Discuss Detroit » Archives - Beginning January 2006 » 2 Possible sites named for Quicken HQ « Previous Next »
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 454
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.176.190
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 4:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2006 0508/SUB/60506001/1033

One site is above the Premier Garage on the site of the former J.L. Hudson’s store. The Premier is an underground parking structure with footings set for construction of a high-rise building.

The other is on Grand Circus Park, between Washington Boulevard and Bagley Street, site of the former Statler Hilton Hotel, which was razed last year.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3671
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.87
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 6:22 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Looks like they finally confirmed it. DetroitYes seems to have known for quite some time these were the only two sites being looked at.
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 798
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 136.1.1.101
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 9:10 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll /article?AID=2006605080399

At the end of the article...

"Quicken has already outgrown its leased Livonia headquarters space and Gilbert has acknowledged that a search for a new headquarters site is under way. He has been wooed by downtown Detroit, Cleveland and plenty of other locations, but so far has kept mum on his preference if he has one.

A decision is probably 90 days away, he told me Sunday."

Looks like we'll know pretty soon.
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Genesyxx
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Username: Genesyxx

Post Number: 505
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 209.69.165.10
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YEY!!! I say go for the Premier site, but wasn't there supposed to be condo's there?
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Ron
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Username: Ron

Post Number: 101
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 70.212.30.86
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 9:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It appears promising that the Cleveland-area development people apparently haven't had discussions re: a move there.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 619
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:01 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My money is on the statler site.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1760
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to kill everyone’s excitement but the city has offered the site to Rock. There is no guarantee that they will accept it and move to Detroit. This really isn’t news, allot of cities in the state will make a run at Rock.
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 27
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 65.42.16.138
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the Statler site would be more beneficial for downtown. It would spur a wildfire of development west of Woodward.

I think Residential would work better on the Hudsons site, as it would create a neighborhood of sorts on woodward between Campus Martius and Grand Circus Parks, with the many lofts already there.
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Sharmaal
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Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 799
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 136.1.1.101
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:09 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No excitement here. Just stating the fact that out of Dan's mouth, we'll likely know one way or another in the next 90.

I still have some questions about the company itself. We'll see how it maintains in the new housing market. Seems like they are projecting growth, but I see them shrinking.
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 811
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:19 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I vote Statler.

Let's keep the steel girders of the Hudson's site as a memorial to that beautiful and not-forgotten building.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1761
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For the preservationist on the site if Rock moves to the Statler site the odds are the UA gets demoed for a nice parking structure. Could you live with this trade off?
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Bobj
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Username: Bobj

Post Number: 703
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.221.183.220
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They will have lots of options over and above the Downtown sites.

My personal hope is that they take the Statler site. GCP needs help with empty lots and/or buildings that abound there. It would also help Bagley and Washington Blvd to get stuff going. A parking garage also added would not be pleasant, but unfortunately with Detroit's lack of mass transit, a necessary evil.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 620
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:11 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live with the niave thought that if, and this is a huge if, Rock moves to the Statler sight, the company will restore the UA for homes and a in-company theater for presentations/performances. I know it's a fantasy, but just let me dream about it for now.

I think the Statler sight is the front runner right now. However, that hypothesis is just based on stuff I have read in local media. Front-runner status is the best place to be in right now, but I have to keep reminding myself that it is still a long way from a done deal.

Now, I could see the following dominoes falling if Rock were to move to the Statler. Something being done with the David Whitney building and the two buildings across the street from Cliff Bells on Park. Also, if the Book Cadillac goes forward there, too, watch Washington Blvd. take off. Yeah, I know I am playing Captian Obvious here, but it's nice to dream, especially on a Monday when I should be working.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 455
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.176.190
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In response to the comment above...

"Not to kill everyone’s excitement but the city has offered the site to Rock."

Quicken is the parent company to Rock Financial.. so one in the same
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Drdetroit
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Username: Drdetroit

Post Number: 77
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.79.103.130
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobj - Mass transit is coming real soon. Possibly with construction of both projects going on at the same time.
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Spidergirl
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Username: Spidergirl

Post Number: 204
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 63.77.247.130
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Vizion, I think what Merch was getting at is that this is just an offer, and other cities will also make offers to Rock Financial/Quicken Loans.

