  Wilus1mj Member Username: Wilus1mj Post Number: 53 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 216.111.89.3 |
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/c gi-bin/news.pl?newsId=8226 I still need to see pictures of this one to see if this plan is better? | ||
Chow Member Username: Chow Post Number: 271 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.109.26.164 |
"Greektown Casino L.L.C. plans to build its 20-story, 400-room hotel atop the 13-story parking garage proposed to replace the city’s Foster-Winter garage on Monroe Street." One step forward, two steps back... | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1028 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.1.1.33 |
Really, it just depends on what the building looks like. Nothing wrong with building on top of the parking garage if they can somehow make it look decent (which may not be easy). I suppose one bonus of this plan (for Greektown Casino) is that they end up with a taller, higher profile building. | ||
Collective Member Username: Collective Post Number: 325 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.30.187.185 |
33 stories is quite impressive and high profile. Very visible for miles. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1286 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
13 stories of parking?!?!?! Well, at least the whole sha-bang will be tall and dense. Why not go with some underground parking. This will be very interesting to see how they pull this off. It will look decent and increase the density and size of the Greektown scene by adding a block of retail. This is the best news. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 622 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
33 stories, nice. Obviously, they will have to make the building presentable atop a parking garage. They know this, so I wouldnt worry too much about the overall look of the building | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 508 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
I would think that would be especially valuable to a casino. Interesting. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 800 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.227.85.198 |
hey gambling man; when lavdas opens inside the casino, is the casino going to expand over that parking lot and where the current store is? right up against the old st. mary's school? | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 993 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
I saw that the apartment building's first-floor windows that face Hastings were boarded up today. Evidently that one is coming down soon. No great loss. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1491 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
The prospects for an exciting lobby bar just greatly increased. | ||
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289 Post Number: 1070 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223 |
"The city-owned parking garage and an adjoining apartment building on the service drive are to be demolished and replaced by the casino’s 5,300-space garage topped by the hotel" Thats ALOT of parking spaces... so much for trying to boost the foot traffic in the area... | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3380 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
This is definitely better than the old plan which had a separate structure for the hotel and parking structure. Anything that saves more land downtown for future development is great. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 583 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
An article in Crains from Sept. 13 states that the garage was going to be 3,500 spaces. I wonder why the uprgade? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3382 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
The church wouldn't sell part of its land. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 22, 2006) | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 585 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
I meant in the size of the proposed parking component. From 3,500 to 5,300 - and on the same spot. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3387 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I assume they are simply replacing some of the city parking, as well as adding the casino parking. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 587 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Could be. I really can't wait to see the design. It will be challenging for them. I just hope the ground floor is really something nice. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1288 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
Does the St. Mary School bldg. house anything right now? If not, what are the possibilities for adaptive reuse? | ||
Commodore64 Member Username: Commodore64 Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.65.11.254 |
That Foster garage needs to go. That place is the most disgusting disgrace I have ever seen. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1301 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.148.226.17 |
A lot of cities have newer buildings with parking on the ground floors. Unless someone told you it was parking, you'd probably never notice driving or walking by that the first several floors were a parking ramp. The Dorsey Whitney Building (also known as 50 S. 6th) in Minneapolis is a good example. The bottom 7 or 8 floors are parking and the building is located on prime downtown real estate on the highly successful pedestrian mall. The street level floor is retail, of course, so you hardly notice the parking. Here's a link to it on Emporis: http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/b u/?id=100784 If something like this came to Greektown, I'm sure no one would have any problems with it. I wonder if the casino could reduce the number of above ground parking levels by going underground? Not too many buildings in Detroit go underground, but in most cities they do this out of economic neccessity to fit as much parking in as possible. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3396 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
They could probably put 3-4 floors underground, but most underground lots don't go much deeper than that, and especially not in downtown like Detroit where landvalues aren't nearly as high as a Chicago or New York. It wouldn't be a huge difference. | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 101 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.40.205.183 |
Anybody know anything about the apartment bldg that would be demolished? Otherwise, a new 33+ story building downtown is exciting. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 376 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
If looks like that building in Minny I'll be more than happy. I'm praying that the thing doesn't end up looking like Trolley Plaza | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1305 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.148.226.17 |
The apartment building is/was a senior citizen's affordable housing complex. It sounds terrible to put a bunch of poor, old people out but there are plenty of vacancies in comprable complexes that these folks can/did go to in the area. Because the casino project involves government regulation and the apt. complex is involved with government regulation, all residents had their moving costs as well as money just for the inconvenience of having to move paid by either the casino or the apt. building owners. So all sides have likely ended up ahead in the end. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 17 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
The Minnesota building is 404ft at 30 stories tall, and were talking 3 stories taller. Do you think the new design could break into Detroit's top 10 tallest? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3400 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
The Minnesota building? Which one? As for the rest of the questions, no. We're talking a hotel, here, with maybe a max of 12 feet per floor, and more likely 10 feet (hotel and residential generally have signicantly lower floor heights than office towers). We're talking anything from 330 feet to probably 400 feet at the very most, unless there is some large decorative crown or spire. (Message edited by lmichigan on March 22, 2006) | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 18 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
