Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Greektown Goons? Previous Next
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Drdetroit
Member
Username: Drdetroit

Post Number: 97
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 70.229.46.51
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do I have a right to ask someone for a quarter?

http://metrotimes.com/editoria l/story.asp?id=9190
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4111
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.229
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those folks in Greektown do have the constitutional right to move beggers out of their property in order to prevent losing customers. The Greektown Merchants Business Association had installed a tough security force to reduce the number of beggers and po-folks from their communities. Some of them ever go to the extremes to kick them out of their properties. The beggars can file their claims to the Coalition Against Police Brutality, but it would take a LONG TIME for the beggers and po'folks to establish their right to beg in Greektown. Not even the Detroit Police can't do nothing to keep the beggars and po'folks in Greektown properties.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2084
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.3.170
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After hearing a chilling story a few months back on this forum about a deranged panhandler following a man and his family and screaming at them near Greektown, I say that the security crew is justified (but not by being physically abusive).

There should be a constitutional right of freedom from harassment and intimidation, but there isn't. Rather than be rude against panhandlers whenever they approach me downtown, I start talking to them in German in a loud voice, as I brisquely walk away. That always throws them for a loop long enought for me to make my getaway.
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220hendrie1910
Member
Username: 220hendrie1910

Post Number: 22
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 20.137.2.50
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This reminds me a bit of the decision to disband the Iraqi army after toppling Saddam: Where did we expect them to end up?

It doesn't surprise me to hear that laid-off DPD cops doing private security are (a) using their training and manner to impersonate real officers and (b) happy to dispense street justice beyond what their old bosses would tolerate.

Watching out for rent-a-cops in Ottawa.
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Jt1
Member
Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7380
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about we distribute the homeless equally through metro Detroit? Why should it be so heavily weighted on Detroit. And I love this one:


quote:

Begging for food or money on the street was prohibited by Detroit city ordinance until 1998, when the ban was ruled unconstitutional, says police spokeswoman Stephens.




Was that another Engler favor for the city?
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Pistonian_revolution
Member
Username: Pistonian_revolution

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 69.136.139.115
Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 7:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i can't beleive that the metro times is advocating street begging. with all respect to human dignity, i would gladly ship all of the bums off to the east side slums if i were mayor. what kwame did for the superbowl-getting all of the bums off the street- i would do that every day.

i think that the concentration of soup kitchens and shelters in the cass corridor is bad for downtown detroit. does anyone know if most big cities have planning that puts services for the poor so close to the CBD?

begging bums is one of the things that suburban tourists notice the most when they come down to detroit. i applaud any effort to get bums out of the public eye.

at least bums in chicago do something constructive like handing out editions of The Onion.
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Reetz12
Member
Username: Reetz12

Post Number: 52
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.40.172.108
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 6:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep up the good work.

Also, do the "Goons" get rid of drunk kids from the suburbans acting like asses outside the bars?
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Gambling_man
Member
Username: Gambling_man

Post Number: 737
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 199.178.193.5
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 6:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reetz12, yes they do....in fact that is primarily what they do.......
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 118
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 68.166.44.44
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 6:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The mere fact that there is controversy over giving beggars the bums rush in Greektown is why Detroit has the problems it does.
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Lilpup
Member
Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1013
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 7:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And specifically what problems are those Rat?
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River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat

Post Number: 119
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 71.126.175.26
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where do you start when you look at the problems of Detroit? Crime, acceptance of unacceptable behavior (i.e. - begging), making excues for uncivil behavior, graffiti, all the petty crimes we ignore, not to mention a few hundred murders a year. How is that for a start? A beggars freedom to annoy me is an intrusion on my liberty and right to be unimpeeded in my acivities. .
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Gumby
Member
Username: Gumby

Post Number: 1161
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.60.143.186
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:18 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where is it written that we the right to be unimpeeded in our activities? Nowhere. We have to deal with people in our everyday lives. It is part of being a member of society. If you want to live unimpeeded become a hermit and live in a shack in the woods.
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Hamtramike
Member
Username: Hamtramike

Post Number: 459
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 4.229.90.224
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please move this discussion to the "justification" thread.

nevermind, wrong site.
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Apbest
Member
Username: Apbest

Post Number: 50
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.42.220.61
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

River_rat...so someone someone stopping you in the street and asking you a question impedes your liberty? or someone sitting on the side of the road with a cup impedes YOUR liberty?

thats a pretty bold satement. What about the natural rights of that individual to not starve and something to eat. Regardless of what any of us thing about people on the street, their actions of begging dont impede our liberty. It might be annoying and indicative of a bigger problem, but you can say no if you want
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Ron
Member
Username: Ron

Post Number: 120
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.79.229
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 3:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I am in a playful mood, I always ask them for a dollar when I see them approaching before they can ask me. That pretty much ends the discussion right there.

