  Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 244 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
In the mid-1950s an elderly woman and man, brother and sister that is, were found dead in their home in the Mt. Elliott and Gratiot Area. I am going to spell the woman's name phonetically -- I believe it was Emma Shoknick or Shotneck or Shutnick not exactly sure. Emma and her brother were either one of the last or the last white families in their neighborhood. The house was very run down and in need of desperate repairs. Whenever the neighbors that were all black saw Emma she was wearing clothes that looked like rags. The blacks in the neighborhood were very poor too but they felt so bad for Emma and her brother that they use to give them baloney sandwiches or whatever they could spare. The brother was a housebound invalid and Emma only went out to scrounge what she could. As it turned out Emma died before her brother and since her brother couldn’t get out and they had no phone he died, too. When someone finally got around to finding them dead it had been quite awhile since they died. When they went in the house it was so filthy, dirty and smelly that you could hardly believe people could have lived in that house. The reason I know all this is because I was a newspaper boy at the time with a Detroit Times paper route. The newspapers got a hold of this story about Emma and her brother because they started finding money, securities, gold and all kinds of other wealth in this house. They were finding dollar bills from so far back that they were the old large what they called “horse blanket bills” that were more than twice as large as today’s bills and they were Gold Certificates. They got a hint of this wealth and when they started looking they found it everywhere. They found most of it in the walls so they started tearing the walls out. When it was all said and done I believe they found over a million dollars face value but there were people that said it was worth a lot more especially for the antique and/or numismatic value. I have tried to find information about this story but without luck for many years, now. I was wondering if anyone remembers this story and has better details or information than I do so I can do more research. The newspapers had a heyday with this story because everyday the officials found more and more money. This story ran for many days and as I said it happened sometime in the mid-1950s. Thanks Livedog2 | ||
Ed_golick Member Username: Ed_golick Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.246.55.51 |
I remember my parents telling me the story in the 60s, but I always figured it to be urban legend. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 247 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I'm certain it is not "urban legend" and hopefully we will get to the bottom of it one of these days. I will continue to look and when I find out I'll post it. Livedog2  | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 105 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.42.252.205 |
Have you tried the DPL? They have the Detroit Times, Detroit News and Detroit Free Press going way back. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 249 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
The problem with that is that there is no index for news going back that far which is the mid-1950s. I have thought about a Lexis-Nexis search but I don't have a membership to that web service. And, I'm not sure those old newspaper articles have been loaded into those databases. But, if all else fails then an exhaustive search of the microfilm records maybe the only way to find it. I was just hoping that it being such a high profile story in its day that someone might remember something about it that would be helpful in a search. Picking the low hanging fruit is preferable to reinventing the wheel so to speak. How's that for mixing the metaphors? Livedog2  | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2504 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
I work with someone by the name of Schoknecht. Could that be the name you're trying to remember? | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1081 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
I am presently doing some very deep digging in the mid to late 50's. I will keep my eyes open for any info. Could you narrow down the year? that would be very helpful. Also any discription of the house would help. ie: porch, 2 stories, anything you might rememeber. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 250 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Wow Mikem that could very well be the name I am looking for. I'll have to try it out but it sure looks phonectically correct. Thank you. They wouldn't have had some relatives on the Eastside of Detroit that...naw that would be too weird if they did. Thanks again. Livedog2 | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 251 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
It would be great Psip if you could keep your eyes open for that story. I had a Detroit Times paper route when it happened so my best guess is that it probably happened between 1954-56. I don't have any information on the house other than it was very old, dilapidated and rundown. Again, I don’t have the exact facts but it seemed to that the neighborhood was around St. Bonaventure Monastery on Mt. Elliott between Gratiot and Lafayette. That’s about all I can remember going back 50 years! Anything you can find would be appreciated. If I think of anything else I'll post it. Livedog2 | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1082 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
