  Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 219 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
Sounds like this guy's never been to 7 mile http://zzz.pridesource.com/rss article.shtml?article=17169 | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1043 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 198.111.56.128 |
Sasha looks quite satisfied. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3731 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Good piece on the demography of Detroit. Thanks. Excellent story. Sad but true. jjaba. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 606 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 147.240.236.9 |
What makes something Gay enough? It seems to me that this is more whining, that is endemic to this region. Chicago and Cleveland didn't just deed sections of the city to gays, they came in, worked, improved the area and created a strong viable community. That can happen here as well, for all people, who are willing to make Detroit and surrounding areas a better place to live. | ||
Border5150 Member Username: Border5150 Post Number: 136 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 207.232.204.254 |
I'm going to speak in some generalizations, so please don't jump down my throat until you hear me out: 1. Demographically, Detroit is overwhelmingly African-American. 2. Without delving into the social-ecomonic end of it, churches play a integral role in the beliefs of many African Americans. 3. There are A LOT of churches in the COD. 4. Many, if not most, churches believe that homosexuality is a sin/abomination. Bearing these things in mind, I think its easy to conclude that Detroit is not a particularly "gay friendly" city. This isn't to say that all African-Americans believe this, or all churches believe this, I'm just tyring to explain where this belief about the COD comes from. This is what I always thought was so funny about Jennifer "Fluffy" Granholm and her "cool cities" intitiative. The man who actually coined the term said that one of the 5 things a city would need to be deemed "cool" is a tolerance for homosexuals and the ability for a gay community to thrive. I don't see this changing much anytime soon... (Message edited by border5150 on April 28, 2006) (Message edited by border5150 on April 28, 2006) | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3734 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
The Metropolitan Community Church is a gay-focused church. To assert that Detroit has too many churches for those irreligious gays doesn't wash with jjaba. The assertion that when gays move in, they'll build their own community is absolutely correct. This community isn't looking for a theme park before they move in. They find a place they like, and they build it up. To say that all gay people prefer a gay ghetto like Chicago's Boystown is also a big mistake. Some researchers think 10% of the entire population is gay men and lesbians. That would equal a whole lot more than a Boystown in Chicago or Ferndale-Royal Oak in Detroit. If there ever was a Palmer Park gay villa, they must have moved somewhere, and sure as hell they didn't all pick up and move outta town. Suburu advertises heavily in Gay publicans. Thus, lesbians prefer Suburus. Maybe Detroit auto makers can learn a bit about sales to them. Just another example of pissing in the face of the market. jjaba. | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 853 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.245.64.53 |
Got that right! Point blank, Detroit is a Black city..... homosexuality, bisexuality, effeminization, or whatever dysfunction you want to call it, feed right into the forced ' submissive disposition' that we sometimes find our selves in due to racist forces of the mainstream collective .....we ain't let'n that sh*t happen in the hood! The male Black collective is about masculine physical strength and power! So I agree, Detroit ain't a good place for being gay! super d(motordetroit) (Message edited by super_d on April 28, 2006) | ||
Merchantgander Member Username: Merchantgander Post Number: 1748 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.91.250.131 |
I'm not very religious but last time I looked the churches were against robbing and murdering people too. The churches definitely have not stopped that from happening. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2031 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.147.132 |
.... isn't it funny how even the oppressed like to oppress others?? .... and isn't it funny how some folks think that being "gay" and being "black" were somehow mutually exclusive?? (Message edited by Gistok on April 28, 2006) | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 473 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 4.229.60.17 |
ROTFLMAO at super_d. I wasn't sure before, but now I'm certain that the "d" in his handle stands for dickhead. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2032 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.147.132 |
... on a lighter note... my late German born "Archie Bunker" type father was once asked what they called Homosexuals in Germany? His reply.... "Austrians".  | ||
Rusty Member Username: Rusty Post Number: 394 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.201.177.57 |
Yeah, thats about as ignorant as it gets. It baffles me how some people let history repeat itself over and over again. | ||
Track75 Member Username: Track75 Post Number: 2337 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 12.75.20.196 |
Ohhhhh, Lowell, Lowell, come quick... This is the worst thread ever! I'm offended to my core by the fascist Super_dipstick. Ban him, Ban him! Delete this thread immediately!!!! Ohhh, I'm getting the vapors... (sound familiar D_Stylin???) | ||
Super_d Member Username: Super_d Post Number: 855 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 69.245.64.53 |
