  Detroitman Member Username: Detroitman Post Number: 971 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 216.78.48.29 |
Natural food shop to open next to organic bakery in Midtown Willis just west of Cass will add a natural food market to its retail strip, which also includes Avalon International Breads, when Good Wells opens its doors within the month. Operations manager James Woods says the story will be stocked with “organic produce and staples for people into health foods and natural foods.” Currently under construction, Good Wells has long been a goal of the group working to open the store. Woods says, “Just about everybody involved are strict vegetarians and are also active in … helping to improve the health of the community. So, having a small, natural, health-food place in the heart of the community has been a dream of all of ours.” The store will be open seven days a week from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. and will also carry pre-made salads and sandwiches and supplements. Source: James Woods, Good Wells http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/goodwells43.aspx Martini lounge planned for Carlton Lofts in Brush Park An upscale martini lounge is under development in the Carlton Lofts building in Brush Park. Partners Julian Hill and Chico Sorrell have teamed up on the project, which they aim to have open by Thanksgiving. The 4,000-square-foot lounge will be designed by Johnny Janviriya whose resume includes Crave, Congress Lounge, and Mosaic. Hill owns the Celebrity Car Wash on Woodward; Sorrell formerly represented companies such as Corvousier, Level Vodka and Mumm while previously working for a marketing company in New York. He says, “The next logical step was ownership.” “The Brush Park area is historic and there are beautiful buildings being renovated,” Sorrell says of the location. He credits Carlton developer Jim Wickenheiser with vision to take a chance on their project. “This will bring value not just to the building, but to the whole community. We’re going to do this the right way.” Source: Chico Sorrell, Carlton Lofts Lounge project http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/martini43.aspx | ||
Spidergirl Member Username: Spidergirl Post Number: 203 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 63.77.247.130 |
This is the best part of the whole article!! | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 615 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
I am not sure I am excited about a martini bar in the Carlton Lofts... I guess it depends on what kind of place this is going to be. In my opinion is must be ultra-modern, very laidback and a total meet-n-greet kind of place. I somehow feel the neighborhood would be better served if this place were a chic-urban café or even split to include a convenience/grocery store. The space is awesome and should be something which serves the lofts and the overall Brush Park community. AND it better have a cool name, too... not "Carlton Loft Lounge". They should call it "Brush" or "Car Lounge" or shit I don't know, but something catchy and chic, not like, "Woodward Avenue Breakfast Grill". LAME! | ||
Kbkav Member Username: Kbkav Post Number: 234 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.217.229.107 |
the lounge is not named yet - "carlton loft lounge project" is just an identifier. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7294 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
How will they get the word 'Detroit' in it like so many new estabilshments. The Detroit Brush Park Ultra Lounge just rolls off the tongue and makes me want to enter. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1475 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
How about: The Detroit Brush Park Beer, Martini, Wine, and Other Assorted Cocktail Ultra Lounge | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1033 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
hooray for the natural food store! not so much for the martini place. I don't much care for martini's and I kinda doubt any neighborhood, especially one in detroit, would be very well served by some shi-shi bar. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 626 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
LOL! Thanks guys. But I am serious. If Julian Hill and Chico Sorrell are reading this, Make it Hot, Chic and no stupid, long, complicated name for the lounge, huh? Even (Proof) is original and fun. OH and don't try to use "@" or other internet trendy symbols. I'm also tired of the lush, luxurious velvet, conservative "Detroit" styling many of these "upscale" clubs put in. Go to the edge! Make it ultra modern, but warm. Make it urban, but comfortable. LIGHTING, LIGHTING, LIGHTING! OK, I'm off my soapbox. I hope I have made my point. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1582 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
I think a martini lounge is a cool idea there because it pulls a little activity off Woodward and into the neighborhood. All the best neighborhoods have activity off the main commercial drag, cool places around the corner or down the street. As a matter of fact, if it becomes more of a neighborhood hangout than a see-and-be-seen Financial District type place, that would be awesome. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 315 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
There was a natural food place next to Avalon previously and I don't think it did that well. I wonder what Good Wells plans to do differently. As far as the Martini lounge, ick. What neighborhoods need are neighborhood bars to hang out and let loose in. I doubt I'll ever go there. But that's just me, and I don't live in Brush Park and I despise martinis. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1780 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.105 |
Sorry, I don't see this place surviving long. All I see is another overpriced, out of the way bar in a sea of overpriced, bareley making it, out of the way bars. How about putting is something that Brush Park really needs and can't be found nearby. There has to be at least 100 bars within 1/2 mile of this place. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1034 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.20 |
don't quote me on this, but I thought I read here a while ago that there was suspision of extreme mismanagment of the cass co-op while at this location. Sounds at least like this new establishment will be a privately owned business for starters... (Message edited by gravitymachine on May 02, 2006) | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 830 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
