Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Royal Oak Township Disappearing...? Previous Next
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3709
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.167.182.114
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 5:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I remember Royal Oak Township being discussed months and months ago, but just noticed SEMCOG's estimates for the area that have me worried and wondering if there will even be a Royal Oak Township come 2010.

I say this because the official population in 2000 was 5,466, while SEMCOG has it estimated at just 2,660 as of this month. That's a 51.2% drop! While it is definitely a small area, I don't think I've seen anything approaching that drop over the past 6 years.

What's going on in RO Township? Where is everyone going, and is there anything being done to address this? This loss isn't due to annexation of part of it by a surrounding city does it?
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Detroitman
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Username: Detroitman

Post Number: 976
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 216.78.33.31
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 7:56 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A big part of that loss for Royal Oak Township comes from the fact that Oak Park annexed most of the township's north end back in 2004. Due to this annexation, Oak Park's population jumped from 29,793 in 2000 to 31,360 as of this month. Here's an article from 2004 discussing the issue:
http://www.dailytribune.com/stories/102504/loc_township25001.shtml

(Message edited by DetroitMan on May 13, 2006)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3712
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.167.135.133
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 9:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you. That is one thing I was considering, though, I had remembered hearing about an annexation. That explains everything.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3814
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 1:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, there was an area around Greenfield and Lincoln Rd. which was still RO Twp. The population change has nothing to do with the black community along W. Eight Mile Rd.

jjaba.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3713
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.167.135.133
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 1:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't figure it did, which is why I found it odd you bring it up. Anyway, How many pieces of this former township are left, or is it contigous, now that the other part has been annexed?
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 651
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.248.80.250
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 1:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

only one part now.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2101
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 69.14.41.218
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The part of RO Twp that was near Greenfield & Lincoln (10 1/2 Mile Rd.) included some high rises, Lincoln Apts. and Crowne Pointe Office Tower. Not sure if the Lincoln Shopping Center was a part of this (Bread Basket Deli, Book Beat, etc). But RO Twp. lost their major taxpayers when Oak Park annexed this part of the township.

(Message edited by Gistok on May 14, 2006)
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Patrick
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Username: Patrick

Post Number: 3407
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.209.178.39
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 5:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ghetto
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3714
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.167.135.133
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 7:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok, as I'm not too familiar with this particular area, is it possible that the other part of the township may be annexed? Do they provide any real services that will suffer because of the annexation of a major part of its land back in a few years ago?
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 652
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.248.80.250
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 8:02 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no one would want the part left of RO township. My Gf lives a few blocks away and from looking at it its only project/hud houses and slab homes, ohh and strip mall(newer krogers) on wyoming and 8 mile.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3715
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.167.135.133
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, with most of the inner ring having shrinking populations, it actually makes since to incorporate these last few rouge pieces of land. It's only a temporary solution as Royal Oak Township was shrinking, anyway, but offsetting population loss nonetheless.
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Hornwrecker
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Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1152
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.80
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 9:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been looking around the web for anything on ROT, but came up with bupkis so far, so will go to what little I have.

This is from a 1964 Pure Oil map which best shows the areas of ROT in yellow.

ROT 1964

This is a 1949 aerial or South ROT, not exactly sure if I got the Eastern boundary correct.

aerial ROT

I decided to see what was there in the 1930s and came up with this surprise proposed road connecting the two parts. It is labeled as Sunset, highlighted in purple. If you look at the 64 map you can see two short segments of Sunset, disjointed, in Oak Park.

1930s ROT

The proposed street plan for the whole Westside of ROT is different from what was built.
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7051
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Username: 7051

Post Number: 7
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.212.51.57
Posted on Sunday, May 14, 2006 - 10:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most of southeast Oakland county was Royal Oak Twn. at one time. Except for the small towns of Royal Oak, Ferndale, etc. the area was ROT (36 sq. miles approx.)
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4126
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.162
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

R.O.TWP Will disappear in the next 50 years to either Oak Park or Ferndale.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7399
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

no one would want the part left of RO township. My Gf lives a few blocks away and from looking at it its only project/hud houses and slab homes, ohh and strip mall(newer krogers) on wyoming and 8 mile.




