  Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 8 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.211.222.47 |
I don't know if it has been brought up, but this past semester The Michigan Daily (I know, the bastion of outstanding journalism, but it's a student paper, you know what your getting when you read it) had a four part series on Cass Tech. Here is the first part, came out about two weeks ago 'U' catches Cass Tech talent Since 2001, more than 10 percent of all black freshmen at the 'U' have graduated from Cass Tech By Christine Beamer "Over the past ten years, Cass has sent more underrepresented minorities to the University than any other high school." http://www.michigandaily.com/m edia/storage/paper851/news/200 6/04/05/News/u.Catches.Cass.Te ch.Talent-1783719.shtml?norewr ite200604211955&sourcedomain=w ww.michigandaily.com | ||
Toog05 Member Username: Toog05 Post Number: 4 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 148.61.228.4 |
Of course, I'm a recent graduate of Cass Tech, the best school in the city and one of the best in the state, many technicians go to MSU though and I currently attend Grand Valley State Univeristy and 5% of my class came here to Grand Valley, even though 5% don't sound like alot, you gotta think about how many technicians graduate a year 500+ graduates for my class. Also Cass Tech has a high precentage rate of students attending college right after high school. When it comes to minoirty high schools, I think Cass Tech ranks good in the country. (Message edited by toog05 on April 21, 2006) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3696 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Toog05, welcome to the Forum. jjaba is proud to read this story. But the assertion about minorities is frankly a bunch of garbage. Cass Tech. has always nurtured minorities. We were the children of immigrants. We also were moving up and out of the ranks of Car-shop Johns, bolting cars like our parents. You want some names or their nationalities? Poland, Bohemia, Germany, Ukraine, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, China, Lebanon, Italy, children of Southerners, children of recently arrived share croppers who happened to be black, and more. Cass Tech. had many foreign exchange students from all over the world. So to assert that now Cass Tech. produces model minoritiy students is just Univ. of Michigan pulp fiction. Cass Tech. has always educated Detroiters, and we've always been minorities. jjaba, Class of 1959, Printing. | ||
Ptero Member Username: Ptero Post Number: 29 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 4.229.33.222 |
Thank you, Jjaba. Absolutely. Ptero, Class of 1971, Music. Fenkell bus, Imperial Express. Milt was the best! (oh yeah. another proud westsider. near Fenkell and Ardmore. Sam's Drugs, Red Devil Pizza...) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4808 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Just more pap from the Michigan Daily... It's better than a lot of the crud they usually churn out, but only barely. That's what you get from a student newspaper at a school without a journalism program. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 475 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Journalism apparently must be fairly easy, or else there are just not many outlets for journalism majors to work. The reason I mention this is for the fact that these majors were at the bottom in starting salaries coming out of college the past two decades. I currently work in a similar field (technical writing/editing plus some copyediting) but have never taken any college coursework in that area. So, taking journalism/English as a minor might be OK, but having a more substantive area to fall back on is probably a saner approach, IMO. | ||
Umstucoach Member Username: Umstucoach Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Again, you have to expect this from the Daily. In subsequent articles about Cass Tech, you could see their agenda concerning the MCRI, that many of the CT students would not be allowed in if it passes. But since I didn't attend CT and after talking to those who had, it seems like it is the mission for CT to get their students prepped for college. Weed through and you get the sense for the quality students it produces. That was my aim here. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 7 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Does anyone read either of the political newspapers that Michigan publishes? I wonder how well or poorly written they are? | ||
Rasputin Member Username: Rasputin Post Number: 3596 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
An OUTSTANDING post, jjaba. Kudos ..... Black-atcha ..... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 26 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
I'm a Cass Tech alum and a recent U-M alum who followed the articles. The articles came off as patronizing at best, condescending at worst. I especially took issue with them printing the ACT test score of one of the current Cass Tech seniors interviewed who will be attending Michigan in the fall. It was very irresponsible on their part to do that in the current climate. As someone above said, you could clearly see there were definitely underlying themes in the articles regarding MCRI. Although, I was a bit nostalgic seeing my old teachers featured in the articles, I would have rather they just done an article about MCRI and broadened the scope of their discussion to include more high schools. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4810 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Well, that particular part of the article raised more than those red flags for me. I want to know how he got into Michigan with, what was it, a 22 or 23? That's pathetically low. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 29 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
It was a 23, and it's considerably above the state of Michigan's ACT average of 21, and significantly above the city of Detroit's average of 16. No real surprise that he got in, IMO. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 479 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Even 16 is high for parts of Detroit. Some schools have their averages below 15. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4811 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Yeah, it is, actually. The Daily ran a very interesting statistic as part of this series of articles, or maybe another one about the MCRI. I can't remember. Anyway, it was in big, bold print on the front page. It was something like the University is currently 14% underrepresented minorities, and if MCRI passes, that number would drop to 5%. Now, what does that tell you about the nature of the admittances for so-called "underrepresented minorities"? did those 9% of students that would drop off under MCRI deserve to get in in the first place? Just playing devil's advocate here. Because I've yet to hear anybody I've talked to about it provide a reasonable argument why they should. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3698 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
jjaba's point has been well received. The point is very simple. Detroit is Poletown, Detroit is Jewtown, Detroit is Little Italy, Detroit is Chinatown, Detroit is Bronzeville. The University of Michigan would like to be so lucky. So would Duke University, and we see their problems laid bare. Once you start counting colors, you get the nonsense that Cass Tech. is 95% black. Right, but are they Africans, or Americans? Are they Polacks or Schvartzas? Stop counting U. of M, and start educating Americans. Cass Tech. has always been Detroit's finest. Oh, so now we see how racist the U of M. is, that they have to have scharvatza recruiters to beg graduates to attend when more wanna go to MSU anyway. Truly pathetic. jjaba, on his fucking Westside soapbox. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