There's no guarantee they will go with Detroit.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 621
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:18 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Drdetroit: People have on occassion said mass transit is coming soon. And every time the plans have died. Although, I believe the metro area has its best chance in a long time of getting a real mass transit system, it's far from a done deal. This is Detroit after all. We have been known to invent new ways to screw up great ideas.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 87
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:29 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why not move them into the Whitney, and have a structure on the site of the Statler? This way you get Woodward exposure, breathe life into a historic structure (that has people mover access), and develop the Statler Block all at once. You could make this work, and have it so some divisions are in the parking building, and it is almost entirely hidden within the building itself (like it is in the Fisher and First National, both ahve garages, but to the untrained eye you'd never know it.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 258
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:38 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

does the Whitney have the square footage that Rock needs?
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Rrl
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Username: Rrl

Post Number: 476
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 71.213.228.212
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:39 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

D-planner:
While a good idea, the D.Whitney building isn't large enough for 3,500 people. The best that can be hoped for is if the Statler site is chosen (which I believe it will be), that it will provide spin off demand for the Whitney.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7351
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

does the Whitney have the square footage that Rock needs?




Or the type of footprint that would be conducive to their business.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 88
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:55 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Square feet or desired plates?

I doubted it, thats why I am proposing office space in two buildings so the second can be tailored to fit their needs, and Rock gets a signature building designed by Daniel Burnham with direct access to thousands of downtown employees to sell mortagages or other financial services to.

This way they can design the new building for employee cefeterias, work out facilties, childcare, large conference rooms, mailing, and other services that would not be suited for the DWB.
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Zelda
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Username: Zelda

Post Number: 28
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 68.60.121.124
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regarding the Hudsons sight...

Did they ever resolve that issue with flooding (or something like that) on the lower levels of the Premier Garage?
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Border5150
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Username: Border5150

Post Number: 146
Registered: 03-2004
Posted From: 207.232.204.254
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like to see them at the Old Statler site. Grand Circus Park needs that kind of development. It would be cool to see new development there like there is surrounding Campus Martius Park.

That, and it would be cool to see from Comerica Park too...

(Message edited by border5150 on May 08, 2006)
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 714
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.136.150.79
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 1:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't understand everyone's excitement over the statler site. That CLEARLY would be better for residential properties. The Hudson's site is PERFECT for a large corporation. That gets my vote HANDS DOWN!
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 28
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 35.8.144.6
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 2:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about the Monroe Block? Is parking the reason this would not be a viable option?
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 457
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.42.23.2
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 2:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used to work @ Rock and based on that I feel they need lots wide open floor plans to ease the flow of trafficthat goes on in house.

The Livonia Quicken HQ was spread out, but the logisitics sucked. At Rock in Farmington the layout was decent but the logistics sucked as well there. There needs to be a lot of employee parking as well as customer parking. There is a lot of customer traffic that comes in and out of the Livonia building.

I wonder whenever they move, will Dan Gilbert move his two other companies.. Camelot Ventures and Title Source.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1129
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.2.1.103
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 2:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just curious as to why you think the Hudson's site is that much better, Quinn. To me, it's probably a toss-up... either one would be great. They would both expand the edges of vitality downtown. I'd say they're both preferable to the Monroe Block, since the Campus Martius area is already doing fairly well.
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Detroitkev
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Username: Detroitkev

Post Number: 71
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 70.91.120.106
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 2:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Taking the Hudsons site will provide critical mass of density that is needed to expand the restaurant/retail options in the Campus Martius area...However, a move to the Statler site may increase entertainment options in the Foxtown area, since Illitch is doing little with his properties.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 57
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.40.50.194
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 2:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You all should be consultants.

I vote for the Statler site. The Premier Parking spot looks like the perfect place for a 50+ story structure, but I doubt that Quicken is looking to go that big.
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 458
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 65.42.23.2
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 2:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitkev...

How will it increase entertainment options? Just wondering
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Detroiternthemist
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Username: Detroiternthemist

Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 64.118.149.50
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Either area would be a positive in my book because you'd have 3000 - 5000 more people working downtown and possibly moving there. Also another major company moving their HQ in the city would add for more ammo in recruiting other companies.
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Detroitkev
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Username: Detroitkev

Post Number: 72
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 70.91.120.106
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A brand new building with 50,000 square feet of possible new retail would be perfect for new restaurants & bars considering the proximity to the stadiums, and theatres. Also, I'm sure Dan Gilbert would try to lure some big names by offering generous leases to the first few tenants (much like Karmanos did with Borders & Hard Rock). We need to make the entire CBD a walkable entertainment & shopping district. Connecting The Foxtown area with the Book Cadillac with Campus Martius, with the Riverfront, with Greektown, with Harmonie Park, with the with the Stadiums is critical.
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Detroitkev
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Username: Detroitkev

