Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Off duty cop killed Previous Next
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10008
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 9:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does this sound more like a hit than a carjacking to anybody else? Apparently the radio stated automatic weapons were used. The paper details are still quite vague.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060428/UPDAT E/604280429
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4043
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.235
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 9:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Violent Crimes is Detroit is so great that even the cops are getting killed.
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Publicmsu
Member
Username: Publicmsu

Post Number: 632
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.182.2.222
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 10:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reported on the news that another woman in the area was pulled from her car and beaten. They believed 4 men were involved, didn't sound like a hit to me.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1747
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Friday, April 28, 2006 - 10:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess there are allot of people buying drugs in that area.
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Mikesessajr
Member
Username: Mikesessajr

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.42.92.56
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The silence and lack of replies in relation to this post is deafening! Why is that before I draw my own conclusions? Where is the outrage?

Everytime a cop gets killed in the COD I see a press conference with Ella Bully, the ATF and a dozen other LEO officials all standing around for a photo-op making it look like their doing something about the violent crime in Detroit. The federal ATF has offered what? - a $5000.00 dollar reward for information?

Is Ella Bully so inept that she can't operate the DPD without the federal government and other agencies holding her hand?

I think the COD needs a new get tough police Chief who is committed to doing their own job and actually knows what their doing. Federal co-operation and multi-jurisdictional LEO co-operation is one thing but doing your own policing is quite another and it does not seem to be working.

How about screw the reward and get busy doing some law enforcement work that targets the viscious predators that seem to abound in the mean streets of Detroit.

If the good people of the COD want to clean up the streets then things are going to have to get tough. And then those good people of the COD are gonna scream bloody murder when the cops start crackin down on things. But fact of the matter is - tough police work needs to return or things can continue to get worse.
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3194
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.219.118.48
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

But fact of the matter is - tough police work needs to return or things can continue to get worse.




Suggestions, how to make it work?

Education? Job opportunities? Parental responsibility? Assigning people to barracks? Curfews? More prisons?

Answers (and how to implement them) are what is needed not just bitching.

And I wish there were simple answers to so many difficult questions.
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Livedog2
Member
Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 178
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 24.223.133.177
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 11:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bitching is part of the process!

Livedog2
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Bongman
Member
Username: Bongman

Post Number: 1051
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 198.111.56.128
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 11:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"But fact of the matter is...."

Inside joke to Mike, but I can't begin to explain how that expression makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck, and you should know why.
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Mikesessajr
Member
Username: Mikesessajr

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.42.92.56
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 11:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about committing to getting tough on crime! Replace the Chief of the DPD and refocus the resources of the department to target violent criminals. She's not the right person for the job. Isn't this terribly obvious?

Violent criminals are not terribly interested in education, job opportunities or parental responsibility. No opportunity would be good enough to satisfy them. They do need to be taken off the streets and locked up if their not killed in the process.

You just cannot justify whats going on with the murders, carjacking's, beating's etc by making excuses of education, job opportunities or parental responsibility. If that was the case then how much of the COD population would be out killing, robbing, carjacking and beating people to death?

Making excuses for criminal behaviour is not the answer and may simply encourage it. The greater good people of the COD need to reject the violence and demand the law crack down hard on it. Otherwise how can you ever expect to get better education and job opportunities when your neighborhoods are lawless, unsafe and full of violent predatory criminals who would target the new opportunities.

I hate to say it but you need to have your police force out there rousting known criminals on a daily basis finding out what's going on in the hood. Same with the punks on the corner that are selling the dope, roust them. The dope houses need to be repeatedly raided. The after hours clubs need to be shut down. Loitering needs to be enforced and tickets handed out like their going out of style. These kinds of policing activities will net the arrest of violent criminals. Then lock them up, no plea bargain, just hard time.

No place to put them? Convert some of the abandoned buildings into bootcamps! Put the violent criminals into max securtiy prisons and the lesser offenders into the former.

