Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 DeVos: Not Welcome in His Own Back Yard? Previous Next
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Ron
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Username: Ron

Post Number: 92
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.79.231
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 10:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060505/NEW S05/605050333/1122
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 698
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.40.89.238
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 10:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've heard the same stuff from friends and relatives in the Grand Rapids area, basically beware of this guy, he sounds good, but the stories are over blown.
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Dnvn522
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Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 115
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.24.64.25
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I work with a guy who lives in northern Kent County. He absolutely HATES Granholm...but he's already stated that he won't vote for DeVos. He hasn't said why exactly, just that he doesn't trust him. I assume it's from something he's seen or read in the past.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7319
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Speaking of his back yard - Has there been any announcement on the GR $2 Billion project?
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Gildas
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Username: Gildas

Post Number: 621
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 147.240.236.9
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The article also mentions that Granholm didn't do well in areas that she should be stronger in. Its going to be an interesting race.
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 60
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 216.111.89.3
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The unpopularity of Bush and Devos having supported George W with significant funds will do him in.

Even though Michigan's economy has struggled, I think Jennifer will win a close race again.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7320
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like the citizens are again stuck with a 'lesser of two evils' vote.

If only a time came whether it be local, state or federal where we actually had two decent candidates to choose from.
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Gumby
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Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1143
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.60.143.186
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What has Granholm done that has really hurt this state? I see everyone hating on her but they never really give a reason. Most of her problems stem from the mess Engler left her with.
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Salvadordelmundo
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Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:54 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"What has Granholm done that has really hurt this state?"

It really comes down to what she HASN'T done. Face it, the rest of the nation is in the midst of an economic boom. Michigan is being left behind. Granholm is in way, way over her head, and this is painfully clear just by glancing at the 'state of the state' right now.

This is why I'll vote for the Libertarian candidate, even though there is no chance of that person winning. It's time to send a message that incompetence will not be tolerated.
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Grguy
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Username: Grguy

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 65.142.207.7
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have plenty of reasons for not supporting the Republican upstart DeVos. Here's one:

In the summer during high school (1970s), a group of us guys would make the short drive from Grand Rapids to Holland and lug beer up the side of a partially wooded dune that rose up on the south side of the channel into Lake Macatawa. It was an easy walk down the dune to the Holland Yacht club where we would meet chicks, make out, strike out, and all that good stuff. We'd wake up the next day very early, frozen stiff, because a blanket or sleeping bag directly on the sand is a cold way to go. This was the occasional weekend of two glorious summers of my life at an edenic place, never to be repeated, even if it could. But it can't. That dune is now part of the heavily guarded DeVos compound, including, I believe, the landing pad for the helicopter. Of course, most of that change was made by DeVos Sr. Looking out at that dune today evokes a feeling akin to the way Detroiters would feel when driving by that WalMart at the corner of Michigan and Trumbull (in ten years).

No, i can't vote for that guy.
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Rberlin
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Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 531
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 75.7.200.151
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone notice that in his latest ad they picked a woman to narrate who sounds almost exactly like Granholm? I was really surprised because I thought it was one of her ads at first. Also at the end of the ad they made the claim that DeVos was the only candidate with a tax plan. Sure would be nice to know what is, wouldn't it? And if he's the only candidate with a tax play, I wonder what the heck was on all those pieces of paper that Granholm has been writing/signing these last 3 years?

Unfortionally, I've been hearing a lot of people saying that they think he's a legitimate business man and not a politician. I've also noticed quite a few DeVos stickers around Lansing, wedged in between the Family Life Radio, anti-abortion, and $1.75 support our troops ribbons, one finds on the back of so many 1987 Toyota Corollas around here.
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Ron
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Username: Ron

Post Number: 94
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.79.231
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C'mon Rberlin, DeVos' tax plan is ........................... cut taxes! (Who needs 'em? They're overrated anyways, they just allow us to pay for schools, prisons, roads, elder care, police.....you know the luxuries in life)
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2573
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.205.251.98
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We all know DeVos has sold his soul to the devil. How else can an 80 year man look like, um, 55? Give me a break Satan!

Somehow I expect some one to rip of his mask and find the Mr. Burns of the Simpsons lurking underneath. Does anyone have the phone number of his plastic surgeon, hair transplanter, and massage therapist?

No wonder the saying goes, "You can never be too rich or too young." :-)
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Cjdb16
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Username: Cjdb16

Post Number: 121
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.109.49.243
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How old is he?
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2575
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.205.251.98
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, 80.
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1041
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

never trust a man with beady eyes. that is reason enough not to vote for him lol
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Cjdb16
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Username: Cjdb16

Post Number: 122
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 198.109.49.243
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 12:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just called "Dick DeVos Headquarters" and they told me he's 50. Maybe it was a joke I didn't get?

