  Dsmith Member Username: Dsmith Post Number: 102 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 68.41.202.23 |
Reported by 'Mojo in the Morning' on 95.5. They said it happened at the "Triple C" bar in Northwest Detroit. RIP if confirmed. | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1201 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.144.83.123 |
I have heard from a few different sources. I cannot confirm details, but they said it happened at an after hours club, and was execution style. | ||
Woodward Member Username: Woodward Post Number: 8 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 207.91.250.131 |
Reported on FOX 2 at 7:30... argument inside Triple C (off Gratiot/8 mile) leads to gunshots. Proof and another guy were shot and killed at 4:30 this morning. Police are looking for Bizarre, as well, for questioning. | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 465 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34 |
This should be in the news on WDIV, WXYZ and so on later this afternoon and evening. | ||
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys Post Number: 356 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.209.163.15 |
RIP Proof You'll be missed | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 117 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
execution style? | ||
Treez4brkfst Member Username: Treez4brkfst Post Number: 113 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.21.61.1 |
I cannot find a link for this story on local newsites as well as hip hop boards. Can I get some linkage to validate? | ||
Mikefive Member Username: Mikefive Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 136.181.195.56 |
http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_lo cal_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_1 5924_4612600,00.html | ||
Iseries840 Member Username: Iseries840 Post Number: 187 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 12.31.43.194 |
Why are all these rappers getting shot? This kind of thing doesnt happen to Smooth Jazz artists. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 992 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
"gun battle between the sights and the dirtbombs leaves one dead, three wounded." edit: seriously though, that sucks, people getting shot and all (Message edited by gravitymachine on April 11, 2006) | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1723 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.42.172.120 |
Well obviously he deserved it because he opened his mouth and got into an argument. I believe this fits in Super_D rule No. 5 of the streets “don’t write checks your ass can’t cash”. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.63.232.195 |
Yeah, I wonder what he did to get himself shot like that. I am sure it was his own fault and not because Detroit is a crime-ridden hellhole. I wonder if anyone called 911 when it happened? Oh, thats right, they would have thought it was a prank anyway. Eminem can't catch a break lately, first he gets divorced and then his best man is shot dead. Next thing you know Bizzare will gain all the weight back he lost on "Celebrity Fit Club." OH THE HUMANITY!!!! | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 447 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.151.166.68 |
Merchant, your sarcasm is heard loud and clear. But sadly, if Proof died arising out of a music related beef, the reality of his death is that right now there are certainly thousands of hip hop culture adherents in Detroit who fully believe that what befell him is a reasonable outcome for someone who lives and plays in a world where the "respect" matters above all. For years Proof has been an active participant in various rap battle arguments/beefs the kinds of which the hip hop world treats with the same amount of urgency as much of the developed world treated the Cold War a generation ago. Dozens of artists and their associates have died because of these situations and nothing seems to change. But I guess if the level of respect is affected, everything is OK. | ||
Everyman Member Username: Everyman Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 24.136.14.239 |
actually perfectgentleman, they got through to 911, but there was 5 minutes of who's-on-first style "where's the proof" banter | ||
Daveg725 Member Username: Daveg725 Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 66.84.209.156 |
wow--insensitivity running high around these parts. Obie Trice gets shot driving, now Proof--sad days. | ||
Harmonie Member Username: Harmonie Post Number: 567 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 198.109.32.15 |
gravitymachine, Sights vs. Dirtbombs...the Sights are going down I mean I love them but Bobby, Keith and Eddie probably weigh 150 put together. How bout White Stripes vs. VonBondies? Oh...wait. All joking aside when you add alcohol to arguments violence is much more likely to happen...and though it happens more frequently in certain circles it can, and does, happen everywhere. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 993 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
true, but its a pretty safe bet that at hipster garage rock parties no one is carryin'(guns)....if only because they couldn't fit em in their pants edit: syntax (Message edited by gravitymachine on April 11, 2006) | ||
Treez4brkfst Member Username: Treez4brkfst Post Number: 114 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.21.61.1 |
First Dilla, now Proof, 2 totally different situations but loses nonetheless. I wonder if dude was dirty of just a vic? Niggaz in the streets is starvin' and murderous to boot. This is the 2nd person in Em's circle to get shot this year. I dont believe in coincidences or luck so somthing's up, wonder what? | ||
