Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Crime is a BUSINESS issue - and Detroit is losing Previous Next
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Salvadordelmundo
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Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 4
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, I should introduce myself. I grew up in SW Detroit as well as Ypsilanti. I work in the marketing business, but have some side interests in real estate. I'm not that old, and I sure hope that by the time I die, Detroit will be in a shape that we'd all be proud to pass on to our kids. One of the best things about this forum is the discussion of problems and solutions. From my (marketing) perspective, let me tell you about the problem of crime, and how it reaches deep into corporate business decisions.

We all know that Geely Corp's choice of a US headquarters will be a big economic boost to the site that gets chosen. Detroit is a strong contender, but I bet you HAVEN'T seen the anti-Detroit marketing materials produced by other sites under consideration, and circulated up to Geely's mainland China management staff. I have seen some of this stuff, and a recurring theme is crime.

Let me provide some background - in the Chinese corporate world, South Africa has a notorious reputation for crime and violence. Several Chinese and Korean business executives have been carjacked, kidnapped, or executed there since the fall of apartheid. Most now travel in armored cars, with bodyguards carrying MP5 rifles.

One of the promotional videos circulated up to Geely management was titled "Detroit - Your Next South Africa." In Mandarin, it went through Detroit's high homicide and crime rates, showing plenty of photos of thuggish-looking violent crime suspects, burnt-out buildings, scenes from a Discovery Health Channel documentary on Detroit Receiving Hospital, Detroit's funding woes regarding police, etc.

The message of the video was clear - send your executives (or their families) into Detroit, and you will bring them back in coffins. I was angry when I saw this video. It was a low-blow that smacked of racism. I asked the video's producers why they would make something like this. Their response was simple - "We work hard to keep our city safe. It's not our fault Detroit doesn't. This is business, not a sensitivity class."

And when you come right down to it, they are right. This is business, in a global economy. If you want to compete with Detroit in a global economy, why not play off of people's worst fears? After all, you're not LYING in the video. Detroit really does have "a brutal murder for every single day of the year" (line from the video). It really does have "hundreds of vicious murderers, never caught by police, walking free."

We can't expect the competition to hold back when it comes to matters of crime and quality-of-life. And since the videos are not meant for domestic (US) distribution, they completely do away with any notion of political correctness.

We have to understand that crime is a real business issue. Every time there is a violent carjacking, or someone gets shot in a robbery, that's more fodder for the competition. They don't care about the "root causes" of crime, or the social pathologies that have developed over time. Like anything else in the business world, all that matters are the numbers. And unless Detroit can start bringing down crime numbers, and boosting conviction rates, expect a full-court business press against the city on the issue of crime.
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Collective
Member
Username: Collective

Post Number: 342
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 70.8.217.145
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Salvador...please e-mail me at director@createdetroit.com. I would really like to discuss this with you over a phone conversation. I run an organization that is focused on attracting creative people and businesses into the city and your comments are very interesting.

Thanks!
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 47
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.213.39.152
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this video on the net? I'd like to see it.

As for the crime thing... New York City was known as a crime haven in the 70's and 80's and still never missed a beat as far as business is concerned.
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Machoken
Member
Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1215
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 207.145.38.104
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting newbie post. This isn't really news, but it certainly is a brutal example of the forces working against us here. What can be done to overcome these forces?
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Salvadordelmundo
Member
Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 10:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The video as far as I can tell was not released publicly. Probably for good reason; if it got back to the states, it would create a furor.

NYC did have a high crime rate, but along with Los Angeles, it was always a natural point of entry for business, and a center of corporate business since the 1800's. Detroit doesn't have that advantage; it has to compete directly against other cities and sites for international business. Businesses generally have to be swayed AGAINST NYC if they are going to put their operations somewhere else. Businesses generally have to be swayed FOR Detroit, or else that business will probably gravitate away, since Detroit is not a natural site for businesses to establish a large presense.
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4039
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bring GEELY here to Detroit.
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Darwinism
Member
Username: Darwinism

Post Number: 487
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.215.30.34
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Salvadordelmundo: Welcome and good post. Detroit is indeed competing against many other strong cities for large businesses and corporate investments. Detroiters NEED to step up their expectations because being mediocre just isn't enough to fend off the competition.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7254
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more reason why we need to market ourselves as a region. If Geely comes here whether they locate in OC or Detroit or Ann Arbor the region and the State needs jobs.