It's funny how 'y-t' refers to his penis as 'dick' somewhere down the line, the reference of 'dick' by 'y-t' is a deep rooted symbolic dispostion of power __right? vs. the Black 'natural' masculine disposition of power held by the brothas' meditate on that! ain't that called penis envy! let me chill, this is a gay thread! no offense! super d(motordetroit) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4049 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Detroit doesn't need to gay. The the Homosexual folks stay at Gaydale and Homopolis Royal Oak. All the Homo-folks just got sick and tired in living at the Crackhead Estates also known as Palmer Park. So most of them pack up and left to the burbs of White Detroit. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4050 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Border5150, GREAT POST with a GOOD REASON too. Starting a Gay Community with the predominately Black ghettohoods of Detroit would be urban disaster. It would be like a bunch of a Black Detroit ghettohood mob with guns, knives, gasoline cans, lighters and matches maching up to home or a apt. of the Gay or Lesbian couple beat them up and burn them out! Before the gospels of Jesus came out of their mouths. | ||
Gildas Member Username: Gildas Post Number: 612 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.216.141.203 |
Your right Danny, we can't have people fixing up homes, taking care of a community and making it a better place. That goes against Super_d's and perhaps your notion of: "The male Black collective is about masculine physical strength and power!" Education, who needs it. Responsibilities of fatherhood, not today in the Getto. Jobs and working, hell white welfare gives me all the bling I need. True role models and a great example of why Detroit is the way it is. | ||
Sknutson Member Username: Sknutson Post Number: 558 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 67.114.23.202 |
Sounds like a statement from someone on the DL. I live across the street from a gay black couple, and I bet they could beat the crap outta Super_D. But that's not how they choose to use their "physical strength and power." They are more into raising one partner's adopted son, and the other's nephews, who seem to have been abandoned by their masculine heterosexual fathers. Having a concentrated gay neighborhood would be a great boon to Detroit. The investment and revitalization could be substantial. Many gay folks wouldn't necessarily want to live there, but would like to have such a community available. | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4057 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Sknutson , Detroit is NOT Ready for a homosexual community. Those homo-folks tried to in Crackhead Estates but, it didn't work So they began to migrate to White Detroit sububarban divisions of Gaydale and Homopolis. And Look! They're doing great those homo-folks have a Gay community center on 9 Mile Rd. near Woodward and they about to expand to another community center at the old Rite Aid building along 9 Mile Rd. And in Homopolis ( Royal Oak) Those Gay lofts are really lured in more Gay and Lesbian couples, tranforming Downtown Royal Oak from a family establishment into a homosexual metropolis. They are widely accepted in White Detroit rather than in Black Detroit. | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 116 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.14.101.116 |
I don't want to know how they use their "physical strength and power"! I just hope they know how to use that in HELL! | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3739 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Tayshaun22, was that necessary? Now really! jjaba. | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 119 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.14.101.116 |
Let's go to Comerica tonight baby, I kiss you on the strikes and... Well I'll let you find out later! | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4061 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
OHH Jjaba!! You got a girlfriend. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3741 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Danny, oy veyesmere. jjaba doesn't need the abuse, really. What is jjaba, chopped liver? jjaba. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 170 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
:-) : :--> Livedog2, giggling his ass off... | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1576 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
That article is a bit old but kind of interesting. Of particular note was that the Detroit area is past the young professional gay "brain drain" and is now has moved on to the service sector gay "brain drain." You know it's bad when the waiters and hairstylists can't wait to get out of town. Jjaba:
Ok, this is true, but to say that a lot of gay people wouldn't like to have something like this as part of the city they live in is also a big mistake. You don't have to live in the middle of the gay ghetto to benefit from its presence.
Your point is true, there should be a ton of gay people around. Assuming a Detroit population of 1 million that would give us 100,000 gay people. Hell, cut that in half just to be conservative. 50,000 gay people in the city, based on statistical assumptions. Where are they? Well, they are dispersed geographically, closeted, segregated from other parts of the gay community (lesbians don't mix with gay men, black people don't mix with white people, working class doesn't mix with professional, young doesn't mix with old, etc etc). Even with all that splintering, you'd think there would be an actual presence somewhere. And when you multiply that by 5 to account for the metro Detroit population it boggles the mind. What can explain it?