Sabio007 Member Username: Sabio007 Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 216.106.93.62 |
well word is that a rap war is brewing in detroit. last year, a well known Detroit rapper stated on the radio that anyone trying to come up in the rap game from Detroit would be "snuffed" out. the rapper stating this was a well known affiliate of Eminem and D-12. Those trying to come up in the rap game in Detroit are probably not too happy having their opportunities to prosper being controlled by another local rapper. First Obie was shot and now Proof and Bizarre. Its going to be a bloody summer in the D IMO. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1025 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
"...there are certainly thousands of hip hop culture adherents in Detroit who fully believe that what befell him is a reasonable outcome for someone who lives and plays in a world where the "respect" matters above all..." Yeah, right. "Respect" = EGO, that's all. Me, me, me! It's all about MEEEEEEE!!!!!!! Tiresome crap. | ||
Everydayislikesunday Member Username: Everydayislikesunday Post Number: 234 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.41.153.99 |
I havent seen an article that says that Bizarre was shot, or even with Proof. Did I miss something? | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 693 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.21.62.206 |
If you go looking for trouble, you'll find it. | ||
Robtruth Member Username: Robtruth Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 4.229.60.75 |
Biz is in Georgia where he lives. Seems he was not at the Triple C when Mr. Holton was attacked. Tossing a thought at Gravitymachine: Different levels of treatment exist all the time. Whattaabout the 8 (eight) men who are shot stuffed dead in trunks in Ontario. They're all part of some dope smoking beer swilling biker gang. Inside sources say the killings are a result of a meth deal gone bad. Violence is violence. The media chooses who will be remembered and in what way for the large part. Example: why is the young girl thought to be murdered in Aruba still rating coverage? Is her life somehow more important than the dozens of women killed/missing that are not named Holloway? All life is valuable; some of us living just dont see it that way. Peace and blessings to the Holton family. Whatever happened, a son/brother/cousin/nephew is dead. The family deserves respect in this time of their loss. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 87 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Sometimes, even when you ain't lookin for trouble you find it, or it finds you!  Livedog2 | ||
Motorkitty Member Username: Motorkitty Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 69.136.148.56 |
2 children are fatherless. RIP Proof | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 128 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
This is crazy. I was in an afterhours bar last winter and saw him about to get in a fight with one of the guys that ran the place. I had no idea who he was at the time, but learned later on. This shit has to stop. RIP. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 694 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
"Not looking for trouble" would have meant being at home, behaving like the adult father of two kids, rather than at some "after hours" joint "living the life" at 4:30 in the fucking morning. I could never justify a murder, but when you make your bed, it is yours in which to lay. | ||
Eastside Member Username: Eastside Post Number: 838 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.246.10.58 |
"Not looking for trouble" would have meant being at home, behaving like the adult father of two kids, rather than at some "after hours" joint "living the life" at 4:30 in the fucking morning." ...exactly what I thought. | ||
Drdetroit Member Username: Drdetroit Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.249.45.103 |
Merchant- IT IS TOTALLY SICK FOR SOMEONE TO SAY THAT "OBVIOUSLY HE DESERVED IT "!!!! WHO IN THE HELL RAISED YOU???? | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.221.79.82 |
Since violence is part of the currency in which some of these rappers deal, let them suffer the consequences. And before anyone jumps up to tell me that it's really just an act, a front put on to sell CDs and show tickets, let's keep in mind two factors: One, some of them are not acting, and Two, does a boy of thirteen grasp that it's an act? Some of these jackasses actually embrace the whole state of mind and the lifestyle. Not to mention that, if it IS an act, that means the rapper is a ****ing phony. And, don't get me started on the whole "you gotta gimme my respect" thing, as though respect is something that one owns, or is somehow due by birthright. You walk around with your little designer undies showing, scratching your nuts in public, and we should respect you. Yeah, O.K. (And did you ever notice that every time you hear the phrase, "I'm a grown-ass man," it's coming out of the mouth of a childish, total jerk-off?) To hell with these ass-clowns. As far as I'm concerned, they can all blow each other to little "bling" covered pieces. Contributing more violence-- even if it's "just an act"-- to a culture already much too violent, just to make money... Yeah, I really respect that. These knuckle-dragging egotists want to pretend that they're Tony Montana or Billy the Kid? Fine. Have fun, tell yourself that you're a big shot, die young. The fabric of humanity will not be even slightly frayed by your early departure. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