But how long would it be before CODers start whining about the law enforcement - reject that. It's time to clean it up.
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Mikesessajr
Member
Username: Mikesessajr

Post Number: 7
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.42.92.56
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 11:48 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I ain't going there Bong!
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3197
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.229.46.50
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

How about committing to getting tough on crime




Simply asked "HOW?"
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Mikesessajr
Member
Username: Mikesessajr

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.42.92.56
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh - OK, my bad! Sorry Jams. New Police Chief!
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3198
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.229.46.50
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why?
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Cmubryan
Member
Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 251
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.79.88.163
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike, great ideas and couldn't agree with you more. Two major issues Detroit faces: an excessive amount of crime and an excessive amount of abandoned buildings/trash/graffiti/etc.. Have these violaters from loiterers, solicitors, etc. arrested and sentenced to bootcamps fixing up or tearing down abandoned buildings and then possibly living in them (set up like a half-way house), cleaning our streets, etc.

Then we must be sickly strict about public behavior. 0 tolerance for any violaters from litering to assualts, etc.
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1766
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And who the hell is going to pay for it. To get more arrests you need more cops. once you've arrested more people you need more jails and more judges. If you haven't noticed the city is broke.

The whole "must be tougher on crime" is pure propogandist bullshit. How are you going to be tougher on crime? Who's going to pay for the stepped up enforcement?
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Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 331
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 1:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The freep article has more information:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060429/NEW S02/604290323

Some points from this article:

This suspects in this case (4-6 men in a Honda SUV) are suspected in three other incidents in the same area, one of which was an attempted carjacking of a woman (they shot up her car too).

Officer Phipps was involved in another off-duty attempted carjacking six years ago. He was shot in the leg by the carjacker and returned fire, killing the carjacker.

"He got over that incident," Phipps' father said. "But this just shows you how crime is just out of hand in this city. Our family will never be the same."
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Mikesessajr
Member
Username: Mikesessajr

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.42.92.56
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 1:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry N. Thats a defeatist attitude.

Re-organize and re-allocate the resources you already have. You know if they can put criminals in tents in the Arizona desert then you can put punks in abandoned buildings and make them do the fixing up at minimal costs therby paying society back a little bit.

People need to shift their paradigm to what is do-able in different ways instead of saying it's bull shit or who's gonna pay for that.

I don't agree with what your saying in order to get more arrests you need more cops and then more judges and jails. Seems to me you can do more with less if you really, really want to. Businesses do this each and every day. So can the COD.
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Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3201
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.229.46.50
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 2:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Again, specifics? Where will the funding come from? How will you keep the next person deciding to break into my home from doing that? How do you stop people from breaking into or stealing my car?

Shall we incarcerate every high-schooler who throws a candy wrapper or a pop bottle onto the ground?
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1767
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.226.184
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 3:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No Defeatist attitude here. Just sick of the bitching with no real ideas to back up your bullshit "lets reorganize the department" statement.

OK, once again what do you suggest? The City just reorganized and closed half the precincts. Do you propose another reorganization? What exactly would you do to reorg the department. How would you do it so it doesn't go against the contracts with the unions?

Each arrest costs each police officer a percent of his time. He needs to document the arrest, he needs to talk to the DA to help make the case. There is no way to automate this. Every arrest contains a substantial amount of work. So more arrests, more work.

Each person arrested then needs to be housed somewhere. There is no way to reduce the amount of space a human needs and there is no way to reduce the other needs of that person. Each person convicted of a crime needs to be housed for the duration of their sentence.

Each person arrested needs to go in front of a judge within a specified amount of time. The judges are booked solid as it is. Each new arrest requires more time from a judge.

Anyone can say "Lets crack down on crime." It's a sentiment everyone agrees with. The problem is that statement contains no substance. It contains no solution. It's like me saying We should invent cold fusion. Yep, everyone knows that's what we need. Nobody here knows how to do it.

70% of my job involves process improvement. I spend most of my days trying to figure out how to do things faster and cheaper. Process modification takes money. You spend extra money now to save more money later. Without a plan that shows what those costs are now and what the savings are later nothing is going to change. "Let's crack down on crime" is not a plan, It's a goal.
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Ron
Member
Username: Ron

Post Number: 80
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.79.231
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 3:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know how New York did it under Giuliani? My understanding is that there was a massive crackdown on small, "quality of life"-type crimes, that ultimately ended up with a large reduction in more serious crimes.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 970
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 4:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.gothamgazette.com/c ommentary/91.jackson.shtml
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Ron
Member
Username: Ron

Post Number: 81
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.79.227
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 4:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting. My reading of the article indicates that there can be big gains simply from a change in perception. Obviously, some subtance must back it up; but it is something to at least think about.