I have no doubt he has sold his soul to the devil.
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Wally
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Username: Wally

Post Number: 239
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 136.2.1.103
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Richard DeVos Sr. is 80 yrs old, and is not running for governor.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 345
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2006 Michigan Gubernatorial election




Vote Libertarian!
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1121
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

who is the libertarian candidate? are they fielding one?
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Oliverdouglas
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Username: Oliverdouglas

Post Number: 9
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.209.181.108
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 2:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan has a problem similar that that of the country at large. Elect DeVos and with the Republican majority in the State House, we'll be well and truly f****d. Give Granholm a Democratic majority and she'll be able to accomplish a lot more.
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Toledolaw05
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Username: Toledolaw05

Post Number: 8
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 72.240.58.198
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 2:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What is the Granholm plan? I sure hope it isn't what we have seen over the last 4 years? She hasn't done anything to deserve getting reelected.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2536
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 70.141.77.141
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 2:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wilus, Bush's troubles equating with DeVos are canceled out by Michigan's troubles as well as Granholm's equating with Kilpatrick.

Bottom line: a close race
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2047
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.150.189
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 3:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lowell, you are joking.....? There's Devos SENIOR (80 years old) and Devos JUNIOR (50 years old).

Senior is actually 1/2 of the team that built up Amway Corp. Junior is the one taking credit for it.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2048
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.150.189
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 3:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is interesting to see that Macomb County voters do not look favorably towards Granholm.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 613
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 3:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right, Gistok. Mrs. G appears to have already lost the Reagan Democrats from where there is an overabundance of vacant buildings for sale/lease. Many of them were formerly Tier auto-part manufacturers and service firms which won't ever return. It'll be difficult for her to win without a fair chunk of Macomb.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on May 05, 2006)
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Dnvn522
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Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.24.64.25
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 4:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

who is the libertarian candidate? are they fielding one?



Officially, they don't have a candidate yet. The Libertarian Party of Michigan has their annual convention on May 13. Maybe we'll hear something then.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3650
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 8:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Grand Rapiders(ians?) really seem to dislike the guy, but like most Michigan city propers, it's pretty blue-collar and Democratic. And, as with most city propers, it makes up such a small percent of the metro area's population that it doesn't matter as much, and especially in an area as sprawled as West Michigan which is heavily conservative. Grand Rapids proper is truly and island over in those parts.
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 274
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 8:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the whole United States is suffering right now, not just Michigan

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s =NYBOT_DX&v=d1
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Umstucoach
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Username: Umstucoach

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 9:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Warriorfan--

Let's get out and vote, let's make our voices heard...we've been given the right to choose between a douche and a turd...it's democracy in action, put your freedom to the test...a big fat turd or a stupid douche, which do you like best.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 617
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 9:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think the whole United States is suffering right now, not just Michigan"

Funny, the Dow-Jones is at a 6-year high. How does this mean the whole US is suffering? The best way to counter baseless opinions is with facts. The DJ would be even higher if it weren't for Michigan dragging it downward...

Dow Jones Industrial Average for the past 35 years
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Rberlin
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Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 533
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 75.7.200.151
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The U.S. is doing better, probably the best it's done since 2001. However, it amazes me how many people just consider the stock market as the only indicator of economic well being for everyone in the country. The only stocks right now that mean a thing to most Michiganders are GM, F, and DCX. And those haven't been so hot lately.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3653
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, America is doing really great, economically...for middle-upper, and upper classes. I don't know about anyone else, but I measure our health by a lot more than the stock market. I measure it along with how many of our own have (or don't have) healthcare, if the gap between rich and poor is increasing or decreasing (from what I hear, it's increasing)...and so on. It's an old cliche, but we're only as strong as our weakest link. Saying that the country is doing good because the top 2% or so, are rolling in more money is short-sighted to say the very least. Translate that to the state of Michigan, and we're really not doing so hot.

(Message edited by lmichigan on May 05, 2006)
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 618
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 11:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's poorer class should take some initiative and move to where there are jobs. In that respect, the illegals have it way over those who whine and complain, yet stay here and expect the taxpayers to somehow support them.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3658
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 12:04 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And, you wonder why you're not taken seriously. You just advocated a mass relocation of a major chunk of what is left of Detroit to the suburbs. You wish, buddy. Get real. Your "dollar-and-cents" obsession doesn't seem to allow you to consider any other factors. I know you hate the fact that Detroit, as a central city, still exist, but get used to it.
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Wsukid
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Username: Wsukid

Post Number: 145
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.14.145.38
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 1:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From EPIC MRA survey group if the election were held today Granholm would win Detroit,Oakland, Lansing, and Grand Rapids.

