  Mrjoshua Member Username: Mrjoshua Post Number: 825 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 69.208.123.95 |
Hmmm...sounds familiar. A New Arc By PAUL MULSHINE May 11, 2006; Page A17 The Wall Street Journal Newark, N.J. Jane Jacobs, who died last month at age 89, was the Alexis de Tocqueville of cities. In her 1961 book "The Death and Life of Great American Cities," Jacobs predicted, among other things, that bulldozing neighborhoods and concentrating poor people in high-rises would lead to disaster. In 1967, it did. The city of Newark, N.J., just across the river from Jacobs's Greenwich Village apartment, erupted in one of the worst race riots in American history. Afterward, Newark was dying. A lively city of almost half a million saw its population cut in half by white flight. Richard Florida's dad was not among those who fled then. He had left Newark a few years earlier, when the city was afflicted by another aspect of urban renewal that Jacobs opposed, Robert Moses' plan to bisect lower Manhattan with an expressway. That highway was stopped, but Interstate 280 now runs over the spot where young Richard spent his early years before the family decamped for the suburbs. His relatives still lived in Newark's north ward, however, and he spent much of his youth visiting on weekends. "When I was a kid, I always thought all cities were like Newark," Mr. Florida said. "It's the worst botch job ever." He speaks with authority. Mr. Florida is perhaps the most prominent of Jacobs's disciples in a field where her ideas now predominate. A professor of public policy at George Mason University, Mr. Florida is the author of "The Rise of the Creative Class," which makes the case for reviving cities by attracting energetic and intelligent people. No place on earth is better situated for such a revival than Newark, he argues. "The location of Newark without question is the greatest available piece of real estate in the United States." Like Mr. Florida, Cory Booker grew up in a North Jersey suburb. He is the son of a middle-class African-American couple who broke the color barrier. The tall, athletic Mr. Booker played football at Stanford and later studied at Oxford as a Rhodes scholar. And like Richard Florida, he is a disciple of Jane Jacobs. "She had a very strong belief in creating strong neighborhoods and communities," Mr. Booker told me a couple of days before Tuesday's election for mayor of Newark, which he won in a landslide. As he talked about his plans for the city, we drove past empty lots and abandoned housing. Mr. Booker was imagining filling those dead blocks with some of the most conveniently located housing in the New York area. "It's quicker to get to the former World Trade Center site on the PATH train than for people on the Upper West Side or Upper East Side to get there." And it's not just Manhattan that's easily accessible. Amtrak will get you to Washington in 2˝ hours. Newark also has an airport, a seaport and access to every major highway on the Northeast Corridor. So why don't builders take advantage of this prime location? "Newark has a notorious reputation in the state of New Jersey for the length of time it takes to get certificates of code compliance or certificates of occupancy for these buildings," Mr. Booker said. One woman had to wait eight months to get approval to open a business, he noted. Meanwhile, one builder found it impossible to get his paperwork approved -- even though the work he was doing was for the city housing authority. The guy then hired a "facilitator" to move the project along, but he still got nowhere. The really frightening part, said Mr. Booker, was that the facilitator was the son of the mayor. That mayor was Sharpe James. In his 20 years of running Newark, Mr. James managed to accumulate a Rolls-Royce, several houses and a yacht. Throughout that time, he openly opposed gentrification. He didn't want newcomers moving to the city. With good reason: They would have voted him out. When Mr. Booker first challenged Mr. James for the mayoralty in 2002, Mr. James survived only by running what was almost certainly the dirtiest campaign of the century. He accused Mr. Booker of "collaborating with the Jews to take over Newark" and even went so far as to say of Mr. Booker on TV, "He's Jewish." He isn't. He isn't white, either. But Mr. James accused him of that as well. The tactics won Mr. James enough of a margin in the housing projects and among city workers to beat Mr. Booker. Meanwhile the state's Democratic establishment turned a blind eye to the race-baiting and anti-Semitism. The policy of the political class toward Newark, even in Republican administrations, has been to throw pork-barrel projects at it. Mr. James looked like he was on a roll. But then he pulled out of this year's mayoral race at the last minute. His reason remains a subject of speculation to those who follow New Jersey politics. "There were lots of mayors like James who said, 'I'd rather keep my power base than build my city,'" says Mr. Florida. "Jane Jacobs told me the problem is that these cities are run by squelchers." By that she meant politicos who try to stamp out anything they can't control. They love big public projects, but private enterprise makes them nervous. Meanwhile the professional planners on public payrolls are squelchers of a different sort. They keep trying to remake cities in their past image. 