Post Number: 73
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 70.91.120.106
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I love when everyone talks about building 50 story hi-rises with no regard for parking...a 50 story hi-rise on the hudsons site would require the demolition of most of woodward for parking garages. Until we get mass transit, I don't see too many buildings that tall being built.
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 69.212.194.39
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Husdon's site/garage can only hold around 20 stories I believe, someone pleae correct me if I am wrong.......although, as much as I would like to see it at the statler, 20 stories sounds about right.
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 622
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A maximum of 14 to 15 stories can be built on the Hudson's block because of footings. Any taller and they would have to redo the footings and garage at a great cost. The Statler block gives Rock more options on what type of building it can build and is right on the People Mover line. I believe Gilbert could build as tall as he wants to, but will still probably keep it under 20 stories, on Statler and has the option of jumping Bagley Street to build on the UA block. The Hudson's site is pretty confined. Plus, Statler site lets his company be the big boy on his block overlooking his own big park, while the Hudson block means he would have to be in Compuware's shadow. Also, building on Statler will allow Gilbert, a sports nut, to be within sight of the Tigers and Lions stadiums and a quick People Mover ride away from the Joe. I really think the Statler sight is in the lead because it gives Rock more options. The Monroe block is out of the question right now because the city has it slated for residential I think and wants to wait on developing it until the property is worth enough to warrant building a large parking garage underneath it.

(Message edited by E_hemingway on May 08, 2006)
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 623
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if an ESPN Zone opened up in the ground floor of a Rock HQ.
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Nellonfury
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Username: Nellonfury

Post Number: 146
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 68.43.156.135
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mostly the HQ will be at the old Hudson's Site.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1484
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.221.33.13
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The CMP area is doing well, but I'd sure like to see that empty spot on Woodward occupied. Now, if they choose it and then build something like One Kennedy, then we'll regret it...there is an upside to waiting on the Hudson's block, in that we can save it for a really big project with some groundbreaking and distinctive. However, Rock is one big company and they may be the ones to build something big on that site. There is no way that, with many thousands of workers, all of Merchant's Row couldn't be completely rented, with new stores and restaurants in every available space. The Hudson's block is 2 short blocks from GCP, so there would be a rub off in that direction.

I wouldn't object to them building on the Statler site, but I too would like to see residential development there. Also, it seems a little less integrated with the new attractions down around CMP. On the other hand, Washington Blvd. might improve. Business travelers who work with Quicken would be quite inclined to stay at the new B-C. It's really a tough call.

From a logistics standpoint, they'll probably go with the Statler, because it is so close to the exit on Bagley off the Lodge, and they'll be able to building parking spots easier.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7356
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Plus, Statler site lets his company be the big boy on his block overlooking his own big park, while the Hudson block means he would have to be in Compuware's shadow.




It is a mortgage/refinancing business. The closer you are to more large, decent paying tenants the better. GM, EDS, Compuware, etc should be closer so people could do their loan business at lunch or in a convenient manner.

Just my opinion on the business benefit. I don't care where they are as long as they locate in Detroit.
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Nellonfury
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Username: Nellonfury

Post Number: 147
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 68.43.156.135
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1953:"Let's keep the steel girders of the Hudson's site as a memorial to that beautiful and not-forgotten building".

Dude, we all miss the old Hudson's building but something NEEDS to be right there.Getting sick at looking that gap!!! The steel girders are not there for nothing.If the company looks at the site, they can start sitting up more steel girders and start working on it.
Old Statler site can be a loft or hotel and Monroe Block can be an future office building.
If the HQ will be at the old Hudson's site, that will make the Campus Martius site more exciting!!!
Think about it!!!
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Thnk2mch
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Username: Thnk2mch

Post Number: 154
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 67.38.87.62
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 3:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't tell my Livonia neighbors, but I think the benefits for not only Detroit, but the region, far out weighs the benefit of staying in Livonia for Rock/Quicken.

Reason #101
Quote:
"Also, I wouldn't be surprised if an ESPN Zone opened up in the ground floor of a Rock HQ.'


I would bet Statler site.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2060
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.150.85
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with those in favor of the Statler site. It allows for a more creative use of the block. Plus I would love to see them add a 14th People Mover stop on Bagley, one of the major streets downtown that has the People Mover going thru it, but not stopping there. I think that underground parking on the Statler site would be great, and allow some other redevelopment uses for the Tuller/UA block (involving the UA Building).