I think you are wrong. Certainly many gay people who stayed moved out of the city north to Royal Oak and Ferndale, by all accounts because of increasing crime and police indifference. But I will tell you that from my experience, gay people cannot wait to get the hell out of here. There is very, very little to offer a gay person here, especially when compared to Chicago which is only a few hours away. Why stay here, where you are lucky to find more than one bar that might actually be full on a Friday night? Where there is no non-bar alternative for meeting other people besides the internet? Where you will actually be openly criticized for being gay? Where coming out of the closet is considered a risky career move? There is *no* gay-related reason for anyone to stay in this area. Other reasons may be compelling, such as family or professional opportunities. But when I am talking with someone from here in their 20's and they tell me they are moving to Chicago, all I can say is "good for you." There is no reason they should not have the fun party-time 20's that their straight counterparts have. I could seriously rant forever on this topic, it's the one part of living in Michigan that I find almost untenable, and if I ever leave, you can bet that is the major reason. And while it might be tempting to dismiss this as myopic and only my view, not the view of "most gay people," I just want to add that it always amuses me when I hear straight people speak for gay people like that. And I don't mean that in a confrontational way, it's just that how could you possibly know? I mean, I seriously understand why black people sometimes get annoyed at white people making assumptions for them. Yes we are all people, but we do have different circumstances. Some other threads on this topic: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/36206/41242.html https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/36206/48809.html | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3742 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
So clue us in. San Francisco, Chicago, W. Hollywood, Key West, New York City, et. al. have Gay Yellow pages full of services and business connected with this community. Does not Detroit have a Metropolitan Church, Gay social services, health clinics etc.? jjaba. | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 267 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 4.229.57.239 |
My best friend's sister moved to Chicago recently and she says Chicago is much more lesbian-friendly than the Detroit area, where there are only one or two lesbian bars and the only lesbian bookstore closed down last year. The Detroit area has more spaces and places for gay men, but again Chicago has more to offer, according to my friend's sister. I've never been to Chicago myself, so I cannot compare the two cities in any way. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 728 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.30.175 |
interesting...i spoke with a public official in ferndale who mentioned that the gay population had done a lot for the city, moving in, and fixing up houses...making the neighborhoods look nicer, and bringing up property values. he lamented, however, the fact that the same fixed-up households provided fewer children, and therefore less funding, for the schools. of course, there's a baseline differential that isn't completely obvious, because the trend is for delaying having children in husband-wife households, and there are options for private schools and home-schooling, which similarly reduce enrollment in public school systems. nonetheless, i found his remarks quite interesting. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2271 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.246.3.74 |
Danny you are the only crackhead on here and an idiot to boot! | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 142 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.30.248 |
So, okay... I'm gay. Some other people who have posted to this topic are gay... and nobody has asked the important questions or pointed out the gaping holes in this article. Wow. A 34-year-old who lives in Madison Heights doesn't feel like he's getting the most of the gay community in Detroit. In the article people compain about having to drive, sprawl, and a lack of a gay-borhood. Okay, this 34-year-old lives in Madison Heights. I'm not complaining about the existence of said suburb, [I could, but that's for a different post] I am however complaining about his complaining. I live in the city of Detroit. I don't know much else to compare it to, but I've not had a bad experience living here, especially in regard to my sexuality. I haven't been seriously harrassed for being gay. I can walk a short distance to go to many a gay person's house or apartment. In fact: today, a quite normal day, I ran into probably 6 gay people during my normal operations... which consisted of going to class, a coffee shop, and work. No gay meetings, no gay bars, no gay anything. Just a normal day. Oh, and I don't drive. So walking around, and taking the bus I've encountered these gay folks. I have a gay boyfriend. I sometimes eat gay pastries at the gay coffee shop that I walk my gay ass to. There are probably 25 to 30 gay bars, and even more "gay spaces" within the city of Detroit. While there are approximately 4 gay bars, and one lesbian bar in the suburbs. I agree that it sucks that most of the gay bars are located along the mostly unwalkable Six and Seven miles, but guess what... I blame you Kiley James, of Madison Heights, for that. Those bars exist in Detroit along such "ghetto residential," but Not Quite suburban neighborhoods because of the mass exodus of whites to the suburbs. Also, because of the fact that the residents of those neighborhoods won't object as much to gay clubs existing as the citizens of Warren, Taylor, or Oak Park might. I shouldn't be so bitter. The second boy, 23-year-old Trevor Balnaves hit the nail on the head by saying, "A district needs more of a draw than two gay bars, a bookstore, a community center and a half-gay restaurant..." He's completely right. I wish he could have gone on to say that Ferndale, and Royal Oak will never provide much more than that. The sooner the homosexuals realize that, the better. Ferndale and Royal Oak are more conservative than most would like to admit. Oakland County is WAY more conservative than those two pseudo-liberal enclaves. Neither "city" has the infrastructure to be what these homosexuals apparently desire. It's time for a *real* gay space to be carved out in a walkable area of Detroit proper. Not Palmer Park, not Ferndale, and certainly not Royal Oak. Midtown, and downtown Detroit are the two most likely and possible locations for such a growth. It would be nice if a gay bar would sprout up in either location. I know more gay people living in Midtown than any other space of comprable size in the region. Suburbanite gays have finally made it to the point where they're complaining about themselves. Please, someone with money or clout... give them a reason to change, eh? (Message edited by spaceboykelly on April 29, 2006) | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 225 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