This is a real shot in the dark, but I came across this photo today. No idea what or why, but it is from 1956.   Could this be the house??? | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 556 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
This old Detroit Times newsboy draws a blank. But keep us posted on what you find out; fascinating story. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 253 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Psip did you catch the name of the street this house is situated on? Or, any other details about the residents? I would only know about the story by the name which like I said was some derivation of Schoknecht that Mikem provided. I wonder what the ethnicity or derivation of the name Schoknecht is. Maybe that would be another angle at looking for information about the story I mentioned in the beginning of this thread. I guess looking at the obits might shed some light on the mystery. Livedog2 | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2509 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
The Schoknecht I worked with is from Milwaukee. Definately German. Wears those yellow colored sunglasses and I can easily picture him dressed in an SS uniform, riding in a side car. One of the nicest guys I've ever worked with. However, I looked through my 1940 city directory and there's not a single Schoknecht listed, so don't rely on that too heavily. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1083 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.13.131 |
Livedog2, right now, I dont have any supporting documentation. Hopefully in a few weeks, (hint,hint Hornwrecker) I might have more info. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 254 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I went to the Social Security Death Index and did a Metaphone search for the name in question and the most plausible variations I found were: SCHUKNECHT SCHOKNECHT SCHUHKNECHT SCHOKNICHT What I do know for sure is that her first name was Emma. Maybe one of those variations might show up in that 1940 city directory, Mikem. Thanks. Livedog2 | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 255 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Eureka!!!!! I found it after over 50 years of carrying this story around in my head. Thanks go out to those that participated with me on this thread by helping to spark those long dorment synapses in this old brain. :-) I was off a bit on the date and some of my facts were fuzzy but the jist of the story is all there! And, here it is: 1952: Penny Pincher's Bequest : IN OUR PAGES: 100, 75 AND 50 YEARS AGO International Herald Tribune Friday, July 19, 2002 July 19, 1952 DETROIT: A whisper from a dying spinster sent her two cousins on a treasure hunt that has yielded more than $300,000 in cash and securities. Shortly before 76-year-old Emma Schuknecht died, she put her lips close to the ear of Mrs. Tillie Stotz, a cousin. "If anything happens to me, look in the closet off the front bedroom," she whispered. Miss Schuknecht, a retired department-store drapery cutter, always had lived frugally in her shabby home, and nobody expected she had any money. Many dollar bills of the "horse blanket" variety were found in the closet just like this example:  Gold certificates of this type were also found:  I know there is more to this story in the old Detroit Times of the day. So, now I need to get the details from that rag. G-d this was a fun exercise and it never ceases to amaze me the wealth of knowledge about Detroit past and present on this forum. Thank you Lowell for starting this wonderful website! Livedog2 | ||
Broken_main Member Username: Broken_main Post Number: 1098 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 69.222.11.226 |
way to go Livedog2.... I am proud of you and I am glad you found what you are looking for. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 257 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Thanks, Broken_main! I have been searching, looking and asking for so many years that I was beginning to wonder if it was something I dreamed up. It's also a link to my distant past with my father because I remember him reading about this story and cutting the articles out of the Detroit Times. He always followed these kinds of stories about oddities concerning reclusive and/or strange people and/or occurrences. I know he cut the articles out of the Detroit Times and tacked them up in his closet with a paper clip. Time went by and then he died going on 40 years ago and I don’t know what ever happened to those news clippings. His favorite oddity newspaper clipping was one I had sent him from Vietnam. It was the front page of the Stars & Stripes Newspaper. It had a picture of a National Guard tank at the corner of our street on Gallagher and Davison in Detroit, a map of my old neighborhood in Detroit and a banner headline at the top of the page about the riots in Detroit. At the bottom of the page was an article about a search and destroy mission my Marine Corps unit was involved in in Tay Ninh near Chu Lai where my Platoon Leader and other comrades were killed in action. Please excuse the stream-of-consciousness rant! Livedog2 | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2511 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
