Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 65 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 71.201.190.23
| Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:09 pm: | |
Does anybody have that picture of downtown looking from the river with all the "unbuilt" planned projects/buildings in the city skyline? |
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 49 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.227.102.82
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:41 am: | |
Here is a postcard of a planned Civic Center that would have been placed where Hart Plaza is now. Sorry for the small size, it's one of my older scans. |
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026
Post Number: 798 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:44 am: | |
wow, i wish the underground parking for 35,000 cars had actually been created... |
Harsensis Member Username: Harsensis
Post Number: 50 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 71.227.102.82
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:44 am: | |
Oh I forgot to add that this is a Linen card, so it should be from the 1940's. For a while I was selling these on ebay, I'll have to look and see if I have anymore of them. I'm sure I would have kept one for my own Detroit collection too. I'll see if I can pinpoint the date. |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 43 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:50 am: | |
http://img28.photobucket.com/a lbums/v85/skyscraperguy4/Unbui ltRiverfront.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v116/vietn0w/Image4.jpg Unbuilt book tower http://skyscraperpage.com/gall ery/data/637/281detroit-bookto wer.jpg |
Mplsryan Member Username: Mplsryan
Post Number: 140 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.229.202.195
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:00 am: | |
what a monstrosity, neither elegant nore practical. Good thing it didn't turn out like that- the smaller better proportioned book tower is far better. |
Naturalsister Member Username: Naturalsister
Post Number: 626 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.8.251.191
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:05 am: | |
Apbest, You are the best. Great!!!!! |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 46 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:08 am: | |
well it would be if it got some desperately needed cleaning and restructuring in management/rennovation btw, there is a book about "unbuilt detroit", if youre interested (Message edited by apbest on May 13, 2006) |
Aaron Member Username: Aaron
Post Number: 107 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.241.224.171
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 3:14 am: | |
Mplsryan: That isn't an alternate design to the existing Book Tower, it was another Book Tower. You can see the original to the back of the 81-story building in the postcard. |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 48 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.40.65.66
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:00 am: | |
Im pretty sure it would have built on to existing tower such that it would replace it |
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve
Post Number: 2944 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.148.29.71
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:11 am: | |
I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong about that. |
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve
Post Number: 2945 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.148.29.71
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:19 am: | |
Here's a couple that I scanned the last time we talked about this. One St. Antoine, which would have been at the riverfront. One Beta West, also along the riverfront, futher upriver from One St. Antoine. One Kennedy Square.
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Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 49 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.42.220.61
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:08 pm: | |
one kennedy square would have been awesome, but with Chene East/West...the riverfront will come along |
Benjamin Member Username: Benjamin
Post Number: 139 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 216.59.235.129
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:16 pm: | |
Question: would the second Book Tower have been taller than the Rennisance Centre? I know it would have been the tallest structure in the world in 1930-31 if the depression hadn't intervened. I actually rather like the full Book Building, and, contrary to certain suggestions, none of what exists today would have suffered for it. The building would simply have taken up the remainder of the block. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the space is currently occupied by a two story structure of little architectural interest. Could someone find a photograph? Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E. |
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026
Post Number: 802 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.38.8.227
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:29 pm: | |
yep, the second Book would have been 8 more stories than the Ren Cen. |
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 66 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 71.201.190.23
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:30 pm: | |
where would I get that book "unbuilt detroit", I am very interested and looked on Amazon.....I live in chicago so cannot go to Pure Detroit, so this could be a tougher item to aquire. |
Rbdetsport Member Username: Rbdetsport
Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 68.61.11.146
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:32 pm: | |
So why didn't the newer buildings get built? Like the Kennedy Square and riverfront towers? |
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 49 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.195.233
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:37 pm: | |