I was talking about the one in the link in Bvo's post. He put it up because it has a similar setup to this one, being built above parking. Thats why I was thinking something comparable might be around 430'. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3402 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Yeah, but again, it's an office building which usually have noticable larger floor-to-floor heights. Hotels and residential towers average around 10-12 feet for new hotels (slightly less for historic hotels). Actually, the RenCen's floor-to-floor height is 9.33 feet, about 10 feet for the Hilton Garden Inn, 10.5 feet for the Marriott at Millender Center...I'm guessing this will be like your average hotel with a max of 11 feet floor-to-floor heights topping us at around 360-370 feet, and maybe 20-30 more feet for rooftop signage crown putting it at 400 feet maximum total. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 19 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
I didn't realize that there was that significant a difference between hotel and office design. Thanks for clearing that up Lmich! | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 204.24.64.25 |
But don't forget the bottom 13 floors are parking. They will be a little more than 11' floor to floor: 12'- 13'. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 968 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
but don't forget the first 13 floors are going to be a parking garage. I would assume they would have more hieght per floor. | ||
Dnvn522 Member Username: Dnvn522 Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 204.24.64.25 |
 Great minds think alike. | ||
1953 Member Username: 1953 Post Number: 738 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.104.146.146 |
Why not put the parking on top?;) | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1495 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Now THAT'S the DetroitYes I know and love! ;) | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1477 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
"I meant in the size of the proposed parking component. From 3,500 to 5,300 - and on the same spot." Matt - my guess for what it's worth - transposition of numbers. I like the Minn building. I think what makes it work is that the retail base is two, maybe three stories... and has an open glass facade that gives life to the lower part of the building. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 679 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Rsa, we will be "expanding" into the space where Lavdas was/is.....but not actual casino space, we will have a larger dock area, with retail on the Monroe Street side. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 680 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Let me answer a couple of questions, the church school building has already been acquired by us...the "adaptive re-use" will be as a pass-thru to the casino along with some office space/potential restaraunt space. Also, Llyn is correct, there has been some transposition on the parking numbers, although we are not certain the number we will be able to get yet, with the new plans. No good drawings yet. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1320 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.34 |
The Mpls. building has two levels of retail: ground floor and Skyway (second floor) level. The entire downtown is connected on the second floor by enclosed bridges to allow folks to get around during the sub-zero winters. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7040 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
And that is funded by a statewide tax that goes to Minneapolis. Imagine trying that in Michigan. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1325 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.34 |
I've never heard that the skyway is funded by tax dollars. As far as I know each are privately funded by the owners of the buildings they're attached to. The economics of the skyways don't require subsidies. If you can show me proof otherwise, I'll happily change my beliefs. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7043 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.251.24 |
It may not go directly to the skywalk then but there is a statewide tax that is money earmarked specifically for Minneapolis. I may be wrong that it goes for skywalks but it definitely goes to the city. | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1326 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.34 |
Yes, a lot of state money goes to the Twin Cities (both Mpls & St. Paul). That's because it serves as the center of the state for government, commerce, entertainment, education, etc. So they view it as only fair that the whole state pay for it since they're all using it (and yes, every Minnesotan really does go physically visit "the cities"). Very similar to how US tax payers finance most of DC due to the large number of folks not from DC doing business, visiting, etc. | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 54 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.73.228.13 |
can someone post a map to where this will be going? I am still trying to picture it. | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1016 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 24.221.73.42 |
Pardon the crude map, but it was the best I could do with the programs I have at my disposal at work. Gotta love Microsoft Paint! http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6864/map4cn.jpg (Message edited by Matt on March 23, 2006) | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 55 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.73.228.13 |
thanks Matt | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3411 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
By transposition, do you guys simply mean what I said in that the parking spaces have been increased to absorb some or all (I'm not sure how big the Foster is) of the municipal spaces that will be loss? Break it down for this layman. Also, Gambling Man, is the new Greektown design postmodern, or is it more steel and glass? I'm wondering if they didn't simply stack the last design shown by Rossetti ontop of a parking garage. I'm excited to see how this all turns out. However it does it will actually add another true skyscraper to the skyline, and at its location will be very noticable. In fact, it will probably be taller than the nearby Blue Cross Blue Shield Building, which is easily visible from Belle Isle and other views of the skyline. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 380 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
No, you're reading a little too much into it Crains was wrong when they wrote 5,300 spaces instead of 3,500 | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3415 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I wasn't reading too much, I just don't have a full understanding of the word "transposition." lol | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 526 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 68.2.191.57 |
transposition of digits = swapping the positions of the 3 and the 5. Crain's made a mistake like that?! | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 590 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
I was getting ready to delve into the quantum mechanics of parking space dimensions as it might get transposed from one proposal to the next - taking into account the site dimensions, height, building materials, demagraghics of what visitors are most likely to drive, and most importantly - the weather forecasts for next 50 years according to the farmer's almanac. But I guess a typo will do. (Message edited by Matt the Deuce on March 23, 2006) | ||
Jdkeepsmiling Member Username: Jdkeepsmiling Post Number: 76 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 69.216.122.110 |
Build that schiiiiiittt UP!!! | ||
El_rey_de_la_ciudad Member Username: El_rey_de_la_ciudad Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Is the proposed New Greektown Casino site anywhere near greektown ? Not sure where monroe street is. lol | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 381 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
It's very near since Greektown is along Monroe | ||
Mcpd1300 Member Username: Mcpd1300 Post Number: 83 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 68.42.175.57 |
In fact, it's so close to Greektown, one might even say it's IN Greektown. | ||
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw Post Number: 138 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 148.61.248.170 |
^ lol. Greektown isn't generally tall, so this will stick out even more. If the design is good then this is all really cool. I hope it's not something that I want to be demolished, like most of the tall buildings from the last 40 years... I hope it has some character and vibrancy to it too. Something too clean and sterile would be bad, imo. | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 120 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 68.43.156.135 |
I'm with you there Jdkeepsmiling!!! I'll bring the legos!! | ||
Bvos Member Username: Bvos Post Number: 1333 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.238.170.34 |