Emma L Schuknecht saleswoman, JLHudson Co 2488 Mt Elliott Ave | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2373 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
Don't worry about your "rants" Livedog - they are fascinating. You've prompted me more than once to hunt down some obscure thoughts. When I was a child in Kalamazoo, there was a kidnapping/murder, far from our home, of a young girl. It scared the wits out of everyone, especially the parents. However, it was the only crime of its sort for a period of years before & after. Parents used to tell their kids: "Don't take a ride with strangers or you'll end up in the woods, just like Jeanie Singleton!" We never forgot it. I wondered 1. What year was that? 2. Was the crime ever solved? I found out both from the Grand Rapids Public Library, where, over the phone, they offered to do the research, copy any articles they found, mail them to me, and would trust me to mail them the $1.50/article charge! Several days later, 2 articles arrived with a handwritten note. Needless to say, such services are almost unheard of. The crime ocurred in 1956, and was never solved. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 662 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
From what I can tell from Google maps, that house still stands. http://www.google.com/maphp?hl =en&tab=wl&q= | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2512 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
I did the same thing as soon as I found the address: 2488 Mt Elliott | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 253 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 216.223.168.132 |
The internet sleuths on this website are fantastic. It's amazing. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 294 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
When I saw this thread yesterday I thought this person is looking for a needle in a haystack. Then bingo, you found it. Excellent job. Interesting story. I look forward to seeing what else you come up with. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 258 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Way to go Mikem, Karl and E_hemingway! That is some book Mikem!! I've got to try to get my son over there and get a photo of that house at 2488 Mt Elliott Ave if it's still there since I'm out-of-town on a contract assignment!!! Livedog2 | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1170 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 63.41.40.247 |
1922 Sanborn map of 2488 Mt Elliot  The street intersecting Mt Elliot at the house is Hendricks St.. Over a couple of blocks, right behind the house on Beaufait & Waterloo was the old Saxon Motors factory, formerly Abbott-Detroit. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 259 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Hornwrecker that is great! Now, all I need to do is find out what the rebbe was doing with the black satchel. Oh, that's another thread but I have some ideas. I'll run over to that other thread right now. Livedog2 in a virtual sprint for “Jews in Detroit…” thread... | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2514 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.54.94.97 |
I just drove by the house a few minutes ago. It's still there. I'll post a picture tonight. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 557 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
I can't locate Emma Schuknecht on the 1910, 1920 or 1930 census reports (There is an Emma Schuknecht on those reports, but she is married to Norton Schuknecht, a Detroit Police Inspector, and the locations and vitals don't line up at all). But I find a match in the 1900 census. Emma was born in February, 1877, is 23 at the time, and lists her occupation as "Saleslady". She is living with her parents, Fred and Ricka (?), in the home at 313 Maple St. Detroit (old numbering system). She has a 13-year old brother, Harry, born October 1886. The parents are native-born Germans, although Emma was born in Michigan. Her mother states she had four children, two of whom are deceased. I presume her failure to appear in the later census reports is because her name is likely mis-spelled, and the transcriptions require precise spelling. | ||
Wabashrr1 Member Username: Wabashrr1 Post Number: 124 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
Is there a website where one can search census reports?? | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 558 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
Wabashirr1, yeah, but it's a pay subscription site at Ancestry.com. Cost is like $200 a year, although I think there might be quarterly subs at lesser amounts. Some libraries subscribe to it; you might check yours out. I'm a genealogy nut, so the price is worth it to me. Here's 4xgt grandpa in 1820. Tell me it ain't worth it!  | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2516 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
Ray, I have a Frederica Schuknecht, widow of Frederick, also living at 2488 Mt Elliott in 1940. Must have moved in with the kids after her husband died. Looking at my 1935 directory, Emma and Frederica are both at 2488 Mt Elliott, with Emma's occupation listed as assistant forewoman, J L Hudson Co. There is also listed one Harry Schoknecht, salesman, at 2488 Mt Elliott in 1935.  | ||
Mikem Member Username: Mikem Post Number: 2517 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.43.15.105 |
My mother worked in the interior design studio of Hudson's in the late 1930s. Since the newspaper stated that Emma was a drapery-cutter, I asked my mother if she remembered this woman or this story, but she didn't; probably because drapery-cutting and similar work was performed at the warehouse and not the store. | ||