from the time they announced the redevelopment of the carlton the developer made it known that they were marketing that spot for a upscale bar, or lounge. where were your ideas for what "brush park residents need" then???? | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 803 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.79.94.221 |
while it is in a different neighborhood (and I haven't been there in years) but Double Olive in GPP always seemed to have a nice normal group of people for being a "martini" bar. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1782 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.233 |
A little touchy aren't we? Does my suggestion that it won't work come a little too close to reality for you. Just because the developer was marketing it that way doesn't mean it will work that way. What makes them think they will do any better than the Atlas, Temple bar, Harry's, Hockeytown, State, Proof, Cheli's, Town Pump, D'Eduardo, Centaur, Fifth Ave, Comet, 2500 club or Cliff Bells? All not much further from my house than the Carlton. | ||
Peanut_breath Member Username: Peanut_breath Post Number: 132 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 66.73.225.162 |
How can health food and martinis spur this much cynicism and negative reaction? Lighten up. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1479 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Maybe it is because there are a growing number of people who realize that the ills of detroit will not be cured with the addition of new upscale trendy bars... Trust me, I like bars. Spend a lot of money in bars. But 1/4 full bars scattered all over the place (or concentrated in one area) does nothing to make the city feel more lively or energetic (except from the view out of a car window). At this point we are saturated with bars, and need to find the people to fill them up. What happens to the wonderful "re-birth" when half the people who have sunk down cash in the past 3 years close up shop because they can't make a profit? Another martini bar is not going to do anything to make this city more liveable or attractive. Not going to attract a resident or a job. Not going to sell a loft or a lot. I have a feeling (and I hope I am wrong)that it won't even sell that many martini's... | ||
Peanut_breath Member Username: Peanut_breath Post Number: 133 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 66.73.225.162 |
I don't think the intent of this thread was to cure the ills of Detroit through Tofu or olive-filled cocktails. I get frustrated that this forum too often squeezes every bit of hope from even the minor developments in this city. There's being a realist, then there's being overly-bleak. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 316 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 69.220.142.7 |
Ndavies, Slow's, La Dolce Vita and many other bar/restaurants have proven that location doesn't matter in a car based city. If the fare is good, they will come... even if you don't have convenient parking. Well have to wait an see how good this place is and see if it has what people want. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1784 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.105 |
I agree that people will drive to something special. My problem is, in that area it's not special. Why go there when you can go to the other places I've listed. The area is saturated with bars. far more bars than can be sustained. All the kinds of bars you can think of are already there. Martini bars, dive bars resturant bars, sports bars gay bars, and dance clubs. Most with much better visibility than this. It is quickly becoming musical bars. One opens, another closes. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 804 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.79.94.221 |
Like the old Guindon comic(paraphrased)... "Come to Birmingham this fall and watch the storefronts change." | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1480 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
First off, I am not sure if anybody was overly bleak about the health food store. Quite frankly, to the point that I believe both Ndavies and myself are making - it is not just another bar. In fact it is a business that provides a unique service to residents of that area, as well as will be a destination for people from other areas in the city. This is great! and just the type of development that is needed. However, another martini bar is so -- yawn. Maybe they'll build a night club with a VIP lounge and velvet ropes down the block. We have more of that type of entertainment then we have people to fill the places. I hope it does well. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 832 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
ndavies - not touchy, my point was just that most everyone in the neighborhood has known what that space was being marketed as, so there has been plenty of time to lobby for something else. don't get me wrong, I live in the neighborhood and would love to see a small market, or something like that, but is that realistic right now? there is a huge difference in risk between opening a bar, and opening a retail business in a developing neighborhood. people will go out of their way to visit a bar that is marketed well, while a retailer is much less likely to take a risk in a neighborhood that doesn't have a measurable customer base. we talk about this over and over again, but there need to be more rooftops to attract more retail. maybe next weeks cityscape event will answer the questions. see the thread titled "How Retailers Choose Where They Will Build Stores;" | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1785 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.105 |
I already know how retailers choose stores. I already know why there's no decent stores in Brush Park. It's obvious. There aren't enough people with money to spend to support it. Unfortunately, none of these Martini bars are doing the research to discover the market is way over served already. The owners seem to think a liquor license is a ticket to print money. Just start serving drinks and the entire Metro area is going to show up. | ||
Rsa Member Username: Rsa Post Number: 840 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.217.228.163 |
thank you peanut breath; it's becoming increasingly difficult to be an optimist on this board (and in this city). honestly, who really cares if they don't succeed with a new bar? it's not like they're taking away space from another retailer. at the very least they're spending money to improve a space. businesses open, and businesses fail. good business skills usually lead to a long running business. if it doesn't work, sux to be the owner. nature of the beast of capitalism. and really; it's the nature of the scene. bars and clubs are very competitive. the market usually is saturated. tastes and trends change. don't like a martini bar? then don't go there. hey, it might convince some hipsters to move into the building above. you never know... | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 833 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