Here's an article from the Freep that gives some more details: http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=/20060324/NEWS01/ 603240345/0/NEWS11 It looks like they're still set on those elevated moving walkways that will kill any possible street life. I guess they want to take care of the gamblers in the Hovarounds and the oxygen tanks (ever notice how there seems to be a disproportionate number of these folks at the casinos?). Another curious thing is that they're saying the casino will hang over half of Lafayette. What's this all about? Strange thing to have. It will be interesting to see the renderings and rationale behind this. I'd be surprised if the planning commission & dept. approved that. | ||
Restoretheroar Member Username: Restoretheroar Post Number: 673 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 199.67.138.84 |
I wonder if this will drag out as the original time the casino proposed a tall tower- the Greektown district put up a fight because they didn't want that much height in the area so the plans were scaled back. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2827 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 136.181.195.65 |
Bvos, there's nothing new to the the Lafayette overhang proposal; it was announced when they said they would stay in Greektown. I am having a hard time imagining such a building looking good. | ||
Detroitkev Member Username: Detroitkev Post Number: 56 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 70.88.123.166 |
Are you sure it was Greektown that put up a fight about the height? I thought it was Ford Field, and Harmonie Park that complained about the height. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 20 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
"In early 2003 pressure from neighboring civic groups and Ford Field have reduced this project's height from the originally-proposed 40 floors." http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/b u/?id=153330 | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1919 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.90.23 |
That picture is of the casino plan for the 8.75 acre Gratiot/Chrysler Fwy. location. Since they announced that they wouldn't move to that location, that design is scrapped. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1006 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
"It looks like they're still set on those elevated moving walkways that will kill any possible street life. I guess they want to take care of the gamblers in the Hovarounds and the oxygen tanks..." You miss the whole point. Gamblers DO NOT WANT to venture outside the casino complex. They don't want to be part of "street life." They want convenience and easy parking. They want to park, walk a few steps to get to the casino, stay there most of the day, and then walk a few steps to their cars... and then leave, driving back to their homes (most Detroit gamblers are locals). That's all they want; they don't want to be part of the hip local scene or contribute to any perceived urban vibrancy. Greektown's lack of an attached, more convenient garage has cost the casino revenue and popularity since Day One. It's going to be inconvenient enough for them in the Greektown casino that they'll still have to leave the building to eat (most casinos have restaurants inside). That will still be considered a drawback to choosing Greektown over Motor City or MGM, in gamblers' minds. Ideally, the whole point of a casino -- the way most of them are designed -- is to keep the gamblers' money INSIDE the casino, and not to let it stray outside to area restaurants and shops. You may not understand it, but the gamblers prefer it that way, too. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 21 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
Gistok, I posted that in response to the two posts above it. | ||
623kraw Member Username: 623kraw Post Number: 851 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200 |
Which rendered the destruction of this meaningless:  | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1550 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Gambling_man, a walk through will go through the school, WTF? Why not just tear the school building down and build the hotel there if the casino is going to violate this old structure in such a way? I mean please. First a 13 story parking deck with a 20 story hotel on top and now a sky-walk that's going to go through the school. I believe it was Gistok who reminded us of the unique architecture of the school building. At first I thought the hotel should go there and the school be torn down. However, given its unique architecture and age I agree with Gistok that it should be saved. A move to another location would solve the problem. Gambling_man, you and the Greetown casino are some selfish individuals. You make 335 million dollars a year, yet are pissed off with the fact that you don't make more than MGM and Motorcity. Every damn idea that you folks have come up with has been lame. I hope sincerely that the zoning commission turns this entire permanent casino proposal down and tells you folks to get your heads out of the sand and come up with something that will benefit the surrounding COMMUNITY. BTW, people, a building with 30 stories will stick out like a sore thumb in that area. Think about the height of one of the office towers(40 stories) at the RenCen to get a sense of how imposing a building like this will be. Nothing built in Greektown should be a size that superimposes the Blue Cross HQ. Nothing. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 3843 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.176 |
Annunciation Greek Orthodox Cathedral!!! DON'T SELL your church to those sinners. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!! | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1484 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
^ ^ ^ I_________ Genuinely funny! | ||
Llyn Member Username: Llyn Post Number: 1485 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 68.61.197.206 |
Royce, give the guy a break, will ya? Besides: 1) Greektown doesn't "make" 335 million a year. That's revenue before taxes, operations, and payment to those two Greek guys. I'm sure it's a money making operation, but your number is not even remotely describing profit. 2) Greektown casino is not an individual, despite US corporate law definitions. Calling a corporation selfish is like saying "that's the truth". Capitalism 101. 3) I'm inclined to agree with you opinion that we should save any building architecturally worth saving if at all possible. I don't have an opinion on the school because I can't place it. But, c'mon, calling someone selfish for having a different opinion on it may be a bit of a reach. 4) But I get the feeling that you are never wrong about anything. (Message edited by llyn on March 25, 2006) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 1293 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 141.213.173.94 |
It wasn't the Annunciation Cathedral itself that was on the selling block, Danny. But yeah that casino and all of its debauchery would be hovering right over the place of worship basically, even closer than the current building is to St. Mary's. There's nothing wrong with building up in Greektown. I would not side with those that are saying that this project is too imposing. The fact that there is a big tower will not remove the fact that Greektown is also a small-scale district. This will be aided by the first-floor storefronts of the new building, which will effectively extend Greektown to three blocks. And unlike One Kennedy or Compuware, this building should actually make a mark our skyline. Although from many angles it will hide behind the Ren Cen. Keep the St. Mary's School building. Removing it will take something away from Greektown's character. The mix of new and old on Monroe St. is awesome. (Message edited by mackinaw on March 25, 2006) | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1679 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.42.172.120 |
Royce I have a question for you and I am not trying to start an argument but I need to know for my own sanity. Are you this stupid in real life or just playing a role on this forum? | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1552 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Merchantgander, I'm starting to believe you live in Dunceville and simply don't have the capacity to understand higher-order thinking. You don't like my opinions. Fine. However, you never have a rebuttal to dispute my opinions, just name calling. What college did you get your degree from? Oh, right, Dunceville College. In the future, Merchantgander, try to offer something more than just insults. Also, if you don't understand something try asking for clarity. All the insults just point to someone who's unwilling to think critically. Llyn, the Free Press article gave the number I quoted. Yes it's revenue and not profit, but they also gave the revenue figures for the other two casinos. Where do you think the Free Press was able to get these numbers from? Right, the casinos. If the casinos want the public to no how meager their profits are then they would have released those numbers as well. Sorry if I don't have any sympathy for Greektown Casino. They are in the best location of the three casinos and they are making money. However, instead of sharing the wealth with the rest of the Greektown neighborhood, they want to hog everything. Why can't they accept that they are not MGM and Motorcity when it comes to size and other amenities? Are those casinos building 30 story hotels? No. They aren't exactly hurting when you look at their yearly revenue. "Greektown Casino, show the profit figures if you want me to feel for how cash strapped you are?" If you don't want to do that then STFU. BTW, what the hell does Greektown Casino need with a 1200 seat theater? Oh, right. They want to hog the entertainment dollars of downtown Detroit as well. Where's the love and respect for the theater district? | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 387 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