'They're not going to bring back suburban, middle-class families to Newark," Mr. Florida says. "What you can bring in is young singles, the gay community and empty-nesters who are looking to be closer to an urban center." This is the creative class that led to the revival of such cities as Hoboken, which was almost as bad as Newark 25 years ago, but is now like a little slice of the Upper East Side transplanted across the Hudson. Mr. Booker, though he has never met Mr. Florida, is thinking along the same lines. He wants to see private industry build thousands of units near the train stations, creating a "24-hour downtown" that will be both a social center and a center of employment for the city's poorer residents. The thousands of students at the city's two universities will stick around at night instead of taking their business back to the suburbs. "If we do this right, we can shock people within four years," Mr. Booker said. Shock? A successful city in Newark's location shouldn't shock anyone. What was shocking was the failure. Mr. Mulshine is a columnist for the Newark Star-Ledger. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 158 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
Yeah, with the cost of living just hundreds of yards away in Manhattan, Newark could be a tremendous deal if they position it correctly. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1136 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.1.1.101 |
For what it's worth, I see Kwame as roughly halfway in between Mr. Booker and Mr. James. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1698 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
What about CAY? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1699 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
St. Louis too... http://www.usatoday.com/news/n ation/2006-05-10-stlouis_x.htm | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 486 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 4.229.60.147 |
Lots of Detroiters will nod their heads in recognition while reading Mr. Mulshine's article. A very familiar story with nary a mention of the Motor City. Mayor Booker recognizes that the creative class demographic is the best-positioned group to initiate urban revitalization. Mayor Kilpatrick, while probably not a "disciple" of Jane Jacobs, also broadly understands what some of the Jacobs/Richard Florida principles can do for Detroit. (Very few City Council members agree.) If Newark can avoid spiraling taxes and excessive insurance rates, it will soon mirror the success of Hoboken and some other smaller New Jersey cities. Detroit will be able to learn alot from what succeeds in Newark. But then again maybe not, we need to do it our way, right. Because we're different. | ||
Goat Member Username: Goat Post Number: 8452 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 70.53.96.156 |
Geez, it's like looking in a mirror. Especially this little ditty: "Newark has a notorious reputation in the state of New Jersey for the length of time it takes to get certificates of code compliance or certificates of occupancy for these buildings," Mr. Booker said. One woman had to wait eight months to get approval to open a business, Why so much red tape for cities that are bleeding? | ||
Darwinism Member Username: Darwinism Post Number: 504 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.209.164.233 |
Swingline: Di-i-tto !!! Totally agree with you. Detroit is so unique and so different. A few knuckleheads on this forum itself tend to reject any kind of comparison to other places. I have made numerous attempts to encourage picking up ideas from other cities around the whole world. But each time, there are closed-minded tunnel-visioned jerk-offs who find that it hurt their Big-D-ego way too much. Newark, St. Louis, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and dozens of other cities will be miles ahead of Detroit when the cloud clears. | ||
Dougw Member Username: Dougw Post Number: 1138 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.220.224.184 |
There are a lot of parallels between the two cities, but there is one notable difference: Detroit is the central city of its metro region, while Newark is one of the smaller cities in its metro region (NYC). This may make Newark's turnaround a bit easier to accomplish. But Detroit's turnaround will be a sea change for the region if/when it does occur. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 1976 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 66.2.148.162 |
anything close to NYC is fair game for redevelopment. (SoBro, anyone?) Lots of artists have been quietly living in Newark, as well as other blighted cities like Patterson, for years, but with James finally gone I'd say that Newark is posed for massive redevelopment. Booker attracted the attention of a doc filmaker 5 years ago, when he first ran against James. I've been meaning to catch the film for a while. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 251 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.60.139.169 |