Another reason why the Statler site should be developed before the Hudson site is this.... pretty much all the blocks touching the Hudson site either are being redeveloped, or have been redeveloped. And pretty much all the blocks touching the Statler site have NOT been redeveloped. More bang for the buck (spinoff development potential) on the Statler site.

(Message edited by Gistok on May 08, 2006)
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Burnsie
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Username: Burnsie

Post Number: 408
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 35.12.21.212
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 4:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

1953-- Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as if you're under the impression that the steel work at the Hudson's site is from the Hudson's building. The only things from the Hudson's building left at that site are the foundation walls.

BTW, "girder" refers to a horizontal structural element, not vertical.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1461
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 4:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An ESPN Zone at the Statler site? How do you figure? Anyone that knows anything already knows that a Chuck E Cheese will open on the ground floor of the new 50 story Rock Financial HQ at the Statler site. The building will incorporate brick from the Statler-Hilton both as a memorial and to serve as a tourist attraction to help bring suburbanites downtown.

Sorry. Feeling snarky today, especially in light of the "Danny-ism" that seems to have taken over this thread.
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1596
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.250.205.35
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yeah, just what the city needs, another PM stop.

You can walk the PM route faster than you can ride it. It's crazy. How about people walk one block instead?
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 443
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 6:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think of the two the Hudson's would be better. As much improvement as we've seen on Woodward it's not as if every building is occupied. You'd create a critical mass and the kind of vibrancy that we've only dreamed about. The improvements would easily spread to Capitol Park and Washington Blvd given it's central location.

That said I see them picking the Statler site since it's the more flexible of the two. But as long as they move downtown I'll be happy.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 715
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.136.150.79
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dougw...I'll be thrilled with anyplace they build in Detroit. I really feel the Hudson's site with it's proximity to other office buildings would be better. Statler is more residential...those buildings around there are lofts, etc. Yes I know there are lofts across from the hudsons...it's also closer to other office buildings.

After reading some of the posts here I am really disapointed that it cant be any higher than 15 stories. Are we sure that is correct? I was hoping for a 20+ tower (with a setback at the 13-14 story height so it fits with other Woodward buildings).

Having said that...why is the Monroe block not up for this? It could be as tall as they wanted and Dan Gilbert would have a "foothold" on the park...'twould be AWESOME.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.65.66
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 7:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redico has been given the rights to Hudsons and will release a development plan by a June 30 deadline. So we wont be "waiting" much longer for a Hudsons development (as mentioned before). However, considering the vision of CMP, Hudsons would be MUCH better as hotel/residential/entertainmen t. I think Statler would be a better idea, also the flexability is a plus for Rock. Additionally, considering Redico's timeline we will see some developments @ Hudsons while Rock's deal is being hammered out
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Viziondetroit
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Username: Viziondetroit

Post Number: 461
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.42.176.190
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 7:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We are too obsessed with height... we don't need another scraper until we have the demand for it. Like we keep saying, there are over 5 million square feet of UNUSED office space in Detroit that needs to be delt with FIRST.
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Mike
Member
Username: Mike

Post Number: 599
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.109.36
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 7:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the problem with moving to detroit is that thier employees will have to pay detroit city taxes. i wonder how many employers take that into consideration as they do not want to loose their employees
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2638
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.98
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike, I think the EMPLOYEES will rather have Quicken Loans stay in Michigan rather than move to Cleveland. If they move to Ohio, they won't have a job at all.
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Mike
Member
Username: Mike

Post Number: 600
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.41.109.36
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 7:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

true. but i am sure there are some detroit suburbs in this mix as well, livonia will not want to lose this major company to detroit or anyone
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Apbest
Member
Username: Apbest

Post Number: 26
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.65.66
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

@ Mike...hence the tax breaks we're offering to lure him in.

@ Vizion..no one is nessecarily suggesting a tall building, one that is more sensible within its urban placement
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Oliverdouglas
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Username: Oliverdouglas

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.209.181.108
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 8:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Campus Martius development has been for many years a low/mid-rise plan. Bigger ism't always better. A lower, more human scale is appropriate for CMP - also lets the light in. See Wasington DC.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3672
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.74
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 8:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but someone on the inside has said that the plan for the Statler site includes parking along with the office building meaning nothing would have to be torn down. It's also hopped that the Whitney will be used as residential space for a kind of live/work concept for the whole thing. This all comes from ManageMich a forumer at skyscrapercity.com in the Detroit Development thread.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2062
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.24.194
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 8:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DH4H, I mentioned the PM stop as a possibility... from Bagley/Clifford it is 2 BLOCKS to either the GCP or Times Sq. Stations (remember Washington Blvd. is very wide, probably 1/2 block wide).