So is this a case of leaving the poorest areas to fend for themselves while the wealth or middle class just jumps to another city?

Pretty typical SE Michigan attitude of separating themselves from the problems so those left behind can deal with them.

So an already poor RO township is now that much worse off?
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 653
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.248.80.250
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:35 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its only my opinion but I dont think ferndale or oak park would want to annex it. People who live there can go to ferndale schools, and they can attend OCC on the cheap. So I "guess" thats a bonus.
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3823
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, this makes for some diversity at Ferndale Schools. Children have a right to an education and Ferndale is an excellent school system. This little black enclave was built as a plat for wartime workers in the 1940s. The plat backs right up to the Ferndale High School. On the Detroit side of W. Eight Mile Rd., a similar little black neighborhood developed.

jjaba.
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Fishtoes2000
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Username: Fishtoes2000

Post Number: 99
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 69.14.26.135
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I'm not mistaken, Detroit could also attempt to annex the Township. I'm not saying it's a good idea, just adding spice to the conversation.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2104
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.90.174
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 3:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the great maps Hornwrecker. It's always cool to see old maps, and how things have or have not (Sunset St.) changed.

Now that I see the map, the northern part of the township did not include the Lincoln Shopping Center. It included the one 6 story office building (Crowne Pointe), the tall Lincoln Apts. and a a few large complexes of 2 story appartment buildings. There was no retail in that former section of the township between I-696 and Lincoln along the east side of Greenfield Ave. Oak Park did get the "crown jewels" of the RO Township.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3721
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.172.142
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 6:03 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only thing I could see saving the Township of Royal Oak is what saved the remaining 5 fragments of Lansing Township. Up until a few years ago, Lansing Township was 5 non-contiguous pieces of land scattered in and around the City of Lansing. It was losing population rather quickly, and it was making less and less sense, by the day, to remain a separate municipality. Then, just a few years ago one parcel, the most underdeveloped and industrial one of them, landed a huge "lifstyle center" mall, Eastwood Towne Center. Since then, this very popular mall pulling in people from East Lansing, Lansing and beyond has be responsible for quite a few spinoff businesses, and the development of the Lansing Township "Downtown" Development Authority. This has pumped huge monies into the townships coffers allowing them to offset the loss in household taxes from people moving out of the township.

The difference I see here is that there doesn't seem to be any room left to do something of the same in Royal Oak Township, and it really makes less since by the day for them to remain an independent entity. What are your guys' thoughts on the future of this last piece of the township?
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Jjaba
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Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3832
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.160.138.107
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tis up to the people who live there.
jjaba.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3723
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.172.142
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sure is, though I can't see those left having in civic pride in the Township of Royal Oak. lol Where is the township hall, just wondering? Also, who is the township supervisor?

(Message edited by lmichigan on May 15, 2006)
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 654
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.248.80.250
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The township hall is on wyoming just north of 8mile. ALL up wyoming is projects/hud houses (not sure of the classification). The township ends when wyoming changes name to Rosewood.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4127
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.157
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 10:02 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back then in the 1800s after Oakland Co was incorporated. It was divided into to 2 main townships. Pontiac in the north and Royal Oak in the south. In the by 1860 the south portion on Royal Oak TWP. was used as a Underground Railroad station for freed Negroes. And then it bacame Oakland County's first black settlement. Pontiac became 2nd.

