer a better education than the DPS system. DPS must consolidate and renovate buildings to become more efficient, and there must be stricter guidelines on teacher evaluations. School safety must be addresed in detroit.... However, there needs to be a way to educate the PARENTS of these children, for it is the parents who have the ultimate responsibility of raising decent children. Some sort of campaign needs to be set up to educate adult Detroiters.... Will all of the different non-profit foundations and businesses looking to help in the community, it seems that this could be done with a mass effort of many different groups to pull this off.

Communication through Lansing and within city government must improve as well. I know that these are generalizations as well, but in some cases it IS that simple. City Council must be held accountable and action must be taken when comments like those of Barbara Rose Collins threaten to ruin any advancement.



Population Base- Continue to offer the NEZ tax breaks throughout Detroit. The claim that 70% of those that take advantage of the plan are already detroit residents may be true, but there are also others moving into the homes or apartments of the relocating citizens. Downtown detroit's population has risen from around 2,000 to 7,000 since 2000. The riverfront is increasing population, and will continue to do so. SW Detroit's is still growing as well. Lowering property taxes is essential in bringing back families, as is tearing down the drug houses and the abandoned buildings. This is where commmunication between residents and DPD is key.

Continue offering tax breaks for businesses to relocate here, and gradually reduce and expire the income tax.

The city must cut through the red-tape and beurocracy and become more efficient, which will save money. The city MUST become more strict on those with outstanding tickets, citations, etc. and must be more strict on blight, litter, and other tickets. This is $$$$, which can then be invested in the schools and police force, or help to offset the lowering of taxes. Also, offer other potential breaks to the businesses if they hire city residents....( a la the casinos)

Create a downtown neighborhood community between business owners that promote shopping, eating, and "playing" in Detroit. Have businesses allocate funds for downtown cleanups, etc. This can be done with minimal financial support from the city, and could see in increase in revenue in terms of taxes on hotels and businneses that would be more likely to thrive in a cleaner downtown. I do like your idea of lowering the sales tax in detroit however.

One tax I would advocate in the city, is a tax on surface parking lots in downtown detroit...

Clearly, a mass transit plan of some sort needs to be worked out between the city, suburbs, and state, and I believe that something eventually will happen there.

City leadership must improve...I was a Hendrix supporter, but I recognize the mayor Kilpatrick does love Detroit, and I do believe that he is aware of many of the problems here, and has ideas on how to fix them, but he needs to do a mass reorganization of city government (and that doesnt necessarily mean dramatic downsizes).

thats enough rambling for tonite i suppose....
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 671
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.220.37
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The intersting thing about the question is that it reflects the region's culture of passivity. Who will save us? It implies a helpless, incapable population.

The people who will save Michigan are the "drivers and enablers" who unfortunately don't want to live here because from their perspective, the quality of life is horrible.

The "drivers and enablers" are the highly educated, highly aggressive corporate executives, venture capitalists, investment bankers, entreprenuers and creative class knowledge workers. These are the people who make it happen. They are very selective about where they live and work, and the places they choose to live usually boom. Their idea of quality of life is, "Can I get sushi nearby when I leave the office at 1:00 am?"

You'll find battalions of them in places like New York, Chicago and Silicon Valley. They like diversity over security, parks over backyards, compeition over friendship. They don't want to be in the fucking subdivision bowling leauge. In fact, they don't want to be in the fucking subdivision at all.

You may not like these people, but without them we've got a region consisting of 4.5 million sad-sack under-educated, under-driven middle and working class office and factory workers, walking around in a daze wondering who will save them.

The only conceivable thing we can do in Southeast Michigan to attract this group is to have a dynamic, livable center city. If Detroit can be rehabilitated great. If it can't, then one has to be built from scratch in the suburbs, possibly around a nucleus of the Ferndale-Royal Oak- Birmingham corridor.
Top of pageBottom of page

Chitaku
Member
Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 180
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 12:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you serious Ray?
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 673
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.220.37
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 1:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm dead serious. I've spent half my life in major cities living and working with these people. To this day, I spend half my time in Silicon Valley. It's painfully, painfully clear what our problem is.

I'll tell you another painful thing... there are a lot of companies in the Valley that have former Michigan folks as founders or execs. Nothing in the world prevented these people from creating these companies in Michigan, except for the fact that 90% of them think it's an awful place to live. And they're right. It sucks compared to Chicago or New York or the Bay Area.

Don't take my word for it. Ask the legion of U of M and MSU grads running for the state line after graduation each year.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 511
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 1:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Another thing to consider is that Michigan is subsidizing the other 49 states when those graduates from Michigan are educated on our dime, but many of them will never work here. The major SE Michigan problem is its entitlement mindset, where many living here are always wanting others to overpay them for doing as little as possible. Of course, this includes welfare, where people are essentially paid simply because they exist...
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 674
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.220.37
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 1:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The thing that makes me mad: It doesn't have to be this way. The country is filled with example after example of interesting, sophisticated built environments. Why do we have to wallow in shit like Big Beaver Road in Troy, where I am condemned to work because our suburan Detroit employees don't want to move to Detroit or even fucking downtown Birmingham because they might have to walk a block from the parking structure to the front door of our office.