Devos would win Flint, Saginaw (Tri-Cities, which I am shocked that he could win those three counties), Macomb (which I was told Granholm has never won Posthumus won it in 02), get chunks out of Wayne and Oakland (Granholm easily wins anything south of 14 mile)

They would tie in Northern Michigan,

Result Granholm wins. The problem is she has to get the central cities out and voting Detroit, Lansing, GR, Flint, Pontiac to out vote the rest of the state
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Ron
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Username: Ron

Post Number: 95
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 70.212.39.90
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard,

It is apparent that you do not understand the plight of those with nothing. A revolving cycle of poverty exists that makes it virtually impossible to simply comprehend the true means to financial success.

I was a first generation college student, and now my sister and I are both attorneys. The only reason this occurred is because we were never asked "Do you want to go to college?", we were always asked, from kindergarten, "Where do you want to go to college?" My mother worked three jobs to ensure that my sister and I went to the best schools (me at UD Jesuit High, my sister to Mercy High).

However, this is the exception, and not the rule. My sister's current neighbor in Granger, IN routinely instructs her 15 year-old daughter to make sure she marries a rich man, because the mother never attended college, and, lo and behold, married a rich man. And this is an upper middle-class white family. (In fact, the mother admitted to my sister that she never worked a day in her life).

Does this make any sense to you? To even suggest that a poor family (who is more concerned with merely putting food on the table at night than "relocating" to another region in order to pursue jobs that may never come to fruition) has the wherewithal to even fathom, let alone actually accomplish, a major relocation in these circumstances really reveals a lot about your background.

You must never judge another without walking the proverbial mile in their shoes. It is easy to criticize, and not make any attempts to improve upon that which you are criticizing. It is something totally different to actually try and change that which you criticize.

I am not trying to be unfair in any way to you. I just wish that you would share your insight with the rest of us, and actually assist us in making things better.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3661
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 1:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ron, no need trying to explain social aspects to him. He knows them, and denys them. To a conservative such as himself that screams "personal responsibility" at every turn they get as the solution to every problem, you could wax about sociology all night, and it wouldn't mean a thing. To them, it's not a debate at all, they've already effectively shut down the argument.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 620
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 2:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I find it hard to understand why some will come to this part of the US from Central America or Mexico for jobs, yet those living here in Detroit without jobs won't go a relatively short distance to find work. The economy's booming now, but it won't always be that way before it has a downturn. It might be soon, but more likely it will be OK for some time.

Converntional wisdom: If a region doesn't recover from a reccession after 1 to 2 years into a recovery means that it won't recover because something is fundamentally different from the rest of the country. Well, it's been four years now for the country at large, and Detroit tanked around late 1999, and more and more local firms are going down.

It doesn't cost much to travel. MegaBus costs $1 to go to Chicago, for example. Moving and being unemployed elsewhere temporarily is better than being continually un- or under-employed here. That's plain common sense.

Some are so confused that they think that employment is good or improving in the suburbs. And mass transit will take them there from Detroit. Pipe dreams! Maybe in some city's suburbs, but not anywhere around Detroit.

Besides, employers will take the best workers available, so that doesn't bode well for Detroit, all other things being equal. If people don't move temporarily (or permanently) for work, it's their problem if they remain jobless.

BTW, I went to Marquette University HS--an older [1857] and slightly larger [1072] Jesuit analog to UoD HS. No big deal.

(Message edited by livernoisyard on May 06, 2006)
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Ron
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Username: Ron

Post Number: 96
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 70.212.97.119
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 12:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

$6.00/hour x 40 hours week = $240/week x 52 weeks = $12,480 / 12 = $1,040/month.

Average amount of money it takes for one person to eat per month = ~$200 (my personal estimate, based upon my experience as a bankruptcy attorney).

Average monthly rent = AT LEAST $300/month (and this is on the very low side)

Average heating bill = $200/month

Average transportation cost = at least $150/month

So far, this comes to $850/month (and the monthly income hasn't been taxed yet)

Plus all other costs of living. And these costs are for only one person; what if there were three children in the house?

This certainly leaves a whole lot of disposable income to relocate to Chicago (or IN, or OH, or wherever else), permanently or temporarily, to seek a job that they may never get; or that they may get, but make the same amount of money at with higher costs of living.

Reality isn't so black and white. And the cure for poverty isn't as easy as you suggest. Do you really think that you are advocating anything that no body else ever advocated througout the history of mankind? (Since poverty has existed since civilization has existed).