God you are a dumbass you never know what the fuck you're talking about. First, MGM and MotorCity are spread over tens of acres of land so they don't need a 30 story hotel. Greektown is land locked compared to them, that's what happens in cities when land tight you build up. Secondly, the casino agreement for ALL casinos with the city require that they have theatres and convention space, etc because they didn't just want them to be gaming halls. You have no business telling someone else to think critically when you obviously lack that skill | ||
Mcpd1300 Member Username: Mcpd1300 Post Number: 89 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 68.42.175.57 |
Quite frankly, I have to agree with Eric as well... The more attractions to bring people downtown, the better. Bring more theatre seats to downtown... Gives more shows an opportunity to bring their acts to town. And yeah, where the hell else is Greektown going to build but up? You bitch that they're building up, but you'd be bitching if they moved the casino out of Greektown to a larger parcel of land... and you'd most certainly be bitching if they knocked down more buildings! | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1553 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Eric, Greektown does not have to be like MGM or Motorcity to make money. Every proposal they have come up with has been outlandish. Yes it's true they don't have the space where they are. However, when they did acquire more space at the Gratiot/I-375 location they passed it up. Why? Wasn't it because they didn't have the money to build up that large parcel of land? Also, what's wrong with reducing the number of parking spaces to make more room for a hotel that wouldn't have to be built so high. There are plenty of parking spaces in and around Greektown. Do they have to monopolize all of it? Damn, Eric, you and Merchantgander must be some greedy bastards who think it is perfectly alright to fuck up a thriving neighborhood with a way too tall hotel/parking deck and the hogging of parking spaces for a bunch of lazy, scary ass suburbanites. I can tell that the two of you didn't go to architectural school or have any artistic taste. I know, it's not needed when all that matters is the pursuit of the almighty dollar. How pathetic. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3428 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Man, Royce. You REALLY have this one wrong this time, especially considering that this hotel and casino are at the very end of Greektown, and that the hotel and parking structure are being built on a site that currently offers less to Greektown than the casino/hotel, will. I agree with Mcpd, as well. You'd be crying foul if they decided to move outside of downtown and built a shorter hotel and more sprawling casino. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1041 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.42.84 |
Royce, you are being rather hard on Greektown Casino here, given that they are pretty much the only casino that contributes to street life in Detroit. Granted, most casino goers there may just stay inside and go to their cars to leave, but some do go out to the restaurants on Monroe. MGM and Motor City add exactly zero to surrounding street life. Given that, Greektown is probably the only casino I would ever take a visiting friend or relative to. The proposed 33-story tower will actually probably be better for the Greektown district than the original plan at Gratiot & 375. The hotel and the first floor retail around the building will help the district. (Sometimes non-gamblers will want to stay at a hotel in a walkable district downtown.) Really, the only downside I can think of is that the elevated walkways may look kind of dorky, but overall it doesn't sound like a bad plan. (Message edited by Dougw on March 25, 2006) | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1554 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Lmichigan, I don't have a problem with the proposed site housing the hotel and parking. I question the need to build a parking deck with 3100 spaces that results in a hotel that towers over everything in that area. Wasn't that the problem that other merchants along Gratiot/I-375 had with Greektown proposing to build a 40 story hotel at that site? Well, can somebody refresh my memory on why Greektown decided not to build there? My other problem is in gutting the St. Mary's school to make a walkway from this proposed hotel to the casino itself. Why desecrate a historic building? This is as bad as putting a whole through the Statue of Liberty just so that you can see through it. Tear it down or move it but do not disfigure the building to make a simple walkway, when all people have to do is walk about 70 yards to get to the casino. Also, I don't like the expansion of the casino over Lafayette Street. It will block the views of people in surrounding buildings. Forget about seeing the sunrise if you live in the building that houses the Loco Bar and Nikki's Pizza. Forget about seeing the sunset if you are sitting in Flood's Bar and Grille. Also, that overhang will trap all of the bus and car fumes from the valet parking section. I'm sure people waiting in that area will enjoy breathing in those fumes, especially those old people on ventilators. And my final complaint is the expansion of the casino so that they can have a 1200 seat theatre. Don't we already have theaters in the area to put on stageshows and musical acts. Oh, I can think of a few: the Fox, Music Hall, Opera House, and State Theater. In my opinion this current plan for a permanent Greektown Casino, hotel, and parking structure negatively impacts the Greektown area more than it enhances it. Like I have said before, Greektown Casino has a great thing going and they are simply being greedy and selfish when it comes down to what's best for the Greektown area. I firmly believe that the zoning commission will tell them to alter this latest plan because the commission will see the shortcomings in it. Hey, if they accept it, then I'll just have to eat crow, and I know some of you will love to see that. BTW, for all of you who don't have a problem with the height of the hotel/parking deck, imagine the Broderick Tower but wider on the corner of St. Antoine and Monroe. That's what you will have. And for you, Eric, of course I know that they don't have the land to spread out the hotel and keep its height lower. However, 33 stories is necessary if the Greektown Casino people believe that they have to have all of that parking. Take some of the parking out and you can have a hotel/parking structure that does not have to be 33 stories tall. Did you, Eric, and your friend Merchantgander every think about that as a possibility? Somebody feeds you some shit they claim is gold and you just accept it as it is, no questions asked. How gullible. (Message edited by royce on March 25, 2006) | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 556 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
How does adding a skywalk to the old school building "violate" the building in a terrible way? The International Center in Greektown has a skyway connecting it to the garage across the street, and it looks fine. At least wait to see the renderings before you start ranting about how horrible the project is. | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2833 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.209.177.70 |
"And my final complaint is the expansion of the casino so that they can have a 1200 seat theatre." You're about 10 years too late to start complaining about the casinos having theaters. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 557 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