Notice that I never ever once mentioned race in my discussion. And I purposely left race out of the discussion. When you're talking about developing a wholistic, highly competitive student body, the fact that he came from a community where he scored 7 poinits above his community's average is a significant feat. I don't know the average GPA of Detroit students, but I suspect his was significantly above that average as well. If MCRI passes and the University moves to a strictly statistical admissions process where they take the statistically outstanding individuals from each community of the state (and they have always given "preferential treatment" to white students from rural areas of Michigan) then he would very likely still be admitted. So no, it isn't a surprise. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 482 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
GPAs are so highly inflated that they often are meaningless. Back in the early 1960s, the mean GPA of a graduating senior in Electrical Engineering at the University of Wisconsin was 2.1 to 2.2. Today, it's way over 3 point, probably closer to 4. SAT scores peaked in 1962, the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) was scrapped after Jan 1994, and was replaced by a dumbed-down version--the Scholastic Assessment Test (SAT) in 1994. In 1995, a massive renorming of SAT scores occurred, which added more than 100 points to those at the bottom--those near 400, so that their scores were in fact over 500! (Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 22, 2006) | ||
Ltorivia485 Member Username: Ltorivia485 Post Number: 2587 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 199.74.87.98 |
Eh, I thought the average GPA for all engineering students (in all specialties) was around a 3.2-3.4. It's definitely NOT anywhere close to a 4.0. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.147 |
I think what some people are saying is that if a non-minority kid applied to UofM with a 23 on his ACT they wouldn't think twice. DENIED!! The average ACT score is 26-30 for admitted UofM applicants. Cass shouldn't be judging itself against Detroit schools and their awful ACT averages. It should be judging itself against the rest of the states top public schools. GP North and South, Groves, Lahser, West Bloomfield H.S...... O would also like to take this time to honor Toog05 for completing the longest run on sentence with the worst grammer for a college student. Ever. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 485 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
"Eh, I thought the average GPA for all engineering students (in all specialties) was around a 3.2-3.4. It's definitely NOT anywhere close to a 4.0." Closer to 4 (when dealing with one significant figure) means over 3.5... When I taught K-12, I hope I taught my fourth-grade math and fifth-grade (all subjects) kids enough math and English to figure out that distinction. There is a difference between close to and closer to. Furthermore, the engineering students usually ace the simpler L&S courses, which pushes their overall GPA even higher. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 22, 2006) | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4812 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Bingo. There's no question. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 31 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
I think what some people are saying is that if a non-minority kid applied to UofM with a 23 on his ACT they wouldn't think twice. DENIED!! Clearly, I knew that was what he was trying to say. But thanks for pointing that out to me. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 712 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.21.44.129 |
LY, there is a big difference between a 3.5 or 3.6 student and a 4.0 student....They arent very close at all | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 488 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
"LY, there is a big difference between a 3.5 or 3.6 student and a 4.0 student....They arent very close at all" And? I stated that it might be around 3.5xx, and L misinterpreted it as being around 4.0. I know math and English well enough to know the difference. | ||
Zulu_warrior Member Username: Zulu_warrior Post Number: 2756 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
As an alum of both CT and U of M, I read the article and had a different take. There have been 4 Black Action Movements (BAM) on U of M's campus since the late 60's. Having been apart of BAM III in the 80's, the major issue was at that time recruitment and retention of Minority Students. U of M at that time had a bad reputation for recruiting minorities from other states but seemed to not be able to do so from a city of over a million nary 40 miles from its location. BAM III was about this issue and challenged the university to do a number things including to recruit more students from Detroit. Having a great number of CT people at Michigan was common at that time, but the overall numbers were low of student representation, 5% or so at that time. If a solid 10% now come from Cass alone, then I would be concerned that other students in other DPS schools may be left out. Now I am sure, to appease the Ren Cen folks that if the Home of the Phoenix on Outer Drive were a larger school, they would have probably a larger percentage of students then CT, but the numbers dont fall that way. King also would vie for suprememcy. No doubt CT is an elite school, and produces for the state many of our Leaders and Best (had to through it in)and the tradtion should be maintained. But what of other DPS schools? DPS is the state leader in producing numbers of African Americans for College. Bar none. There should be more DPS students at U of M, at all of its campus'. | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 86 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.14.101.116 |
The University of Michigan does not publish any papers. They are all student run, the Michigan Daily is liberally based and the Michigan Review has a conservative base. Neither of them are as poorly written as your post. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 112 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.248 |