Try the west side of downtown, it could use aome life | ||
Deel Member Username: Deel Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 203.158.47.97 |
hi, long time listener - first time caller i don't know much about detroit because i'm from Australia, but when i visited there last year i found there to be two women giving off the lesbian vibe at one of the older art spaces i visited and a mall-load of suburban trashy gay boys at Novi 12 Oaks Mall i guess detroit being a city where the crazies don't discriminate who they will beat up/kill/ maim or harrass and the gay population is already a prime target for this kinda behaviour having said that, being gay in detroit i never felt like i would be unfairly singled out for a hassling - its such a diverse town that anyone can get hassled if they wanted. being gay in Novi must suck so much harder than in Detroit. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 35 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
hmm.. I read this article, you could take out all references to gays and it would be pretty much the same story for everyone. What about gay people who want to work in the auto industry? This article is also full of sterotypes. I'm sure not every gay man works in the entertainment or computer industry. One of Ford's highest ranking chiefs is known to be homosexual. That hasn't stopped him from working in the auto industry. I'm sorry but this article is just more pointless crap put looking to bitch-slap detroit. It wasn't bad enough that Detroit is america's punching bag, now its the Gay punching bag. | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 268 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 4.229.57.195 |
I think Highland Park has a lot of gayborhood potential. It's walkable. It has lots of pretty, affordable older homes that people can fix up. It's close to the bars on 6 Mile. Drive a little ways to the north, and you can visit Ferndale and Royal Oak, while if you drive a little ways to the south, you can visit the Cultural Center and downtown Detroit. Highland Park already has the Ruth Ellis Center for gay teens. It's a start. | ||
Leyland Member Username: Leyland Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.74.209.4 |
Metro-Detroit's pretty gay from my perspective. Ferndale? Royal Oak? Ann Arbor? Ypsilanti? Maybe it's because I was in theater in high school and now I go to CCS and all of my friends are gay... but it seemes like the region is more than gay-friendly. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 48 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
I think some of everybody is trying to get the heck out of Michigan right now... | ||
Boss_hogg Member Username: Boss_hogg Post Number: 26 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.192.6.193 |
When the 2 gay factions finally come together, I'll give this thread - and all of the whining some credibility. But no, in this highly evolved community, we have 2 gay-pride parades. One for the black gay population & one for the white gay population. It's like gay pride from 1960 in Georgia. Ridiculous. | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 143 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.30.248 |
I totally agree. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.217.173.124 |
"The boring suburbs and rotting city" comment seems pretty accurate for all of Michigan's major cities...except maybe Grand Rapids. I don't know how we got to the point of defining our society this way, but these words are true. They not only speak for gays, but for everyone. I think some people's lifestyles are impacted more than others in the types of social structures they live in. If it's a suburb you seek in Michigan, you can find plenty. If it's mainstream urbanity found in most major cities, you might have to get creative. Oh, the irony! | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2451 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
I want to know more about these "gay pastries". | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 169 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.148.60.142 |
Hey, at least Detroit is one of a handful of cities that has (but also has the need for) Guerilla Queer Bars. There are plenty of areas in Detroit with awesome potential for a gay district or any hip neighborhood, but not enough people taking the first step. Yeah, what Spaceboykelly said. Also, I think in someplace like Detroit where maybe there is the perception of discrimination against a particular group of people, there is more of a need for a 'ghetto' (gay district, ethnic neighborhood, whatever) than in cities where people are more liberally-minded. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1578 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
I found this posted on another Detroit-oriented forum:
| ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 984 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.129.146.186 |
So why aren't gays starting businesses targeting gays in a saction of the city they think is viable? If I wanted to start one would I get patronage even though I'm straight? not meaning to offend - but what constitutes a gay business anyway other than the marketing? I've been to aut bar and the Common Language bookstore in Ann Arbor. There really isn't anything flaming about them other than one section of the bookstore that sells things other than books and cards (and not exclusive to gays anyway). The one thing I did notice (flipping through Outpost, admittedly probably not the best representation of area gays) is that a lot of the Detroit spots seem to be, um, on the skanky side. But Between the Lines seems to target a totally different audience. Is that another division? | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.148.60.142 |