By the 1920s while Detroit became the auto captal of the U.S. The black settlement of R.O. TWP. grew just a bit. White settlers from Detroit and other cities also came to R.O.TWP. to begin inner ring suburban sprawl. Since most of the white settlers don't want to mingle with the black settlement along the border of 8 Mile Rd. drastics measures took place and the suburbs of Ferndale, Oak Park, Pleasant Ridge, Huntington Woods, City of Royal Oak, Hazel Park, And Madison Heights were incorporated and it away from Royal Oak TWP. Other suburbs of Southfield, Lathurup Village, Farmington Hills, Farmington, Novi, Wixom, Beverly Hills, Franklin, Birmingham, Clawson, Walled lake, Lyon TWP, South Lyon, Commerce TWP., West Bloomfield TWP., Bloomfiled Hills already broke away from Royal Oak TWP. earlier. When modern suburban sprawl took place and the white flight from Detroit begin. Housing restrictions kept blacks from buying any homes anywhere including all Oakland County suburbs.

What's left of the R.O. TWP resides along the covered black communities along 8 Mile Rd. and the other once white now moslty Hasidic Jewish community along Greenfield and 10 Mile Rd. Until 2002 while R.O. TWP. suffered financial problems, The white and Hasidic Jewish community of R.O. TWP. along 10 mile and Greenfield Rd. want to break away and to be annexed to Oak Park. The People of Oak Park voted yes and the northern portion of R.O. TWP. is NOW part of Oak Park. Then in 2004 The apt. complex of of R.O. TWP. want to be annexed to Oak Park. The people of Oak Park voted yes and it NOW part of Oak Park.

Today R.O. TWP. on one of the Oakland County's Black ghetto. Mayor of White Detroit L.B. Paterson continue to ignore the area that it doesn't even exists in his mind. And other white suburban communities that surrounds that small black ghetto used it as a natural demacation wall to keep tham out of their hard working neighbohoods.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2109
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.55
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 4:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny, a perfect sized Township is 6x6 mile area or a maximum of 36 miles. Based on the number of towns that you just mentioned RO Township would have to have been over 100 square miles. I know of no township that was ever that large??

(Message edited by Gistok on May 16, 2006)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3731
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.232
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:31 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, the rules kind of change in the UP where there are larger and more irregular shapped townships, but you are right about the ones in Lower Michigan. They have have to be 6 x 6 if possible.
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Treelock
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Username: Treelock

Post Number: 117
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 68.77.166.98
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:44 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no for Royal Oak Township to continue to exist. The only question remaining is, who will annex the remaining portion?
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30th_street
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Username: 30th_street

Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 12:52 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Danny where did u get the Underground Railroad info? With that kind of significance folks should be moving forward to save what's left of the township.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2111
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.129.199
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 1:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You're right about the Upper Peninsula Lmichigan... otherwise there would be a hell of a lot of unpopulated townships, except for Flora and Fauna!
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Steelworker
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Username: Steelworker

Post Number: 656
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.248.80.250
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 2:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As I stated before no city would want to annex the rest. (My opinion)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3737
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.232
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 3:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, you've made that pretty clear quite a few times, but I don't think it's realistic, as someone will eventually annex it for the population, or to drive out the poor and turn it into some giant suburban office park/shopping center lifestyle area to pad their tax base. lol
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Cmubryan
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Username: Cmubryan

Post Number: 266
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 9:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I might be wrong but I thought that Bloomfield Township was another original township that was eventually incorporated to Bloomfield Hills, Southfield, Franklin, Birmingham, West Bloomfield, etc.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4133
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.162
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok,

A township doesn't have to be 6x6 square miles. There are some U.S. states that had townships that are bigger than Detroit. Like I wrote to all you before When Oakland Co was incorporated in the early 1800s. it had 2 divided townships Pontiac and Royal Oak. So therefore, up until the mid 1800s Pontiac and Royal Oak TWP. was way bigger than Detroit. If you want to read more about suburban townships READ THE DETROIT ALMANAC.
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Ro_resident
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Username: Ro_resident

Post Number: 162
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 10:22 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found a map of Oakland County from 1872. You can see the original township names:
http://www.memoriallibrary.com /MI/Oakland/PLATS/1872oakland. htm
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4136
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.162
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 11:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is a good map of 1872 Oakland County It's amazing that Avon TWP. is now Rochester Hills.

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