The PM goes thru the Statler block at a corner angle very reminiscent of the way that it does thru the Millender Center. If I were Quicken, I don't know that I would like the PM wrapping around my building on 3 sides and not have a PM stop right there.

And having a PM stop at Bagley & Clifford could help with other developments along that forlorn stretch of Bagley.
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Eric
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Username: Eric

Post Number: 444
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 35.11.210.161
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Give me break it's not like there isn't a station across the street. You could walk from Grand Circus faster than waiting for the next station

Why would Quicken care anyway if anything being across the street from a PM station should be a plus?
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Drdetroit
Member
Username: Drdetroit

Post Number: 78
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.79.103.130
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quicken and compuware could also share the cadillac pm station if they build @ hudsons site.
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Mind_field
Member
Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 553
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.240.205.61
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 10:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think there are advantages to both sites. Does anyone know if the Statler site has the same tax benefits as the Hudson's site?

If Rock moved to the Hudson's site, it would be a tremendous incentive for retailers as the concentration of office workers in a few block area would exceed 10,000. It would also be an incentive to build a trolley line on Woodward travelling up to midtown and maybe new center. At the same time saving the Hudson's site for a luxury condo tower or other mixed use building makes sense since it is probably an easier sell and more in the heart of the action.

The statler site has it's benefits too. Revitalizing Washington Blvd and GCP can only help downtown and spreading vibrancy around downtown will do more good than a few concentrated nodes of vibrancy.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 89
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mind,

You have a valid point about benefits of clustering the jobs together. However, why would the Hudson site have more appeal for transit ridership on Woodward? The Statler is only 200-300 feet from Woodward.

In terms of DPM, I would never add a station. The system takes long enough to make the circut as it is. Most of the Stations are located in places with either high pedestrian movements (Cobo Ren Cen, Millender are examples) or tied into regional and city bus lines.

The longer you make it to get people around, the less ridership you will have. This is one of the advantages that BRT or Light Rail would have over a regular bus.

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on May 08, 2006)
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3675
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.74
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

200-300 feet versus 0 feet is a big difference when talking a trolley.
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Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 689
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.209.178.184
Posted on Monday, May 08, 2006 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can hardly stand the suspense... I hope they do it.
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Detroitplanner
Member
Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 92
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"200-300 feet versus 0 feet is a big difference when talking a trolley."

--- and people wonder why we are one of the fattest cities in the nation? Give me a break.

My sister take a commuter rain to her job in Chicago, she walks a half mile from the station to her office. I guess I should tell her she should drive instead as thats too far to walk?
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Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 149
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:33 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone's talking about how a People Mover stop would be such an advantage...do people even use the People Mover for commuting purposes? When I worked downtown, I didn't know anyone that did. Especially if they build an on-site parking garage for employees, why would anyone use the people mover? Just to make it more inconvenient for themselves?

The people mover is neat. It is NOT functional commuter transit.
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Oliverdouglas
Member
Username: Oliverdouglas

Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.209.181.108
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:47 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No, it isn't commuter transit, but it could be functional if CBD development continues apace. Particularly during winter months or otherwise inclement weather, a way to get to lunch, shopping, happy-hour after work - even a way to get home if you live downtown. Maybe not yet, but it's there when the time comes.
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Dmb
Member
Username: Dmb

Post Number: 185
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.88.86.3
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:54 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that either spot would be wonderful and a great addition to the city. However to everyone pushing for the Statler site this is a warning, the development of the Statler site for Quicken will mean the end of the UA building. Do you really think that 6,000 mostly sub-urban workers are going to be moved into a hundred-million dollar state of the art facility with almost direct views into two (Whitney Building as well) of the largest abandoned buildings downtown. Now it could be argued that the UA building is a goner anyway with the addition of 3000 casino theater seats into the market over the next few years. This would also give Mike Illich a legitmate excuse to finally tear it down as he could argue that its demise is helping the city in attracting Quicken.
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 624
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:57 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My girlfriend uses the PM to commute all the time. She leaves her apartment in the millender and takes it to the Michigan stop where her job is located. On nice days she walks across downtown, but during incliment weather or during the winter she rides the PM four times a day: To work, back home for lunch, back to work after lunch and then back home. Even though I work from home, I take it to the other side of downtown whenever I have meetings with my supervisors. We always take it to get to bars or to get back home, a lot during the winter. Yes it is useful, but not nearly as useful as trolley lines up woodward or any of the other spokes.
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 625
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 11:59 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would hurt, but I would be OK with sacrificing the Statler and UA for a new Rock HQ downtown.
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3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 239
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.212.214.147
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 3:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Every time I have driven past the S-H site during the last month or so contractors are working feverishly building what appears to be a park. They are hauling in much dirt and balancing the land. New sidewalks have been constructed on the Bagley side of the site and are now being constructed on the Washington Blvd side, with, it appears, permantly constructed planters. Of more interest is the fact that they have created curb cuts on Bagley and Washington Blvd. as if they are going to put a driveway/alley across the middle of the site. VERY expensive undertaking - I'll bet it's costing at least $150,000 for the work they're doing so far - so I hope the right hand knows what the left hand is doing. Everything they've done so far would have to be torn out, or would be destroyed, by the construction of a significant sized development on the site. I can't believe this Rock Financial offer just came up at the last minute; it appears the decision has been made to go with the Hudson site with the expectation that the the current improvments to the S-H site are intended to be there for a long time. Very mysterious.
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Dag
Member
Username: Dag