Going after companies like Geely is exactly where we need regional cooperation. Get them to SE Michigan then we can tout are respective counties/cities for the jobs.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2125
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 12:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding NYC - yes, it was a crime haven until Guliani came in and did the un-PC thing: kicked butt, cleaned up Times Square, and (regardless of reality) gave NYC the feel of being a safe, family place.

When Detroit tried to curtail crime in the '70's with a special police unit called STRESS (Stop The Robberies, Enjoy Safe Streets) it was quickly dissolved and crime thrived.

Perhaps Crash_nyc can comment with actual stats, please remember: Manhattan is home to 8,000,000 folks, last I knew.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2534
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.58.162
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 1:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to the forum Salvadordelmundo [= Savoir or the World]. As Machoken points out, this is old news to this forum and the topic of countless threads, but always relevant.

So what do you suggest, from your marketing perspective, can be done. Whe you speak of Detroit, you seem to be speaking of the city of Detroit. So stuff like "Detroit should get its act together" will not be accepted as an answer.

Crime is a deep rooted problem that is not going away quickly, however the long term trend lines show that it is much declined and confined to poor neighborhoods. How do you market Detroit in the face of the facts? Do that and perhaps you will be come SalvadorDelaD.
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Rasputin
Member
Username: Rasputin

Post Number: 3604
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.249.236.154
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 1:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Crime is a problem ALL-ACROSS-the-NEWKNIGHTED STATES of AMERIKKKA; and has been since those first foreigners arrived at Plymouth Rock & Jamestown, in addition to the SW & other places.

Why do you expect that Culture of CRIME to change after all these years of robbing/stealing, raping, killing for PROFIT/LAND?

Get a REAL CLUE!!

Black-atcha .....
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Salvadordelmundo
Member
Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 1:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, one very basic step Detroit and Michigan can take against the crime problem is to sternly enforce the existing firearms laws. Michigan has very clear CCW statutes. If you are carrying a concealed firearm out in public without a valid CCW license, I do believe the statutory maximum is something like 10 years in prison.

But right now, that hardly ever happens. Prosecutors will typically drop that charge, or reduce it as part of a plea deal. The good thing about firearms laws is that you don't need reluctant witnesses to come forward. The fact that the individual was arrested and a weapon was recovered is enough.

Strong and consistent enforcement of the CCW laws will help put away, for a long while, gang members and other thugs who are guilty of other crimes, but who have successfully intimidated witnesses against coming forward against them. And once a conviction is registered, they are disqualified under the CCW laws from obtaining a permit. So, if they are released and go back to their illegal-carrying ways, back to gaol for them.

Let it be known that illegal possession of a firearm in the city of Detroit is a huge deal, and you WILL be incarcerated for years on end for it. That is one immediate, short-term step that can be taken against crime.
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2129
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 1:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With ambassadors like Ras, Geely could be convinced to skip the USA altogether. A great example of Blame America First.
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Gildas
Member
Username: Gildas

Post Number: 594
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 147.240.236.9
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 1:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl,

Don't try to present crime statistics to Ras, about real problems we face in our city, and how other areas do not have problems to this extent.

The numbers will make his head hurt and after that he'll call you a racist (like we've never heard Ras do that before).

Broken records atcha.
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Salvadordelmundo
Member
Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 1:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, it's useful to look at how other COUNTRIES with very high crime rates are dealing with those issues. My moniker is taken from the Salvador del Mundo monument in San Salvador, El Salvador - one of the most violent cities on Earth. That place is a far sight more violent than Detroit. But even there, there have been mild reductions in crime in recent times. Mostly because of economic development, combined with shadowy death squads that attack and kill groups of gang members with grenades and military-grade rifles. That's obviously not a solution for Detroit, but it does show that eliminating the most violent and psycopathic people from the streets can help ease up on the crime rate.
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2537
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.58.162
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 2:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So is this going to be another version of the mice whining about the cat, making proposals about belling the cat, or lecturing the cat?

"What do you suggest, from your marketing perspective, can be done. Stuff like 'Detroit should get its act together' will not be accepted as an answer." We all know that. What can be done in the meantime to promote Detroit?

This is you big chance to provide a marketing miracle. Don't drop it or get diverted into legislative what-ifs. Pretend you have been handed the PR conract for Detroit. Tell us how you would sell it.

