Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 LA, an overglorified Detroit? Previous Next
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 322
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I think about LA I often wonder other than the nice weather and the celebs (who are lame anyway) what is really the difference between here and the LA area. It's all sprawl, most people don't live in LA proper, the downtown is on the rebound, they have Big Boy and are all about cruising in muscle cars to Big Boy. At least the people are nicer here. We both even have a Beverly Hills.
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Detroit_stylin
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Username: Detroit_stylin

Post Number: 2684
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.236.144.252
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 2:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Their crime is far higher than ours plus they have a TREMENDOUS gang problem...
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 994
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 3:12 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been down down to LA a couple times. Spent most of our time in Santa Monica or Manhattan/Hermosa Beach.

We drove through downtown LA on our way down. Stopped downtown since 101 goes right by it. It was 3pm on a Friday. The place was DEAD. There were more people walking the streets than you see in Detroit at about the same time of day, but I expected to see a Chicago-like display of people. The city of LA itself is like 3.5 million people, and the metro is something like 15 million! But downtown doesn't fulfill the downtown image I had in my head of a huge huge city.

So yea, it is pretty much all sprawl, though I don't know if it has a much of a rotting core like Detroit. Lots and lots of sprawl, but everything is filled in.

Never been a big LA fan, ever.

The other time I had my expectations let down was when I went to Houston for a wedding. Friday afternoon. Same thing. Downtown was dead. 4th largest city in the US. Tons of growth. Sprawl and strip malls there too.

Unfortunately, I think it is really "new" growth vs "old city". Most growth in the US is going to be like LA or Phoenix, or Atlanta, or Houston. Not New York, Chicago, San Francisco, or Seattle. I would classify Detroit as an old city, and I think if it had continued to grow like the "new" cities it would remain more like Chicago or NYC. But the disinvestment and population loss is more what killed it.

Unfortunately I think most people prefer the type of life and living of a 'new' city. Where they can drive everywhere. Its become the new way of American life.

About the only thing that I think can save it is if fuel costs to commute become so huge that it becomes worthwhile to have everything close together again.

The only reason NYC, Chicago, SF, etc didn't end up like LA/Phoenix/Houston is because they all experienced their huge population booms BEFORE the time of the freeway and automobile.

I've never been a fan. Probably never will be. Detroit is set up to be the "old" city I like, but it needs more population to do it.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3717
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.167.135.133
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 3:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Their crime, city proper, is not "way more" than Detroits. I'd venture to say that LA's worst crime areas are worst than Detroit's worst, but LA's overall violent crime rate is significantly lower if I remember right.

I do see a good few similarities between the cities, though.

(Message edited by lmichigan on May 15, 2006)
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Wolverine
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Username: Wolverine

Post Number: 153
Registered: 04-2004
Posted From: 24.231.201.120
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 3:35 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since my sister lives in L.A. I have visited more often. Their downtown definitely has the feel of Detroit. Some nice glass skyscrapers surrounded by historic office buildings with high vacancy rates, along with a weak retail sector just hanging on. It felt way to familiar being in downtown LA.
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Ltorivia485
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Username: Ltorivia485

Post Number: 2645
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 199.74.87.98
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 3:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The worst neighborhoods in LA are far worse than those in Detroit. There's a reason why they renamed South Central LA to "South LA."
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 95
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.33.56.156
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 6:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

two differences:
1. the ocean
2. the mountains
Both offer a variety of activities.
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Jjw
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Username: Jjw

Post Number: 96
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 68.33.56.156
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 6:38 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just realized another major difference: home prices
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Detroitduo
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Username: Detroitduo

Post Number: 645
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 194.138.39.52
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 6:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hate L.A. and pretty much agree with what has been said here.

Hate Houston. Major difference between Houston and Detroit is Houston keeps expanding it's city border and incorporating the new suburbs into the City limits, thus as the people continue to move out, they get captured again. If Houston could not do this, it would be Detroit's southern sister city.

