Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 SMART August property tax renewal YES or NO Previous Next
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 12:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please learn the facts before you vote on this.
http://savethefueltax.org

Mcp001 are you aware of the facts? At Livonia city hall, the residents were told repeatedly that we must replace the tax on fuel with other tax mechanisms. The purpose of my website to stop both federal and state transit cuts by a public petition. Im only against the SMART property tax because it replaces the tax on fuel which is stupid and will cost our region many lost opportunities. I'm protesting freeway expansions because they should not be built without properly funding existing mass transit. I want to get people to debate me on television, so please leave comments on my website.

(Message edited by trainman on April 23, 2006)

(Message edited by trainman on April 23, 2006)
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Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 2129
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.14.135.95
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 11:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm sorry, but Mr. Leese is shilling for what?
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Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 932
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 11:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SMART millage...absolutely yes. Some mass transit is better than no mass transit. It is easier to work with something than nothing.
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Sunday, April 23, 2006 - 11:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bob, you are right. My concern is not the SMART millage but those who want to abolish state CTF funds to operate public bus service and replace them with a tax on fast food. These people often rely on voter apathy and false propaganda. The state of New York currently spends 16% of their fuel tax on transit, allows competition and get much more money from passenger fares. Ive increased rider-ship in Livonia and wanted SMART to stay but unfortunately the efforts to protect existing funds and improve bus service were not enough. Im very confident that southeast Michigan can have a good public mass transit system but we must all do more to make good use of limited tax dollars and work together to achieve this goal. Otherwise, transit tax increases will likely do more harm then good.
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Detroitman
Member
Username: Detroitman

Post Number: 968
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 216.78.41.215
Posted on Monday, April 24, 2006 - 7:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While I think this is a good plan, considering the state of the area's economy I don't thinking pushing a plan to raise the sales tax is good idea at this point. Maybe in 2-3 years.

Plan would let counties raise sales tax for transit

State lawmaker wants effort to generate funds for mass transportation to get onto Nov. ballot.

Joel Kurth / The Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060424/P OLITICS/604240334/1016
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Mcp001
Member
Username: Mcp001

Post Number: 2135
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.14.135.95
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 7:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You've obviously never filled up a tank of gas recently.

I'd hate to see your response to those on limited/fixed incomes who are trying to make it on their own.
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Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 938
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 8:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What will be interesting will be to see since it is obvious gas prices will continue to rise, will people actually start riding our busses in greater numbers. Will this finally be the thing that pushes Metro Detroit to improve transit?
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 133
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 12:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I will ride the bus when there's decent bus service. To go downtown, it's good and convenient. But for me to go to work, here's what I have to do:

Walk 1/2 mile down 9 mile to Woodward, take Woodward bus north to Royal Oak Transit Center, take 10 mile bus to Evergreen and then walk 1 mile. Total time, something around an hour, and costing $3.50 a day.

OR, I could drive 7 miles (each way), in 15 minutes, costing around $1.60 per day.

I want to take the bus, it just doesn't make any damn sense.

I guess what I should say is that I'll ride the bus when it makes time and economic sense.

(Message edited by focusonthed on April 25, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 526
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 1:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Being one of an ever growing number (currently 20%) of those who telecommute, I don't much need transportation. I walk a lot if my destination is less than two miles (even for groceries), but I can go places at times via car and very infrequently by DDOT/SMART. So, is paying an additional millage tacked to an already high rate for more public transportation in my interest? Most probably not.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on April 25, 2006)
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Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 316
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 1:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Focus, I agree your transit trip seems inconvenient. However, there is no way that your trip costs only $1.60 per day. Do you mean that your trip to work costs you $1.60 per day in gasoline?

The Government of Canada reimburses employees who use their own cars for government business at approx. $0.50 per kilometer. This rate -- established by actuaries -- reflects the cost of gas, oil changes, wear and tear, devaluation, insurance, etc.

Since 14 miles is about 22.5 km, a better estimate is that it costs $11.25 cdn or about $9.50 USD for your trip to work.

Granted for $6 a day you are saving 45 minutes.
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Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 19
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 1:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drivers already subsize transit through the fuel tax. Property owners do get some benefits from having transit in their towns. People who do not drive, but use transit need a way to contribute to operating the cost of the service as well.

The main beneficiaries of transit are the poor, and in places like Livonia it is the elderly and handicapped. Transit allows them to fourish in society, attend senior meetings, doctors appointments with some assembence of dignity and independance.

We will need this property tax as a source to improve transit once DARTA is in place and the SEMCOG Transit plan gets implemented. Under current political realities it is hard to get any tax passed and easy to get one appealed. I would hesitate following Trainman's advice as it will actually be a disservie to getting trains or any higher form of transit to the region.

The City of Livonia is not exactly the role model to follow for improving regional transit. They will have to deal with the decreases in students at Madonna or Schoolcraft due to lack of transportation. They will have to deal with serious problems with service employers not being able to hire or keep lower paid workers.