I disagree with some of your sentiments that non-minority students with an ACT score of 23 would not get in. There ARE white students who are in UofM with scores like that. That was even reported by our local newspapers when the whole affirmative action debate was front page news. It's just a higher proportion of minority students have lower scores. When I went there, there was a white guy from Hamtramck High who had a 20! I think you do need to consider community. So, if you want to use that argument, there are "unqualified" white students who are taking more qualified students' places. But outside of all of that, it should be OBVIOUS that all schools do not have the same grading standards. For example, I went to a high school without AP courses. However, there are some students who have tons of AP courses which assign grades on a 5.0 scale. Is that student necessarily better than me if he has a 4.0 because he/she received all B's in his/her AP courses and I received a 3.75 based on getting 3 A's and 1 B in regular courses? Certainly something that can be debated. Also, some schools are notoriously leneint with students to increase their chances of getting accepted into college. In addition, almost everyone in academia acknowledge that standardized tests are inherently biased and prone to inaccuracies. For example, it has been shown that people who complete ACT/SAT preparatory classes (i.e. Kaplan) receive better scores. Also, people who take the SAT or ACT multiple times, on average, receive better scores the second time. Is this really testing your knowledge if studying helps improve grades? No! ACT and SAT are suppossed to assess the knowledge you gained in high school, not how well you studied 2 weeks before taking it! Who can afford to take prep classes or to take the tests multiple times? Usually more affluent people. So, it is ALWAYS a mistake to judge people only on "standardized" scales like ACT scores and GPA. People have hardships, different experiences, and other aspects of their lives that reflect their potential as a university student. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 490 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Aren't free ACT/SAT prep sessions available after hours through the schools or their districts? Besides, there are plenty of free internet-based prepping aids. Sounds like somebody's crying in one's fermented adult beverage. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 113 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.248 |
I'm not crying. And I don't even drink. It sounds like somebody don't like what they hear so they are attacking me personally. Point being, why should you HAVE to study to do good? Plus, I mentioned more than just that, smart guy. If these types of tests are so good and fair we should not have job interviews either, just give someone a scantron and a test booklet and let them "earn" their job. You have too much faith in our flawed "merit" system. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4814 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
You mean, why should you have to study to do well? Because that's how you get into schools like Michigan. I worked hard to get here. If you don't think you have to study and then expect to get in, I have no problem laughing at you when you get the small envelope in the mail. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 114 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.248 |
FOR THE ACT! READ WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE! YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO STUDY FOR THE ACT! It's like studying for an IQ test...you're just not meant to. It's supposed to test DEVELOPMENT as a student throughout school, not the ability to study just before you take it! Plus, I went to, and GRADUATED from U of M. I have also earned a PhD. So don't try to act as if I'm an idiot with no knowledge of studying. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4815 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Why shouldn't you have to study for the ACT? It's just like any other test. And if you want to maximize your opportunities, you study. Period. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 491 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
If you want to be accepted into an intra- or intermural athletic program, you do what you have to in order to compete. Applying for admission to college is competition, and admission should be earned mostly through merit. If another baseball player, for example, took extra batting and fielding practice and you didn't bother, whose fault is it when he made the team and you didn't? I'm not trying to be "smart" about it, but I tire quickly when people complain constantly about simple "problems" and "inequities" when these could easily be remedied by the complainers themselves. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3699 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
For a very long time, and perhaps even now, Univ. of Michigan Medical School had a quota against Jews. Jews were limited, for fear there would be "TOO MANY" Jewish doctors. Jewish pole vaulters, come in. Jewish linguists, come right in. Jewish palentologists, come on down. What we have here is a legacy of social manipulation based on racist criteria, not based on merit. Cass Technical is a fine high school. No wonder their graduates want to go to technical programs. No wonder MSU draws them. The Univeristy of Michigan would draw them too except all's they know about drawing is Black athletes. Drawing qualified urban hip, we be happening Cass Tech. scholars is a new thing for that racist place, just 40 miles from Detroit. And no, no, Ann Arbor is not a suburb. jjaba, Westside Cass Tech. Grad, 1959. Please, don't get me started. You saw that pathetic bunch at the US Supreme Court, trying to deny what racist pigs look like. | ||
Dag Member Username: Dag Post Number: 204 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 199.79.226.6 |
Jjaba, I am not familiar with the past history of medical admissions at Michigan but I can speak that there is no current cap of Jewish admissions. I do not doubt what you say but I can assure you that there is NO CURRENT cap on Jewish admissions at the medical school. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 115 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.248 |
First, you are making the ACT into something different than it was meant. Second, you are working within the assumption that everything is fair. I strongly beleive it is not. We can differ in that opinion. That is why there are so many disagreements about this topic in general. However, it is generally true that people of privalege have more opportunities, connections, and money to improve themselves for the competition of life. I am sure Donald Trump's kids will have more opportunities in life than any of us. Overall, I am just saying that we should not assume that grades and ACT scores are the only things that should count. In life we consider more than just these aspects. And I was making the argument that we can't assume grades are assigned uniformly throughout every high school around the country, nor should we let a single test score dictate so much. We need to consider a person's experience, environment, potential, etc. in order to accurately assess someone's abilities. That's what we do for every other aspect of our society, why should college admissions be any different? "Merit" is not so easy to determine, in my opion. To me, saying I have a 3.9 and a 29 on the ACT tells me very little about a person. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 493 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Should some batters get five strikes and three balls, whereas another might only be allowed one strike and need seventeen balls for a walk? Even if this were primarily due to his lot in life? Why do you think that an umpire or baseball fan should have to take a player's environment, education in an urban school, family life, drug history, or what-not into account? Why should somebody who studied hard for over a dozen years have the door for admittance to a major college--a scarce commodity--slammed in his face for other reasons not tied to merit? Seems unfair to me... | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 116 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.248 |