While I hate both of these cities, but love Detroit, the major difference is (for me) that Detroit has the "old" feel of a city (even though it's decayed). Regardless, all 3 cities require driving and I hate that the most.
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Ron
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Username: Ron

Post Number: 128
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.79.226
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not an expert in the annexation process, but from what I hear on this forum, and from other sources, it does appear that the fastest growing cities in the country are growing through this process. Is this true also for Vegas, Phoenix, etc.?

This raises the question that, even if Detroit does regain residents, up to several hundred thousand, will we be able to keep pace with the cities that are busy annexing their neighbors? If not, would we ever be able to return to the top ten largest cities?

I do agree with the statement re: the cost of gas being the only way "old" cities will see a rebirth.

Anyone have any ideas?
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 974
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think Detroit needs to think about trying to stay in the top ten. Instead, it needs to on basic services and building up the neighborhoods, and fixing the schools. Attracting jobs would help the people living here, but that is a reality all over Michigan right now.
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Mind_field
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Username: Mind_field

Post Number: 561
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.240.205.61
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I visited LA for the first time a few weeks ago, and the only similarities that I can think of are crime, sprawl, and car culture. AND THAT'S IT. I used to "hate" LA for it's materialism, excessive sprawl, and lack of urbanity, but after my visit I was smitten by the city, it really is beautiful and world class.

And there are so many differences between us and LA it would be a grave mistake to call LA "Detroit with palm trees". Real estate is so much more expensive. The topography and climate are very different. Angelinos are very diverse and tolerant, if a little concieted. LA is so huge, metropolitan regions like the valley, Inland Empire, and Orange County are like nations unto themselves. LA has so many centers, each dense and bustling, that could put any metro Detroit suburb to shame.

People come from all over the world to visit and live in LA, while people want to leave metro Detroit.
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Dannaroo
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Username: Dannaroo

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.254.56.226
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:40 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I've been down down to LA a couple times. Spent most of our time in Santa Monica or Manhattan/Hermosa Beach.

We drove through downtown LA on our way down. Stopped downtown since 101 goes right by it. It was 3pm on a Friday. The place was DEAD. There were more people walking the streets than you see in Detroit at about the same time of day, but I expected to see a Chicago-like display of people.




I was out in Los Angeles area in late April/early May and would have to say that I actually never saw the downtown area dead during the afternoons. Anywhere within about a 5 to 10 block radius of Union Station seemed to be consistently busy.

As far as what makes LA different than Detroit, besides the obvious ones (geography, huge population differences, climate) I would say that the whole LA area has a drastically better public transportation system (still not but a lot better than Detroit) and it actually gets utilized.

Another difference is that the tourist attractions within the city remain busy and are a large draw for outsiders to come and see (Hollywood area attractions, Getty Museum...)
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Bob
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Username: Bob

Post Number: 976
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 9:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And LA's mass transit system (at least the light rail portion) have been built recently, trying to help LA crazy amounts of highway traffic.
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Wirt
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Username: Wirt

Post Number: 22
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 64.243.32.9
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After living both in Downtown Detroit and Los Angeles (5 years), I can say that in general, LA was far more dangerous. I would hear gun shots almost every night, police helicopters hovering over my neighborhood about once a week, guns pointed in my face on several occasions, and would always seem to find myself behind police with their guns drawn pointing at the 'bad guys' hoping the bad guys don't miss and hit me!
I lived in the Mid-Wilshire / Koreatown neighborhoodfor 2-1/2 years where the Salvadoran MS gang was fighting for control of the 'powder cocaine' trade. Walking or driving down your own street was too dangerous except when the city would blockade the street for months at a time or a movie was being filmed. Car jacking originated in LA also based on personal experience. ...Otherwise there are alot of car- based similarities between LA and Detroit.
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7397
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Their crime is far higher than ours plus they have a TREMENDOUS gang problem...




From 2004 FBI Stats (all crime - property and violent):

Detroit (per 100,000 residents): 8019.7
LA (per 100,000 residents): 4347.4

Violent crime only:

Detroit (per 100,000 residents): 1740.4
LA (per 100,000 residents): 1107.3

Detroit is higher in violent crime and much, much higher in property crime.