Really, if I couldn't go back to SF 10 days each month, I would shoot myself.
Top of pageBottom of page

Royce
Member
Username: Royce

Post Number: 1597
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 69.209.162.226
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 1:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray, just 10 days in San Fran and life is worth living? Must be a hell of a place.
Top of pageBottom of page

Swingline
Member
Username: Swingline

Post Number: 463
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 172.162.65.205
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 2:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One of Ray's comments:

quote:

Why do we have to wallow in shit like Big Beaver Road in Troy, where I am condemned to work because our suburan Detroit employees don't want to move to Detroit or even fucking downtown Birmingham because they might have to walk a block from the parking structure to the front door of our office.


Amen to the aversion to walking. Corporate management facilitates this mindset. It leads directly to the worst kind of sprawl.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 273
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 2:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's see, it seems to me that when employees work in a nice downtown, they tend to take longer lunches and run errands on their lunch hours. But when kept captive in a car-dependent isolated suburban work environment they tend to eat lunch at their desks while they work. It not hard to see why suburban office complexes are so popular with management.

I think most office workers would rather work in a nice downtown office building near amenities they can walk to, but I think this rarely enters into the minds of most corporate management. Karmanos on the other hand is proud to have his offices in the city where his employees can enjoy what downtown offers and actually be part of a community. It seems that if companies want to attract the best and brightest they really need to focus on the work environment, not just the pay scale.
Top of pageBottom of page

Pam
Member
Username: Pam

Post Number: 170
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 4.229.12.67
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 7:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Other states do have a lot of things Michigan does not: hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, water shortages, wild fires, etc. Maybe we need an ad campaign to attract business on the Weather Channel or the National Geographic channel? "Cancel your earthquake insurance and save- move to Michigan"!
Top of pageBottom of page

Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2090
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 10:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good point, Pam - you can add flood insurance to the list. AZ is similar to MI in this respect, and when cheap air conditioning tamed the climate for the masses, AZ was/is on its way to becoming another Los Angeles. Great for business, bad for those against growth.

Michigan (and, frankly, Detroit) are blessed with lots that folks want - many waterfronts, "mild" weather, and infrastructure already in place.

When I worked in the Book Building in the '70's, downtown was great - despite "murder capital" tags and all that - Hudsons was open, Book Cadillac (then known as Sheraton Cadillac) was open, and most storefronts downtown were doing OK. Downhill was slow, and uphill is naturally so - but Detroit can rise again. Most on these threads will happily tell you I'm no expert :-) but I have hope for the great COD and trust there are enough enterprising citizens (and others) who will bring it back to what it was - and then some. In terms of what was there, there never was a greater place. It could happen again.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 676
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.220.37
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 2:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Royce, you have a point! Unfortunately, to me, it's not the SF is so great (although it is pretty nice), its' that living in suburban Detroit is so damn difficult. I want to scream. It this mind numbing sterile sprawl.

Look, I love Michigan and Detroit even though I complain about it. It's my hometown. I want it to be better. But the gap between here and the leading centers is just astounding. Sometimes when I'm driving home from the airport, I think, "how could it be so fucked up?" Like, you would think market forces and media influence would drive Southeast Michigan to at least the mainstream. But it's like it's own special little psychotic world of unemployment, homicide, dilapidated roads, economic crisis, sprawl and racial tension.

As for corporations, all I can say is the management of our business would kill to work downtown Birmingham. It's our employees that are staunchly opposed. They want free open air parking. They do not want to have any extra delay in getting to work. The 5-8 minuntes extra to drive to downtown birmingham is unacceptable. Whatever ammenities may exist in a quality, walkalbe urban environment are of no interest to these people. We could ram the decision down their throats, but it's a battle we just don't have the stomach for. Good employees have lots of choices and you need to cater to them or lose them.
Top of pageBottom of page

7milekid
Member
Username: 7milekid

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 164.76.205.164
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 8:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Genral Motors will save Detroit, when I become CEO that is. Probably within 5 years.
Top of pageBottom of page

Tomoh
Member
Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 166
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.148.60.142
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 11:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People in my company were strongly opposed to moving to a more suburban office park-ish location when we moved to bigger digs. It probably depends on the sector of employees as to what kind of environment they prefer. In my case, they were mostly younger, high tech creative class types. I also think people who may be lukewarm to the idea of working in an urban center often change their minds once they work in one and see how it's better than working in a sterile office park. Unfortunately, not enough folks in the region are given the chance to experience it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 286
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, April 26, 2006 - 5:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

They want free open air parking. They do not want to have any extra delay in getting to work. The 5-8 minuntes extra to drive to downtown birmingham is unacceptable. Whatever ammenities may exist in a quality, walkalbe urban environment are of no interest to these people. We could ram the decision down their throats, but it's a battle we just don't have the stomach for. Good employees have lots of choices and you need to cater to them or lose them.




Goddamn that's bleak. This is just depressing. People would rather work in sprawlville than Birmingham. It's like people are anti-civilization. It's almost anti-human.

It's too bad. We don't build our environment for people anymore. We build it for cars. How totally fucking depressing. :-(
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 683
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.220.37
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 2:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedog,

I really think I'm going to resign, and start my own company in downtown Birmingham or maybe downtown Detroit.
Top of pageBottom of page

Eastsidedog
Member
Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 287
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.7
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 6:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray, Please do! Please do! Just locate in civilization please!

Civilization: Desperately in Need of Humans.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jdp000109
Member
Username: Jdp000109

Post Number: 35
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 69.245.91.232
Posted on Monday, May 01, 2006 - 10:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bet you i can save it

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.