How do you define merit? Is having a rich father who can get you experience working at his own business merit? Is your father being able to send you to the top private high school and pay for the best tutors merit? To me, that's like telling someone that they have an automatic homerun as soon as they come to bat. That's just as unfair as your analogy. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 117 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.248 |
Bottom line, I don't think there is a uniform way to assess everyone's abilities. It needs to be case-by-case. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 494 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
You clearly wouldn't accept any definition for merit that I would proffer because you seem to have a closed mind in this matter. Therefore, why should I bother? Besides, I don't have a dog in this race anyway. I was fortunate in that I was too advanced in years when AA came about. I was already accepted into Marquette University, the University of Wisconsin-Madison, and West Point before 1964. I didn't have an anchor holding me back. [BTW, the tutition for my first semester at UW after transferring from Marquette (as a second-semester sophomore taking twenty-one credits) only cost $110 or so. Priceless...] You're misinterpreting a privilege as a right. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 22, 2006) | ||
Kova Member Username: Kova Post Number: 224 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 141.213.184.173 |
haha, just saw Zug already covered my points, oh well. I'll leave the post up I'll play devil's advocate here. Your baseball analogy assumes that everything else is equal. You are correct, a baseball fan doesn’t have to take all that into account. Lets assume that baseball is baseball everywhere in the world, same in U.S and same in the DR, its all skill. Doesn’t matter where you come from. OK, that’s a great system, but does it reflect college admissions? Not quite as well. Let's try another hypothetical situation . We have two students. One, grew up in West Bloomfield, both parents hold masters degrees, the kid was given the best educational preparation as a youngster and as a result did not have to work too hard in one of the state's best High Schools. Likewise, his parent's could afford several Act and SAT preparation classes to inflate his grades. Also, his family being connected, was able to gather some impressive recommendation letters. Now the second kid, grows up in Del Ray, a community of low expectations. However this kid as Livernoisyard says " studied hard for over a dozen years." He goes to the Detroit libraries, studies when he isn't working, and pulls out a fair ACT score (24).This score however is several points lower than Kid # 1. Both apply to the same school. Who is truly deserving in your mind ? What if Kid #1 is black and kid #2 is white? Is living in a shit hole less "hard work” than having things given to you all you life? Personally, I think AA is misguided and should end sooner rather than later. But some of these hard work comments perplex me. my 1/2 cent. (Message edited by KOVA on April 22, 2006) | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 118 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.248 |
You are right, in 1964 it was all of the minorities in this country that had the biggest anchors you could find holding them back. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 32 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
Yawn. So what's new in Detroit? | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3700 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Dag, you sound like an insider in the UM Medical School. Give us the real history of your racist admissions policies. If you are an insider, tell what you can find out about the racial crieria used over the years. It is so common knowledge, jjaba is shocked you didn't know that anti-Jewish policies have been extant since the place opened. If you let in one applicant to be a doctor over another as qualified because of meeting some racial quota, you are still the same racist pigs you've been since you opened. jjaba doesn't believe you are colourblind. Infact, you bragg about your quotas at the expense of others. That's why people haul your asses into Court all the time. You now take pride in giving Blacks admissions from Cass Tech. So what's so monumental about giving gifted and talented students admissions? Cass Tech. has always had good graduates. Do the white students wait in line now while you do the racist admissions strut? jjaba, Cass Tech. Class of '59 jjaba. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 11 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I find it suprising to hear of anti-affirmitive action talk on a Detorit forum. I am an accepted U of M student, however, I completely agree with Jjaba. Reverse racism will not solve any problems. I have a dream that college applicants will be judged by the content of their academic skill and not the color of their skin. | ||
Kova Member Username: Kova Post Number: 226 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 141.213.184.173 |
Why do you find it suprising? It appears you have many assumptions. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 12 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Everybody has assumptions. From other conversations that I have viewed, there has been some liberal leanings present. I just found it interesting to find some notions that are considered "conservative." Personally, I see myself as a moderate. I do not like partisan polotics, but I do recognize its value, especially in the United States. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 508 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
I'm surprised that this word is continually misspelled. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 13 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I do that a lot. My apologies... | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
I also misspelled politics if you did not already notice. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 742 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
we noticed  | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 509 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
I edit for fun and profit; I noticed. We all make mistakes. That's why I edit my posts a lot. I key sloppily... So I'm a grammar/punctuation cop most of the time when working/funning while technical editing/writing (BTW, no 'e' in "grammar"--I let that one slide, too). Two weeks ago, I took on some pro bono editing of the user guides for Sun Microsystems's OpenOffice open-source office suite. There were literally hundreds of errors in only the first five chapters of published docs I've re-reviewed, which have gone through several levels of writing/editing already. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 23, 2006) | ||
Dag Member Username: Dag Post Number: 205 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.211.173.197 |
Jjaba, I have always respected you but now I am a little stunned by your post. Like I stated before, I do not know the complete history of the admissions policies and like I said before, I do not doubt you. The only thing I stated is that there is no current cap on Jewish applicants or on any applicants who have names which are "Jewish." I think making crass assesments on my racial or racist views is foolhardy based on the history that may have been associated with an institution that I may be associated with. I don't believe I am willing to respond more, or give any reasoning or justification without divulging my identity. I am sincerly sorry for any slights percieved or real, I have not meant anything on my behalf. | ||