Density:
Detroit - 6500/Square mile (using 900K)
LA - 7878/Square Mile (using 2000 census data)

Surprising to see LA is more population dense than Detroit. I would not have guessed that.
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Lt_tom
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Username: Lt_tom

Post Number: 85
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.0.106.126
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:09 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LA's downtown is not a 24 hour downtown, although lately there have been a lot more loft/condo projects. Home prices are pretty expensive...its more expensive to buy a house in Watts LA than it is to buy in Novi. Mind_field hit the nail on the head.
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Lt_tom
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Username: Lt_tom

Post Number: 86
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.0.106.126
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Huntington Beach, Costa Mesa, Anaheim, Long Beach, and Santa Ana all have higher pop. density than Detroit too.
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Superaygun
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Username: Superaygun

Post Number: 451
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 65.196.52.227
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i'm not surprised LA is more populous than Detroit. i too visited for the first time a couple of weeks ago and the view from the plane blew my mind--not ONE empty field or space, just one giant clusterfuck of a city. i agree there was a certain Detroit feel, but our people must be nicer; a gentleman at Amoeba Music asked me where i was from after a short conversation, and when i asked him how he knew i was from out of town he said, "Because you're nice." but i loved it; i felt at home there.
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Dialh4hipster
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Username: Dialh4hipster

Post Number: 1608
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.187.234
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LA is a little like Detroit, except for outstanding weather and you can find cool shit everywhere you go. I mean REALLY cool places, and practically EVERYWHERE.

There's no driving around on a Sunday afternoon wondering what the hell to do, and where all the people are.

And I say this as a critic of LA - I really don't like it much. But if you are going to draw a parallel between Detroit and LA, I've got to say LA makes sprawl work a little better than we do.
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Dannaroo
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Username: Dannaroo

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.254.56.226
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Surprising to see LA is more population dense than Detroit. I would not have guessed that.




When I was out there I was surprised by the overall density in the city proper and the suburns. I expected the entire area to be strip mall after strip mall and one giant parking lot, but that just wasn't the case.

And for Superaygun, Amoeba Music might be one of the best record stores I have ever been in... anywhere! Awesome used selection!
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Danindc
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Username: Danindc

Post Number: 1471
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.100.158.10
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Unfortunately I think most people prefer the type of life and living of a 'new' city. Where they can drive everywhere. Its become the new way of American life.




Who did you ask?
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Spacemonkey
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Username: Spacemonkey

Post Number: 21
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 63.102.87.27
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's culture and a ton of fun things to do in L.A. unlike Detroit. There's also opportunity; like jobs and stuff.
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Shave
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Username: Shave

Post Number: 1167
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 198.30.81.2
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why is it that Detroiters are always comparing themselves to other happening places? Is it to stroke an overly bruised ego? Is it because Detroit has lost its significance in the grand scheme of things? Inquiring minds want to know!
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Chitaku
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Username: Chitaku

Post Number: 325
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.43.107.72
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ijust thought the region was set up the same, thats all/
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2448
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:42 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Setting aside weather, flora and topography, the pre war parts of LA are very similar to the pre war parts of Detroit. They both boomed and sprawled similarly (LA because of geography sprawled much further out even back then but the similarities remain). The prewar commercial and industrial areas feel very much like most of the similar aged Detroit areas did up until very recently. Further if you go into some of the older neighborhoods in LA they have a VERY familiar evacuated feel (worn out churches on their 3rd or 4th tenant, once tidy little slice of american apple pie bungalows now bunkered and occupied by tenants way down the economic food chain, once bustling mfg. areas cinderblocked fortresses). The POST war demographic and economic divestment of much of these the older areas of LA were very similar to Detroit at about the same time as in Detroit. These parts of LA exist not only in a large cluster in East LA and Downtown but fingers extend all over the LA area sometimes as weird little islands here and there amidst the overgrowth of subsequent booming sprawl and redevelopment.