In all seriousness, the issue of homelessness is not unique to Detroit. Any major city has homeless. When I lived in DC, the homeless population there is very large, and I would often be asked for change going into the Borders books located on the corner of L and 18, if I'm not mistaken, which is not far from the White House.

Anywhere there is a large, dense population, you will be exposed to these types of societal ills. You simply cannot hide these problems in denser areas. I think of old Andy Griffith Show episodes, where the homeless were often out in the woods, by the lake, or whatever. That, even though it was fiction, is indicative of the issue of population density.

I hang out at Sweetwater Tavern quite frequently, and a number of us regulars have kind of adopted one of the homeless ladies in the area. We will buy her food, or give her a couple of dollars when we see her. She is very nice and never causes any trouble. She has nicknamed me "Mr. Policeman," despite the fact that I am not a police officer.

She has looked out for me when I was going to park on Monroe one evening down by 75 to go to dinner in G-Town. There are no-parking signs there, but everyone parks there in the evening after 6-7 o'clock. I happened to run into her when I was getting out of my car, and she told me that uniformed police officers were out giving tickets on that particular night.

So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, just because people are homeless does not make them less than human. Are they irritating sometimes? Yes. Can they be rude sometimes? Yes. But the same can be said for anyone, including many on this forum. And at least many homeless people have an excuse for being that way (mental illness, poverty, or whatever), many of us on this forum have no such excuse.

Rather than be irritated, disgusted, etc. by them, we should be thankful for what we do have when we see them.

"Thank you, Lord, for blessing me with an intellect, with a family who loves me, with friends who help me through hard times, with the ability and motivation to get up every morning to work hard and try to make the world a little bit better each day in my own small way. Thank you Lord for these BLESSINGS, as you did not have to bless ME with them."

Sorry, I don't mean to offend anyone with my own little prayer, but hey, the Spirit moved me.
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Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 716
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.177.56
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 3:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Ron. One of the most humane posts I've read here in a long time. Cheers!
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Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 801
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 67.38.8.227
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 4:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ron, youre right about many of the homeless, however there are many that are thieves and that are out to intimidate people into giving them change.

One specific homeless man that I have come to somehwat "know" is Robert, who "lives" in Grand Circus Park...Now I havent seen him since winter, so hopefully he is alright, but he was a pretty genuine human being it seemed. He never asks for money or chases people down with American flags saying he is a Veteran. I would give him a few dollars or a sandwich or whatever and just talk with him. With all of his porblems and difficulties, It seemed like the one thing that he needed and appreciated, was simply a friend.
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Gannon
Member
Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5775
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 70.236.198.22
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 4:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ron,

That sounds like 'Tonya'...the same homeless angel that looks out for folks on Beaubien Street around the corner from your hangout.


MCMayor,

You are right on the money...so many of the homeless that I've met don't get much in the way of simple acknowledgement, let alone honest encouragement.

Cheers!
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Ron
Member
Username: Ron

Post Number: 122
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.93.105
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tonya is the one, Gannon. She is very friendly, and in fact, always appears happy. And this coming from someone who has very little in terms of material possessions. She obviously has an inner joy that so many of us lack. (And I have to say, it often rubs off on me when I talk to her)

I also agree that there are a few who are mean, thieving people, but again, the same can be said for the population in general. It is the whole (or is it hole????, Sorry I couldn't resist after my discussion on another thread) few bad apples spoiling the bunch deal.

I also agree that what could make a big difference to someone is a mere acknowledgment, a smile, a hello. What does this cost us? But the rewards are potentially immeasurable.

What does that bumper sticker say, "Practice random acts of kindness" or something like that.
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Ron
Member
Username: Ron

Post Number: 123
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.93.103
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 6:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Redfordette,

Thanks for the acknowledgement, but I cannot take any credit. I am far from perfect, nor do I attend Church service on a regular basis, but I really try to just treat others as I wish to be treated. My mother and my God are the ones to thank. Thanks Mom! Thanks God!

Life is just too short to get caught up in petty issues. I have had far too many friends die a young death, and many others completely waste their potential, over petty things. It really pisses me off sometimes.

When I used to work with young people, the one thing I would always tell them is that they have a duty to use the gifts they have been given. We all should try to maximize our potential. If we all did that, we could have cured cancer and AIDS by now. We could have solved numerous problems which plague society. We all have a duty to each other to use our gifts for the benefit of us all. I often fall short, and that to me, is the worst thing anyone can do. To he whom much is given, much is required.

I never saw the movie "Pay it forward" but I think, from my understanding of the plot, that it proposes a very nice perspective on life. If just a few more of us actively lived like that, how much better would life be for us all?