One similarity between Detroit and Newark is that we both have apartment buildings designed by Mies van der Rohe. The Colonnade in Newark looks like a larger version of one of the Lafayette Towers here in Detroit. http://members.aol.com/resurge ncecity/colonnad.jpg | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 679 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
There was a time when Newark reportedly had five dominant Mafioso families. Was that accurate and if so, what remains of that? | ||
Erikto Member Username: Erikto Post Number: 367 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 64.228.108.96 |
The documentary is called 'Street Fight', and it was excellent. I saw it on CBC last Sunday night on 'The Passionate Eye'. Some scenes were downright jaw-dropping. | ||
Jjaba Member Username: Jjaba Post Number: 3813 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 67.160.138.107 |
Newark Airport has train to the plane on two lines, AMTRAK and NJ Transit. You leave Penn Station, NYC, for EWR. At the EWR terminal, you get on a free little monorail skytram to your terminal. 20 minutes, $11.00. Newark has an old subway system. Newark has the PATH trains to Manhattan. (Port Authority Trans-Hudson.) Those are three transit items unlike Detroit. jjaba. | ||
Njmikey Member Username: Njmikey Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 168.238.128.4 |
I'm from New Jersey and live in Hoboken. Newark has a horrible reputation in this state and it will not easily make the transformation Hoboken did in the 1980's. No one goes to Newark unless they're going to the airport or to buy drugs. Also The City of Hoboken is only 1 square mile surrounded by Jersey City, which made it's transformation easier. Sections Of Jersey City will come around before Newark. Newark's Problems also go back to this man: Hugh Joseph Addonizio Hugh Joseph Addonizio (January 31, 1914 in Newark, New Jersey–February 2, 1981 in Red Bank, New Jersey) was a U.S. political figure. He graduated from Fordham University in New York City in 1939 and went to work for A&C Clothing, Co. in Newark where he became vice president in 1946. During World War II he had served in the United States Army, attaining the rank of second lieutenant. In 1946, Addonizio ran for and won a seat in the U.S. House of Representatives as a Democrat. He resigned his seat on June 30, 1962 to run for mayor of Newark. He served as mayor from 1962 until 1970 when he lost his reelection bid. Addonizio, the last white mayor of Newark, was convicted of corruption after leaving office. Much of the corruption became public when was convicted, along with five others working in or through his administration, of "literally delivering the city into the hands of organized crime," according to former U.S. District Judge Herbert J. Stern. Convicted with Addonizio on charges of extortion were Anthony (Tony Boy) Boiardo, reputed Mafia leader; former city public works director Anthony LaMorte; Norman Schiff and Phillip Gordon, both former city corporation counsel, and Ralph Vacaro, labeled the "bag man" for Boiardo. All five were charged with taking kickbacks on heavy construction projects. Addonizio was sentenced to 10 years but was released in 1979 after serving five. | ||
Wsugradguy Member Username: Wsugradguy Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.16.9.11 |
Well, as a recent transplant from Detroit, MI to the state of New Jersey I must say that Newark very much reminds me of home. In fact there are times late at night coming home from the club when I look around downtown Newark and feel that I'm back in Detroit. Driving North down Broad street into the downtown area is just like driving south down Woodward. The biggest difference to me is the number of people that you see on the streets. Especially during the day and on the weekends. There is still a very active commercial sector in Newark, and although some might feel that "nobody" goes to Newark, my impressions driving around is that there are quite a few people who go to Newark and shop there. Even if its only the people who live there. Which is a major difference from Downtown Detroit. (although things are slowly changing)But I would definitly agree that there are striking similarities between the two cities. I live in Elizabeth, NJ by the way. | ||
Wsugradguy Member Username: Wsugradguy Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.16.9.11 |
Guess my post wasn't all that historical, but thought I'd add my two cents anyway. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 351 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
My father-in-law went to Newark College of Engineering in the 60's and has said that Detroit and Newark are very similar with one exception being that Detroit is the cultural center for SE Michigan, so people will always go to Detroit for plays, opera, the symphony etc. Newark on the other hand is totally overshadowed by NYC (culturally speaking). Although I agree it may at some point be a good market for decent residential neighborhoods (and perhaps even office space) because of it's proximity to NYC. But it will never be able to compete culturally with NYC. It looks like they've got a great mayor now, which goes a long way. Plus they have an old subway system too? I agree. Newark seems like it has major potential. | ||