There are three huge differences tho. (1) Immigration. LA continued to attract large numbers of immigrants POSTwar while metro Detroit went flat in ~ the mid 50's. This had two effects (1a) kept population in the older neighborhoods and (1b) Vitality: LA is a churning thriving boiling roiling metropolis. (2) LA sprawl did not cost the city population or tax base since LA (city) also reached deeply into the then empty Valley (kinda like if Detroit also included macomb county and/or wayne county west to Brighton). (3) LA wears its scar tissue and tumors well with combinations of good humor, callous disregard, casual disdain etc. in metroDetroit it seems to me that the scar tissue has become necrotic both physically and culturally which has affected the entire metropolis.

Yay Detroit! Yay LA!

(Message edited by rustic on May 15, 2006)
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10072
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:52 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is a fine example as to why the crime statistics are unfair towards Detroit.

Detroit = 143 sq miles
LA = 469 sq miles

The area included is over 3x the size of Detroit. How can this possibly be a fair comparison? If we included the surrounding suburbs in both our population AND sq miles to put us on par with LA, how watered down would our per capita stats be then?
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Jt1
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Username: Jt1

Post Number: 7400
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 198.208.159.19
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sport - The crime stats above are per 100,000 residents. Normalized so that land area isn't taken into account.
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Tayshaun22
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Username: Tayshaun22

Post Number: 158
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.14.101.116
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 2:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread, but LA has a HUGE problem with Mexicans moving into Black hoods. Many of the Black hoods in South Central, Compton, and Watts are now 80-90% Mexican. Some major turf wars are developing and their crime rate is most likely going to rise.
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Lt_tom
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Username: Lt_tom

Post Number: 87
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 144.147.1.66
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 4:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mexicans are moving into formerly black neighborhoods as blacks move into the rapidly developing Inland Empire and High Desert/Antelope valley.
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Superaygun
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Username: Superaygun

Post Number: 452
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 68.42.181.216
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 4:56 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ohhh Dannaroo, we couldn't tear ourselves away from Amoeba the whole trip! had i known i'd have money left over after the trip i would never have put anything back...*sigh* i would MOVE there just to shop at Amoeba! LOL
(sorry to derail the thread a little...back to our regularly scheduled program)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3720
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.172.142
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 5:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tayshaun, who is that a "problem?" That is, unless you are what I think you are.

Anyway, it should be no surprise that LA is larger (in both size and population), more dense, and more cosmopolitan. Los Angeles is to the west coast what New York City is to the east coast, though too a slightly lesser extent. LA is an international city that has no rival on the west coast, and in many regards is now America's "Second City," though Chicago still symbolically holds that title. Metropolitan LA is actually more dense than Metropolitan NY as it has less room to sprawl because of physical boundaries. People also tend to forget that LA is a HUGE entry point for immigrants (like NYC), and far more diverse than Detroit (either city proper or metro): about 47% white, 11% black, 16% Asian, 26% other and mixed, and of that about 50% if ethnically hispanic.

Comparing Detroit to LA is like comparing apples to oranges, even though they do have some key similarities in key areas, it's not enough to overshadow the vast differences.
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Johnnny5
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Username: Johnnny5

Post Number: 246
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 71.227.95.4
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 5:58 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For once I agree with Supersport. (Damn I can't believe I just typed that). If Detroit's suburban population was included in the per 100,000 numbers (Like much of it is in LA) the crime rate may even be lower than that of L.A.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 69
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.213.66.101
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

San Francisco is to the West Coast what NYC is to the East...

I think that LA will be to the West Coast what Detroit has become to the East. The only reason that LA isn't hurting now is because of tourism/the movie industry. Besides tourism, the parallels are striking.

