Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2006 » The Motown Museum vs. Tiger Stadium « Previous Next »
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Harpernottingham
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Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 37
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.62.21.54
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When Motown Records left Detroit, they could've abandoned the old studio on West Grand Boulevard. Or tore it down. But today, it's that great little museum we all know and love. It's the first place many tourists visit when they come to town.

The same thing could happen at the corner of Michigan & Trumbull. If Kwame and George Jackson weren't hell-bent on tearing the stadium down.

Can't wait to hear what their big plans are for it.
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1050
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course, the home of the REALLY legendary Detroit record label, Fortune, was torn down in October 2001 (it was at 3942 Third Ave.).

Sometimes buildings that deserve to be preserved are kept viable, sometimes they're consigned to history. You can't save 'em all.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7329
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Harper - How much money are you putting in to help TS and Corktown. Are you doing anything to improve Corktown or just bitching from afar about 'what the city should do'

Tear that schitt down. If people are so concerned maybe they should sign a commitment to move into a new residence at the site if it saved and turned into mixed retail/residential.

That would probably shut up a lot of critics. Are you and the thousands of others bitching willing to move to the site if the field and 15,000 seats are saved or do you just want to drive by and look at it at your convenience.
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Harpernottingham
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Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 38
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.62.21.54
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've done plenty, JT1. And I mean plenty.

But I'm not here to toot my own horn. Nor am I here to get in a pissing match with anyone. I've done my share (from the inside, thank you), and I'll continue to do so.

Stay tuned. This should get interesting.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7332
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 1:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Then in that the podium is yours. I just get frustrated with all of the bitching from 30 miles away about how precious TS is and how stupid the city is for tearing it down.

The community's input is never mentioned in the papers and many 'save TS' people care about the residents and neighborhood of Corktown about as much as I care about my last poop.

I disagree on what the final results are but if you put your time, money and heart in your belief then I comment you.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 632
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.248.252
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 4:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Harp - if you were so on the inside you might be aware of the proposal that the GCDC is floating, that will preserve the field and ring it with appropriate residential/mixed use.

Glanz is blowing hot air with NO plan.

It would be foolish for the city to delay making a decision based on Glanz's "I need more time" line.

Now - if the city tears it down and doesn't preserve the field, and places a big box retailer on the sight, then I will be very disapointed.

I'm hoping that the city is ready to move ahead with the GCDC plan. If that's the case, we're all in good hands.
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Dnvn522
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Username: Dnvn522

Post Number: 117
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 204.24.64.25
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

90 year old stadiums can be reused. :-)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports /soccer/europe/2006-05-05-high bury-farewell_x.htm?csp=34

About 700 luxury apartments will be woven into the stadium's old facades, and a garden square replaces the soccer field.
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Southwestmap
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Username: Southwestmap

Post Number: 462
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.79.90.206
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 5:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am missing the reason for hurrying. What about the Book - vacant for 18 years and now being resurrected? What about Michigan Central - what's the hurry there?

How about, in my neighborhood, the old Fisher Guide building? No hurry there.

Why is the corner of Michigan and Trumbull such a nexus of worry? Enlighten me please.
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Matt_the_deuce
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Username: Matt_the_deuce

Post Number: 633
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.248.252
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about we ask a different question.

What is the best use for the site?

If you like the idea of preserving the stadium as is and bringing in another team to play there, then you would agree to delaying any decision.

Or - if you're afraid of a big box retailer coming in and using the sight with no sensitivity to the past, then delaying a decision is the right coarse of action.

Or - If a plan was in place to preserve the field and develop mixed use retail around the perimeter, then getting on with a decision would be best for those stakeholders.

Why don't we ask the neighborhood what they want?

They will be most affected and also have the most invested in real life dollars.

They like the latter of the proposals.

What does everybody think of that?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3649
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.172.95.197
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 8:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jt1, exactly what is your fixation on everyone that wants Tiger Stadium to be saved? You're damn near rabid about it. Why do you seem to be so hard on tearing Tiger Stadium down? I'd think any reasonable and open-minded individual would concentrate on any attempt to save it (be it last minute or not), not just the failed attempts. Jt1, why do you hate Detroit so much? :-) I kid.
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Vic_doucette
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Username: Vic_doucette

Post Number: 265
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.209.163.87
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, Motown didn't let Hitsville U.S.A. crumble away. But there was that small building at Woodward and I-75 ...
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Harpernottingham
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Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 44
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.62.21.54
Posted on Friday, May 05, 2006 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OUCH, VIC! That hurts.