So, are these the family values necessary to grow and nurture a family? Is this the way you build community? Are these the kinds of institutions that will last for years after we are gone and be proud of? Is this the way you re-build Detroit? If you want to see the embodiment of family values, community and an institution you can be proud of just go to the southwest corner of Canfield and St. Aubin and think about what it took to build that structure! That's where my heritage grew from!! I used that as an example because I speak from personal experience. If you don't like that example then create your own!!! Livedog2 | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.221.79.82 |
Oh yeah, and I have noticed that the two words most often heard in rap are, by a long shot, "I" and "me." | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1194 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
Look at all the noobs! RIP Proof. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 89 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
What the hell is a "noobs"? Livedog2 | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1724 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.42.172.120 |
It is obvious that you didn’t receive your PHD in understanding sarcasm. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 32 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 67.63.232.195 |
DrDetroit - Merchant was being sarcastic because many of the victims of crime in Detroit mentioned on this message board are blamed for their own demise because "they did something to deserve it." A good example was the posts related to the girl who was shot and killed during Super Bowl week, there were many here who felt that she must have done something to "deserve it." Of course this is a tragic situation, although I agree that someone with 2 kids shouldn't be out until 4:30 AM hanging out in a place that apparently had a history of trouble and incidents of illegal activity. Music and "art" should be a unifying experience, not about "battles" that spill out into the street and end in violence and murder. | ||
Superduperman Member Username: Superduperman Post Number: 79 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.242.221.36 |
crabs in a bucket.... | ||
Ddaydave Member Username: Ddaydave Post Number: 374 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 67.149.185.244 |
Hanging at a blind pig is trouble period . Your dealing with a lot of shady people at an illegal place and the police aren`t called untill someones wounded or killed. | ||
Drdetroit Member Username: Drdetroit Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.249.45.103 |
Apology @ merchant from the village. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 994 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
they sure do, but there is a big difference between getting your butt kicked and getting dead. my point had little to do with who is "chosen" to be memorialized and who is not. (Message edited by gravitymachine on April 11, 2006) | ||
Treez4brkfst Member Username: Treez4brkfst Post Number: 115 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.21.61.1 |
Anybody talkin that: "rapper lifestyle", "chicken's come home to roost", and "married not hanging out" shit is just hating. Dude was an architect of Detroit Hip Hop and Hate It or Love It that entailed being in the community aka the streets. From what I've observed,he was trying to break up a fight! And we all know how that usually goes! I know that from a lifetime living here, that this can be a beautiful place in the light and deathly after dark! I think this was some "black male violence" shit and not some "hip-hop" shit. | ||
Robtruth Member Username: Robtruth Post Number: 9 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 4.229.45.233 |
Your point seemed to be that at "hipster garage rock parties" there are no guns present. The party described seems to be of a particular persuasion and bent. So if there is any alcohol being sold at the garage party it can be called a "blind pig" and I hope no one runs into misfortune at 4:30am like Mr. Holton did. | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1034 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.49.95.12 |
Where's my Colt 45 to dump on the grave? Bling bling! | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 5771 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
Matt, when I go you can pour some on mine. "Some for me, some for my homos." | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3956 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.177 |
Resquiat In Pace, Troop. You took Marshall Mathers to the top and beyond. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 996 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
indeed. however, you are taking what I wrote about garage rock band parties FAR to seriously. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 695 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
"'married not hanging out' shit is just hating." -Treez4brkfst ------------------------------ ------------------- Oh, believe me... I hang out...I'm just not hangin' at afterhours joints away from my wife and kids at 4:30 AM. That may be part and parcel of being "The Architect of Detroit Rap", but with a family, a man needs to prioritize, whoever he is. Maybe I'm being 'holier than thou', but again, go lookin'...and you'll find it. | ||
Woodward Member Username: Woodward Post Number: 9 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.167.120.148 |
They said on Fox 2 this morning that police were looking for him because he might have information that led to the suspects. They didn't say whether or not he was at the club. By the way, how do you spell the name of this place? I guessed "Triple C" , but I've seen "CCC" , and "C3" in news articles. | ||