LA = Detroit + tourists
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Focusonthed
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Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 163
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LA is a lot more dense than people give it credit for, as was said, due to the geography. However, it doesn't touch NYC, SF, and most Chicago neighborhoods.
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Barnesfoto
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Username: Barnesfoto

Post Number: 1987
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.2.149.5
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

huh? LA is not hurting because hundreds of thousands of people want to live in LA and hundreds of thousands move there each year. That's a significant difference from the trickle of people into the CBD and SWD.
The downtown, once largely empty like ours, has seen a huge influx of loft developments filling up older buildings with residents. Those older buildings sat largely empty for years, although in LA you can rent out your empty buildings/houses/etc for film shoots.
Development of the subway/light rail also continues. One can take a train from just outside LAX to downtown and all the way up to Pasadena. Next line being built goes to East LA, and in ten years or more, there will be a subway under Wilshire going to Santa Monica. Imagine the mess when they try to tunnel thru the La Brea Tar Pits! Uck!
And as someone noted earlier, there are no empty lots, and few, if any, abandoned buildings. Even space under the freeways gets rented out.
Crime is present everywhere, but there's some serious gangbanging concentrated in Compton, West South Central (aka "South Los Angeles-a more accurate term btw) Pico/Union and Watts. Parts of South Central and Watts have seen a shift from black to Latin American residents. That's not a problem, it's simply change.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3722
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.172.142
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Some of you obviously don't know anything about LA's economy to simply equate the film industry and tourist with it's whole economy. While those are chunks of the economy LA is also built heavily upon international trade, it has one of the largest ports in the country (coupled with Long Beaches), and is the largest manufacturing center in the country. People seem to forget that all but one of the major studios for the movie industry is located in Los Angeles' many suburbs (Burbank, Culver City, Glendale).
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5795
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 166.144.14.208
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:46 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We've got MUCH better air and water quality, and our people are mostly made of carbon-based components instead of silicon monstrosities.

Our weekly hip newspaper has a few other ads than plastic surgeons.

You can valet park a dirty older car here.

The cuisine isn't quite as fresh in average restaurants, though. LA has that short drive from the central valley produce abundance.

Generally, the people in the midwest are more...genuine, or authentic...than the ones I crossed paths with in LA. There they seem to want to hang out somewhere with someone until the next best thing comes along.


Here, someone changing a flat tire will NOT back up a five-lane freeway for five miles. That or our parking lots are MUCH smaller with lower speed limits.


Outside of some of our bedrooms, the ground doesn't shake here...although my LA steady WAS the most comfortably sexual woman I've ever known. I think we're more uptight here in the midwest...I mean the rest of YOU are uptight.



Did I already mention that LA has horrible air? They actually rate it on an Air Quality Index...which obviously semantically avoids the fact that it is the LACK of quality that they are measuring. They say the average kid growing up there has lungs like a smoker by the time they are teenagers...and just this week another study came out proving asthma rates are higher there, especially for those living near freeways.



I never understood when I lived there how folks could live in an air conditioned house with closed windows...drive in their similarly closed-up cars to the same styled offices...then joyfully boast that they live near the fault line willingly because of the weather.


VERY few people that I knew regularly went to beaches unless they owned a surfboard.


LA is a very weird place...friend of mine nailed it when he said, "They MAKE TV here, but most Angelinos believe what they see on TV"...while we were sitting in a cool restaurant on Ventura Boulevard watching the very pretty people walk by.


'Who Framed Roger Rabbit' was based on a true story...GM did to LA what Ford did to Detroit...eliminating mass transit.

LA did install a subway system, and I lived a few blocks from the end of the red line in North Hollywood...and I usually was one of the few white faces on the train. I absolutely was always the only one on my Wilshire transfer bus...usually got some wicked stares whenever I used my cellphone or Palm Pilot on the bus...seemed the unspoken judgement from everyone was...'if you can afford those, why aren't you driving?'
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Adm70
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Username: Adm70

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 207.181.7.66
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:48 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I live in LA and lived Detroit for 28 years. The cities are indeed very similar, but the ratios are different. Much of LA proper is unkept, dirty and dangerous. There are some nice areas in LA county such as W LA, W Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Westwood, etc. From this area to the north is decent, but even older suburbs like Glendale and Burbank (to the east) are pretty shabby. Orange county is clean and wealthy. Inland Empire is like downriver (in terms of reputation). Next time you're in LA take the blue line from downtown to Long Beach, or take I-5 South, or drive around Mid-West LA.