Lilpup, maybe it's because there hasn't been a proper networking forum for a small group of entrepreneurial people to get together, decide they all want to open shops, and decide where in the City of Detroit would be most viable -- considering they were run out of the Palmer Park area already, and considering places like Midtown have a dearth (IMO) of lengthy stretches of potential business districts (if I'm wrong tell me ). Anyways, this is why a Detroit Synergy coffee talk would be helpful. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.217.214.203 |
So, what DID drive gays out of Palmer Park? I'm not too familiar with that part of Detroit's history. I am aware that the area use to be pretty dirty when it came to street sex and maybe the passing of disease. Was there a lot of crime, blight, harrassment? | ||
Jdp000109 Member Username: Jdp000109 Post Number: 33 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.245.91.232 |
I don't get that 7 mile joke 7 mile aint gay!! To me, i couldn't care less about gay people. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 617 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
I think to everyone in the Detroit Gay community, the complete lack of visibility is known. For some, it's a comfort, but for most it's just like being in the closet, even though most of us are "out" in our day to day. What it will take is a very stong core of gay entrepeneurs to band together and pick an area with potential and with a flick of their fairy wands and gay cash, begin the investment. I've always had some ideas of areas that would make great gayborhoods. The idea is, a very strong, organized cental core needs to show the rest of the community where to start, then the others will eventually follow. It absolutely can happen and should. Just like much of the Detroit area... a sense of community has been missing in the Detroit gay community for decades. Perhaps if anyone can show the rest of the Detroit area how to form a community, it could be the Gay community..? p.s. LOL @ DialH...not sure where I have read that before... | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1579 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
As with everything else, the cash portion is critical and also the most absent. I think there are a lot of great ideas out there, but not a lot of gay capital interested in moving into the city. Or really, doing much of anything anywhere, now that I think of it ... Giants swaths of empty land in each area don't really help either. There's no "fixer upper" area that has all the elements a district like this has (relatively dense mixture of homes, apartments, area for retail, etc). Well, there are a few areas, like Corktown, but I'd feel kind of bad taking that away from the hipsters. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 622 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
Del Ray could be come Del Gay! There's a swath of Michigan Ave. just past I96. West Village? South of the Henry Ford Hospital area? What about the Factories and warehouse areas at the 75/94 junction? Or Cass Park. That would be fabulous! | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1041 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.14.122.204 |
"The male Black collective is about masculine physical strength and power! ...we ain't let'n that sh*t happen in the hood!" Hey, Super_D: http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ ct/0767913981/002-3214972-9074 424?v=glance&n=283155 (Chuckle) It's ALREADY happening in your "hood"! | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.38.81.149 |
I was having this discussion this weekend with some friends. I'm assuming it was prompted by the same article. Anyway, pretty much the identical points were raised, however, something that really hasn't been mentioned here is that there are already a pretty substantial amount of gay entrepreneurs (or at least those catering to gay customers) out there. As sketchy as they may be, off the top of my head there are what...10 gay bars in the metro area? Add that to the handful of "friendly" places, the number of businesses is enough to create the core of a district. My/our question was, have any of these owners ever sat down to discuss the creation/re-creation of a gayborhood? None of us actually know any of them, anyone here know an owner or operator of any of these places? Why are they where they are? Do they have to fight too much NIMBY-ism to move or just get started in the first place? Are they doing just fine now so there is no incentive to move? I have no experience in running a bar, but it seems to me that having all the bars on the same street and or same neighborhood would be a boon to all. From an outsider looking in, it just seems that banding together would be a no-brainer...but I'm sure it's much more complicated. Of course, I'm not saying that bars are the only thing to do or the most important form of buisness to promote in the gay community, but it just seems that having a bar district is the first step in the gayborhood creation process. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 624 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
Actually, the catalyst is a bar surounded by viable, convertible, salvagable housing. The denser, the better. I mean, ask yourself. How do gayborhoods happen? A few gays move into the neighborhood and tell their friends how great it is and they convince them they should move there. The housing is necessary. Then a bar pops up. Then another. Then a shop, more gays move into the neighborhood, etc... In the case of Detroit or midtown in particular, we have a decent amount of gays already... What needs to happen is someone with a vision and cash and balls to invest and create something cutting edge, FUN and inviting. Something like Beans & Bytes, but for gays! Have security available on the streets so everyone feels safe. It will grow from there. For example, what if someone were to buy the Temple Bar on Cass, renovate it, make it a RESPECTABLE place for respectable people? Have fun campy nights. Speed dating Evenings. Something that causes the clientele to show up and WANT to be there. Then someone buys the building on the corner of Cass and Temple and renovates it, etc. It's completely possible and doable. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1580 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