Deputy_mayor_2026 Member Username: Deputy_mayor_2026 Post Number: 15 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
Livernoisyard, I appreciate your editing, although, I don't ever recall using the word grammar, so that must have been someone else. Anyway, as an editor at my high school newspaper, I also understand the colossal importance of reviewing any piece of writing. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 510 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
I forgot just who did the "grammer" bit. But it was probably in this thread. Correcting all the errors on this forum would consume way too much time. I'm in a bit of a lull after the full-time technical editor/writer contract with the Motorola spinoff--Freescale Semiconductor--was recently concluded. Most of it involved the CodeWarrior assembler and compiler manuals for its 8- and 16-bit family microcontrollers. FSL has its microcontroller chips embedded into 42% of US vehicles and in appliances like washing machines. It still has an exclusive-supplier contract with its former parent, Motorola, for their cellular phones, and it manufactures the G4 chips for the Macintosh. IBM made the G5 chips. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 23, 2006) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3701 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
jjaba's comments are never meant to isolate one member of the Forum. Dag, any reference made to "you" or "your" refers to institution, not an individual. If you read jjaba's posts on the topic on this thread, understand them to be directed at UM policies over a long time, not those of individuals carrying their water. jjaba was born in Detroit in 1941. Over dinners in his Jewish home, the topic of UM policies would come up. There was much written by the newspapers about Jews and the UM. So, please excuse jjaba's sensitivities on the matter when we read in the Michigan Daily that preferences are given to any group, when so many young applicants are otherwise qualified to attend UM. Dag, nothing personal really. jjaba, Westsider and Casa Tech. Grad, 1959. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 512 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
"jjaba, Westsider and Casa Tech. Grad, 1959." Was Cass Tech. Spanish back in 1959? | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4818 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
Jjaba's killing us with this great, 1950's era insider info on Michigan admissions practices. Mind sending me a mimeographed copy of your groundbreaking discoveries? Maybe you could send it in a telegram. Pony Express, perhaps? | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 513 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Western Union recently sent its final telegram: Era Ends: Western Union Stops Sending Telegrams | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3703 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Livernoisyard, yes it was Casa Techa. back then. jjaba is in letterpress printing. He pre-dates mimeograph machines, carbon paper, and the xerox machine by a generation. The Aram will get jjaba's results by Telegram. jjaba, Cass Tech. Printer. (LOL) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Maybe 'twas the "proximity effect." -- That 'a' key just gets too darned close to 's'. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.213.39.167 |
<i>Cass shouldn't be judging itself against Detroit schools and their awful ACT averages. It should be judging itself against the rest of the states top public schools. GP North and South, Groves, Lahser, West Bloomfield H.S...... </i> Why shouldn't it? Isn't Cass Tech a part of the same school district with those "awful ACT averages"? Aren't they funded from the same budget? Aren't the students of Cass Tech from those same neighborhoods as those other schools? GP North and South, Groves, Lahser and WBHS are all in districts where the average household income is magnitudes above the households of the students of Cass Tech. In those districts, the average students parents have college degrees, and the average ACT score is well above a 19 (which is the average score for Cass Tech). They all might be in the same boat, but Cass Tech isn't in that boat along with them. That's why Cass Tech is frankly an anomaly, in these times, for producing students that have the potential to succeed at the University of Michigan. And while we're at it, if there is any white student that scores 7 points above the average for his/her district on the ACT, he or she will very likely be admitted into the University of Michigan (or nearly any school of his/her choice for that matter). Furthermore, if there are 2 groups of people that the University of Michigan is in no shortage of it's Asians and Jews. Blacks and Hispanics are an entirely different story... But I wish just as many of you had been crying foul at the deplorable conditions of the urban school systems over the past 30-40 year as you are at these "social remedies" to try and correct the damage that has been done. /2 cents | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 515 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
I bet that DPS and the teacher's union bragged about how great their system was all throughout the past 40 years, especially when a new teachers' contract was about to be inked. OTOH, DPS students probably had as high a percentage of intellectual dropouts back then as today, going to class and doing very little but still graduating. Social promotion has been firmly in place since the 1960s. I've encountered enough DPS and suburban teachers who said that not much has really changed the past 25-30 years. | ||
1630 Member Username: 1630 Post Number: 31 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 209.69.165.10 |
No discussion of U of M admission policies is going to be free of racial dimensions. I graduated from Cass Tech more than 30 years ago. When I entered Cass it was recognized as one of the premier public schools in the country - no other adjectives were used. The year of my entry only one school, the Bronx High School of Science, had more National Merit semifinalists. Cass was deemed superior to almost all of our suburban competitors. Subconsciously or not, everyone recognizes that Cass is now a premier African American high school and few expect it to compete with adjacent suburban schools, much less with such powerhouses as the Bronx High School of Science. I have very mixed feelings about affirmative action. I have no problem with some consideration being given to students coming from difficult socio-economic circumstances. On this basis, most of the current crop of Cass grads should benefit from Affirmative Action. I have a problem with this being an automatic race based entitlement even if a student comes from an upper middle class environment. Finally, tests are a lot like democracy, they are imperfect. But given the task of processing thousands of applications from thousands of different schools within a limited time frame, I don't know of any other way to fairly compare the applicants. Grades alone won't do it - grading and course material varies from teacher to teacher and school to school. By the way, you still have to take a test to get into Cass. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3704 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