Woodward Member Username: Woodward Post Number: 10 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.167.120.148 |
Hold up: from the News "Contrary to earlier rumors and reports, D-12 member Bizarre was not involved in the incident in Detroit last night," Interscope said. "He was at home in Atlanta, Georgia." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060411/U PDATE/604110426 I should know better than to quote TV news as fact... | ||
Blessyouboys Member Username: Blessyouboys Post Number: 357 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.209.129.252 |
The subtleties of racism found in this thread are disgusting. Proof was a genuine talent whose contribution to, whatever you make it, will be missed. Don’t “reap what you sow” this shit from atop your privileges. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 696 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.76.202.10 |
"The subtleties of racism found in this thread are disgusting." -Blessyouboys ------------------------------ ------------------- Not being there for your kids when they wake up in the morning is more so. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 90 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Why do you think reconstruction is over?  Livedog2 | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 449 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 172.151.166.68 |
Proof definitely was a huge talent. It's very much a shame that it will only be properly recognized posthumously. It was cool that he didn't seem to feel the need to waste all his time rapping about cars, hoes and bling. He showed an admirable respect for other forms of music and music history. On the other hand, I'm not sure how positive it was for him to absolutely wear out the term "niggaz" on a lot of his songs. A provacative artist at the very least. Anyway, R.I.P. | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1202 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.47.194.247 |
He was also down to earth. He had one bodyguard, and would arrive at clubs with the crowd, come in the front door, and not be a primadonna like many famous musicians. Unfortunately that relax attitude may have cost him his life. I heard from someone who was at the hospital this morning that Proof was shot twice, once in the head, once in the shoulder. He was not with his body guard, and earlier in the night he was with Trick Trick (Not Bizarre who now lives in Atlanta). Trick Trick had nothing to do the shooting. It’s too bad a talented Detroiter died under these circumstances. I wish this sort of shit would stop. (Message edited by dan on April 11, 2006) | ||
Superduperman Member Username: Superduperman Post Number: 80 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.242.221.36 |
From what I know him he was pretty cool to hang out with,before I moved my office downtown we used to be located right next to Deja Vu in Highland Park and used to frequent the strip,whenever he came he used to get up on stage and give an impromptu pole dance for the ladies,man those used to be fun times,RIP. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3518 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I can't tell you how frustrated I am at how such a great genre of music has been reduced to life and death situations. It just happens way too often where individuals can't seem to separate the street from the studio. Who in Black America back during the Civil Rights Movement would have ever imagined our people would be killing each other over something as silly as trivial music battles? Proof was such a talent, and this shit has got to end. | ||
Ravine Member Username: Ravine Post Number: 11 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.221.79.82 |
I hope no one misunderstands my earlier comments. I'm just so sick of the whole package, the whole cycle, kids shooting each other, men shooting each other, men treating women like dogs, women acting like dogs, men leaving women to raise children on their own, little kids getting beaten, raped and murdered by adults... all of that feeds into my disgust with rappers (and I know they are not all guilty of this) who-- whether they realize it, admit it, or neither-- glorify a lifestyle of cheapness and violence. Cheap women, lots of gaudy, tastelessly overstated jewelry, self-adulation, the whole universe revolves around my ass and, if you don't give me my ****ing respect (which I decided I automatically deserve,) that gives me the right to pull out my steel penis and blow you away. If it's a race issue, it's a race issue. I don't have a judgement about that. But if it IS a race issue, that aspect of it certainly needs to be ****ing addressed, along with the rest of it. And what privileges was Blessyouboys referring to? | ||
Hutt Member Username: Hutt Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 64.136.49.225 |
Amen Ravine. I also am sick of the messages of hate and violence in rap. Take the life of another or go to prison for trying to gives you "Street Cred". Selling dope is great and blah blah blah. Street Cred...how stupid of a word is that. How about Academic Cred? Or Athletic Cred? Why not try for Humanitarian Cred? How about opening up a Bible and discovering just how small all of us specks on the big canvas really are. | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 835 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
The profound brilliants of these gangster griots that bring meaning to the suffering masses should be lauded. L.Michigan I disagree with your sentiments...