What would be the point in taking out half the parking? Cutting 7 floors off the garage still gives you a 26 story building. A 26 story building will have the same look and impact as a 33 story building. Cutting off a few floors will have no noticeable effect. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1555 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Given the length of the entire block of the proposed site, how many parking spaces can you have on the ground level if it was just a huge surface parking lot? Now add that number and go up to a second level, and then a third, etc....Now I can see a deck four stories high with the hotel on top, and if you spread the hotel out the length of the block you lower the height. That would be more to scale with the neighborhood than a 33 story monstrosity. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3429 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I can't believe you are complaining about the height. There is nearly nowhere in Detroit at the moment where a high-rise wouldn't be acceptable. Greektown hotel tower, again, will be at the very eastern edge of the district, which makes a huge difference, in my book. It's not like they are tearing down historic storefronts in the heart of the district and putting up a tower, this is at the edge right at the freeway. I can't believe some people are complaining about this being too tall. "Too tall" shouldn't even be spoken in a city who's skyline hasn't been significantly changed for years. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 544 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.169.65 |
I'm with you Lmichigan. Doesn't seem like it would be bad to me. So yeah, everybody quit the griping and let's get this downtown built up. later - naturalsister | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 995 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
I think it will look like a giant middle finger aimed at Royce. FU look at the tall building. lol. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1556 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
BTW, how tall is the Windsor Casino hotel? | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 545 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.169.65 |
I'm with you Lmichigan. Doesn't seem like it would be bad to me. So yeah, everybody quit the griping and let's get this downtown built up. later - naturalsister | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1003 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.60.143.186 |
I think this is the first time I have seen a double post ten minutes later naturalsister | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
Royce, emporis says 21 floors, but doesnt list height in feet. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.169.65 |
I don't know how that happened. Maybe it's an omen telling the gripers what they don't want to hear... TWO TIMES!!!!!!!!!! later - naturalsister | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1557 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Well, Andyguard73, that's what I wanted to know. Thanks. Gumby, it will look like a middle finger, but a middle finger telling Detroiters, "FU, Detroit." It will also say, "We at Greektown Casino don't think you(Detroit) deserve anything more thoughtful because you should be happy you're getting something." If this "Tower of Babel" gets built, people will be talking, in all kinds of languages, about how out of place this place will look. | ||
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister Post Number: 547 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.169.65 |
Oh Royce, Biblically adept as well, aye? later - naturalsister I must say, I did enjoy the reference. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3435 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
If you're this pissed at Greektown, you must be very pissed at what they are throwing up at the MGM site. The Greektown proposals have been consistently better than anything MGM and Motor City have come up with. | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1680 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 68.42.172.120 |
Royce, based on the responses on this thread I think we have a consensus, you are a dumbass. I guess you should just share your development ideas with your fellow janitors that way you wouldn’t have to waste time posting them here. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3436 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
He's not a dumbass, but he is really off the mark on this one. There is no need for petty namecalling and condescension. | ||
623kraw Member Username: 623kraw Post Number: 852 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200 |
Are there any renderings on this? | ||
Lawnmowerman Member Username: Lawnmowerman Post Number: 6 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 71.244.180.197 |
This is the only rendering that I know of. http://www.emporis.com/en/il/i m/?id=421865 | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1559 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Merchantgander, you have a serious problem and it's not me. Again, you don't have to like my development ideas. Like everybody else on this forum, including you, I have the right to express my opinion on any subject that comes up and I'm confident that others on here don't think that all of my ideas are "99.9% bad." The name calling is unnecessary. You started this some other threads back and I tried to ignore it and stick to the issue at hand, but to call me "stupid" and a "dumbass" on this one thread is disrespectful. Instead of calling me names why don't you point out where you think I'm off base. I can accept criticism, but to have my mental abilities challenged simply because you don't like my ideas is arrogance on your part. Lmichigan, thanks for coming to my defense regarding the name calling. Regarding MGM Casino, I really don't have a problem with it like you do. You think it takes up too much of the streetscape. I think that since there wasn't much over there except parking lots, this development in its configuration works fine, and when completed will compliment that area. | ||
Pipdid Member Username: Pipdid Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 24.91.234.162 |
Despite all the name calling, this is an interesting debate, because it is about density and scale in an urban neighborhood. I assume that the rendering is of the previous scheme for the use of the church parking lot, since it's not nearly tall enough to be 33 floors. The current scheme seems so complicated that it's hard to know what to think before seeing it. In general, as an architect currently living in the very dense city of Boston, I think that putting the hotel as close to the middle of Greektown as pracitcal is a good idea. Detroit needs density desparately. The bridge through St Mary's School seems unnecessary to me, but if that sort of direct connection to parking is what's needed to get Detroiters downtown, so be it. Certainly, don't tear that beautiful little building down! A nicely designed bridge passing through could add to the complexity and interest of the streetscape in Greektown. It would need to be a simple, glassy design that highlights views of St. Mary's and Monroe Street as it crosses. I bet that this will draw some of the casino-goers out into the street. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 631 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
i agree, Pipdid, Detroit NEEDS density. I have no idea why every project that is announced, that puts a major investment downtown, is always put down and complained about. a $400 million dollar, 33 story building is NOT something to complain about. there are plenty of things, some of which we ourselves have control over, to complain about. If u really want to complain, complain about those. but i suggest u get out there and make a difference instead of griping over major investment in downtown detroit. It makes this whole forum look stupid. i understand your points about architecture, but buildings like the Guardian or Penobscot are not built anymore, anywhere. Move on | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1562 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 68.255.240.236 |