Hey Higgs, there are actually more like 25 gay bars and restaurants in the area, but most of them are well-established in their current location and have no incentive (or no ability) to incur the significant legal, logistical, marketing and financial hassles that would accompany a move. [As an aside, contrast this number with 75 gay bars in Chicago, NOT including gay restaurants and their bars (of which there plenty) or other gay businesses.] I think it will take a few forward thinking new entrepeneurs to push things forward, combined with a general trend in gay people looking for a place to live in the city and having housing available there. The areas DetroitDuo mentions could all be possibilities, and some have a few of the components already (West Village has the gay population and the rent/own combination, plus the charm; south of Henry Ford Hospital has good bones and a gay bar but no seedling gay population). The thing is, I know a lot of people who WANT this stuff to happen, but I have met no one either capable of or interested in putting the money into it. It's that classic Detroit conundrum. But I think things can at least start to turn around if more gay people make a point of spending time at Detroit establishments, as well as moving into the city. It'll be a slow build of buzz, but like the slow ramp-up of Guerrilla Queer Bar, it could eventually take off. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7291 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
Dial/Duo - Just a question. Not implying anything but just a question as a matter of coutesy to the gay community. I am a straight man but I have many gay friends so I have wondered about this. If my gay friends and a few of us straight fellows were to go out for a drink. Let's say one mentioned a gay bar and to support them looking to meet someone we deceide to go to a gay bar. Is it disrespectful to the climate of a gay bar for straight guys to attend with their gay friends? I am sure that I have been in bars that are predominately gay but not exclusive. Would it be bad for straight people to attend with their gay friends? My main concern is that if too many straight people went with their gay friends it may take away from the fact that it is a true gay bar and may start to attract more of a straight crowd and chase out some of the gay clientele. Hopefully this isn't worded to come off in an offensive manner. If so, I apologize as that is not my intent. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 625 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
jt1 - nothing offensive in any manner. Ofcourse you're a str8 man. There is absolutely nothing wrong for a str8 guy/gal to join their friends to a gay bar. Just as there's nothing wrong with a gay guy/gal to join their friends to a str8 bar, but be aware, you are somewhere where guys may hit on you or you may see guys getting it on, hot and heavy, just as you may see at a str8 bar with str8 people. Unless you go around pointing, laughing, saying disrespectful things or being an all around ass, then you are welcome and will continue to be so. Str8 people are always welcome to a gay bar, but remember, it's that, a gay bar, not a str8 bar. You WILL see things or get hit on. If you can't handle that, then don't go. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7293 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
"but remember, it's that, a gay bar, not a str8 bar." That was my concern if too many straight people accompany their friends (which in this region probably wouldn't happen) would it begin to lose clientele. Just trying to be sensitive to the fact that the metro area offers so few gay establishments. I was thinking about the same idea as a bar that is predominately an ethnic hang-out. It gets a coll tag by a few people who tell their friends then it is over run by a new crowd essentially chasing out the crowd the place was intended to cater too. I would consider it flattery for anyone man or woman to hit on me. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1581 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
As in the infamous "Temple episode" in Ferndale. The Pronto owners opened up what was easily the slickest, nicest bar in Ferndale as a gay bar/restaurant/dance club. This was before Bosco or anything like that in the area. They had drag queens and gogo boys and everything to make it seem very big city gay. It didn't take long for the straight crowd to discover it, and it started to be like a little gay theme park. You'd be out on the dancefloor and there would be whole group of straight people standing right in the middle, not dancing, watching the drag queens, or a bachelorette party ogling the gogo dancers. It seemed like all the gay people cleared out by 11. The last time I went there I ran into more straight people that I knew than gay people. The gay crowd ultimately ended up abandoning it completely because it became this really REALLY straight pickup type bar, complete with straight guy barfights, drunk floozies, etc. It closed not too much later. The /aut/ bar in Ann Arbor is an example of a gay bar that regularly attracts a straight crowd, especially to its patio in the summer. It never gets out of control, everyone mixes it up and has fun, and it ten years down the road it remains the gay hub of Ann Arbor social life. But then again, it's Ann Arbor and not Detroit, the two gay communities are very different. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 188 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Gay enough! Is that like being black enough? And, if so, what is “black enough” or “gay enough”? Being a student of human nature I am curious about these two colloquialisms. When I hear “gay enough” I conjure up all kinds of images. Could this be gay enough?  Livedog2 wondering +<(:-)~ | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1583 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Too gay! Is that like being too black? And, if so, what is "too black" or "too gay"? Being a student of human nature, I am curious about these two colloquialisms. When I hear "too gay" I conjure up all kinds of images. Could this be too gay?  dialh4hipster, wondering. :-o<===8 | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.38.81.149 |
Dial- you’re right there are more than 10 bars in the area… I really didn’t think that through. It just seems like there are only a handful. I buzzed through the other threads you linked to, it appears that this discussion is much the same as the others….and is dying much the same death. But, my question to anyone would be, why must this much needed gay district be in Detroit? It seems to be a reoccurring theme in these discussions that any gay district MUST be in the City. Just for conversations sake, what happened to Ferndale? I know it’s derided as passé, but, like it or not, it’s the de facto gayborhood for the region. I guess what I’m saying is, instead trying to create a gay district out of whole cloth somewhere in Detroit proper, why isn’t there more interest in supporting a place where there is at least some recognizable community already? Isn’t there something to be said for improving what we have instead of hoping one day something better will be created? If the seeds are already planted, does it really matter that its Ferndale and not New Center? Does it lose too many cool points because it’s not edgy enough? Has it been conceded to the str8s? | ||