To cut a tax that costs the average suburban taxpayer $30 to $45 a year that provides services to the community will have a negative implication on housing costs, particularly in an older suburb like livonia where you are seeing malls close and population shrink.

Where have you seen a proposal for the abolishing of the Comprehensive Transportation Fund (gas tax) AND a tax on fast food?
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 134
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 2:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upinottawa, yes, sorry, I am only calculating fuel costs. Since my car is paid for and I don't intend to sell it for quite some time, I do not factor in depreciation. Oil changes run about $0.08 per day, and tires about $0.10. As this isn't New York, I would need my car anyway, so I would be paying insurance regardless. Any other expenses are so infrequent or unpredictable that I classify them as "one-time"
So in my particular circumstances (your results may vary, I drive a small car, etc) it still doesn't make sense.

Too bad too, because I had more transportation options when I commuted 60 miles downtown than I do commuting 7 miles to Southfield.

(Message edited by focusonthed on April 25, 2006)
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Trufan
Member
Username: Trufan

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 138.28.212.237
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 4:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Focus: Remember you can buy a bus pass that allows you to ride smart and DDOT for under 50 dollars/month. If you take the bus to work and back 5 days a week, thats about 20 days, which means it would cost you 2.50 per day, plus once you have a bus pass you'd be amazed how much use you can get out of it. Leisurly trips to the mall, bar hopping without a designated driver, see a game downtown. If you did that all via ddot and smart, you would save a lot more than $50 dollars. Below gives you all the information on where you can buy bus passes. Also you can visit www.detroittransit.org for more information about riding the bus.

DDOT Bus Pass outlets

Where can you purchase a bus pass? All pass cards may be purchased at the following locations:

DDOT Administrative Office
1301 E. Warren Ave.
Detroit, MI 48207
Monday, Wednesday and Friday: 8:15 a.m. - 3:45 p.m.
Tuesday and Thursday: 8:15 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.

Cadillac Tower Lobby Store
65 Cadillac Square
Monday - Friday: 7:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.

Capitol Park (Smokers Bargain)
Monday - Saturday: 10:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Coolidge Terminal
14044 Schaefer
Detroit, MI 48227
Monday - Saturday: 8:00 a.m. - 8:00 p.m.
Sunday: 10:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Gilbert Terminal
5600 Wabash
Detroit, MI 48208
Monday - Saturday: 10:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.

Mobil Gas Station
1001 E. Warren Ave.
Detroit, MI
Open 24 hours/day, 7 days/week

SMART Bus Pass Outlets

You can purchase SMART 31 Day Bus Passes, SMART Value Passes, D-DOT/SMART Regional Passes and D-DOT Go Passes by mail or at the following participating outlets.

SMART Transit Center
First National Bldg., 660 Woodward Avenue, Detroit, MI 48226
Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.

Royal Oak Transit Center
202 Sherman Drive, Royal Oak, MI 48067
Monday through Friday 8:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m.
Saturday 9:00 a.m. to Noon

SMART Macomb Terminal
22900 Fifteen Mile Rd., Clinton Township, MI 48035
Monday through Friday - 8:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.

SMART Oakland Terminal
2021 Barrett St., Troy, MI 48084
Monday through Friday - 8:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.

SMART Wayne Terminal
30000 Industrial Drive, Inkster, MI 48141
Monday through Friday - 8:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.

Cash Connection**
7627 9 Mile Road, Warren, MI 48091

Comerica - Detroit branches**
Fisher Building
Fort and Washington Boulevard
One Detroit Center - Larned at Woodward
Renaissance Center - Tower 100

Comerica - Suburban branches**
Michigan and Neckel, Dearborn
Southland Shopping Center, Taylor
Van Dyke and 16 Mile Road, Sterling Heights
Woodward and Hamilton, Birmingham

Double D Lottery*
28 N. Saginaw, BankOne Building
Pontiac, MI 48342

Great Lakes Crossing*
Near Customer Service Center,
Town and Country entrance, Auburn Hills

Kmart Corporation (SMART Value Passes Only)
2101 Telegraph, Bloomfield Hills
29101 John R. Road, Madison Heights
16705 Fort Street, Southgate
100 East Maple, Troy

Livonia City Hall**
33000 Civic Center Drive, Livonia

Oak Park Community Center**
14300 Oak Park Boulevard, Oak Park

Wayne State University**
Student Center Building, Room 211,
5221 Gullen Mall, Detroit

*SMART 31 Day & Value Passes Only

**D-DOT Go Pass Not Available
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 136
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 6:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also remember the terrible inconvenience. Like I said, if I worked downtown, I'd use it everyday, and not pay for parking. Since I don't (and don't pay for parking) it's extra money and a great inconvenience.

But anyway, back on topic. In spite of all that I've said, YES.

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