1630, excellent point. It is both hard to get into AND graduate from Cass Tech. You even have to make an effort to get down there all year by 8 am. jjaba remembers being given some recommendations to attend Cass Tech. He doesn't remember any special tests. Maybe they were in place back then too. Thanks for your views. jjaba is American and should be given equal opporunities. That's all. Cass Tech. grads should be seen as elite because they are. By UM accepting Cass Tech. grads, they are dong what they've always done. But now we count races. Ok UM, how many Poles, how many Itlaians, how many Jews, how many Chaldeans did you let in? Doesn't that sound absolutely absurd. But that's what those racist pigs do. And jjaba doesn't like it. jjaba, Cass Tech., 1959. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3705 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Oh, and UM, did you count Buffy and Wellington from Grosse Pointe? They just got accepted for Fall too. (We think they're white legacies!) jjaba, ROTFLMJAO. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1150 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
Chances are pretty good that Buffy and Wellington got into UM because they had damn good grades regardles if they were white, black , pink or green. Let's continue what appears CT's policy to send the best and the brightest to AA. Getting in is one thing, lasting is another. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4819 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
jjaba once again shows how out of touch he is with the realities of UM admissions. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
I scored a 30 on my ACT and was refused admission by a number of public schools. White male from a small country school. (Not in MI, so don't try to guess what "suburb" I came from) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3709 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Focusonthed, wait in line until the "targeted minorities" get in. That's the way it tis. The Aram does know that jjaba was a professor on admissions committees for 30 yrs. didn't he? Aram, what's your take on equal opportunity for all at UM? Rock is right. Admit the best and the brightest. jjaba. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 119 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.177.85 |
I agree that the best should be admitted. As I stated earlier, it's not always easy to determine who is the best. I actually agree to some extent that race should not be considered, but I think socioeconomic factors should (But in America, race and class often go hand-in-hand). Is it really fair that the poorest never get opportunities in life because their parents were poor. A poor upbringing leads to second rate accessibility to resources that enhance future opportunities. I don't think people should be limited by their parents actions or lack of actions. So, leading your peers in a poor community is an accomplishment that needs to be considered (as well as numerous other things). Like I said before, in almost every other aspect of life we consider more than just standardized measures. When you have thousands of applicants with relatively similar academic qualifications, sometimes you should consider other aspects. I am sick of people who act as if GPA and ACT score should be the gold standard for who should get into college. What if someone wrote a terrible application letter and had a terrible academic portfolio of papers done in high school? When I applied I had to provide more than just my report card and ACT score. People are more than just numbers. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 130 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.147 |
Zug you are absolutely right. People are more than numbers on tests and G.P.A averages. They are also numbers on a sheet of paper in an admissions office. These numbers tell someone who works there how many people of a certain ethnicity should be admitted for the school to be able to call itself "diverse" in an ad and so J.J. and Rev. Al don't shoe up in the quad. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 120 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.162 |
Okay, I concede, all of you are right! Let's only consider what you value as the most important. Better yet, we should go a further step. Let's tell all of the business owners out there not to do any more interviews, don't ask people why they want to work with their company, or ask for any experience. All they need to do is create a test that indicates a person's aptitude to work at the job. Those who get the highest scores get the jobs! Plus, why don't some of you say what you are really feeling. Somewhere deep down in your gut I can hear it, "Detroiters (i.e. Black people) are biologically less intelligent than everyone else. It is obvious that it is a lack of inherent capabilities that pull Detroiters back. It is also obvious that non-Detroiters are biologically more intelligent, and therfore are better able to reflect their talent in terms of GPA and ACT scores. Why dilute our top schools by allowing inherently unintelligent people into those schools?" Come on. I personally don't think one group is more intelligent than another, the only thing that makes a significant difference is environment. I think environment limits people's opportunities without necessarily stunting their potential. Obviously some of you think Detroiters are lost causes. I'm not saying let every Detroiter into the top schools, but those who are the elite in Detroit deserve a chance to go to an elite university. Why are so many of you convinced that it is so OBVIOUS that Detroiters don't belong at good universities no matter how they compare to their peers. Are Detroiters inherently less intelligent, in your opinion? (Message edited by Zug on April 25, 2006) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 532 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Are you suggesting that some good-mannered, but chubby, Clark Kent with a 8.4 second 40 should get a roster spot on the Lions because he just might possess some hidden super talents, or more likely fulfill some quota or what-not? | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 132 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.147 |
Environment? Please. The environment is created by the people who live in it. Actually, only those who are elite students in the state deserve to go to elite schools. That is why so many districts inflate G.P.A's. To get their kids a better look. So the standardized tests are a way to get a look and what everyone knows. I don't think an inherent lack of intelligence is the problem in Detroit schools. I think an inherent lack of leadership, quality facilities and teachers who care are to blame. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 121 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.162 |
Enough with the stupid sports analogies. I don't even know what you're talking about. Plus, its a convenient way to trivialize what I'm saying while making a very weak point. Come on, it is highly unlikely that the best player on any college team would run an 8.4 second 40. However, it is quite common to see really good small collge students make it into the NFL. Heck, about a decade ago I remember a guy from Wayne State made the Lions. (Message edited by Zug on April 25, 2006) | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 122 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.162 |
321Brian, So all Detroit children should be punished for what their parents are doing? We can't choose where we are born or who we are born to. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 533 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Why don't you just come out and say it?: You want a minimum percentage of students admitted to elite colleges guaranteed solely upon race--your race, BTW. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 123 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.176.162 |