Sadly, some of you don't remember some of Greektown Casino's previous permanent casino proposals. If you knew about them, then you'd understand why I am so angry with this latest proposal and why I am angry with the powers that be at Greektown Casino. Here's a rundown of the proposals for the permanent casino that some of you may not have been aware of. They go back so far back that a detail or two might be off. The first proposal for the permanent Greektown Casino had this twin tower monstrosity at the corner of Beaubien and Fort. They would take the parking lot there, which is now their valet parking deck, and tear down the beautiful Globe Building next door. This beast was to have twenty plus floors I believe. The second proposal was to stay at the current temporary casino and tear down the building that houses the Loco Bar and Nikki's Pizza to build their 800 or 400 room hotel. The third proposal for the permanent casino put the casino at Gratiot and I-375 where they were going to build a 40 story 800 or 400 room casino. People in the area complained that the 40 story hotel would be too tall so Greektown adjusted it to fewer stories(can't remember the exact number). Then they announced that they wouldn't be building on the site and would stay where they are. The next proposal for the hotel was to place it behind the Greek Orthodox church on a current surface parking lot. In addition they would tear down the city owned parking garage and build a new and larger parking garage that would connect to the hotel by walking skywalks. Then they decided to build the valet parking deck at Beaubien and Fort that did not make accommodations for ground level retail. In my opinion you have a hideous parking structure that adds nothing to the Greektown neighbor. It also blocks the views of workers in the Globe Building and the views of those living in the lofts above Nikki's Pizza. And now we have the latest proposal for the permanent casino, hotel, and parking deck. Without rehashing my problems with this new proposal, I would just like to conclude by reiterating that Greektown Casino has made poor proposals in the past. This tract record of poor proposals for the permanent casino complex continues with this latest proposal. Like the others, this current proposal, in my opinion, is also poor. So in a nutshell, you can see why I am so angry with Greektown Casino. BTW, can anyone explain to me the reason why they decided not to build on the Gratiot site? As you can see, there have been so many proposals that have fallen through that I can't remember all the details as to why they did. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1925 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.105.196 |
Royce, I agree with your analysis of Greektown Casino management. Unfortunately Mayor Archer was warned that by picking the Greektown "preference", Detroit was going to be served by the "Big 2/LITTLE 1 Casinos". And the Greektown owners have pretty much made that prediction become true, regardless of whether or not they are best at meshing with the fabric of the city. | ||
623kraw Member Username: 623kraw Post Number: 868 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.224.200 |
Late breaking news from August 2002:  | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3443 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Boy, am I happy that didn't get through. Talk about tacky. Greektown is the only casino's whose proposals have improved with each new one released. Hopefully, the new one will follow the trend. | ||
Detroitman Member Username: Detroitman Post Number: 949 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 216.78.45.205 |
Greektown Casino's site request delayed April 6, 2006 BY GRETA GUEST FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060406/BUS INESS06/604060557 | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
Quite honestly, I think the Greektown casino is doing more positive things for the city and its neighborhood than the other two Detroit casinos or the Windsor casino. Greektown casino blends in quite well with the surrounding neighborhood and helps enrich other local businesses. This is the way a lot of people saw the casinos working. I wish the other two or the windsor casino had a similar impact on their neighborhood. Also, I'm not a big gambler, but when I make a wager a vast majority of the time its at Greektown. Mainly because of the way is blends in so well with the neighborhood. My other friends who have deeper pockets and enjoy gambling a lot more than I do go to Greektown almost exclusively for the same reasons. The other casinos seem more like prisons with bright neon lights. I hope Greektown casino stays where it is and with the layout it has. If it needs to grow bigger why not add a floor or two to the new sections of the casino on the Lafayette side? I would be greatly disappointed if it moved to the Gratiot site. I would be upset enough that I would never go in there again. Greektown's current plans of Building a tall hotel on the parking garage is a great idea. The best one it has presented yet. I think that will help extend the Greektown streetscape and make a nice addition to the skyline. People who complain about tall buildings downtown need to get over that. There is no better place for skyscrapers than the CBD. Also, the valet parking garage isn't terrible. Yes, it should have ground floor retail and could look better, i.e. Opera House or 1001 Woodward garages. But it does look better than the crappy one on Lafayette near American Coney. As far as looks go its medicore at best, but at least it tries to blend in with Globe Building. Also, having another building there is better than the surface lot that preceded it. It does improve the streetscape and connect Greektown to Bricktown with one solid line of buildings. Overall, I think the Greektown casino management has made the best decisions compared to the other three casinos. I hope they go forward with their current plan and find a way to work a small shop or two into that valet parking garage. It looks like it's possible. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 689 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Gistok and Royce, have either one of you ever even owned your own business? Do you have any idea whatsoever what it takes to run a company of this size.......balancing the wants and needs of the community, your owners, your customers, your neighbors etc. etc. etc. etc.. I can guarantee your two are the type to sit at your desk 39.5 hours a week, daydreaming of this utopia you have created in your own minds, complaining that you always get passed over for promotions, all the while your heads are stuck smartly in your own arses. Wake up, reality is passing you by..... | ||
Reetz12 Member Username: Reetz12 Post Number: 41 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 216.144.213.130 |
I bet you the residents of Pontiac wouldn't bitch about building the casino at the Silverdome site, I say move greektown to the suburbs because "all gamblers drive there and drive home" there is plenty of property there and its easily accesible to the freeway. Come on give Greektown a break and let them get plans approved and start with construction. Although at this pace it looks like they are going to be the third casino to open the hotel, just like the temp casino's. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1963 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.92 |
Gambling man cut the ad hominem crap... I don't attack you personally. And yes, I own my own business! | ||
Detroitman Member Username: Detroitman Post Number: 951 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 216.78.36.130 |
I think a rendering of the new Greektown casino is in this article discussing the MGM casino. http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060407/BUS INESS06/604070327/1006/NEWS | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1575 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.162.53 |
Gambling man, you guys at Greektown Casino blew it with me when you chose the Gratiot/I-375 site. Then you and the crew decided not to build on the site, despite the fact that it would give the casino far more room than it currently has. You guys at Greektown Casino are like a bunch of children trying to build a clubhouse and no one can agree on where it should be built or how it should look. I have said repeatedly that Greektown Casino should stay where it is and as it is and stop trying to out do MGM and Motor City casinos. Find a way to connect the Atheneum Hotel to the casino and you have your hotel, and stop being greedy about the parking. If those old scary suburban folks don't want to walk a block or two, then forget about catering to them. There are enough young and healthy people who don't mind the walk and will come to Greektown Casino. Sales of $335 million a year is not chump change, Gambling man. Don't tell me that expenses are just as high so that you guys are only breaking even. I'm sure there are some investors and upper management there walking away with enough money to pay their mortgages to their homes in Bloomfield Township. As much as I let the world know how unhappy I am with the decisions of Greektown Casino's higher ups, I still prefer to go to Greektown Casino over the other three. The fact that as a customer I don't mind the block or two walk or the fact that I don't need to see a performer in some 1500 seat auditorium is not important to management. My attitude of, "I'm happy with the casino the way it is," isn't good enough for Greektown Casino management because all they can think about is, "How can we make more money despite the fact that many people like us the way we are." Again, $335 million in annual sales is not small potatoes. Just stop being greedy and you might find contentment, Gambling man. | ||
Corktownmark Member Username: Corktownmark Post Number: 182 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.246.27.152 |
