Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Unbuilt detroit picture? Previous Next
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 71.201.190.23
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anybody have that picture of downtown looking from the river with all the "unbuilt" planned projects/buildings in the city skyline?
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Harsensis
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Username: Harsensis

Post Number: 49
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.227.102.82
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:41 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a postcard of a planned Civic Center that would have been placed where Hart Plaza is now. Sorry for the small size, it's one of my older scans. Proposed Civic Center
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 798
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.231.189.137
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, i wish the underground parking for 35,000 cars had actually been created...
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Harsensis
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Username: Harsensis

Post Number: 50
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 71.227.102.82
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:44 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh I forgot to add that this is a Linen card, so it should be from the 1940's. For a while I was selling these on ebay, I'll have to look and see if I have anymore of them. I'm sure I would have kept one for my own Detroit collection too. I'll see if I can pinpoint the date.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.65.66
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 1:50 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://img28.photobucket.com/a lbums/v85/skyscraperguy4/Unbui ltRiverfront.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/alb ums/v116/vietn0w/Image4.jpg

Unbuilt book tower
http://skyscraperpage.com/gall ery/data/637/281detroit-bookto wer.jpg
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Mplsryan
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Username: Mplsryan

Post Number: 140
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.229.202.195
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

what a monstrosity, neither elegant nore practical. Good thing it didn't turn out like that- the smaller better proportioned book tower is far better.
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Naturalsister
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Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 626
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.8.251.191
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apbest,

You are the best. Great!!!!!
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 46
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.65.66
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well it would be if it got some desperately needed cleaning and restructuring in management/rennovation

btw, there is a book about "unbuilt detroit", if youre interested

(Message edited by apbest on May 13, 2006)
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Aaron
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Username: Aaron

Post Number: 107
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.241.224.171
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 3:14 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mplsryan:

That isn't an alternate design to the existing Book Tower, it was another Book Tower. You can see the original to the back of the 81-story building in the postcard.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 48
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.40.65.66
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Im pretty sure it would have built on to existing tower such that it would replace it
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Hamtramck_steve
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Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2944
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.148.29.71
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong about that.
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Hamtramck_steve
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Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2945
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.148.29.71
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a couple that I scanned the last time we talked about this.

One St. Antoine, which would have been at the riverfront.



One Beta West, also along the riverfront, futher upriver from One St. Antoine.



One Kennedy Square.

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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 49
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.42.220.61
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 2:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

one kennedy square would have been awesome, but with Chene East/West...the riverfront will come along
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Benjamin
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Username: Benjamin

Post Number: 139
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 216.59.235.129
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Question: would the second Book Tower have been taller than the Rennisance Centre? I know it would have been the tallest structure in the world in 1930-31 if the depression hadn't intervened.

I actually rather like the full Book Building, and, contrary to certain suggestions, none of what exists today would have suffered for it. The building would simply have taken up the remainder of the block. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the space is currently occupied by a two story structure of little architectural interest. Could someone find a photograph?

Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E.
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 802
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 67.38.8.227
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:29 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep, the second Book would have been 8 more stories than the Ren Cen.
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 71.201.190.23
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

where would I get that book "unbuilt detroit", I am very interested and looked on Amazon.....I live in chicago so cannot go to Pure Detroit, so this could be a tougher item to aquire.
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Rbdetsport
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Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 95
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.61.11.146
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So why didn't the newer buildings get built? Like the Kennedy Square and riverfront towers?
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Andylinn
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Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 49
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 68.40.195.233
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Benjamin:

Book Tower II would have been 80 floors (as stated on the postcard) where as the center portion of the RenCen is 70 Floors. (according to www.skyscraperpage.com) Thus, if the book tower II was built, it would have been (and would still be) Detroit's biggest building
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Motorcitymayor2026
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Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 803
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 67.38.8.227
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

RenCen is actually 73 stories....
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 217
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 6:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't find the the picture on the web, but the present day Fisher Building was actually designed as an offset to an 80 story tower with another 'Fisher Building' on the other side of it. Thanks to the Great Depression, it was not built ... many of you already know this. If the Great Depression was just a few years later the skyline of Detroit would be much, much different. Detroit was the 'it' city of the late 1920s and also mid 1940s - mid 1960s. Very deserving, IMO.
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Hamtramck_steve
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Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2946
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.148.29.71
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 7:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rb, some of the proposals were just speculative ideas of what could be built, tossed out there by architects just as an exercise.

Others fell victim to the Great Depression. The work at what we know as Hart Plaza stopped the first time by the Depression. Then, in the 50's the city started on it, but by that time tastes had changed. The stylized classical designs selected in the 20's were too outdated for "modern" tastes. The suburbs were happening then, too, so the waterfront plans for Hart Plaza were scaled back as the city swirled around the drain.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 51
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.42.220.61
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 8:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Original Fisher building designs

http://internationalmetropolis .com/images/2006//f20.jpg
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2097
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.75
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW folks, you cannot compare a 73 story hotel tower (RenCen) with an 80 or 81 story office tower on a floor-to-floor comparison. Generally speaking a hotel floor is only about 75% as tall as an office building floor.

The RenCen tower is about 730 ft tall (actually it's 721 ft tall from the front entrance, 748 ft tall from the back entrance).

An 80 story office tower would be about 1,000 ft tall.
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Eric_michael
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Username: Eric_michael

Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 65.183.61.38
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Does anybody have that picture of downtown looking from the river with all the "unbuilt" planned projects/buildings in the city skyline?"