Neeegro Please!__ it is alot deeper than that! What kind of brotha' are you anyway? Many Great Black Men have died in offering the ability to make sense of the suffering that their followers endured. These brilliant Black artist, are living and telling a story about serious world problems(keep'n it real )....I understand the complicated poetic narratives that address amerikkkas culture of dealth can be /and is often unclear, but we owe it to these incredible brothas to intellectually examine the story they tell. It is too bad the message is often glorified and glamorized particularly by people outside of the gangster Hip-Hop world all in the name of the all mighty dollar! peep this..... We will always be willing to talk and seek fair compromise, but we are ready to suffer when necessary and even risk our lives to become witnesses to the truth as we see it. I realize that this approach will mean suffering and sacrifice. It may mean going to jail. If such is the case the resister must be willing to fill the jail houses of the South. It may even mean physical death. But if physical death is the price that a man must pay to free his children and his white brethren form a permanent death of the spirit, then nothing could be more redemptive. This is the type of soul force that I am convinced will triumph over the physical force of the oppressor. Dr. Martin Luther King 1960 Montgomery, Alabama Proof will live on in spirit! super d(motordetroit) (Message edited by super_d on April 12, 2006) | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1581 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 70.236.175.171 |
If anybody understands those words of MLK to be applicable to a murder caused because of a beef, argument, or even physical fight between two individual men, than they are beyond hope IMHO. MLK's statement is about submitting oneself to death as an act of non-violent demonstration in a quest for justice. Death or inprisonment is the soul force that can overcome.
I find the use of this phrase interesting. I agree that the majority in our nation tends to a culture of violence. But it would seem that somehow you believe that this violent death of this black man, at the hands of likely another black man (if past patterns are at play here - who knows the truth now), is counter to the violent majority. This type of BS is leading the violent majority. I know nothing about this murder that leads me to believe it was any different than any other murder, except that the victim was famous. He didn't die because somebody wanted to silence his "ability to make sense of the suffering that their followers endured." You've got it wrong. The physical force of the oppressor in this instance is the greed, hate, and/or jealousy of an individual or a small group that brought about this murder. Unless we find out that Proof was murdered by a skinhead, you're full of BS. BTW - IMHO, 90% of the time, "keep'n it real" means maintaining certain serious world problems, not telling stories about them. | ||
Histeric Member Username: Histeric Post Number: 675 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.61.194.66 |
The idea that attendance at an "afterhours" is cause for violence or death is laughable at best and pathetically naive at worst. I have spent many happy hours at after hours (Lucky at Garfields, Burt at Red Door, etc, etc, etc) without the need for macho bullshit. I have been happily committed to the same women for most of that time (21 Years) and a father for a good portion of that time (ten years). I refuse your pronouncements that a married father "shouldn't" be doing this or doing that. At the same time, I couldn't agree more with Jsmeyers observation regarding the convoluted association of MLK's word and this incident. I know from personal experience that Proof was shooting off his mouth and his firearm at a Corktown afterhours in the last month or so....for apparently no more reason than his own ego. He was infected with a dangerous ego driven disease that is all too prevalent in our culture today. But don't misinterpret his problem as belonging to afterhours, rap, or Detroit. His problem was his own and ultimately, he paid the price. Fuck him. I mourn only for the little ones who will grow up without a father. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1197 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.85.155.145 |
Thank you Histeric for putting it into perspective. | ||
Northend Member Username: Northend Post Number: 871 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 69.220.232.15 |
histeric... You have been committed to the "same womEn for 21 years"??????? wishful thinking? freudian slip? Had a good time last week. I'll probably at the same watering holes tonight. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3957 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Resqviat in Pace, PROOF!! | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2291 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.20.73 |
Everyone's overlooking the other victim, Keith Bender, who is in critical condition with a gunshot wound to his head. He's a 15-year Army vet discharged recently for medical reasons. Police say he was shot first, by Proof. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060412/E NT01/604120371 It sounds like the outpouring of sympathy, the stuffed animals and other tributes aimed at Proof are misdirected. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 308 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