Saruthma Member Username: Saruthma Post Number: 45 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.60.160.65 |
This forum continually amazes me. | ||
Tammypio Member Username: Tammypio Post Number: 66 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 68.43.85.165 |
This was a very cool read for me. I found it all fascinating....great job getting the info! Way to go detroityes forumers! | ||
Leoqueen Member Username: Leoqueen Post Number: 1308 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
I love mysteries! This thread is fabulous! | ||
Pffft Member Username: Pffft Post Number: 921 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 69.221.93.11 |
Livedog, There are indices for newspapers going back to the '50s, and earlier. In this case you could look up the story in the Detroit News (don't think there is a Times index) and then when you found the date, look up the story on microfilm at the Detroit Public Library. I know there's a News index there. | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 260 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Awesome, Mikem! Just awesome!! And, the photo is just too good to be true. So, the house is at 2488 Mt Elliott which makes it, what – between Hendricks St. and E. Vernor Hwy just up the street from St. Bonaventure Monastery. This washes with more recollections I have that Emma and her brother use to go to the Monastery Soup Kitchen for free meals. This was one of the tip-offs to the black residents in the neighborhood that use to help Emma and her brother out from time-to-time. They use to see Emma and her brother go to the Soup Kitchen and thought for sure that they were as poor as church mice. Thanks for the tip, Pffft!!! There’s not a research staff in Corporate America or Academia that has as good a research staff as exists on this form. Ave forum members! Ad augusta per angusta. Livedog2 humbled by the effort forum members made for this thread… Thank you!  Livedog2 | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 562 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
Ok, found the family on the 1930 Census. Reason I didn't at first is because "Emma" appears as "Jessie Schuknecht". But she is living with her mother at...yup...2488 Mt. Elliott. "Jessie" states she is a "Fore-woman" at a Department Store. Found her by looking up "Frederica Schuknecht" (Thanks, Mikem!!!) Brother Harry is still in the home, single and age 43. He is a "Salesman, Flour Mill". Mother Frederica has no occupation, and she declares herself a widow. She owns the home and places a value of $8,000 on it. (Message edited by Ray1936 on May 16, 2006) | ||
Trainman Member Username: Trainman Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.12.116.204 |
Does anyone remember? When Mass Transit worked? I'm convinced that its time to privatize the city of Detroit and suburban public bus systems. Have courage and vote NO next August to defeat the SMART property tax. http://savethefueltax.org | ||
Hornwrecker Member Username: Hornwrecker Post Number: 1173 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 63.41.8.20 |
Dog, here's where the house is located (purple dot) on a 1930s map of the area. Waterloo was changed to Vernor Hwy, and a portion of that block on the south was demoed for the widening; some streets to west side of Mt.Elliot also appear to have been rearranged during change, as shown in the current aerials. ... or something like that, I keep getting it confused.  Nice to see the photo of the house and that it matches the Sanborn map, location of front porch and bay window. (Message edited by Hornwrecker on May 16, 2006) | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 261 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
Great info, Hornwrecker! It really is a great photo of the house!! I'm almost afraid to write about the two reclusive multi-millionaire brothers that came out of their lower Eastside, former mansion that had skyscrapers being built next door, as they were for the time, to scavenge for food from garbage cans. And, then one day the sighted brother that was leading the blind brother was crushed to death by the debris that was stacked to the ceiling as they were going out for one of their midnight forays for food. Sadly, the other brother starved to death because he was blind and could not find his way out of the house to get help! Is this the right city? Livedog2 with a million stories and mysteries | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 2381 Registered: 09-2005 Posted From: 68.230.22.99 |
LOL at Livedog! | ||
Livedog2 Member Username: Livedog2 Post Number: 264 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 24.223.133.177 |
I have a question for some of you that are so good with finding maps of all kinds of things “Detroit”. When I was a kid growing up on the Eastside in the Davison Ave. Jos. Campau Area I use to hear some of the old-timers say that Davison Ave. was a stream at one time before it was paved. The location of where they said the stream ran was somewhere between Conant and Jos. Campau. I think for sure it would have been in my father’s or grandfather’s day. My father was born in the 1910s so that might be a good starting point. I don’t know if these maps would show something like a stream but who knows. So, if you can put your hands on a map that would confirm that I would appreciate it. Did a stream run through it?  Livedog2 |