Most of what people see around the country is a small piece of what the PR spinners would have the world think most of LA is like.

I was disappointed in the weather. We have June Gloom and it never really gets warm enough to swim in the ocean (downright cold at night - jacket weather - but no snow).

One major difference is that LA has done a great job of selling its image.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3725
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.172.142
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Strange and disjointed perspective, to say the least. I could never live in LA, as I'm not a big fan of it, at all. But, many Detroiter's insecurities and near total ignorance (i.e. what they see on TV, how ironic) of LA is showing quite vividly, here.
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Tayshaun22
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Username: Tayshaun22

Post Number: 161
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.14.101.116
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, what are you trying to say?

It is a very important issue in LA. Mexican gangs are moving into former Blood and Crip gang territory and it's causing a major race war. LA is steadily going downhill.

I don't have any opinion on the issue, I'm just pointing out how LA has some serious problems, just like Detroit.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3726
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 67.162.172.142
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I was trying to say that what you think is a "problem" is not a problem, at all, as the human race shouldn't be confined to any one area for whatever reason. It's called Freedom of Movement, regardless of the whole gang aspect of the situation. The problem isn't so-and-so or such-and-such moving to this place, the problem is with uncivilized persons not adhering to basic human rights, and ahering to the primitive belief of turn or territory, and I'm tired of people throwing up there hands, or being so bold as to proudly proclaim that "this is just part of life." But that's a whole other issue, and one I really don't want to get in to with you.

(Message edited by lmichigan on May 15, 2006)
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Jerome81
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Username: Jerome81

Post Number: 996
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 64.142.86.133
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are we talking Metro LA vs Metro Detroit here or Los Angeles city and Detroit city?

I ask, as it seems to me that many posts so far have mentioned things like orange county, santa monica, inland empire, burbank, etc.

You can't compare Los Angeles and include those places with only the city of Detroit. If you wanna talk Orange County and Santa Monica and compare to Detroit, you have to include Detroit suburbs as well.

City to City they are very similar. But either include the metros or don't.
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Gannon
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Username: Gannon

Post Number: 5796
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 166.144.6.111
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I forgot to mention the one thing that always amazed me about LA...when you're on the freeways, in many cases excepting all the cars clogging the lanes all around, you don't see much of the trappings of civilization that MUST just be out of sight to contain all of the people that claim to live there.

There are so many grassy hills...they really did a neat job on at least the northern freeways to disguise or hide the houses.

You feel pressure from the density of the population...doesn't matter how obscure the neighborhood, at EVERY intersection you will meet at least two other people crossing your path.


The MOST charming? During brown- and black-outs the traffic signals go down and when the power squeaks past a certain threshold, they all simultaneously switch to flashing reds.

Ain't nothing quite like being in the middle of the nastiest bee-hive of the most selfish or self-centered of humanity all trying to claim that next few inches of pavement for thier own.


The ONLY time people were pleasant and polite en masse was the three weeks after 9/11. When that wore off, they returned to their collectively awful selves...and I knew I had to get my ass back to the midwest.


Heard it was that way after the Northridge quake, too. Two to three weeks of next-door neighbors actually noticing and talking to each other (not just using rude sign language), letting folks into traffic...letting them actually change lanes...almost like civilization.



Something about the highway system turns most folks into the most passive-aggressive jerks on the planet. People will cruise at whatever speed in whichever lane on the freeway they choose...but each and every one will speed up to close the gap between them and the next car in front of them if you dare pass them on either side at any speed.