Adm70 Member Username: Adm70 Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 207.181.7.66 |
The story was more about Metro Detroit - not the city proper. I KNOW I have never had a rproblem finding gays in Detroit proper. Detroit is unusual because even the bars are somewhat segregated. Apparently the guys in the story have been to NE DTW. | ||
Adm70 Member Username: Adm70 Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 207.181.7.66 |
sorry - i should have said 'never been to NE Detroit' | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 629 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.52 |
It's not a matter of "cool points" or being edgy. It's a matter of being gay. Quite frankly, I don't find Ferndale gay or even gay friendly. What I find in Ferndale is a bunch of gays living in suburban homes, trying not to be "too gay". Even in Ferndale, I do not feel as comfortable as I do in Boystown (Chicago) or the Short North (Columbus). I feel more comfortable in Detroit, than in Ferndale. But that is just me! perhaps for others, it's a different feeling. Regardless, Ferndale is too small to accomodate a diverse gay community. A true gayborhood must be a part of a bigger City, where the larger community can feed off the energy of the gayborhood and vice versa. A community like Ferndale is not able to support this exchange for longterm. That's why, it's becoming time for the gays to leave Ferndale and find a place to call their own, in the City. A gayborhood in a suburb is nothing more than that. A suburb. Even Ferndale's gayness has faded in the last 3 years. | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 144 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.30.248 |
I was going to type what Detroitduo just said, but he beat me to it. It looks like a lot of people are in agreement of a lot of things. Except for the implementation... | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1586 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
I'm with Detroitduo and Spaceboykelly on the Ferndale thing, too. | ||
Crew Member Username: Crew Post Number: 947 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 146.9.52.17 |
Screw it, I'm moving in with DetDuo. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 632 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
HHmmmm... Crew... you just made me smile. | ||
Higgs1634 Member Username: Higgs1634 Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.38.81.149 |
I'm in total agreement that Ferndale is a joke in terms of gay ghetto standards. However, if the community is ever going to be jumpstarted elsewhere, it seems to me that Ferndale needs to be abandoned completely. Ferndale is a joke, we all agree it’s a joke, it needs to die. Allowing it to exist as the gay district by default is just perpetuating the problem of not having a vibrant recognizable gayborhood in the City. Right now it’s a crutch…”it may suck, but at least it's there” seems to be the sentiment. IMHO a logical first step would be moving MotorCity Pride out of Ferndale, merging with Hotter than July and putting it on in one of the target areas noted in this thread. Not bloody likely as the shiny new multi million dollar affirmations center is going up on 9 mile… but God forbid we just have one pride in this area instead of a black one and a white one a month apart. Is that done anywhere else in the country? I guess the real problem is that there just aren’t enough people that really care enough to change things. I’m just as guilty as anyone...I recently crossed into gay senior citizen territory by passing 30 (to the surprise of many gayboys, I’m still able to feed and dress myself in my enfeebled condition), I have a regular job, and I’m happily coupled. Not to put too fine a point on it, but I have my own life to worry about. Carving out a gay niche is not really high on my priority list. It may be cynical, but I think a lot of the young energetic types that would breathe real life into a vibrant gay district leave here for the “destination” cities just like a lot their str8 counterparts from this area do. Until the overall brain drain from this region stops, I don’t really see anything changing for the better in the gay community. | ||
Boss_hogg Member Username: Boss_hogg Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.178.225.98 |
You know...letting political buzz words and envy of Chicago and (omg) Columbus define where you live now is a load of crap. At the risk of beating a dead horse...if you don't like it here - leave. I like Detroit - in spite of and because of all of its flaws and shortcomings. And I'll like it for as long as I live here. If more suburbanites turn in their pre-fab box houses and decide to live here too, that's fine by me. If we have a cheesy commercial section built by the pizza people, that's cool. It totally sucks that we have 2 pride events separated by a month and skin tone. But if we - including those posting on this thread - really wanted anything different - we would change it. | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 269 Registered: 03-2004 Posted From: 4.229.42.158 |
Why not try to integrate the two Pride events? If you're black, go to both Hotter Than July *and* Motor City Pride. If you're white, do the same. And bring your friends. | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 173 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.148.60.142 |
I don't know anything about the housing surrounding the area, but do you think there's enough potential for a business district along Holden around Trumbull in the area south of Henry Ford Hospital? Some of the houses could even be converted for commercial uses. Detroitduo also mentioned the 94/75 junction (Milwaukee Junction). There's many potential storefronts along the Blvd west of I-75, detached housing to the north, and warehouse districts to the south. | ||
Jdp000109 Member Username: Jdp000109 Post Number: 37 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 69.245.91.232 |