Krapug Member Username: Krapug Post Number: 38 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 24.188.92.110 |
There are other similar issues that link Newark and Detroit. Both cities had race riots the same summer, July '67, and today both cities lack a major downtown retailer, and Newark no longer has a first run movie theatre downtown. For that matter Newark does not have any mass market stores within the city period (K-Mart, Target and the like), and Newark has less than a half dozen supermarkets within the city limits. downtown Newark also has it's share of ruins, and perhaps someone could photograph these buildings. Some of the ruins include: S Klein "on the square" Building, this former dept store still has the neon signs on the front, it's been closed since 1976. Wiss Jewlers Building Griffth Tower, this building formely ran a piano conservatory Hahne & Co, once Newark's "white glove" store, this building was gutted for development in the 90's, and has sat untouched since RKO Proctor's Theatre, the marque fell a long time ago, but the building still stands, it also had a 2nd theatre on the top floor of the tower. Branford, Adams, and Newark Paramount Theatre's, all 3 are closed and the lobbies have been turned into retail space. First National Bank Tower Western Union, and CRR Terminal, these buildings were to be incorrporated into the Rennaisance Mall, the mall got started, the developer defalted and the buildings sat undone. They are now due to be torn down for the new Hockey arena. downtown Newark also has a number of "capped buildings", where the street floor is leased as retail space, and the rest of the building sealed off. Ken | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 355 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
It seems that there is some retail that gets use in downtown Newark because there is mass transit. Wsugradguy, can you confirm? If anything it sounds like Newark is not suburbanized like Detroit is. There isn't the car culture and parking lot mentality that Detroit has. Krapug, my father-in-law was buying my mother-in-law's engagement ring when the '67 riots broke out in Newark. He had to run through the streets hiding it. He tells the story often. That was the last straw for him (I don't think he's been back much since). | ||
Krapug Member Username: Krapug Post Number: 39 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 24.188.92.110 |
Similar to downtown Detroit's business level, downtown Newark took a big hit after the 67 riots. Although downtown newark was not damaged per say, the main routes that many suburbanites used to get to and from downtown, Springfield Avenue, and South Orange Avenue were at ground zero during the rioting. Many suburban shoppers stayed away from downtown newark after the riots, some would return during the Christmas season, but even this business was gone by the ealy 70's. Bamberger's, "the Hudson's" of downtown Newark, looked more like a fortress by the mid-70's, with most of it's display windows closed or shrunk in size, 1/2 it's entrances were closed up, evening hours were dropped, and more and more floors and floor space were turned over to offices, and storage. The chain refered to it's Paramus, Garden State Plaza store as it's flagship during this time. as was noted by eastsidedog, the Newark riots broke out during the day (3:30 PM), many people tell th stories of "feeing" the city. Ken | ||
Wsugradguy Member Username: Wsugradguy Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 192.245.246.12 |
EastSidedog, Yep, people definitly use the mass transit system in newark, trains and busses and I must say that even late at night the stations are full of people waiting along the side of the road. Also, the lack of a major department store or theatre in Newark definitly doesn't stop the commerce on its main streets. Although I definitly don't see suburban types shopping the streets, they are full of shoppers and open stores on a Saturday afternoon, unlike downtown Detroit. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 356 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
WOW. how the car kills downtowns. I was in downtown Detroit a couple weeks ago and tried to go to the new CVS to buy a couple things. But it closed at 7pm! So I had to drive to the one on Jefferson! Why bother with retail in downtown Detroit! Might as well say f%ck it and fill it with bars, restaurants, clubs and lofts Royal Oak-style! Seriously. All this talk on this forum about making Detroit dense and walkable and urban is all a big waste of time if there's no good mass transit! WTF! Sorry had to vent. Sorry to go OT. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 698 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.215.67.71 |
I hate to pick on Newark, but its situation seems to me far worse than Detroit, at least driving through downtown Newark. Everytime I go to downtown Detroit, I'm impressed by how it's coming along. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 710 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