I'm sure Marquette is a wonderful school. I spoke about my high school because I wanted to show that my experience being raised in a household below the poverty level was not the norm because of the emphasis my mother always placed on education, indoctrinating us from the time we could speak that we would be attending college. This experience was the exception, rather than the rule.
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Salvadordelmundo
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Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 11
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 3:27 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In any case, as this discussion points out rather well, Granholm's Michigan is nothing to celebrate, and returning her to office reminds me of the old maxim about insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different outcomes.
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Bearinabox
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Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.209.139.67
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 4:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"returning her to office reminds me of the old maxim about insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different outcomes."

So how would you classify electing Engler 3 times?
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Salvadordelmundo
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Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 12
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 4:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michigan politics is unfortunately something of a national joke. But hey, at least we beat out Ohio! Thanks, Taft.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 347
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 5:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The problem with Granholm is that she is so reliant on the Union vote that she won't dare take any steps to reign in the unions and high labor costs and risk offending her base. High labor costs are the primary reason why this state is bleeding auto jobs. Now I'm not saying the Republicans will be any better, they are so dependent on big business for support that they will favor them at the expense of the working citizen.

I just don't see why we have to choose between Democrats who provide quality of living for the working man at the expense of jobs or Republicans who provide jobs at the expense of the middle-class. What we need is a moderate of either party to run this state. Virginia's governor is a moderate Democrat, their state unemployment rate is 3.0% A moderate can strike an appropriate balance between labor and business without overly favoring either side. Neither DeVos nor Granholm are moderate enough for this state, Michigan is very "purple" and we don't need a governor who is solid "blue" or "red."
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1624
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.215.16.86
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 3:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

In any case, as this discussion points out rather well, Granholm's Michigan is nothing to celebrate, and returning her to office reminds me of the old maxim about insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different outcomes.



If there was another candidate on the ballot with some semblance of a plan, voting against Granholm would be an option. As it is, she is by far the best candidate for governor.

And that, more than anything else, is the sad part.
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Warriorfan
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Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 348
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 6:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think people will end up sticking with "the devil they know" (Granholm) as opposed to DeVos who is running on the "I'm not Granholm" platform. It didn't work for Kerry in 2004 and it won't work today. Which sucks, because this state can do a lot better than Granholm but there are few if any moderates left in either party who could provide a reasonable alternative.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 624
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 8:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People attack DeVos for his wealth and all. However, he probably will bankroll the bulk of his candidacy, whereas Granholm will probably do whatever her two largest "donors"--the tort lawyers and public-sector unions--expect her to do to justify their "investments."
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3664
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.87
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 8:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please, DeVos IS financing most of his won campaign with his fortune, but to imply that there are no strings attatched to this guy is crazy. He's just as "bought" as Granholm, and the only reason he even got the nomination from his party is because of his wifes many and strong connections within the Michigan Republican Party. He is anything but an outsider. His wife is another "Hillary Clinton" pulling the strings behind the scene.
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Susanarosa
Member
Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 815
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.79.94.221
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 8:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone watch Adolph Mongo on Flashpoint this morning?

It was kinda fun, in a "typically this guy is a trainwreck but he's so right today" kinda way.
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Michikraut
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Username: Michikraut

Post Number: 160
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 80.136.88.164
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 5:29 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I dont understand why so many people (Im thinking mainly middle aged white men (rep. or dem.) go into fits when a woman uses connections, position, and power to advance an agenda? Coining an even worse phrase than "liberal"- now the biggest insult is to call someone a "Hillary Clinton". Quit worrying wether or not they have bigger dicks and get over it! Times have changed-women can also now call the shots- perhaps it can improve candidates.
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Salvadordelmundo
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Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 13
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If Granholm is the best example Michigan has of a "woman calling the shots," then the women of this state should find someone new.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7346
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And DeVos is the best man for the State? This State is in some serious trouble.
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Salvadordelmundo
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Username: Salvadordelmundo

Post Number: 15
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.241.236.181
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately, yes. Hence the allure of third parties for me. Throwing my vote away? That's "fait accompli" given the candidates we have! At least if there is a stronger third-party showing, the main parties will begin to sense the underlying anger.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7348
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have been a supporter of the libertarian platform for many years. Unfortunately they have a great aganda and shitty candidates.

