Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 De-Gentrification Previous Next
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1433
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.31
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

An interesting article on De-Gentrification from the Telegraph. I'd say East Detroit(Pointe), Roseville and Warren are already going down this path. I'm sure there are others that are on their way or about to join the de-gentrifyers.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/pro perty/main.jhtml?xml=/property /2006/05/06/pdegent06.xml&sShe et=/property/2006/05/06/ixptop 12.html
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Hamtramck_steve
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Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2940
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 136.181.195.17
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like the article said, there's nothing new to this phenomenon in America.

I wouldn't limit it to just those three 'burbs, either. Most of the inner-ring 'burbs recorded population declines in the last census. Back then, I predicted that unless state policies changed, in a generation those cities will be blighted like Detroit. The population loss is the canary in the coal mine.

Perhaps with the slow economy, the building in former corn fields will slow enough so that we'll all have another chance to have a discussion about whether we want to keep recreating "the city of tomorrow" and then discarding it for the next "city of tomorrow" or actually fix what we've got before building new.
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Missnmich
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Username: Missnmich

Post Number: 509
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.186.39.150
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To be de-gentrifying, according to this article, a place has to have gentrified in the first place. Eastpointe, Roseville, and Warren are just decaying ...
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Fury13
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Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1057
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's too bad to hear that about Eastpointe. The housing stock there in the neighborhoods is pretty solid, with many brick homes. Much better than Roseville in that respect and almost comparable to Ferndale. In fact, Eastpointe could BE the eastside version of Ferndale if the city fathers there would position and market the community properly (and aggressively).
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4107
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

De-gentrification happens mostly in western Europe. The London inner ring suburbs is the most de-gentricated area in the world. The in U.S. Gentrification in most American cities is going very strong. Low-income families are getting pushed out by gov, state and real estate developers. It's their way to slow down urban sprawl and most U.S. states are considering making laws to set up limits of ex-urban sprawl.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 655
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 2:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember reading during the 1970s that the WWII suburbs would be the slums of the early 21st Century. In addition, their lower population density would put a harder load on taxpayers when those local governments became bloated, unionized, and inefficient.

Well, neighborhoods with houses from 40 to 60 years in age can start to turn into slums, and even more rapidly if crime enters the picture. Detroit's inner ring suburbs are decades older than WWII vintage. No surprises there about degentrification.
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 650
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.248.80.250
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 2:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

easpointe destroyed its urban style buildings in its "downtown" but yes it could have and should have marketed its selve differently.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1503
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.2.9
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 3:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Detroit's inner ring suburbs are decades older than WWII vintage. No surprises there about degentrification."

Not really. The housing stock in most of the places we've been tossing around is by and large post WWII. Except for some of the Grosse Pointes, and some small, core portions of those other places, the housing is in that 40-60 year old category that you mentioned. The reason for the de-gentrification is because of the blandness of this sort of housing. Not too much to market. And when you're like Eastpointe and don't even have a downtown, good luck attracting fresh blood...

Now, the nieghborhoods that are a "couple decades older than WWII vintage" are the ones with more distinctive housing stocks, and they should have a less severe degentrification problem. Houses from the '20s tend to have more enduring quality.

With that said, we do live in a region where newness is coveted and so many people don't seem to see the goodness in old houses, and if they do then they're still willing to pass on it because it would require living in or near Detroit. These attitudes combined with the regional oversupply of housing thanks to sprawl is causing stagnation even in the nicest neighborhoods of Grosse Pointe, Ferndale, and Dearborn.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1812
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 3:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is just the continuing effects of sprawl. Why do people think the decay will stop at Detroit's borders? It will just jump over the the city lines and continue outward.

I have an acquaintance that just moved north from Shelby township because the wrong kind of people were moving in. Nothing has changed. The decay will continue unabated into the inner ring suburbs and beyond.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 657
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't forget the recessions and the Great Depression after WWI but before WWII. Much of that housing built then was in Lincoln Park, River Rouge, and Ecorse, for a few. Now some of those areas are being blighted.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1504
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.2.9
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 4:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would agree with that. The downriver example seems to work for that. I notice that some of the older neighborhoods along Southfield Rd. towards I-75 are holding together alright, although that is not much of a commercial strip anymore.

I suppose right along Gratiot in Eastpointe might illustrate your point, too. I would just avoid saying "old houses, thus degentrification." It's really the mid-century "efficiency ranch" type builds that are falling way out of style.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 280
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 5:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The two Levittowns are not located in areas with all of their eggs in one basket. Mackinaw--you have touched on something I have sensed--that as an outgrowth of our principal industry there is a regional perception that old=bad, new=good. I have heard people in this area refer to exisiting housing as "a used house". The most upwardly mobile do not want to live around blight, they want everything "nice", and this is driving the McMansion-expansion outward at an increasing pace. The few young professionals who do stay in the region grew up in a brand new suburban house their parents had built, or bought. Their education has afforded them the ability to have that starter castle, and their parents have probably followed them outward toward the elusive "nice". The people who buy the parent's (1955 three bedroom brick ranch) home are moving up into that neighborhood.
Perhaps they should receive a complimentary copy of "home ownership and lawn maintenance for dummies"
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Missnmich
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Username: Missnmich

Post Number: 510
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.186.39.150
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 5:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please read the article. A place can't de-gentrify until it has been gentrified in the first place! And things have to decline before they can be gentrified.