Wouldn't having a CVS store downtown open 24/7 make it a haven for the various street folk? Stores love paying customers who don't make unwarranted withdrawals of wares. | ||
Wsugradguy Member Username: Wsugradguy Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 192.245.246.6 |
Well, I wasn't here to see the worst of Newark, but just the sheer greater numbers of people that I see in the streets on a regular basis (not just during speical events)makes it seem like a livlier city than Detroit. And remember, Newark doesn't have nearly the population that Detroit does. To me, that says something. Either way, both cities have a terrible reputation, and both cities are attemtping a turn around. I must say, however, that I think Detroit's momentum is higher than that of Newark. But perhaps I haven't been in this area long enough to properly gauge Newark's momentum. (Message edited by wsugradguy on May 17, 2006) | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 360 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Wsugradguy, I've heard there is a good Portugese neighborhood in Newark with good eats. You should check it out and let me now how it is! Livernoisyard, damn you anti-street people folk, I'm sure the other CVS locations in the city have losses from shoplifting, but they also get tons of regular business to make up for it. The CVS downtown sucks. I will probably NEVER set foot in that store. It's just that inconvenient. If the city wants there to be any chance of retail succeeding downtown on Woodward, then they need to add on-street parking. No one is gonna park in the Compuware garage to go to CVS when they can drive to the one on Jefferson and park for free. Relying on business from people who are within walking distance during their extremely limited hours is a recipe for quick closure. | ||
Njmikey Member Username: Njmikey Post Number: 18 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 168.238.128.4 |
Eastside dog, there is a great Portugese section in Newark. It's called the Ironbound Section (named this because at one time it was bound by railroads on all ends) http://www.saintpetersburgtime s.com/2004/05/02/Travel/The_Ne wark_you_never_.shtml http://www.goironbound.com/ I might have been a little hard on Newark in my earlier post. Hopefully Newark will get better but I see Jersey City as the rising city in North Jersey. | ||
Wsugradguy Member Username: Wsugradguy Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 192.245.246.6 |
I agree with Njmikey, a friend took me around Jersey City a few weekends ago and it was very nice. Well, at least the downtown area was. As far as everything else, as with everywhere else, there were good and bad areas. I'll have to check out the portugeuse area next time I'm in Newark. I will say this, after a little over a month of living here in Jersey, I do miss DETROIT. As I always will! | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 361 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Thanks Njmikey! That article makes Newark look great! Next time I'm out east I will try to visit Ironbound! I have to admit that I have mass transit envy after reading through the Ironbound site... | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1707 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
I agree about the hours, but you can park on the street withing 2 blocks in virtually every direction. Library and Farmer are your best bests. The distance is comparable to walking accross the parking lot. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 362 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
I (and probably many others) will walk two blocks or more to a restaurant/club/bar but not to retail. People want to drive up to the retail store so they can carry their purchses to their car. People generally don't want to carry their stuff 2 blocks, especially if they have a bunch or bags and especially in the winter. It's unbelievable to me that on street parking wasn't added to Woodward by narrowing the side walks (there's no where near enough pedestrians on a regualar basis to warrant sidewalks that wide). The lack of on-street parking directly in front of stores will/is making that strip of Woodward a retail failure. On the other hand (in order to not go too OT), Downtown Newark it seems enjoys plenty of storefront retail that gets heavy use. They may not have on-street parking all across downtown (Wsugradguy - it seems you're the closest we have to an expert - can you confirm?) but they DO have really good mass transit which it seems most people take to the stores. This is the big difference between the two downtowns. Newark has really good mass transit going through it's downtown allowing people to shop and jump right back on the train to head home with their purchases. In Detroit you have to walk a couple blocks AND the store hours generally suck. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 363 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