Benjamin: Book Tower II would have been 80 floors (as stated on the postcard) where as the center portion of the RenCen is 70 Floors. (according to www.skyscraperpage.com) Thus, if the book tower II was built, it would have been (and would still be) Detroit's biggest building |
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026
Post Number: 803 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 67.38.8.227
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:57 pm: | |
RenCen is actually 73 stories.... |
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria
Post Number: 217 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 6:55 pm: | |
I can't find the the picture on the web, but the present day Fisher Building was actually designed as an offset to an 80 story tower with another 'Fisher Building' on the other side of it. Thanks to the Great Depression, it was not built ... many of you already know this. If the Great Depression was just a few years later the skyline of Detroit would be much, much different. Detroit was the 'it' city of the late 1920s and also mid 1940s - mid 1960s. Very deserving, IMO. |
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve
Post Number: 2946 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.148.29.71
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 7:24 pm: | |
Rb, some of the proposals were just speculative ideas of what could be built, tossed out there by architects just as an exercise. Others fell victim to the Great Depression. The work at what we know as Hart Plaza stopped the first time by the Depression. Then, in the 50's the city started on it, but by that time tastes had changed. The stylized classical designs selected in the 20's were too outdated for "modern" tastes. The suburbs were happening then, too, so the waterfront plans for Hart Plaza were scaled back as the city swirled around the drain. |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 51 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.42.220.61
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 8:39 pm: | |
Original Fisher building designs http://internationalmetropolis .com/images/2006//f20.jpg |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 2097 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.75
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:59 pm: | |
BTW folks, you cannot compare a 73 story hotel tower (RenCen) with an 80 or 81 story office tower on a floor-to-floor comparison. Generally speaking a hotel floor is only about 75% as tall as an office building floor. The RenCen tower is about 730 ft tall (actually it's 721 ft tall from the front entrance, 748 ft tall from the back entrance). An 80 story office tower would be about 1,000 ft tall. |
Eric_michael Member Username: Eric_michael
Post Number: 15 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 65.183.61.38
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:43 pm: | |
"Does anybody have that picture of downtown looking from the river with all the "unbuilt" planned projects/buildings in the city skyline?" I don't know if this is what you are talking about tkelly but I have a framed original of the "Unbuilt Detroit" newspaper insert that John Gallagher researched and Rochon illustrated. I think it's from the 80's... |
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve
Post Number: 2947 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.148.29.71
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:52 pm: | |
Eric, that's what he's talking about. The pics I posted are from that magazine. It's the Free Press Magazine from about 15 years ago. |
Jasoncw Member Username: Jasoncw
Post Number: 151 Registered: 07-2005 Posted From: 67.149.141.170
| Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:06 pm: | |
Hey, less empty office space to fill up! It would be cool if there was a better drawing of the Book Tower design, but I'm not sure if I care if it got built or not. With that building being there, the active part of downtown might have shifted over there, and today the Guardian and Penobscot might be abandoned instead of the other Book buildings. I know that's not exactly how real life works, but still, Washington would be the focus instead of where it is now. It really sucks that the rest of the Fisher building wasn't built. I don't mind that the second Detroit Tower (or whatever it's called) wasn't built. |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 53 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.42.220.61
| Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:00 am: | |
yeah, I think a complimenting tower to Comerica would make Detroit Center awesome and more of a, well, center. btw...the other Book building isn't abandoned, just in a serious need of cleaning/restoration |
Detroitstar Member Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 33 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 65.42.16.138
| Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:08 am: | |
I think the shown proposal for One Kennedy Square would look really cool in the Detroit skyline right now. Couldnt really name a particular place, but I like the look. |
Apbest Member Username: Apbest
Post Number: 54 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.42.220.61
| Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 8:15 am: | |
maybe Monroe?...but I think Monroe is supposed to be REsidential and that looks like office to me |
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289
Post Number: 1129 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223
| Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 1:21 pm: | |
an 80story office building has alot of high floors that could fetch some good coin as residential property. |
Ray Member Username: Ray
Post Number: 694 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.183.185
| Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 10:39 pm: | |
Every time I drive down Big Beaver, I can't help but think what downtown would have been like if all those towers had been build there instead of Troy. |
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom
Post Number: 440 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 24.192.148.150
| Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:51 pm: | |