I don't know if this is what you are talking about tkelly but I have a framed original of the "Unbuilt Detroit" newspaper insert that John Gallagher researched and Rochon illustrated. I think it's from the 80's...
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Hamtramck_steve
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Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2947
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.148.29.71
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 10:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eric, that's what he's talking about. The pics I posted are from that magazine. It's the Free Press Magazine from about 15 years ago.
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Jasoncw
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Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 151
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.149.141.170
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey, less empty office space to fill up!

It would be cool if there was a better drawing of the Book Tower design, but I'm not sure if I care if it got built or not. With that building being there, the active part of downtown might have shifted over there, and today the Guardian and Penobscot might be abandoned instead of the other Book buildings. I know that's not exactly how real life works, but still, Washington would be the focus instead of where it is now.

It really sucks that the rest of the Fisher building wasn't built.

I don't mind that the second Detroit Tower (or whatever it's called) wasn't built.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 53
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.42.220.61
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah, I think a complimenting tower to Comerica would make Detroit Center awesome and more of a, well, center.

btw...the other Book building isn't abandoned, just in a serious need of cleaning/restoration
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Detroitstar
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Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 33
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 65.42.16.138
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 2:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the shown proposal for One Kennedy Square would look really cool in the Detroit skyline right now. Couldnt really name a particular place, but I like the look.
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Apbest
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Username: Apbest

Post Number: 54
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.42.220.61
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 8:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

maybe Monroe?...but I think Monroe is supposed to be REsidential and that looks like office to me
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1129
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 1:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

an 80story office building has alot of high floors that could fetch some good coin as residential property.
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 694
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.209.183.185
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 10:39 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Every time I drive down Big Beaver, I can't help but think what downtown would have been like if all those towers had been build there instead of Troy.
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Digitaldom
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Username: Digitaldom

Post Number: 440
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 24.192.148.150
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The same can be said about Southfield.. They have even more tall buildings than Troy does.. by far..
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 2354
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That unbuilt Book Tower looks like crap without a fire escape.
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1131
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

could you imagine the costs today of building a building that tall today out of lime stone or concrete??? Theres a reason most of the skyscrapers today are made from glass and steel...
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 168
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.212.228.166
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Companies like Exxon or Wal Mart that make BILLIONS per quarter could easily afford it, dont let the "modern" costs of building materials fool you.


Companies are just less interested in their HQ's being bold and permenant because most companies aren't run by family members anymore.


You dont have Carnegies, Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, or McCormicks anymore. Now we have globally run an operated corporations that have new CEO's every other decade or so and have less stability and desire to maintain or even create a strong lasting image.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4131
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.157
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 10:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yep, Corporations are controlled by BONDHOLDERS, SHAREHOLDERS, AND STOCHOLDERS. He who has these kinds of Liquid assets and liquid commercial papers. have the companies. For far as I know The Ford Motor Company (NOW A CORPORATION) still has the Ford Family calling the shots. They got the most shares in the stock market therfore they can't be out. Not even Board of Directors can't kick him out unless he's corrupt.
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 165
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 11:23 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They can remove Bill Ford from his position as CEO, but they couldn't remove the Ford family's controlling interest.
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Dougw
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Username: Dougw

Post Number: 1144
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 136.2.1.101
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny is my financial advisor.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2110
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.55
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 4:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Ford family's class B shares of Ford stock will retain a constant 40% of the total Ford stock voting rights (Class A and B), unless they go below a certain threshold of class B stock ownership (can't remember the threshold).

I don't know the comparison between class A total dollar value, and class B total dollar value, but it could be something like 90% (A) to 10% (B).
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Bussey
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Username: Bussey

Post Number: 169
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.212.228.166
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:38 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

weren't we talking about building standards?


i love tangents
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4137
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.162
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 11:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Focusonthed,

NO! the Board of Directors can't remove him out of the company unless he's corrupt! Him and his family still have power over the stocks. It was all of Henry Ford's family secret plan to keep the generation of his family in the company. Henry Ford in fact didn't want his company going kaput! So he make sure that his family maintain his company shares in the stock market and have ABSOLUTE POWER as the PHARISEES over the company. If the Ford Family losses the shares in the stock market. Then the Board of Directors can KICK the Ford family out of the company. Sometimes mom and pop in the corps. can't be out unless there are no more stocks.
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Tkelly1986
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Username: Tkelly1986

Post Number: 68
Registered: 01-2004
Posted From: 69.212.3.168
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 2:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

where would I get that book "unbuilt detroit", I am very interested and looked on Amazon.....I live in chicago so cannot go to Pure Detroit, so this could be a tougher item to aquire.
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Andyguard73
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Username: Andyguard73

Post Number: 58
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.42.80.245
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 6:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was wondering that too tkelly. I work at the reference library at CMU and tried to find it. I even enlisted one of the historical librarians who specializes in Michigan history and we couldn't find a thing about it, other than mentions on this site and over on skyscraperpage. Very frustrating.
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Hamtramck_steve
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Username: Hamtramck_steve

Post Number: 2961
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 71.148.29.71
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 7:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's not a book; it was the Detroit Free Press Sunday magazine from October 27, 1991. Try calling the Freep or John Gallagher.
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7even
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Username: 7even

Post Number: 11
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 198.109.26.18
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The other day I heard that the Ren Cen was originally designed to be put where Compuware is now. I am not sure if this is just the tower, or all buildings. I am guessing just the tower. I also heard when the buildings were put on the river site they did not change the design at all. Does anyone have any info on this? Is this true?
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Rrl
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Username: Rrl

Post Number: 521
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 209.181.212.60
Posted on Tuesday, June 06, 2006 - 7:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doubt it. RenCen was constructed mid-70's. True the Kern block was gone at that time(where CWare stands), but Hudsons was still there, and occupied. Me-thinks it would've been tough to shoe-horn the RenCen onto that site.

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