Post Number: 212
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.188.238.215
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 3:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3WC, landscaped parking does not come cheap.

Of course, this may just be one of the forerunners in the lawn and garden shed district.
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 628
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 3:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a pict of the site taken from last week.

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Drdetroit
Member
Username: Drdetroit

Post Number: 85
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.79.103.130
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very good debate and, up to the second info & data on this thread. What an excellent resourse @ DetroitYes.com
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2066
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.65
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was not talking about putting a PM stop on the Statler site on GCP a block over from the David Whitney Building stop. That would be dumb.

I probably should have explained it better. What I proposed is to put it at Bagley and Clifford. Thats 2 blocks away. And not just for a Quicken building. It would benefit the Michigan Building, the UA/Tuller site, and..... would promote the best location for a new hockey arena... north of Adams between Park and Cass.

That would involve only a 1 block walk between the "new" PM Station and the new hockey barn, something that would promote downtown restaurants before and after a hockey game. One of the criteria for a new hockey barn is that it should be near a PM station. Otherwise it will not help downtown business as much as hockey at JLA does.

I realize that this idea is a stretch. :-)
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1463
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Um, 2 blocks isn't exactly far to walk.
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Upinottawa
Member
Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 353
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For those who want a new DPM stop, is there another stop that you would close?

I guess if a new arena went downtown and the JLA was imploded, the JLA stop could be eliminated.
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Nellonfury
Member
Username: Nellonfury

Post Number: 148
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 68.43.156.135
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HUDSON SITE!!!! HUDSON SITE!!!! HUDSON SITE!!!!
I see most of you "Premier site" fans are dying to see the HQ there. What about the Hudson's?
The site is empty for a few years now and It's IS time for something needs to be there!! One of the reasons I didn't choose the premier site is because some buildings on the Bagley area are vacant and needs to be fix up.To me the job will be quicker at the Hudson site since the steel girders already in place, underground parking,the Woodward Streetescape is beautiful and new businesses are in the area.If I was the company, I'll take a GOOD look around both areas before choosing. 100% it'll be the Hudsons.
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Tkelly1986
Member
Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 62
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 69.212.194.39
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is it feasible that there could be 2 buildings on the Hudsons site? A Rock HQ and a condo/hotel mix ect.. tower? I think the Footprint it big enough and would actually look rather stupid if they spread it out the whole way and just build one 10 story buiding.
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1798
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Premier site is the Hudson's site. The garage on the Hudson's site is called the Premier garage. The site on Washington is the Statler site.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2070
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.65
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Upinottawa, I think that a lot of well-to-do residents of the 3 Riverfront West appartment towers would protest the elimination of the JLA PM station. They have a restricted access catwalk over to the JLA PM station.
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 630
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I could see them moving the Grand Circus PM station a block over to the Statler site if they built the Rock HQ there. They won't elmiminate the Joe Lious station because it connects the Riverfront Towers to not only the PM but also to downtown. They could eliminate the Bricktown, Times Square and Fort/Cass stations and no one would miss them.
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Apbest
Member
Username: Apbest

Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.65.66
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Times Square are is the destination of the Rosa Parks transit center. So in the scheme of a greater future metro transit system...Times Square will be important
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 634
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Michigan Station could also be used for the Rosa Parks Transit Center. I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to eliminate one in favor of the other while building the transit center. It would make a lot of sense to eliminate the Times Square station, move the Michigan Station to the other side of Michigan. That way it would be able to connect to the transit center and be close to any proposed Detroit to Ann Arbor mass transit line, if that happens.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2073
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.65
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