So Proof shot this Army vet in the head first, and then was himself shot by a different person? Well, maybe some of the forum members shouldn't be so quick to build statues of this man if he was the one who started the gunplay. It's tragic when anyone dies, but it's also hard to have any sympathy whatsoever for this man when it looks more and more like Proof is the one who created this situation. Here's another article from the freep: Violence Not New at C.C.C. Club http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=2006604120302 The "doorman" at this after-hours club was shot five times just a few months ago. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1300 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Another problem of cutting citizen's safety to fund other projects. Patronage at an after hours club is just looking for danger either from a police raid or just the goings on inside the club. | ||
Everydayislikesunday Member Username: Everydayislikesunday Post Number: 235 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.41.153.99 |
am i naive in asking what good pointing fingers does in a situation like this? a young life has been lost...can we turn this into something positive? maybe focus our attention on something that will show the youth of today that this is not the way to go... maybe that's a little idealist of me, but i have a hard time looking at this scenario as, "oh, he started it -- he deserved to die." | ||
Treez4brkfst Member Username: Treez4brkfst Post Number: 116 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.21.61.1 |
In light of the fact that Proof shot Bender in the head first and was consequently killed himself, I don't have much pity. To pull the trigger first is a hell of an indictment. And a head shot at that! Not to be a revisionist but I guess the "chickens did come home to roost". | ||
Bertz Member Username: Bertz Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.61.15.89 |
"I understand the complicated poetic narratives" complicated poetic narratives Sure if you compare them to dog food advertisements ...my rims my chrome....or ....my mind on my money and my money on my mind... better yet .... i came i saw i hit him right square in the jaw.... or how about .... you'sa fine motha fucker wount ya back that ass up... If you want "complicated poetic narratives" read Shakespeare | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 66.178.227.202 |
Who cares? | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3008 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.183.146 |
Eventually, all these stupid mofos will kill themselves off. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1588 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
In defense of hip hop, there are some amazing poets out there. For example, one of my favorite albums is Jurrassic 5's Power in Numbers. I'm not very familiar with Proof's music, so I won't comment on that. But saying that all hip hop is "my rims my chrome" etc, is like saying all rock music is like Megadeath. I've found a lot of good hip hop (and R&B) on this site (there is a lot that I don't like too): http://www.detroitbumps.com/ (Message edited by jsmyers on April 12, 2006) | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 471 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.215.30.34 |
Perhaps I am old-school, but why can't rappers nowadays portray their music creativity and poetic talent and rhymes the way 'DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince' used to do it, the way 'Sugarhill Gang' used to do it, the way 'Queen Latifah' used to do it or the way 'Digital Underground' used to do it. Somehow, interestingly enough, certain rap artists who are brilliant in their art stay alive, while others in the same field and genre perish. Perhaps it is about how they carry themselves in real life, perhaps it is about how they glorify violence, and perhaps it is about seeking trouble and finding demise. And please stop the BS about this being a racial problem - because the last time I checked Will Smith and Queen Latifah are both Black, yet they are thriving in music, on TV and in film. So Proof's death is just that - his own personal lifestyle causing his early departure. | ||
Harpernottingham Member Username: Harpernottingham Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 66.178.227.202 |
WHO CARES? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1598 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
Many still do: Epilogue by J-Live
From: http://www.houseoflyrics.com/d /artists/jlive Previously mentioned Jurassic 5: http://www.songmeanings.net/ar tist.php?aid=6709 For the most part you won't find them on stations like Clear Channel's 95.5 and 97.9. | ||
Islandman Member Username: Islandman Post Number: 131 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 68.42.171.59 |
Histeric, I think we're talking about the same afterhours where he was doing something similar. Harpernottingham, obviously you don't. Here's a bright idea: Don't post on this thread any more. | ||
Shave Member Username: Shave Post Number: 1139 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
The problem with the gangsta rap culture is that no one is willing to simply state the obvious: rap has over-stayed its welcome. It has no real use and its only purpose is to gain a quick buck while doing as little as possible. It has seriously devolved from a genre of music about playful boasting, having a good time, and simply feeling good about life. I was recently listening to an old school rap battle between Roxanne Shante and Sparky D. The lyrics were fierce. However, I cannot recall reading Word Up! magazine and learning that one of these ladies had fought, maimed, or killed one another. The "battle was on wax" and that was about it. I am so thankful that Histeric had the galls to give us insight into this "man's" character. He was simply an egotistical maniac that was caught up in his own sense of self-worth. Human life is so very fragile. There is nothing to defend here. A wannabe thug was snuffed out by another wanna be thug. Egotistical, maniacal cowards got more than what they bargained for. Another thing...I don't understand going to a watering hole to celebrate overcoming a medical condition. Can we say ghetto mentality? If anything, I would have gone straight to church and praised GOD for Him healing and restoring my once ailing body. Instead, he chose to dance with the devil and now he traded one health concern for one that, if he does live, may prove far more debilitating. Bottom line, there is no one to feel sorry for in this situation. Everyone involved, victims and all, are complete and utter idiots. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 558 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