(I was thinking it ... and you had to say it.)

If the stadium can be salvaged (or at least part of it), they should build a small hotel there, too, for all the visitors it'll attract.

IF it's done right.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7339
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.158.96.1
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmich - I just get frustrated with the people that don't have to see it and live near it everyday preaching about what the city should do.

All too many people that are gung ho about what Detroit should do forget that people live in Detroit and neighborhoods are affected by their fight for nostalgia.
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Huggybear
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Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 207
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.252.127.120
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Why don't we ask the neighborhood what they want? They will be most affected and also have the most invested in real life dollars.




I disagree that what "the residents" (or Tigers nostalgists) want should automatically be the deciding factor, particularly when put into a broader context of who is paying.

1. Corktown residents would not be bearing the brunt of the cost of preserving a derelict stadium and entertaining a multiyear bidding/financing process. That cost would be borne by all Detroit taxpayers. If this plays out anything like the BC has, then speculative adaptive redevelopment will consume millions in maintenance, security and preservation costs during a multiyear process of trying to lock down project funding. The City can’t afford to take money away from fire, police and refuse collection service in Detroit’s other functional neighborhoods to keep an unproductive shell from being burned, vandalized and stripped while someone tries to figure out how to do something with it and to pay for it.

2. Other than allowing them to discuss their concerns in zoning and City Council hearings, I'm not sure that the city owes any moral duty to Corktown residents to do what "they" want. The city's only moral duty is to keep the property operating at its best, highest and most economically productive use - to benefit all Detroit taxpayers. This means whatever generates the tax revenue. That may or may not be the proposed "Tiger Stadium Museum and Estates."

3. It is far from clear that "having the most real world dollars invested" is necessarily a moral issue where Tiger Stadium is involved. The fact that Tiger Stadium would be closed has long been on the table – ground broke on Comerica Park in 1997, nine years ago. Comerica Park has been in operation six years now. If Tiger Stadium has any effect on property values, then people buying into Corktown over the past decade most likely benefitted pricewise from the uncertainty surrounding Tiger Stadium – and the possibilities that the stadium might be empty, be reused, be turned into a big box, or be turned into a parking lot. Should the rest of Detroit residents pay to give some people a better deal than they paid for?

We have been hearing about adaptive reuse for several years now, with no progress toward what matters: financing. George Jackson is right that at some point, you have to fish or cut bait on something like this. The proposed residential and commercial reuses are a radical departure from what this structure was and may be simply too much to make this project work. Maybe it's just time to design a multiuse project from a clean slate.
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Harpernottingham
Member
Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 49
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 66.178.227.202
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 7:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame will be chiming in on the ballpark any day now.
But whatever he says, just keep this in mind:


OFFICE OF THE MAYOR PRESS RELEASES
March 4, 2004

MAYOR ANNOUNCES PLANS TO TRANSFORM TRAIN DEPOT INTO NEW POLICE HEADQUARTERS

Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick announced today the City of Detroit has reached an agreement in principle with CenTra Inc. to purchase the Michigan Central Depot and redevelop it into the new headquarters of the Detroit Police Department.

The project, estimated between $100-$130 million, would provide Detroit Police with approximately 300,000 square feet for its headquarters, a parking garage, public meeting rooms, and retail space. An additional 200,000 square feet could be available for other law enforcement-related tenants.

"If we are to truly transform our Police Department, we must give them a first-class, state-of-the-art headquarters," said Mayor Kilpatrick. "This deal can make that happen - and it will breathe new economic life into southwest Detroit."

City of Detroit Chief Development Officer Walt Watkins said months of consultation with experts in construction, redevelopment, and finance all pointed to a transformed depot as the best home for Detroit police.

"Redeveloping this building will cost the same, if not less than building a new headquarters from the ground up," said Watkins. "The financial reality, combined with the huge economic boost to the area, makes this ideal."

Built in 1913 and vacated in 1988, the Michigan Central Depot fell into disrepair years ago, blighting the Detroit skyline.

"This project is vital to growing Detroit and this building can stand once again as a beacon of hope and progress for our City," said Mayor Kilpatrick.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7342
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 205.158.96.140
Posted on Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 11:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who owned the Train Station and who owns TS. Different animals.
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Harpernottingham
Member
Username: Harpernottingham

Post Number: 52
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.62.21.54
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 2:04 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Point well taken.

Dang ...

Maybe Monaghan should've sold the Tigers to Matty Maroun.

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