I live in Romulus, there was a gay couple that lived about 2 blocks over in my neighborhood but i remember some kids spraypainted up their house and constantly harassed them and the eventually moved. I'm sure theres more gay people over here but when they are open about it, they are not accepted in black community's. (unless they're damon from friday after next) | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4081 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.229 |
Jdp000109, Gay folks are NOT welcome in someplaces, but in other places that homosexuals are welcome. Maybe its better for them to start a Sanctuary for them. That way they won't be hurt from those anti-homosexual and religious folks. (Message edited by danny on May 04, 2006) (Message edited by danny on May 04, 2006) | ||
Boo Member Username: Boo Post Number: 129 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 63.117.185.99 |
i am going to have to agree with dialH- i can't see a lot of gay entrepreneurs stepping up and parting with dollars for business ventures in unestablished eras that would be riskier than hell. especially when the strong lure of other cities is always over your shoulder... about the only thing i can think of that would get the sort of capital needed would be to form a sort of cooperative where people opt in and share ownership of the bar/stores. it gives incentive to patronize these places and helps to establish a built in community with real interest in the project. but, getting a couple dozen mo's in a room arguing about money does not sound like the most promising scenario either... | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 175 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.148.60.142 |
Boo, I don't think that's a bad idea at all. Detroit could use (well-managed) coops in general. So far I've heard several good ideas in this thread. Combining them, a Detroit Synergy coffee talk to get people arguing about investing money in a coop and deciding what neighborhood, of the ones DetroitDuo mentioned, in which to try it out. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1610 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
A couple of interesting articles this weekend about the traditionally gay neighborhoods in two nearby cities, and the transitions they are undergoing: Chicago: 5 Pockets Stand Out in City Makeover (May 14, 2006) (Boystown discussed in the last three sections of article, starting with "Where the boys aren't") http://www.suntimes.com/output /news/cst-nws-hoods14.html Toronto: Goodbye Gaytown? Church Street's gay village, the centre of gay culture in Toronto, is under siege (May 13, 2006) http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/ cs/ContentServer?pagename=thes tar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_ pageid=971358637177&c=Article& cid=1147517247214 | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 646 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
I love these articles. Thanks DialH. This tells me 1 of 2 things... 1) Detroit is more advanced than these cities and has already done these things (read, the gays saved Royal Oak in the 80s, but have been moved out, moving to Ferndale and once again, being pushed out by pricing). 2) Detroit is behind the times and cannot establish a gay community in the city for this sort of gentrification evolution to occur. Actually, I think somewhere in-between is the truth. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1143 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.153 |
I've been thinking about this thread for some time, and I do think that the city of Detroit needs some sort of strongly identifiable Gay Commercial District (GCD) and/or Gay Ghetto (GG) within its borders, which would act as the center of the gay community for the region. (As defined in this other thread.) A successful newly-formed GCD in the city would signal that the resurgence of the city as the hip/trendy/whatever cultural center of the region is real, and it could generate a lot of spin-off growth, if it was located in the right area. As a non-gay person, I have no interest in gay bars, but I could imagine some spin-off businesses in a GCD such as nice restaurants, coffee shops, resale shops, specialty grocers, designer furniture stores, etc, which would be of use to me. Heck, just having another vibrant commercial district in the city as a place to walk around would be great. As for location, georgraphically speaking, something in the midtown area might be ideal, since it's centrally located in the city, you're near Wayne State, the museums and the CBD, and there's a decent mix of reasonably dense housing and potentially walkable commercial strips around there. I'm not certain if there's a single perfect spot, though. The West Village area is perhaps less ideal geographically since it's tucked away on the eastside, but in other respects it might be better... lots of charm, a great mix of housing, from high rises such as the Parkstone, condos and small houses, to the old mansions in Indian Village. Plus a few potential commercial strips on Agnes, Kercheval, Jefferson. Plus there's a modest-sized gay community as a starting point. Detroitduo mentioned the I-75/94 warehouse area, is that the milwaukee junction area in the northeast corner of 75/94? That seems to me like it might be too isolated from everything else to really work... it violates one of your criteria: "A true gayborhood must be a part of a bigger City, where the larger community can feed off the energy of the gayborhood and vice versa." Personally, I think the ultimate GCD would be Capitol Park. I suppose tackling this one may be too ambitious and the $ aren't quite there, but these are the positives: Very dense (almost too dense?) with various beautiful old skyscrapers poking up in the background behind the equally beautiful buildings right on the park. And you have the little park in the middle defining it and giving it a great urban feel. It easily has the potential to be 100 times more fabulous than anything in Ferndale. And it's extremely connected to the rest of the city which can "feed off its energy and vice versa", it's just a block over from Campus Martius, Merchants Row and all that. But it's also tucked away enough that it's not too in-your-face, if you're worried about generating any negative reaction. It definitely qualifies as a "fixer upper" area, and some of the empty building space could be converted to lofts... the bus stop there is probably preventing a nicer commercial district from taking off there at the moment, but once that moves to its new location, the sky's the limit, I say. So, what are you waiting for? Break out the rainbow flags. Gay it up! I'm counting on you. (Message edited by Dougw on May 16, 2006) |