I do believe the Detroit Police Department is the first law enforcement agency to ever arrest a suspect in the slaying of a rapper. Suspect Arrested In Proof Shooting Investigation Continues http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/8650029/detail.html | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 61 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.220.68.161 |
All I know is you shoot an Army vet in front of me and I might just kill you myself. Looks like the shooter turned himself in...... Hope he gets a key to the city. Sounds like it could be a "good" shooting as the cops like to say. I do believe if you witness someone shoot someone in the head you can blast the shooter and walk. Remember folks if you don't play the game you can't be dealt the deadman's hand. I was in the movie 8 Mile and so was Proof so I owe him props for that.....you will be missed......RIP Lil' Tac, Roy Daroucher | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3010 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.49.166.173 |
Rap is like 80's hair metal. It's become self parody. | ||
1honey Member Username: 1honey Post Number: 134 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Still it's another senseless crime in Detroit. Why can't folks settle their differences like they used to do back in the day? Good ole' ass kicking. | ||
Dan Member Username: Dan Post Number: 1203 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.47.194.247 |
The shooter was wise to turn himself in, he now has police protection, I think he needs it. | ||
Ddmoore54 Member Username: Ddmoore54 Post Number: 289 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.42.177.154 |
The shooter has a strong case, especially since he was described as being a bouncer at the club in the freep, despite being the vet's relative. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3520 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Not just that, but he can claim some type of self-defence, however weak that may be. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 310 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
So now we know that the argument was over a POOL GAME, a fucking pool game! Proof got mad and pistol whipped Angel Bender, who was unarmed, and then shot him in the head. Unbelievable. It sounds like the guy who shot Proof was acting in legitimate defense of the REAL victim of this tragedy, Angel Bender, an UNARMED Gulf War veteran. Had the shooter not acted when he did, it's very likely that Proof would have killed Bender (which still might end up being the case as Bender is in critical condition). Fuck Proof, it sounds like his attempted-murdering ass got EXACTLY what was coming to him! | ||
Ddmoore54 Member Username: Ddmoore54 Post Number: 290 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.42.177.154 |
Three in the head and one in the chest, that is the work of a skilled marksman. | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 877 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.67.48 |
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060413/E NT01/604130377 | ||
Skamour14 Member Username: Skamour14 Post Number: 43 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 67.185.180.156 |
Someone got shot??????? Danny who got shot? | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3343 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 65.222.10.3 |
Everyone was talking about what a good man he was rigth after he was killed....then it comes ou in the news that he fired the first shot. Next! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1985 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.186 |
Well we all know what's coming next.... litigation. The family of the guy Proof shot will be going after Proof's estate, regardless of whether or not the man survives. I'm sure they're going to call "Sam" or "Geoffrey". | ||
Wmuchris Member Username: Wmuchris Post Number: 305 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.58.36.2 |
Wouldn't you go after the estate of some wealthy thug that shot your husband or wife in the head? | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1200 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
I would, I don't see a problem with that. | ||
Everydayislikesunday Member Username: Everydayislikesunday Post Number: 236 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 68.41.153.99 |
i don't think i would. small compensation might be appropriate, but at that point (depending on how much you go after), you're not hurting him, you're hurting his children who had nothing to do with the situation. you can't choose who your parents are. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1988 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.186 |
But of course! I would go after the money as well! The guy in intensive care probably has a family too. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 692 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.30.175 |
from http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_c cwfaq2.asp, concerning the "duty to retreat" before using deadly force...