Going back to the earleir point about the 13 floors of parking. 2 years ago I stayed at a hotel in downtown Philly (don't remember the name) that had 8 floors of parking. Non of the people in my group noticed anything except that the hotel elavators in the lobby did not have buttons for the lower floors. I asked at the desk and was told that they were for parking. | ||
Chris_rohn Member Username: Chris_rohn Post Number: 215 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.248.43.204 |
Here is the rendering from the Freep article:  | ||
Keystone Member Username: Keystone Post Number: 217 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.241.158.33 |
Far better than the MGM scheme, IMHO. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 111 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
I think it's funny that anyone could actually argue that break even is better than making profit. Everyone also keeps quoting revenue, revenue doesn't mean shit. Stop quoting useless numbers. | ||
_sj_ Member Username: _sj_ Post Number: 1297 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.220.230.150 |
Looks better than MGM, it will stick out like a sore thumb in that area. Royce, one flaw with your idea. Casino hotels have cheap rooms, no one is going to $180 a night to stay at Greektown. | ||
Downtown_dave Member Username: Downtown_dave Post Number: 62 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
Having trouble reconciling the rendering with actual Greektown -- the "ghost lines" of St. Mary's towers are throwing me off. What corner does the glass hotel tower sit on? | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 819 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.209.74 |
st. antoine and monroe. the ghosted lines of st. mary's towers would be in the foreground... | ||
Keystone Member Username: Keystone Post Number: 218 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.241.158.33 |
The density it adds to the area will be a great improvement. Contributing to the City skyline, making a strong statement while respecting the character of the neighborhood will make this a real winner. The 'sore thumbs' in the area are the Frank Murphy and BCBS towers. This rendering shows a building that really will be seen as the entry to Downtown. What an improvement over the prior schemes! I'm afraid that again, Greektown will be held to a higher standard than the other two.. it remains to be seen if the City will get out of its own way and endorse what looks to be a real asset to the area. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 625 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Looks like the tower will be on the Freeway side | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 691 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Royce, we HAVE to expand the casino per our development contract with the City of Detroit. AND, we are staying put, just like you want. Do you think we are expanding so that we can make more money? We will make less money by expanding. Do you think we are adding a 1500 seat theatre because we want to.....again, we have to. The location of our casino has a great many challenges, not the least of which has been land acquisition. If the casino owners only cared about money, they would have done what I suggested to them many years ago.......move out of Greektown altogether. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 820 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.212.209.74 |
wrong matt; see above post. perspective is drawn from where the old st. mary's school is. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1014 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
Gambling_man, how about a "Hastings Street Club" with live blues/jazz entertainment inside the new hotel, since it will be in such close proximity to where Hastings was once located? | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 692 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
In addition to Keystone's post I would also like to point out that the entry to this garage will be right on the service drive, alleviating congestion and increasing parking spaces for patrons in the Greektown area. | ||
Matt_the_deuce Member Username: Matt_the_deuce Post Number: 626 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.248.252 |
Rsa - gotcha. Thought the St. Marys church was on the other side of the casino. I guess it wouldn't be drawn in lite outline then... | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 29 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 141.209.33.145 |
The city officially approved sale of the garage to Greektown today. Demolition on the old garage is to start near the end of the month. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20060407/U PDATE/604070431 | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1071 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.1.1.101 |
According to the article:
So, mayhaps the hotel tower will actually be on the freeway (east) side? Gambling_man, can you settle this once and for all? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1539 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I think it means east end compared to the expanded gaming floor on the west end. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 405 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
It's not on the freeway look the rendering. It's looking NE at St. Anotine and Monroe you can see St. Mary's on the corner | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 693 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Hmmmm....the directions in the paper are incorrect. On the WEST end of the NEW structure will be the Hotel, which has the lobby, ballroom, and meeting rooms right in it. The hotel is definitely not on the expressway side. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 694 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Notice that the hotel does not sit on top of the garage at all......only that the middle "jutting out" rows that you see on the hotel is the extension of the parking garage. What does everyone think of the design? | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 695 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
PS, this design incorporates one (1) level of parking underground. Any more was prohibitively expensive...... | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1072 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.1.1.101 |
Thanks G_man. The rendering is a pleasant surprise for me, thumbs up overall. It may be partly due to it being a hand-drawn, nicely colored rendering... some of the computer-generated renderings can look kind of sterile. (see the one further up in the tread, or the MGM one) The brick on the first two floors is a nice touch... that should blend in pretty well at the street level with the rest of Greektown. The glass tower will be more visible from a distance. The whole building is kind of a mish-mash of different materials (glass and brick), but for some reason I like it. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1544 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
IMHO: Good: Going linearly across the block, the wall is broken (looks like elevator and stair sharts) up almost to create the effect of more than one building. I don't like how the Compuware parking garage seem monotonous because you notice its size. The orientation of the hotel rectangle is good. Virtualy all rooms will have either a view of the rest of downtown, or the river and Belle Isle. It also reduces the apparent mass from Monroe. The hotel being separate from the parking in design helps this too. I would encourage them to be structurally dividable in the future. You never know if all of that parking will always be neccessary. If you are going to have glass skin (see below) I like the jagged walls in floors ~3/4. I like the upper floor detailing of the parking portion. I looks like it will fit in with some fo the existing warehouses in the area. Neutral: Where is the hotel vehilce drop off? It might have been a good idea to go with a classical greek style. There is a lot of risk and looking kitschy though. Maybe it could be flashier for a casino, but then again, if it were, it might not be respectful of its neighbors. The skywalk could be really ugly. Be careful. I'm really curious and concerned about the St Mary's school. How will the skywalk impact it? I'd be curious to know what type of sidewalk width and street scape is proposed for out front. Bad: I don't think the lower couple of floors for the hotel portion should look like the parking garage portion. I don't even know if I like brick. You can use other materials and still have a traditionally programmed streetfront. It looks like the foot traffic almost has to take the skyway to cross the street towards us. I personally don't like glass boxes. (But I do like a lot modern or contemporary architecture like the Compuware, Comerica, and even 1001.) I especially don't like the "two faced" glass skin. Unless it is for environmental/energy reasons, then it is ok. The Hotel portion doesn't seem to address the intersection of Macomb and St. Antoine at all. I think this is a mistake. Hopefully this street can be brought to some form of life in the future (at least to the east, where a lot of buildable land exists. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3497 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Gambling Man, This is a pleasent surprise, and by far the best of the casino designs, IMO. It does an excellent job of creatively combining a hotel tower and garage tower on the same block without it looking tacking, cheap, or not connected. My only critique of the entire thing is that the ground floor looks a little jumbled. I'd hope that when it is constructed, all of the varying elements and design of the botton few floors of the hotel and garage can be reconciled to tie the bottom together better with the top. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 1967 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.90.15 |