damn you’re arrogant. maybe you should lead the cityscape event next week? Not that this is particularly worth arguing, but how many bars have opened in the last few years, and how many have closed? How do you know these business owners have not done their research? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1584 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Now now, folks, let's keep things in perspective. Whether that bar succeeds or fails, having the liquor license with that space is a good thing. Because what would REALLY be great is a little neighborhood bistro. But people need to fill in the area a bit, so why not let a martini bar reside there for a while as a placeholder until the population is there to support something a little more appropriate? For instance. Secondly, as much as good city services are crucial to things turning around in the city, they aren't going to grab the attention of anyone considering a move anytime soon. It's like the domestic auto quality problem ... even when it's been addressed, everyone still assumes foreign cars are better. Same goes for the city - services could be restored and no one outside the city would believe it until the word got out from current city residents. I guess ultimately, I'm not sure what people are thinking. This city is huge, and there are tons of areas to be developed. One more bar in one area may not be the solution, but it's still investment in the city, and the more of that people see, the more comfortable they may be putting their own money into the mix. Conversely, the failure of a business like this might send the message - hey, try something new. Now that I'm on a rant here, this brings me back to my biggest bitch about the redevelopment of buildings downtown and that is the crazy amount of control landlords want over what goes into their ground floor space. I mean sure, there are things that might be ideal for your space, and certainly some things that are definitely bad. But come on, retail space around the city sits pretty much empty, generating no revenue, because building owners tend to think the perfect business with an amazing amount of capital is going to come knocking on their door. Well obviously it isn't going to happen. So how about being reasonable and accepting current market realities and being a bit more flexible in what you are willing to do for your space in order to at least get SOME revenue generating income from your ground floor, and SOME street-level activity in the city, so that it can start a more organic and less micro-managed growth of the city life that everyone moving down here craves. I mean seriously, aside from people living upstairs in the buildings, street-level Detroit looks a lot like it did 5+ years ago. Obviously I have a chip on my shoulder about that issue, and I know there is more to it than just "rent your space." But keep in mind that at least this building is getting some revenue from the ground floor retail while Lofts @ Woodward, Kales and others are not. Now that's one to grow on. | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 834 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
good points. I'd like to see more of the temporary businesses like nomadic theater troups, or art galleries - businesses that involve minimal improvements. get SOMETHING in the space! | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 627 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.52 |
And Knowing is half the battle... | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 628 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.52 |
OK. KH4H, your points are valid and I share your frustration, more from a consumer side, than your experience, but anyway, I will agree with you. btw, Jfried, I don't remember anyone making an announcement that the owner was looking for feedback from the neighbors of what they might want in there? Perhaps there was a community meeting I missed? Regardless, I will only bitch about this place if it is another tired club that only causes problems in the neighborhood. Otherwise, I accept the investment in the neighborhood and will hope and pray that in the next 3 years, we will get what we NEED and that would be a reasonably priced bistro or grocery.  | ||
Jfried Member Username: Jfried Post Number: 835 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.190 |
dduo - I think you are correct that there was never a formal request from the developer for input. however, that's where a community needs to take the intitiative to make their desires known - do you think greater corktown waits to be asked what they think of the latest plan for the ballpark? From what I understand the developers "vision" was a upscale bar, but they were open to any retail that would have been proposed. but I agree, I hope we can see some type of market soon. btw, there was also talk about a market in the 1st floor space at the crystal ballroom (the loft conversion at Watson & Woodward, but last I heard the plan was now for a restaurant. | ||
Bpjeff Member Username: Bpjeff Post Number: 2 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 198.185.18.207 |
I am a resident of the Carlton and from the time I first saw the "raw" space of the building (about 3 years ago), the developer stated that he intended to have the space used as an upscale lounge. It is my understanding that the space was originally a jazz lounge when the building was a hotel and drew some well-known musicians at the time. Supposedly Della Reese made her public debut there. The liquor license was transferred from a bar that was torn down on Edmund, between Woodward and John R. I think it was called Edmund Place. | ||
Redetroit Member Username: Redetroit Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I can tell you this, they definitely won't be sparing any funds in that lounge area. The designer, Johnny Janviriya, is very well known in the area...and very expensive!! He has a great reputation and does really nice work. I guess that's one positive thing to look at, at least it'll be a nice place. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 634 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 194.138.39.54 |
DetroitKev can probably give a little insite on that development. I will take either or, there. But I am hoping for some sort of grocery in the next 3 years. A grocery there would be a perfect walk from my home. Then again, a restaurant would be a nice walk, too. The walk to Atlas isn't bad...even in the winter. | ||
Bpjeff Member Username: Bpjeff Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 198.185.18.207 |
Dduo - I totally agree. The biggest thing I miss after moving from the suburbs is a nice grocery store like Westborn. |