1. the shooter with the "good kill" could be easily challenged by dismissing any contention that the shooter was NOT inviting trouble. a bouncer at an after-hours joint courting self-acclaimed thugs? there's a difference between carrying a gun because you handle large amounts of cash in the course of business, and carrying a gun because you work where liquor is being served illegally, in a crime-ridden area, to people who profess violence as a lifestyle. 2. nothing has yet been revealed demonstrating "imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm" to the shooter. we don't know whether or not the killing of Proof was blood lust by a relative, or "reasonable" use of deadly force. the shooter has a long, painful, costly road ahead of him. and bagman - do you really want to take on someone whose native language is legalese? think twice before you pull your gun - especially if you've provoked conflict (by, say, inviting a street urchin to "pleasure" himself). life's tough enough without the legal battle that gunfire brings about. | ||
Warriorfan Member Username: Warriorfan Post Number: 311 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.43.81.191 |
If the shooter was in illegal possession of a firearm, then prosecute him for it. But he should not be prosectuted for killing Proof. The right to use deadly force does not end at protecting your own life, you can legally kill someone to stop them from murdering another innocent human being. It seems like the bouncer shot Proof to keep him from putting anymore bullets into poor Mr. Bender's head and to keep Proof from killing anyone else. The bouncer does not have to be in immediate danger to shoot a bad guy who is pumping bullets into an unarmed man's head. If the guy who shot Proof has to serve a year or two for illegal possession of a firearm then so be it, but as far as the shooting goes he did the right thing. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 694 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.30.175 |
warriorfan, i appreciate your sentiment. however, you are but one juror, and bound by the law. despite your sentiment - such as the sentiments of those seated on the o.j. jury - what if the letter of the law, and the meaning of the law, defines the shooter as guilty? you need to put your emotions aside and decide within the parameters of the law. you can be sure that the shooter will be tried on a firearms charge, being that he had a pistol in an establishment whose revenue exceeded fifty percent from liquor served by the glass. it all goes downhill from there, since the place was a blind pig, whose patrons were a known criminal element - and let's just hope the shooter didn't utter something like, 'you killed my cuz, bitch...,' before firing. he ended the career of a burgeoning artist, and all the ching, ching, bla-bling that comes with it, and deprived the rap artist's family of their due. no matter what happens in criminal court, the shooter must defend himself in civil court - against lawyers who will work for the plaintiff's greiving family - for free. what we figure as right and wrong, legal and illegal, just and injust, sometimes fail to equate. | ||
Bagman Member Username: Bagman Post Number: 62 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.220.68.161 |
I can hear the question to the jurist now.....have you read the detroityes.com fourm? your excused! bring back the fully informed jury! Bet PROOF sales skyrocket! | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 262 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 4.229.57.189 |
Sad... The whole thing is sad. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 105 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 71.10.61.35 |
Isn't Democracy great! I fought for the right of the mutha fuckas to kill each other. If that ain't dumb, I oin't know what is. What I'm sa'in is as insane and dumb as what they did. And, if anybody can find any sanity in what happened then I'll let you get a crowd at the intersection of Woodward and Jefferson and kiss yo ass! Is that DetroitYes enough for you? Freedom -- bring it on!!  Livedog2 | ||
Eastside Member Username: Eastside Post Number: 839 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.246.10.58 |
Posters like Warriorfan keep giving 2cents to this argument....but we should all wait to see if formal charges are filed...only then will the facts emerge. If the bouncer was so innocent, why flee the scene and compromise the investigation? There are many unanswered questions. Let's wait and see what Worthy does and then discuss that. | ||
Skamour14 Member Username: Skamour14 Post Number: 45 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 67.185.180.156 |
ahhh man... Ravni Gore-ay... Proof shouldve went grocery shopping before he got blasted... then he wouldve had some food in his house so his kids could eat the next day..... I wonder if they had enough milk? | ||
Ddmoore54 Member Username: Ddmoore54 Post Number: 291 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.42.177.154 |
http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/8700729/detail.html He was basically charged on using an illegal firearm, not murder, so it must have been considered justifiable homocide. Regarding thecarl, had he been licensed to carry, although it is illegal to carry inside an establishment with greater than 50% of profits coming from liquor, the first offense is a civil infraction, with possibility of losing your license. So, that's not really a big deal if one is put in a position to need the firearm. Since, he was carrying illegaly, it's irrelevant. While he's avoided criminal charges for homocide, he'll probably still be sued by Proof's family on civil charges. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 137 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
a friends mom was the nurse and apparantly Eminem and his "boys" forced their way into the room where proof was held knocking doctors out and whatnot because he wasn't allowed to be seen. You wonder why people hold grudges against these guys?? Maybe because they think they can do whatever! | ||
Superduperman Member Username: Superduperman Post Number: 81 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 69.242.221.36 |
I just saw thew marquee at the state theatre dedicating tonights altered state to proof.........why are they honoring a person who attempted to murder someone else......and another thing they better not start saying he was assasinated or I might just puke. |