Beleive it or not, I'm not Black...but I am from Detroit. Plus, I don't think there should be a guarantee, but I do think it should be at least close to the representation we see in society as a whole. I don't think biological races exist, so any racial inequity that exist is created by culture/society. Race is a social construction. Why are you so convinced Black people do not deserve to go to elite schools? I think I hit your nail square on the head earlier. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 535 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
If more people of all races could be like C. Rice, we'd be better off. It doesn't take AA, money, or well-off parents to achieve life's goals or ambitions. Detroit not only lacks good (black or white) leaders; it also lacks good followers. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 35 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.213.67.53 |
Zug is on point. | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 133 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.147 |
Want to talk about punishing people? How about punishing white males who want to get in to an elite college but can't because a less qualified minority applicant is taken instead of him for the sake of diversity. Why punish the white male for what his great, great, great grandfather may or may not have done? You can't choose who you are born to but you can change everything after that. Blaiming it on the environment is lazy. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 139 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
If the argument is that we should let less-qualified minority applicants into college because we have to allow for the fact that their schools were sub-par and did not fully engage them and prepare them for college... ...then are we saying that it's okay to let people into college who are wholly unprepared for college? I'm for an equal playing field...that's why in the types of cases I mentioned above, I'm against AA...it clogs up the educational system, and takes up resources teaching remedial classes. There is no place in college for remedial classes, what a ridiculous concept. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 38 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.213.66.34 |
The University of Michigan doesn't offer remedial classes... | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4824 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
And there is no reason for them to do so. | ||
Kova Member Username: Kova Post Number: 230 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 141.211.222.196 |
iheartthed, in fact they do, not "directly" however. Check out the Comprehensive Studies Program, a unit of LSA that provides academic support and instruction to disadvantaged students. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 141 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
I regret that I mentioned "minority" in my post, because to me, this isn't about race. It's about people who aren't qualified to be in college being accepted to college, and then having their "catching up to high school level first" education subsidized (as it likely would be, if they came from such underprivileged areas). (Message edited by focusonthed on April 25, 2006) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3710 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
jjaba's family were victims of pogrom in Ukraine. That's his legacy. But somewhere along the line, he was classified white male, no preferences. Look up pogrom. You might learn a little more about Detroit and America before you target the "minority coloured flavour of the month." Look up Chaldeans. They were classified white males by the Census too and they had one hell of a life in the Middle East. Spell it, BRUTALITY. Look up Holocaust. Those immigrant/refugees are white males too. Roma Gypsies, Gays in Europe, Jews. Hold it, wait in line. Now, UM look at your policies and see if "share cropper legacy" is any better. You are racist pigs. Stop getting so excited about good Cass Tech. grads. You've been taking them since 1926 when the place opened. jjaba, Cass Tech. Class of 1959. jjaba. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4826 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 141.213.175.233 |
See, jjaba, if you made argument outside of the context of your tired and unfunny schtick, I would have a better time agreeing with you. And if you had made the argument without the repeated use of the term "racist pigs," your argument would have a little more credibility. Instead, you come off as a bitter old man on the westside with little grasp of the issue at hand. And I wish you'd realize that. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 39 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
Please refresh yourself on the definition of "remedial courses". The CSP Office does not offer remedial or even half way "remedial" courses. Supplemental instruction does not mean remedial. Furthermore, all courses offered through CSP are open to everyone who registers with the program. I know black and white and rich and poor people who were in that program. And please spare me the "we were all persecuted" rhetoric. That's a whole other subject that isn't even relevant to the topic at hand. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 539 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
AFAIK, UW-Madison only offers one remedial course: Math 95 (Math for dummy L&S majors). | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3712 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
The Aram knows jjaba loves him. jjaba is affect and content. It is really hard for jjaba to find a substitute for "racist pigs." Perhaps The Aram knows a better phrase. As for schtick, please Aram, don't reduce jjaba to a Jewish minstral entertaining you in blackface. Of all people on this Board, The Aram knows racism and discrimination. He doesn't want to be passed over either. jjaba is absolutely serious about his assertions, historically and today. He fought for civil rights and equal opportunities in Detroit in the 1960s, went to jail for it, but this affirmative action stuff is just "reverse racism." jjaba didn't invent that term either and it ain't schtick. Hey, jjaba didn't sue the UM while other schools have avoided law suits. But not UM. Imagne the Millions of $$$ we've paid for their lawyers. The University of Michigan is a Lawyers Annuity Fund, tis that bad. jjaba. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3713 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Livernoisyard, 3:42 AM? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!! jjaba, get some sleep. | ||
Zug Member Username: Zug Post Number: 124 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 207.74.177.130 |