Oddly...they have three pages defining road rage in the front of their driver's handbook. I read it aloud in the hopelessness-inducing serpentine torture queue when I finally made it to the DMV...along with my basic commentary. All the English-speaking people near me were quite amused.
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Ravine
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Username: Ravine

Post Number: 70
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 70.233.3.26
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 1:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tayshaun: I, also, was wondering what Lmichigan meant by that. His response did not address the matter. Whatever it is that he Thinks You Are, he should share it with the rest of the class.
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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 182
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.148.60.142
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 1:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was going to say it until I saw that Iheartthed said it: LA = Detroit + tourists

It's not about the tourism industry holding LA's economy up. I think that today's major world cities are distinguished (from cities that are no more than large suburbs) by their three-dimensional urban districts, ethnic neighborhoods, rail transit/large transportation networks, local fashion/style, and lastly tourism -- all of which Detroit arguably has to some extent. But it's the last one that's the least apparent and the least constant, whereas it's a strong point for LA. Thus, this is also one of the most glaring differences between Detroit and Chicago.

Downtown LA during the weekend is dead, perhaps deader than downtown Detroit, and walking through its (gated) surface parking lots just to get around is physically and mentally exhausting. Although they recently built a subway and light rail network, the system is still only lightly used and still far from comprehensive -- there's a good change it won't take you where you want to go. As a tourist my advice would be to figure out where you're going first because downtown probably isn't it, and to rent a car because a train probably won't take you there. Also, as others have said, try not to breathe too much of the air while you're in town.

I do think they are similar in many ways though (strong car culture, medium densities, large black populations, older cities developed around streetcar systems, decentralization, place names emblematic of an industry.. the main thing is that they're old, large cities that have spread out as opposed to new, large cities that were always sparse.)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3735
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.189.232
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 1:42 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not sure what you mean by "large black population" as percentage wise, they make up less of LA than the national average. This is really a misconception. People see south LA, and get confused. They only make up 11 percent of the population, just below the national average.
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Mrchills
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Username: Mrchills

Post Number: 23
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 69.215.206.67
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 9:27 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can't believe you people are even comparing Detroit to Los Angeles, TOO FUNNY!!!

LA = Detroit + tourists??? Give me a break!!! Have you even been in LA?

With the exception of comparing crime, there are NO OTHER COMPARISSIONS between Detroit and LA.

The people, economy, industry, geography, weather, etc... Just about EVERYTHING differs betweeen the two cities.

Stop dreaming
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Rustic
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Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2474
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 4:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

one BIG difference between LA and Detroit:

http://www.latimes.com/news/lo cal/la-me-exotic17may17,0,5168 116.story?page=1&coll=la-home- headlines
(courtesy of Drudgereport)
Chasing Exotic Cars Is Their Pursuit
A youthful crew of enthusiasts stalk the Westside, filming high-end autos.
By David Pierson
LA Times Staff Writer

May 17, 2006

Spyder Dobrofsky, his younger brother and four friends tumbled out of his mother's Ford Explorer on a recent Sunday morning in Beverly Hills, sprinting down Rodeo Drive with video cameras in hand.

They were on a reconnaissance mission, and it didn't take them long to find what they were looking for.

"Oh, Turbo! Porsche 911 Turbo!" said Spyder, 14, lifting his camera to film the sports car.

Then another boy shouted from behind, "Bentley! Bentley! Flying Spur!"

Before they could capture the four-door luxury sedan, another member of the team spotted a dark gray Aston Martin Vanquish heading east on Little Santa Monica Boulevard. The gangly boys in baggy T-shirts and matching buzz cuts ran to follow the $240,000 car and found it parked on Rodeo Drive outside an eyeglass store.

...

Spyder and his young cohorts have become leading chroniclers of the Westside's exotic car world. Here, the finest European sports cars Ferraris, Lamborghinis and Porsches can be found in abundance, thanks to a critical mass of celebrity, glitz and free-spending men in the throes of midlife crises. Some of them cost over $1 million and require down payments of around $400,000, and that's only if you're lucky enough to make it to the top of a waiting list.

For most car watchers, the hobby is about snapping a few photos with their cellphone cameras. But Spyder and his friends shoot videos and post them on car-watching websites like http://www.exoticspotter.com and http://www.streetfire.net where enthusiasts offer their latest sighting of a $1.4-million Bugatti Veyron.

...