I too like the design, but I don't like the "peeled away" look of part of the tower.... too cliche for modern architecture. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 406 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
I don't understand what you mean. It's built right on the corner how can be addressed any more? | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2869 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.220.225.232 |
Compare the Macomb corner with the Monroe corner. Monroe has a doorway with lots of glass. It looks like Macomb has solid brick, with nary a window to even peek into. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 408 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
Thanks for the clarification. Overall I like the design. The only thing I'd change I'd use the wavy glass on bottom for that entire front portion of the hotel. The back part would remain the same(including where the garage juts out) with the smooth glass look | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1576 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.162.53 |
Some of you need lessons in geography. If the hotel portion of the hotel/parking deck combination faced the freeway it would be on the parking lot of the Greek church that wouldn't sell its parking lot. If they say that the hotel tower is on the corner of St. Antoine and Monroe and your not sure of the location, get a map of the city to see the orientation. And who said that they could see the church in the rendering shown in today's Free Press? I see two hugh cubes that represent buildings on the north and east sides of the structure. How anyone can see St. Mary's Church is a mystery. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3505 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Umm...the outline of the church is present in the better rendering. Drop the attitude, please, again, for your own sake. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1577 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 69.209.162.53 |
Lmichigan, the rendering in the Free Press does not show the outline of the church, but I see that it is outlined in the Detroit News. Given the fact that the outline of the church is in the drawing, should make it a lot easier for people to determine where the hotel will be placed. This then is even more of a reason for why some people should take geography lessons. (Message edited by royce on April 08, 2006) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3506 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
Actually, the outline of the church is visible in both of the renderings released. | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 31 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
In the rendering, on the monroe corner facing us, you'll notice two red lines and a hole 2 floors up. Does that represent the skywalk coming towards us at the school? I understand the orientation I'm just trying to get an idea of where exactly the skywalk is. | ||
Detroit48213 Member Username: Detroit48213 Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.79.166.5 |
http://www.emporis.com/en/il/i m/?id=449055 this is a rendition of the casino that was to have been built on Gratiot. In my opinion I like this location and design better then the junk proposed yesterday. It seems to me that we are not seeing the obvious, that greekblock is proposing this $200 million minimum investment junk to save money. MGM Grand's casino will cost almost 4 times as much!!! Also, why hasn't Greekblock proposed re-locating the NEW Wayne County morgue (casinos tear down new building's all the time) and tearing down the building and building a real casino from gratiot to monroe> Because the are not willing to make that much of an investment in Detroit that's why. I was taught to not go by what people say go by what they do. One more thing, I like Art Blackwell & I voted for the mayor because he was the lesser of 2 evils but there relationship is why Greekblock is allowed to propose any kind of minimum investment proposal and get away with it!!! the city council should reject greekblock's and motorcity's proposal's and tell tell them we want more investment into there casino's or they will be rebid!!!! | ||
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve Post Number: 2871 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.250.43.103 |
Greektown's price tag for the expansion is lower because they're using what they've already paid for, and the amount of land is less. | ||
Restoretheroar Member Username: Restoretheroar Post Number: 683 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 199.67.140.42 |
States turn to slots, but may not be jackpot E-mail | Print | | Disable live quotes By Simona Covel Last Update: 2:16 PM ET Apr 21, 2006 NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Cash-strapped American cities are increasingly betting on a dicey source of revenue: slot machines and blackjack tables. From the Deep South to the Upper Midwest, state and local governments faced with yawning deficits are courting casino companies, hoping the heavily-taxed gaming venues will provide some much-needed cash and spawn economic growth. The trend is especially potent in formerly industrial areas, where the stunning decline in heavy industry has left many cities marred by abandoned factories, desolate downtowns and bleak employment outlooks. Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick declared during his re-election campaign that the Motor City has migrated from an manufacturing economy to a casino economy. Several cities in Pennsylvania seem to be moving in the same direction after a recent law change allowed for gaming development. Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, the former home of the giant eponymous steel company, may soon see a casino on the site of a former steel plant - a testament to this widespread shift. http://www.marketwatch.com/New s/Story/Story.aspx?dist=newsfi nder&siteid=google&guid=%7BF58 8CAB7-2A20-49A3-9ABB-5C6C4217A EF6%7D&keyword= Not sure where to throw this article, but it provides some interesting insight. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 708 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
To answer a question above, the skywalk will travel on an angle over top of monroe st, taking the patrons through the renovated St. Mary's school building, into a new entrance for the casino. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 201 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.252.68.251 |
Didn't really like it at first, but it is starting to grow on me (visualizing how it will look from the ground). It will all depend on the quality of the materials in the dissonant facade types. It could come out looking organic, or it could end up looking like a Meijer Fresh. Maybe they can add random discoloration, diesel dust and "old" so it will blend in better with the rest of Greektown. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3153 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.118.181 |
Greektown is a phantom of what is was, prior to the advent of the Casino (sorry G-man). It was one of the few areas of Downtown that was a destination point in and of itself. Since the Casino, it has lost its allure as a place I enjoyed and invited people to see as a place to go. I have to admit I'm not a big fan of Casinos, but I'm a huge fan of the "hidden" treasures of Detroit. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 3582 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.172.95.197 |
I hope your not letting your dislike of casinos cloud your judgement about Greektown. The casino did not 'kill' Greektown by any means. Actually, I fear what would have happened if the casino didn't move in at all. Where would Greektown be today? I suspect it would still be downtown's most active district, but much less than it currently is. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4816 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
So everything's cool until the masses find your favorite hangouts? |