E_hemingway.... close the Time Square Station.... gulp..... it has my favorite PM artwork! And the Michigan Station has my least favorite. You know where I stand... :-)
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1804
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

E_hemmingway, you do know the People mover operation and maintenance center is in the times Square station don't you? That would be the last station they ever close.
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Apbest
Member
Username: Apbest

Post Number: 34
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.65.66
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not to mention, it isnt exactly easy to just "pick up" a station and move it across the street. Expensive rennovations just went into the PM stations
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 635
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:35 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, I know. But I like to dream they would move that station to the other side of the center, thus eliminating the need for the Michigan station. However, the reality is that it will never happen.
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Sharmaal
Member
Username: Sharmaal

Post Number: 801
Registered: 09-2004
Posted From: 136.1.1.101
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 5:37 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Enough with all this talk about adding and moving stations. Something tells me they are done with all that. I just don't see it being done. Also, it's effing retarded to add any stops, all the current ones are a block away from each other, if people can't make that hike...


I love the discussions on this site, but sometimes this pie in the sky crap...
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 636
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 6:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only one I could possibly see happening is moving the Grand Circus station over a block if Rock puts it HQ there. Millions of dollars have been set aside to modernize that station. I don't think that money has been used yet, although I'm not 100 percent on that. I could definitely see the city telling Dan Gilbert that it will gladly move that station from infront of a vacant building to a new corporate HQ a block over as part of a development package. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't just leave the GC station and add yet another station on Bagley where the UA is for Rock. However, I would be shocked if Rock built on the Statler site and didn't get a new people mover station with it.
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Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 959
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They are building a new station that is handicap accessable without being connected to the Whitney Building. They could very easily move building the station over to where a potential Quicken Loans building would be. I have noticed that most Tiger fans use the Broadway station anyways.
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 637
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 6:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The most redundant station has to be Bricktown. They could blow that one up and nobody would notice.
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Danindc
Member
Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1464
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Aren't there better things on which to spend money than moving DPM stations by a block???
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E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 638
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 6:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course. But this is Detroit.
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Bob
Member
Username: Bob

Post Number: 961
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The money for this I believe is coming from the state via the feds and could not be used for anything else. Having a station that is not ADA accessable when the rest of the system is probably why it is getting fixed. And since it is being moved, it would be possible to tie it into a deal with Quicken. Why not since it is already being moved/rebuilt.
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Rrl
Member
Username: Rrl

Post Number: 479
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 71.213.228.212
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 7:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please, enough w/ the people mover bull-schitt; it WON'T be modified, so stop already!
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3680
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.223.78
Posted on Tuesday, May 09, 2006 - 9:17 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Even if it is, in concerns to development, this is a pretty trivial subject.
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Trufan
Member
Username: Trufan

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 138.28.201.200
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:06 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The reason the monroe block isn't being talked about, is because it is currently making money as a parking lot, and i believe it is not city owned. There are good reasons for either spot, but i agree that any large corporation moving to detroit should improve the city. I think Statler will be the choice, because it has better frontage. There isn't a much better lot in all of detroit for views of a building. The people mover doesn't need any more stops, plus the current GCP station will be an important transfer station if we ever get woodward light rail, as it is the only station on woodward.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3681
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.223.78
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:23 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How does the Statler site have a better frontage? What could be better than frontage along Woodward Avenue, and a rather large frontage at that just steps away from C-Mart Park? Both sites are great, but I don't think that the Statler site has a better frontage. At the moment, the site is in a slightly more quite corner of downtown. Maybe that will change once MGM is finished and the new Wings arena is built around the area, but at the current time, Woodward is where it's at. Actually, Woodward has always been "where it's at," as it is the city's mainstreet.
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Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1805
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 11:50 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the Hudson site is the cities preferred site. It looks like it would be much cheaper to do than the Statler. Why?

The Statler site is smaller and will require more than 10 levels of parking above grade. Premier will require five levels of parking above grade.

Its awkward triangular layout requires significantly higher build costs through lost efficiencies.

City does not own whole site, will require buyout of Peironi at quite likely a very high extortionist price.

Pylons and supports for DPM intrude into the basement area of the Statler site, making for very tricky demo and construction issues related to vibration.

Any inclusion of the Olympia owned sites (Tuller / UA) will require purchasing the sites from Olympia at a price that makes Olympia happy.