On top of all that you can drive 5 minutes to lots of stores on Jefferson, park for free right outside and they all have good hours. I can't see how downtown can compete except for a small niche of customers who live/work downtown and make plans to visit these places when they are open. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1709 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
A couple of things ESD, Many people walk much further across the Meijer or Kroger parking lot than you have to in order to go from Library to CVS. I agree that downtown needs high quality transit in order to foster retail. But there is decent bus service on woodward right now. The bus is more frequent than most realize and if you are going from University Tower for example, you probably get there quicker than if you walk down to the CVS on Warren (The Rite Aid is close, but it also closes unreasonably early.) Downtown workers are not a small niche. They are tens of thousands of people. I agree that on street parking is a good thing. I think it was not put in on that block because it might conflict with traffice entering or exiting Campus Martius. I don't agree with that assessment, but I suspect that is what the traffic engineers were thinking. There is on street parking on the next block north, but there is also a bus stop taking a bunch of it up. (We can't have our cake and eat it too.) There is a lot more parking in the next few blocks up to GCP. How many bags are people carrying out of a CVS? What about people walking around for blocks loaded to the gills at eastern market every Saturday. I think the CVS's biggest problem is that they close before people like me (that live near downtown but work well outside the city limits) get home. They also close before somebody who works and lives downtown has left their happy hour. But the truth is, I think they are probably doing just fine. Everytime I go in there is it active. But there is little reason for them to be the only retail around open in the evenings. I think it has to start with an organized effort from downtown retailers (and restaurants - I'm calling out Jimmy Johns and Starbucks) to stay open late on Friday and Saturday nights. 9 seems like a good target. Build the foot traffic from there. (BTW - It is not that I completely disagree with you, but it seems that what you want is a suburban strip mall. So why complain that downtown is not like that?) | ||
Wsugradguy Member Username: Wsugradguy Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 192.245.246.6 |
EastSideDawg, Like Detroit, Downtown Newark seems to have areas where on-street parking is available and others where it is not. I don't think the main commercial strip that I'm familiar with has on-street parking though, and it doesn't seem to effect storefront commerce one bit. | ||
Njmikey Member Username: Njmikey Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 168.238.128.4 |
Oh and case you guys were wondering I love Detroit. I'm from Jersey (well born in Brooklyn NY, but grew up in Jersey) I met a girl in college who was from South Lyon and before that Redford. I spent a lot of time in Michigan and Detroit when we dated and became fascinated with Detroit. I haven't been back there in like 3 years but would like to make a trip soon to see the progress made in that time. Will My Yankees be seeing your Tigers in the playoffs this year? | ||
Tomoh Member Username: Tomoh Post Number: 184 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.148.60.142 |
The downtown CVS offers free parking in the structure above them. However, I've always found street parking close by. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 365 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.7 |
Exactly Wsugradguy, When you have good mass transit (i.e. rail) you don't need street parking as much.
Jsmyers, I hate strip malls. But in the absence of rapid transit, rail etc. ABUNDANT CONVENIENT parking is essential for successful retail. I hate it but it's true. I'm just saying that in car dependent Detroit, people generally hate to walk and under less than optimal conditions will drive to a strip mall before parking a couple blocks over and walking to a store front, I'd say almost every time, without fail. The reason stores do OK in downtown Ferndale and RO is because their is abundant parking both on the street and in parking lots behind the stores, many of which even have back entrances. I hate it but it's just true. This city was built for mass transit on an epic scale, hence the width of sidewalk on Woodward between GCP and CM, but ever since transit was ripped out Detroit has been converting to an auto dependent model, hence the gradual disappearance of store fronts all over the city -- now there are strip malls ALL OVER DETROIT. I hate it, but short of developing a real rapid transit system, parking has to be accomodated to make Detroit prosper. Without a doubt rapid transit would be a million times better, but I don't think the Big 3 will ever let it happen. Ever. Maybe if they totally tanked or merged with their foreign rivals, then mass transit good get the light of day. Even then, maybe, because the general attitudes in Detroit and the suburbs is anti-transit. Maybe when all the baby boomers get old and can't drive anymore then they will vote in favor of it. Who knows. Sorry for the rant. Whew... |