Some of you are making WAY too many assumptions. I keep hearing people throw around the words "more qualified". What do you mean? Enlighten me. You are acting as if it is so obvious to say who is more qualified. A student who had to work 20 hours a week to help his family and earned a 3.7 seems more qualified to attend than a guy who pulled a 3.8 because he spent 20 hours a week with a tutor in addition to classes. This is an extreme example, but I think the circumstances around how you earn grades, etc. says as much about qualifications as anything. I would expect people in more perfect conditions to do better. So, environment does play a large role. If you don't think environment should matter, than try studying or doing work with a stereo blasting. Even if you are a genius, that would probably cause you to do worse. Being poor is more encompassing than that type of distraction. Imagine not knowing if you will have your home in a few months, having no money to afford consistent food, teachers and a society that look at you like a failure from the start, unreliable transportation to and from school, and many other possible factors. Then tell that student, you should be able to do as well as those with access to everything they need and more. So, yes, environment should be considered. Plus, you are also acting as if White people need a 4.0 and a 32 on the ACT to get accepted. If the average ACT of UofM is a 28, then that means HALF are at or below that...and guess what, it's not all Black Detroiters below a 28. If we perpetuate our biased system of classism (which is what I've been arguing about), then how do you ever expect people in lower classes to advance. I understand, though. When the status quo benefits you then you probably wouldn't want change. Some of you almost make me wish UofM accept the best students based only on GPA, SAT or ACT. Regardless of where they are from. Then when UofM is almost entirely out-of-state and international students I don't want to hear any complaints. Why should Michiganders be given special privaledges. (Message edited by Zug on April 26, 2006) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3715 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Zug, you kicked jjaba's ass. Your post is so right on the money about poverty. And so right on the money about Michigan preference. There, jjaba is right with you. New York, Massachusetts, N.J., Illinois, Ohio, Indiana, all have excellent public schools. Let them go there. Long ago, the Univ. of Michigan decided it would be a "Private" college. It jacks prices to look like Harvard or Yale. It likes petrol oil students or others from exotic places. This is what Michigan taxpayers have hired in Ann Arbor, at their State University. This ain't right either. Zug, your advocacy for the poor is admirable and not in conflict with jjaba. It is racial profiling that jjaba doesn't like. jjaba. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 543 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
jjaba: I can do my thing pretty much 24/7. So, I might be awake (sorta) at 3:42 AM, but asleep at 3:42 PM. But not today... | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 43 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
Jjaba, I highly doubt you or any other Michigan taxpayer put a dime into any lawyer's pocket who was defending the UM in its court battles. The state of Michigan has long ago stopped being an adequate source of funding for the University. Even that recent BS in the newspapers about U-M's projects not being approved by the state is exactly that, bullshit. The state of Michigan hasn't put one solitary DIME into any of those projects that they were complaining about at the UM. Those projects were entirely funded through private money. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3721 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
So much has been litigated about the Univ. of Michigan's admissions policies, both undergrad, medical and law schools just for a starter. You could write a PhD thesis about it for your sociology degree. 250 newspapers alone have written about it. The Univ.of Mich. has a reputation, sad but true. jjaba. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1162 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.42.251.225 |
The University of Michigan has a reputation for excellence. That's the bottom line. That's what keeps the doors open. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4827 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
jjaba severely overestimates the impact the AA debate has had on the University and lets his obsession with the topic and astounding ignorance and misinformation of the current situation cloud his judgment on the excellence of the University. The AA debate doesn't seem to be impacting applications, as UM is still attracting thousands more applications than there are spots. Still plenty of folks who want in. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3724 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
jjaba appreciates the excellent education going on at UM. Why should he argue with The Rock or The Aram? But this thread is about UM-Cass Tech. admissions so jjaba has kept faithful to the topic. No doubt about it, you don't get accepted there if you're a chump. Your advocacy is appreciated. jjaba. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 500 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.87 |
Zug, you're fighting a losing battle. Amongst my cohort, I had higher GRE scores, have taken more courses this year, and am the first to pass the first milestone exam. I also went to more conferences, etc. All while working at a regular teaching job because unlike every other person I attend classes with, I have no college-educated husband, Mommy can't afford to help me, and Daddy has been in the ground for the better part of a decade. Did I mention that I'm the only person of color in my particular grad program? Blacks and Latinos like me aren't supposed to exist. Yet I WOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED without affirmative action, because minority programs like DAPCEP, Super Saturdays at Wayne State, now-defunct summer science research programs @ Michigan, and the Midwest Talent Search HELPED ME earn 99th percentile standardized test scores on the ACT and GRE. Sorry, but my poor parents had no money for Kaplan courses, trips to Quebec or Paris to learn French, and piano/ballet lessons. I studied at home and in the library, and did the best I could. (It was also kind of distracting trying to study for the SAT while someone tried to carjack my dad outside the house. True story.) As for poor white and Asian kids, I think that yes, affirmative action ought to be adjusted to accomodate them so long as net worth and not income is the determining factor. I have no problem with class-based affirmative action, because I hold little love for the black elite and don't think their kids deserve automatic admission to the Ivies. Bring it on. (Yet, this country won't. The last thing the powers that be want is for poor folks to stop worrying so much about race.) I'll vote against MCRI just on general principle, but a small part of me kind of wants it to pass, just so the Neanderthal yahoos around this forsaken state can STFU with their whining. Although judging from some of the folks here and elsewhere, I doubt if that even happens. | ||
English Member Username: English Post Number: 502 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.87 |
Oh, to bring it back to Cass Tech: I see many of my former Cass Tech students on campus up here all the time. I also saw the articles. Long overdue praise for a great school. Although I'm a Phoenix myself, my family includes CT graduates of the classes of 1932, 1979, 1984, and 1985. Back to lurking. | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 3378 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.183.20 |
there she goes bragging about herself yet again...I I I. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3755 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
You go English. Keep on keeping on. It was unclear if you are UM or WSU. They may let you in, but sure as hell, nobody ain't gonna just hand you a diploma. jjaba. |