The inner ring suburbs are declining. If they are revitalized, then slip again, then they can be said to have de-gentrified.

Danny is right about degentrification being more common in Europe, where neighborhoods have had centuries to wax and wane ...
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 310
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 5:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Eastpointe could BE the eastside version of Ferndale if the city fathers there would position and market the community properly (and aggressively)."

To many rednecks man.

As for Gratiot in general I think the road is cursed. The whole stretch of gratiot from Woodward through Chesterfield is just really hit up. Even "prospurus" Hall Road's corner of Gratiot has a seedy Motel. It's a shame because Macomb County could use a Ferndale. With all the hippies in the south St. Clair Shores/Grosse Pointe Woods area something could work.
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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 178
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.148.60.142
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 9:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chris Hamnett, author of Unequal City: London in the Global Arena and a professor at King's College, says that de-gentrification can only occur in areas that have already been gentrified. "Of course, areas decline," he says. "For instance, Notting Hill was built for the middle-classes in the 19th century, but went down around the time of the war. I'd call this 'downward mobility', rather than 'de-gentrification'.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1506
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.2.9
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 9:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56packman, I share your insights.

It takes a certain type of person, with a certain perspective on history and culture, to appreciate a nice old house. These are the people that insist on living in Detroit's older neighborhoods, or who choose to raise children on the inner edge of suburbia so that they can have a traditional neighborhood (to this day the homes along the Detroit edge of Grosse Pointe Park, i.e., are as tidy as ever), and these are the people who come through in rehabbing these homes when neccesary.

Anyone who is blind to the sort of beauty that can be found in older neighborhoods is a victim of our throwaway society, or too overcome by their fear of the city.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4120
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.176
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Steelworker

Not just Eastpointe destroyed its own urban style buildings and its "downtown" But other inner ring suburbs as well.


Let me list the inner ring suburbs that is on the verge of becomming in which the wealty white homeowners called it " WHITE TRASH/ BLACK TRASH" ghettos:

Warren,

Garden City,

Clawson,

Lincoln Park,

Westland,

Inkster,

Allen Park,

Melvindale,

St. Clair Shores,

Roseville,

Clinton TWP,

Livonia,

Farmington,

Romulus,

Southgate,

River Rouge,

Dearborn Heights,

Hazel Park,

Madison Heights,

R.O. TWP.

Fraser,

Mt. Clemens,

Pleasant Ridge,

Huntington Woods,

Berkley,

Southfield,

Lathrup Village,

Center Line,

Wayne,

Taylor,

and Ecorse

These city suburban leaders have to know that their downtowns and mom and pop retailers stips are dissapearing to "BIG BOX STORES" And that have to find a way to attact more retail or let their suburbs die along with Detroit.

(Message edited by danny on May 12, 2006)
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4121
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.176
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chitaku,

The folks in Macomb Co. want to keep their suburbs clean, white, and bedroom size. Making the suburbs into a Hip Cool Ferndalesque to them is a BAD IDEAL! They think it's EVIL and cost more money and adding more ordinances just to keep up the cool look. What the suburbs in Macomb Co. and other Metro Detroit suburbs should do is bring back the mom and pop style. Like Downtown Wyandotte is doing. I've seen them do it. and it worked really good. Downtown Wyandotte is getting more mom and pop businesses then ever.
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2430
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:36 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

from the article:
De-gentrification

# Counterfeit sportswear being sold from a cardboard box in corner of previously gentrified pub as original clientele starts coming back in

# What bookshop? Five or more bookies

# York stone pavement pilfered during cable-laying works and sold on to pave residents' patios

# Shop window displays consist of star-shaped signs announcing a furious price war on a wide range of little-known lagers

# More than 10 nail bars in a 200m radius

# Local paper leads on "shootings" or "slayings" at least twice a week

# New fried-chicken outlet arrives - now one for every state of the Confederacy

# Men wrestling in the street

# Charity shops staffed by young offenders doing Community Service Orders
... translate that into american and it does seem kinda familiar ...
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1137
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 69.220.224.184
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the "one for every state of the confederacy" bit is hilarious.
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Thecarl
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Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 763
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 12:07 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

de-gentrification? poor folks invading upscale communities and buying expensive homes?

if this isn't a reason to shut down panhandling in greektown, i don't know what is.

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