If a decent Liberterian candidate was on the ballot I would vote that way. I don't see support for a thrid party as wasting your vote when the other two options are both for crap.
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Metrodetguy
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Username: Metrodetguy

Post Number: 2538
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 70.228.0.175
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 12:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich, not so fast attacking Livernoisyard. I generally agree with him but he is dead wrong on the point about Detroiters moving in order to find jobs. Livernois is saying the exact same thing that I heard from several Kilpatrick campaign officials about police officers, teachers, etc. "should move to where the jobs are", yet no one said a word.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3674
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.74
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 8:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

huh? Please read your post, again.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2063
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.24.194
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 9:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I usually agree with Livernoisyard also.... when I read his comment it reminded me of the late commedian Sam Kinisen (sp?). He used to make fun of starving Ethiopian famine victims by shrieking out "Move to the food, you idiots! Move to the food!". :-) Sorry LY!
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Blueman459
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Username: Blueman459

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You east siders crack me up. You have one posting that Devos is 80 years old and another saying that his childhood was taken away by Devos building a compound on a sand dune next to Lake Michigan. First of all it's Van Andel's compound and Devos's residence isn't even near there. I'm not trying to be a jerk but I'm wondering if half of you guys know anything about him. What cracks me up is Granholm is always at press conferences smiling for the camera and saying that her hard work brought 100 new jobs to Michigan. She keeps forgeting we have lost 200,000 jobs since she's been in office. The only reason these companies are coming here is because they wont have to pay taxes for the next ten years. I don't think I can stomach four more years of her. For the people that will say "leave then" I say to you. This is one of the best states in the USA to live and raise a family. I don't care if you live in the east, west, south, or north part of the state. Michigan has a lot to offer. I just wish we had someone in charge that would take advantage of that. Devos for Governor 2006.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1629
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 70.236.173.208
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 1:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And what will DeVos do for Michigan?

What's his plan again?
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 300
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 1:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amway!
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 955
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 8:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It doesn't matter who was governor the last four years, those jobs would have left anyways. And its not Amway anymore, it's Alticor, or Quixtar. Same scam different name. And DeVos doesn't currently have a plan for Michigan, and if he does, he is not sharing it with anyone. He is running the Kerry campaign, I'm not _______, so vote for me. This is not how you win an election, that is why Bush is still president.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 822
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.90
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 10:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone else see this hysterical quote by Daddy DeVos from detroituncovered?


quote:

The father of Gubernatorial Candidate Dick Devos addressed the Economic Club of Grand Rapids recently and said , in reference to education , " if its its free, it's not worth much". He went on to say, " I have kids who work for me who don't have a college education that make millions of dollars", in reference to his Orlando Magic basketball team made up of mostly black athletes. Many believe his words sent the wrong message to minority youth which is don't worry about a college education you can always play basketball. Some are now wondering if son share's the same thoughts as dad.




Ahh, old folks do say some of the darndest things.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7360
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick jr. needs to muzzle his father really quick. After he does that he may want to share his plan with the voters.
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Rjk
Member
Username: Rjk

Post Number: 291
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.145.5
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually the Orlando Magic have 5 players on their roster with no college education, 2 African-Americans and 3 whites (Europe). One of them is Darko, probably the most well known Magic player in this state.

Not the first and it certainly won't be the last attempt at race baiting before the upcoming election.
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Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 957
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 1:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dick Sr was also laughing at his son's commercials of turning around Downtown Grand Rapids. Dick Jr had very little to do with it, it was Dick Sr and the Van Andel's.
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Fnemecek
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Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1631
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 70.227.13.6
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Anyone else see this hysterical quote by Daddy DeVos from detroituncovered?



I saw the quote, but not at DetroitUncovered. There have been a half dozen or so outlets that have picked it up.

Frankly, I think DeVos family has a contest of sorts to see which one of them can be the biggest wacko.

Dick, Sr.'s comments about education.

Betsy's comment that the problem with Michigan is that our workers make too much money.

Dick, Jr.'s assertion that he is responsible for everything in Grand Rapids - only to have his father and the voters in G.R. disagree with him.

The coming months should be very interesting.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2068
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.65
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Blueman459, why don't "you westsiders" tell us about your candidate? He is after all a known entity in your neck of the woods. What does he stand for (besides big business)?

We "eastsiders" know little about him, but a lot about his shrill Republican wife Betsy.

Also his name is spelled DeVos (with a capital "V").
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3678
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.223.78
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 6:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Outside of many of his political leanings on issue (many of which are far outside the mainstream), I think that Betsy is going to turn out to be his biggest liability when the real mudslinging starts not too far down the road.
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Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 960
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 6:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree LMichigan, there are lots of quotes from when she was head of MI Republicans that should seal the deal. This may be one of the reasons DeVos has been so vague about everything, that and Alticor/Amway is not exactly well liked by a lot of people.

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