"Life is what happens while you are making plans."
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 965
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.129.146.186
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marketing is all about spinning - Yes, Detroit has approximately one homicide per day, but New York City has approximately two per day. (Yes, Detroit has about one-half the number of homicides New York City does and also fewer homicides than LA and Chicago.)
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Wazootyman
Member
Username: Wazootyman

Post Number: 47
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 68.75.220.9
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 3:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit also has a fraction of the population of the other two cities.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 966
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.129.146.186
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 3:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

that doesn't change the per day numbers, which is what was being presented

it's just another presentation that marketers use



(Message edited by lilpup on April 27, 2006)
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Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 667
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stress was a disaster mainly because people were getting shot in the back and most of them tended to be black.
The cops seemed to be doing a Rudy on many incarcerated (and others merely detained) folks and that's why they have the feds on their butts now.
A balance needs to be found with law enforcement to get the bad guys from wrecking the quality of life for the rest of us. Education and jobs follow close by but until people feel safe to walk their street, what outsider would be stupid enough to come here?
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 8366
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.53.96.121
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 6:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Detroit needs more guns. Cripes, even Sport has one (possibly two) now. If he can get one any person with an IQ over 73 can get one. Yikes!
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Dougw
Member
Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.1.1.101
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 6:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who (on this thread) said Detroit needs more guns?
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Goat
Member
Username: Goat

Post Number: 8367
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.53.96.121
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 6:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SalvadoredelMundo said to enforce the CCW permits. I say get rid of them altogether.
I understand his post of enforcing the law but clamping down on guns will be the only way to curb gun violence.
But you have all heard this before from mes o I will stop here.
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Salvadordelmundo
Member
Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 7:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think the gun violence rate among valid CCW permit-holders is very high. People might not feel the NEED to go through the CCW process if Detroit's streets were safer in the first place.
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Rocket_city
Member
Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.174.213
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 8:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm participating in the most recent Detroit Orientation Institute event. Perhaps more companies who are considering Detroit as a location need to attend this workshop. And maybe we can find a way to fund their attendance.
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Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 330
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 8:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Get rid of the CCW permits? Why? Care to back up your fear mongering with some actual FACTS? Look them up on the MSP website, less than 0.002% of all CCW permits have been revoked due to illegal activity, and of the very few that were, most were for non-firearms related violations (like drunk driving). Name me ONE crime in Detroit that would have been prevented if there was no CCW permiting system, just ONE.

A man with a CCW permit shot an armed thug who tried to carjack him in Detroit less than a week ago. Concealed carry WORKS!

http://www.clickondetroit.com/ news/8884963/detail.html
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Detroit313
Member
Username: Detroit313

Post Number: 43
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 72.229.136.103
Posted on Thursday, April 27, 2006 - 11:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes DETROIT needs to have more poilce on the streets. It has about 4000 cops. Only the NYPD,Chicago PD, California Highway Patrol and the LAPD are larger. Yes DETROIT had 360+ homicides last, that is a terrible murder rate for DETROIT with 900,000 residents. And yes DETROIT is doing something about the problem, residents are voting with their feet.313
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Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 684
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.42.220.37
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 12:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This pisses me off, but it would be kind of funny in a sick way if turned out Brooks Patterson produced the video.
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Jerome81
Member
Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 976
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 2:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, if that is what is being presented to Geely, then those whose job it is to sell Detroit and SE Michigan should be doing their own marketing.

And if Geely is careless enough to make a decision as big as this based on a marketing video produced by other cities, then they probably won't last very long in the american car market.

I think SE Michigan can win a Geely headquarters. Unfortunately, Detroit winning that I would guess is probalby pretty small.

Another way to spin would be to focus on all the improvements in Detroit. The other big companies who have moved or who will soon be moving. The new parks, arenas, theaters, condos, etc. It will paint Detroit as an up and comer, and Geely can be a part of that.

But I understand the problem. It is quite hard to sell yourself when so many other places sell themselves.
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4042
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.235
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 9:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Less jobs mean more CRIME!

More unemployement means more CRIME!

Less politician support mean more CRIME!

More crime means more robbing, killing and bearing false schemes. Rob, kill and bear false schemes the POOR and them we could rob, kill and bear false schemes the RICH.

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