The same can be said about Southfield.. They have even more tall buildings than Troy does.. by far.. |
Karl Member Username: Karl
Post Number: 2354 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99
| Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:06 pm: | |
That unbuilt Book Tower looks like crap without a fire escape. |
Alexei289 Member Username: Alexei289
Post Number: 1131 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.183.223
| Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:14 pm: | |
could you imagine the costs today of building a building that tall today out of lime stone or concrete??? Theres a reason most of the skyscrapers today are made from glass and steel... |
Bussey Member Username: Bussey
Post Number: 168 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.228.166
| Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:22 pm: | |
Companies like Exxon or Wal Mart that make BILLIONS per quarter could easily afford it, dont let the "modern" costs of building materials fool you. Companies are just less interested in their HQ's being bold and permenant because most companies aren't run by family members anymore. You dont have Carnegies, Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, or McCormicks anymore. Now we have globally run an operated corporations that have new CEO's every other decade or so and have less stability and desire to maintain or even create a strong lasting image. |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 4131 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.157
| Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 10:30 am: | |
Yep, Corporations are controlled by BONDHOLDERS, SHAREHOLDERS, AND STOCHOLDERS. He who has these kinds of Liquid assets and liquid commercial papers. have the companies. For far as I know The Ford Motor Company (NOW A CORPORATION) still has the Ford Family calling the shots. They got the most shares in the stock market therfore they can't be out. Not even Board of Directors can't kick him out unless he's corrupt. |
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed
Post Number: 165 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254
| Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 11:23 am: | |
They can remove Bill Ford from his position as CEO, but they couldn't remove the Ford family's controlling interest. |
Dougw Member Username: Dougw
Post Number: 1144 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 136.2.1.101
| Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:55 pm: | |
Danny is my financial advisor. |
Gistok Member Username: Gistok
Post Number: 2110 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.55
| Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 4:41 pm: | |
The Ford family's class B shares of Ford stock will retain a constant 40% of the total Ford stock voting rights (Class A and B), unless they go below a certain threshold of class B stock ownership (can't remember the threshold). I don't know the comparison between class A total dollar value, and class B total dollar value, but it could be something like 90% (A) to 10% (B). |
Bussey Member Username: Bussey
Post Number: 169 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.212.228.166
| Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:38 pm: | |
weren't we talking about building standards? i love tangents |
Danny Member Username: Danny
Post Number: 4137 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.162
| Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 11:19 am: | |
Focusonthed, NO! the Board of Directors can't remove him out of the company unless he's corrupt! Him and his family still have power over the stocks. It was all of Henry Ford's family secret plan to keep the generation of his family in the company. Henry Ford in fact didn't want his company going kaput! So he make sure that his family maintain his company shares in the stock market and have ABSOLUTE POWER as the PHARISEES over the company. If the Ford Family losses the shares in the stock market. Then the Board of Directors can KICK the Ford family out of the company. Sometimes mom and pop in the corps. can't be out unless there are no more stocks. |
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986
Post Number: 68 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 69.212.3.168
| Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 2:10 pm: | |
where would I get that book "unbuilt detroit", I am very interested and looked on Amazon.....I live in chicago so cannot go to Pure Detroit, so this could be a tougher item to aquire. |
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73
Post Number: 58 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.42.80.245
| Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 6:24 pm: | |
I was wondering that too tkelly. I work at the reference library at CMU and tried to find it. I even enlisted one of the historical librarians who specializes in Michigan history and we couldn't find a thing about it, other than mentions on this site and over on skyscraperpage. Very frustrating. |
Hamtramck_steve Member Username: Hamtramck_steve
Post Number: 2961 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 71.148.29.71
| Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:31 pm: | |
It's not a book; it was the Detroit Free Press Sunday magazine from October 27, 1991. Try calling the Freep or John Gallagher. |
7even Member Username: 7even
Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 198.109.26.18
| Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 6:31 pm: | |
The other day I heard that the Ren Cen was originally designed to be put where Compuware is now. I am not sure if this is just the tower, or all buildings. I am guessing just the tower. I also heard when the buildings were put on the river site they did not change the design at all. Does anyone have any info on this? Is this true? |
Rrl Member Username: Rrl
Post Number: 521 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.181.212.60
| Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 7:25 pm: | |
Doubt it. RenCen was constructed mid-70's. True the Kern block was gone at that time(where CWare stands), but Hudsons was still there, and occupied. Me-thinks it would've been tough to shoe-horn the RenCen onto that site. |