Statler has, by far, some the best views sheds for new build condos / apartments. Much better than the Premier site, making Statler much better suited to residential and Premier for office.
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Quinn
Member
Username: Quinn

Post Number: 717
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:16 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree Ndavies and tried to articulate that earlier (failing miserably)

Can you tell me...is it true that the current support columns in the premier garage (hudsons site) can only hold up a building 15 stories tall? I think that with 5 stories being set aside for parking, that 10 is NOT enough space for Quicken. They are growing leaps and bounds and I'm sure would not see that as enough space.

I heard somewhere else on this site they want condos, hotel and shopping in the building as well.
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1465
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Premier will require five levels of parking above grade.




Even with the below-grade parking? Yikes! I have to think it would be a lot cheaper (and thus easier) to redevelop if so much parking wasn't a necessity (That's a not-so-subtle hint to build public transit!). I mean, you're asking someone to pay for expensive non-revenue-generating construction.

From what I understand, the columns and footings at the Premier Garage can support about a 16-story structure. Skulker gave this info previously. I did back-of-the-envelope calcs at one point, and figured a 14-story office building could be supported.

Keep in mind, though, that one level of parking is not the same as one level of office space. It's not an even trade-off, because parking has a lower live load. Essentially, 8 levels of parking has the same loading as 5 levels of office.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 718
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How many parking spaces are at the premier garage now do we know?
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 719
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Answered my own question (answer: not very many): Premier Underground Garage
1206-8 Woodward Avenue
(Entrance on Grand River, or Gratiot)

Hours:
Parking Available 24 hours

Monthly Rate: $150.00
Maximum Daily Rate: $10.00
Spaces: 1,023
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 720
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Compuware has twice the space...I imagine this number would not even suit Quicken (I think they have 3000 employees right now)
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1466
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So how is 1000+ parking spots not a lot?
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1806
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not a lot when you actually need 3500.
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 40
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:33 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

couldn't they build a couple more stories of parking ontop of the current site? I'm just all about this, because from what i've read, some of the bussinesses around that area are only JUST making it... a boost of 3000 more employees a day would REALLY help out... plus some of these people would live in merchants row...
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 642
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It also must be taken into account that IF Rock decides to move to downtown in the next few months that it will be YEARS before the new HQ is up and running. Rock would still need to design the new building, secure whatever property it needs for the project, get it approved by the city, put the project out to bid, actually build it, have it made ready for the new employees and then actually move them all in. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 2010 by the time all of that actually happened. By then, Merchants Row, Lofts@Woodward and Kales will already have or be in the process of turning condo. I also have a feeling that downtown will look as different in 2010 compared to now as it does today compared to 2000. Rock moving downtown will be more of an longterm aide to downtown than an immediate help.

(Message edited by E_hemingway on May 10, 2006)
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Quinn
Member
Username: Quinn

Post Number: 721
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Their current lease runs out in 2009 so they are targeting that year to be all set.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1494
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.10.150
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 2:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think Quicken can hope to provide parking for every single employee. Some of them will have to be left to participate in the downtown parking market at large. They can get passes to GCP underground, the new structure above CVS, etc. More employers downtown means a couple things. 1) at the very least, more participants in the parking market will cause us to build UP or DOWN more; that means fewer surface lots scattered around downtown (especially on the SE and NW sides where they are so prevalent), with structures or undergroud garages instead. 2) People will carpool, or there will be more people hollaring for rapid mass transit. 3) More people will live downtown or near downtown.

We know more and more people are living in and near downtown. With more people working downtown, only good things will happen; the only bad thing is downtown workers who have enjoyed relatively light traffic volumes for their commutes over the years might have to adjust.
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 555
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.240.205.61
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 3:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep downtown will become more congested and parking issues will start to arise, but what is the alternative? A ghost town. Big cities are supposed to be congested and expensive. Downtown Detroit hasn't been congested and bustling (outside of special events) since it's heyday.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2074
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.40
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 4:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To those of you who bemoan any discussions about moving/adding PM stations.... go bother the folks who want Mass Transit.... now there's an idea that'll never happen in this politically charged metro area. The odds are probably greater to add/move a PM station than it is to get light rail transit.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1499
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.10.150
Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 4:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With downtown becoming more congested (relatively), more people working there, and people's overall attitudes changing (at least those who work/live in the city), I think the issue of realy transit will come to a head. This will force real consideration of it.

I certainly hope it doesn't come down to DPM stops when they decide on a plot, but I can see the DPM being useful for workers who need/want to go from GCP to Greektown or the Ren Cen, or if they can't accomodate parking for all employees and some buy parking spots at the other end of downtown. As we have beat to death, though, the DPM covers largely walkable distances, and downtown businesses would rather have people walking around the CBD.

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