It started with a video game, Sega GT, a racing simulator in which gamers can get behind such cars as an Alfa Romeo or a Lotus. The boys learned to appreciate the exotics from there. Then they'd sit on Spyder's porch in the Dobrofskys' cozy one-story Santa Monica home and shoot digital photos of the fancy cars going by. At first, a Corvette would suffice. But in this neighborhood, even Bentleys are a dime a dozen.

Now, "we only film it if it's worth over $200,000," said Spyder's 9-year-old brother, Dash.

Spyder remembers the first time he caught one of his favorite cars, a Porsche Carrera GT, a 600-horsepower monster of a two-door sports car that costs around half a million dollars. "Last summer. It was nighttime," he said like he'd seen the love of his life.

...

With Paul Bogosian and another longtime friend, Brandon Nelson, the brothers will climb trees on San Vicente Boulevard in Brentwood to film cars from above.

They'll study a driver's routine and ride their bicycles to a different location the following days to capture the same car from a different angle. They once waited four hours for a Porsche Carrera GT to appear at Montana Avenue and 14th Street.

"We'll be in math class and I'll laugh because we hear a car go by and Spyder will turn around and say, 'S430,' " Mercedes-Benz, said Paul, 14, a member of Spy-der's crew, which calls itself and a website the group's designed, "Car-parazzi."

...

...

Tippi was on Montana Avenue getting a cup of frozen yogurt last Tuesday night when she noticed a rare Ferrari Challenge Stradale parked in front of a restaurant.

She agonized over whether to ignore it or call the boys to come out even though it was close to bedtime.

She made the call, and together they staked out the restaurant until the Ferrari's owner emerged so they could film him revving up the car.

...

On Rodeo Drive that Sunday, Neal was on the lookout for new exotics as Spyder and his friends wrapped up filming the Aston Martin.

Minutes later, the boys saw a red Ferrari Spider 355 a low-to-the-ground convertible that goes from 0-60 mph in just over four seconds turn left onto Dayton Way from Rodeo Drive.

The crew sprang into action again and, as they usually do in these situations, sprinted to the object of their desires in hopes that the driver was parking or stopped at a light.

The driver of the Ferrari, a man wearing sunglasses and a black baseball cap tilted ever so slightly to the side seemed agitated by the scrutiny. So he extended his middle finger at them with the same hand he was using to hold a cellphone to his ear.

"I asked him to floor it and he said 'No,' " said Brandon Nelson, 14.

They continued to pound the Beverly Hills pavement, lurking around the Prada store, Barneys and Harry Winston's. Their persistence paid off about an hour later when a yellow Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder convertible came into view.

This was special, because the team had never filmed the rare Italian sports car.

"That was a special edition," Dash told his dad as the Lamborghini crossed Rodeo Drive.

The "Lambo" swung around again, and again. The boys whooped and hollered, hoping the driver would pull over. Instead, he stuck out his tongue, revved the engine and shattered the speed limit.

...

And for the most part, the exotic-car owners seem more flattered than annoyed by the attention.

"It's like an endorsement of their purchase in a way," Neal said.

...


Imagine THAT happening on the westside of Detroit instead of the westside of LA, lol!
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Easydoesit
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Username: Easydoesit

Post Number: 30
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 69.246.122.172
Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 - 5:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well, in comparison to buildings... the Bonaventure Hotel in downtown L.A. DOES kind of resemble the ren cen cut in half. take a look...

[IMG]http://i78.photobucket.com/alb ums/j94/piaget12/untitled.jpg[/IMG]
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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 183
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.148.60.142
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 1:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lmichigan, I did not mention ratio/percentage in reference to the black population of LA, just the sheer size of its black metropolis -- over 400k vs Detroit's over 700k. Not many cities in the US (or the world) can count over 400k, and the inherent culture it brings about. The other top cities would be NYC, Chicago, Philly, and Houston.

LA's economy, while diversified and inclusive of industries lacking in Detroit, does include a significant manufacturing component. Another similarity is that lots of international trade goes through these cities.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3751
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 4:11 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not just a significant manufacturing component, as I posted above, they claim to be the largest manufacturing center in the United States, and I really wouldn't doubt it.

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