But alas, maybe I'm just feeling sentimental and emotional today, but I'll stop now.
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Pacypacy_
Member
Username: Pacypacy_

Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 24.192.166.67
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 6:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There were panhandlers and beggers long before Mr. Engler unless he was governor since the 1700's. If you want to bring up his name then why hasn't Gov. Jennifer Grandstand done anything for them? If I go to Greektown or anywhere for a pleasant dining experience I expect atmosphere and ambiance to go with that meal. I can control myself and expect rowdy, obnoxious suburbanites to do likewise or answer to the security force, i have no problem with that.
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 52
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 69.221.79.238
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live, work, shop and travel in Detroit. I get REALLY f***ing sick of being constantly nagged by panhandlers. And yet, there is a guy whose turf is right near my job downtown, and he is such a decent, polite and appreciative guy that I try to keep a supply of empties for him, and I give him a couple of bucks on top of those... I suppose that I have "adopted" him, in a small way... He would probably get pissed off if he saw anyone else hitting me up for change... I'm not bragging about such a small thing; it's just that the assholes who do things like suddenly appear RIGHT AT your car window, or come at you with, "Yo, my man!," could learn something from that guy.
It is helpful to remind oneself of the phrase, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." For many of us, a couple hard turns of the bad luck wheel, and we're right out there with them.
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Ddaydave
Member
Username: Ddaydave

Post Number: 409
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 67.149.185.244
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

tonight at the magic stick to get from your car to the door you had to get past 4 panhandlers
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Themax
Member
Username: Themax

Post Number: 10
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 69.246.123.118
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 10:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's one list Detroit isn't on.
http://www.nationalhomeless.or g/publications/crimreport2004/ meanest.html

People with money to spare should give their money to local charities and that is not always churches. There are some leaders of churches with criminal records who just see religion as another racket. One trip to the hospital could land anyone of us on the streets today.

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/getinvolved/projects/hatecrimes/index.html

(Message edited by themax on May 14, 2006)
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Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan

Post Number: 355
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.43.81.191
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 10:51 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stop giving these people money when they beg for it, and they'll quit panhandling. They aren't using that money to buy "food." Give your money to a shelter or a food bank instead, any homeless person can go to one of these places and be fed or have a warm place to sleep. The begging on the streets is to get "play" money, and they aren't spending it at the arcades. You are only feeding their habits by giving them money.


I remember reading about some kind of program in San Francisco. A part of their business district had a real problem with homeless panhandlers, they were driving away customers and business were suffering. So they instituted a program, instead of money, the employees and customers were urged to hand out free "meal cards" that could be redeemed at local eateries for things like sandwiches and fruit. Their homeless problem went away very quickly after the homeless realized that they would have to settle for food instead of money, I guess they weren't that hungry after all.
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Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 718
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.177.56
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 12:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, they probably just went and got homes. Great idea. It's so easy to get rid of the homeless!
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Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 681
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 12:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I was at the Greyhound for the first time some nine years, some beggar was sizing me up. So when he approached me, I beat him to it and asked him first if he had a quarter for me. It worked; he left! But alas, no quarter for me though.
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Ravine
Member
Username: Ravine

Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 70.233.3.26
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 8:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know that, most of the time, giving them money is only feeding their habit, but I don't really care. I suppose my feeling is, I won't begrudge the guy a half-pint of Five O'Clock gin; he hasn't got shit else. Maybe a good gin buzz gives him a few hours of some sense of contentment. It's O.K. with me. (But I only extend that consideration for the one guy I was talking about.)
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Thecarl
Member
Username: Thecarl

Post Number: 767
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 69.14.30.175
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

lazyboy lyrics:


quote:

We're in one of the richest countries in the world,
but the minimum wage is lower than it was thirty five years ago.
There are homeless people everywhere.
This homeless guy asked me for money the other day.
I was about to give it to him and then I thought he was going to use it on drugs or alcohol.
And then I thought, that's what I'm going to use it on.
Why am I judging this poor bastard.
People love to judge homeless guys. Like if you give them money they're just going to waste it.
Well, he lives in a box, what do you want him to do? Save it up and buy a wall unit?
Take a little run to the store for a throw rug and a CD rack? He's homeless.
I walked behind this guy the other day.
A homeless guy asked him for money.
He looks right at the homeless guy and says why don't you go get a job you bum.
People always say that to homeless guys like it is so easy.
This homeless guy was wearing his underwear outside his pants.
Outside his pants. I'm guessing his resume isn't all up to date.
I'm predicting some problems during the interview process.
I'm pretty sure even McDonalds has a "underwear goes inside the pants" policy.
Not that they enforce it really strictly, but technically I'm sure it is on the books.




EDIT - adding link to complete lyrics:
http://www.lyricstop.com/u/underweargoesinsidethepants-lazyboy.html

(Message edited by thecarl on May 14, 2006)

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