I was recently at a small, neighborhood bar on the east side, and was talking to a young man about the issues he sees in his neighborhood. This bar was on Harper and Beaconsfield, not far from where the young lady was shot at the car wash. He indicated that the #1 issue in his neighborhood is the issue of drugs. He said the best way to deal with it is to have 0 tolerance for all drug, and related, crimes. He indicated he is tired of worrying about stray bullets, of the "heads" wandering the neighborhood in search of a fix, of not being able to sit on his front porch with his girlfriend and their child.

Maybe KK should make a big public announcement that we will no longer tolerate "quality of life" crimes, and at least see what happens. Couldn't hurt, could it?
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Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 761
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.74.10.30
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 4:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

At what point does the DPD need to head in a different direction, in terms of leadership??? A shakeup in the hierarchy of DPD, including Ella Bully Cummings might wakeup the department a little bit..... another story about an unresponsive 911 dispatch...that is an essential service in a city.... ridiculous
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Mikesessajr
Member
Username: Mikesessajr

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.42.92.56
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 6:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey N I ain't bitchin I was simply providing my commentary and making a suggestion that maybe Police Chief Ella Bully Cummings needs to go and the next Chief needs to be a tough guy. But wait a minute didn't you have a tough guy in there before???

Now process improvements do not always cost money. Sometimes they are simple ideas that eliminate waste which save money and increase efficiency. New thinking is needed and your paradigm needs to be shifted.

You have made a valid point about closing half the precincts. Perhaps there needs to be a priority set to get tough on crime and a budget shift.

But the bottom line is I don't think Ella Bully is the right person for the job of Chief of the DPD.
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1770
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.212.226.184
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 8:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She just took the position. How long did Jerry Oliver have it before her? Process improvements always cost money. To think otherwise is totally ignorant of reality. Why do you think Ford and GM took such huge right offs in the last quarter. A change of direction always takes money.
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Msteinman
Member
Username: Msteinman

Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 72.240.153.102
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This doesn't surprise me....Detroit has to change something in order to get more police out on the streets and help protect the public. Maybe if the police department wasn't so corrupt like every other city service, the city of Detroit would actually get something done. The city has to implement something like Neighborhood Block Watch programs or something to that nature. With improved City Services and adequate police coverage, I think we will see a positive effect. Tear down all the crackhouses and improve the city infrastructure. That overall will help the city reverse the population decline. The funding issue can be resolved quite quickly....local governments always seem to find some extra cash just lying somewhere.....first off get rid of Kwame Kilpatrick, then something will finally get done around there.

It is just a shame to see that the guy was out celebrating his 2nd childs birth only to be brutally murdered. My condolences to the family.
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Jimelnino
Member
Username: Jimelnino

Post Number: 411
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 68.61.118.126
Posted on Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 10:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debate all you want about the city's finances and where they are going, but just know that at the current time, there simply is no funding for the stuff being suggested here, period.
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Cmubryan
Member
Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 252
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.169.179
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 2:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Put together a rock solid plan and get leaders on board as well as citizens. Then ask the Fed for some $$$ to execute it. If they can afford the millions every day spent in you know where then they can afford to help us fight our own war right here in the country. Instead of bitching and kfetching that we don't have the money, invest some time into a plan and the money might come, maybe not today but a plan doesn't hurt?
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Blueman459
Member
Username: Blueman459

Post Number: 3
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Wednesday, May 03, 2006 - 10:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If people want the city to clean up they need to start with the smallest quality of life issues. For one you would think with all the drug/asset seizures they have in the city they could alocate a portion of the seizure to a revitalization program within the city. Say if someone is convicted of a drug offense and assets are seized, put it to auction and take part of the money and tear down abandon houses, paint over graffiti, and clean up neighborhoods. Most people don't realize one crack house on a block can bring down an entire neighborhood. There are laws on the books if someone is arrested for a drug crime in a home and the person who owns/rents the home is on any goverment subsidized programs, the government can cut them off. Why not start hammering these dead beats and taking there cash away from them. Hit them where it hurts.

DPD is having the same problems as all the larger urban cities in Michigan. The police are being cut and the departments are now becoming reactive with hardly no proactive patrols. When you have no officers harassing dealers on the corners and drug use is out of control, nothing will work.

It's time to get creative in these tough times if we want to save Michigan's urban cities.

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