Discuss Detroit Ľ Archives - Beginning January 2006 Ľ Michigan's state constitution change must be stopped ę Previous Next Ľ
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 7:10 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Constitutional amendment to raise Wayne county sales taxes will cost $270 Million dollars and an additional $100 Million dollars per year should DARTA become legal. Transit advocates want an additional $600 Million per year.

DARTA has cost over a 1,000 jobs in Livonia primarily because of False Propaganda AND Gross Incompetence.

The August election means nothing. YES or NO. It Matters Not. I can protect federal laws to stop the DARTA but it will cost. Please send e-mail if you wish to contribute.

Get the facts http://savethefueltax.org
Top of pageBottom of page

Rbdetsport
Member
Username: Rbdetsport

Post Number: 99
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.61.11.146
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 7:23 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You really have some issues. Almost every single post you have made has had that damn link. We all get the point. You support that.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3760
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 8:20 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is shameless plugging and self-promotion. Isn't this against the rules, again?
Top of pageBottom of page

Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1667
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.212.44.25
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 10:29 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman:

quote:

The Constitutional amendment to raise Wayne county sales taxes will cost $270 Million dollars and an additional $100 Million dollars per year should DARTA become legal.



Source?

quote:

Transit advocates want an additional $600 Million per year.



Source?

quote:

DARTA has cost over a 1,000 jobs in Livonia primarily because of False Propaganda AND Gross Incompetence.



Source?
Top of pageBottom of page

Pistonian_revolution
Member
Username: Pistonian_revolution

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 69.136.139.115
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 11:26 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

is it just me or does this post seems much more politically biased than most others.

i'm new to the forum. so, help me out. is this kindof political propagation appropriate? it doesnt seem like it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Rberlin
Member
Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 542
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 75.7.195.7
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 11:57 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Welcome to DY!
Top of pageBottom of page

Mountainman
Member
Username: Mountainman

Post Number: 61
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 153.90.110.121
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 12:25 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Stop save the fuel tax people from stopping the constitutional ammendment. They want to divert the funds to feed small homeless children, kittens, puppies, and bunny rabbits to fat rich conservatives. They've read Swift's Modest Proposal and haven taken things a step too far. Rumour has it they're funding Al Queada and the Nazi Party. Their murderous rampage can already be seen in Darfur. They kept their fuel tax, and rejected a regional mass transit authority there too. Stop the insanity. Stop the stop the constitutional ammendment.

Yep, that argument has about as much substance as Trainman's.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 24
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 7:59 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can see that those who posted in this thread support the state constitution amendment, so far. I don't support this change at this time or the DARTA. If our industries supported DARTA then I would remove my website. But, unfortunately the purpose of DARTA is to REPLACE state and federal money with regressive county taxes at this time and nothing more.

I back up everything I say with facts from the sources and I'm willing to go on television. I do respect everyone's point of view and very seriously want Detroit to have a truly great mass transit system. So, lets all work together on this so we can do the most with our limited transportation tax dollars to promote job growth. Jobs are the real answer to get a good mass transit system and that's a FACT.
Top of pageBottom of page

Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1669
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.215.247.206
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 9:50 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I back up everything I say with facts from the sources and I'm willing to go on television.



Okay - I believe you when you say that you're willing to go on television. However, I've repeatedly asked you for your sources and you've repeatedly failed to provide them. The web site that you link to in your posts doesn't have any sources either.

From the looks of things, you're just making this stuff up as you go along.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jsmyers
Member
Username: Jsmyers

Post Number: 1718
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 69.212.42.214
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 10:52 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

I think you are full of crap and don't really have a grasp of the issues related to transit.

You claim to support improving transit, but you want to block the state from allowing regional and county authorities to fund transit the same way they do everywhere else in the country.

This amendment isn't going to keep state or federal money out of transit. The fascists running our country and the our state legislature are doing that quite well. You are only creating confusion amoung those that oppose them so that they are more likely to get their way.

As Fnemecek said, you have no sources other than your own incomplete and twisted opinion of the motives and possibilities that surround recent transit actions.

Your ideas are like deciding to cut off your left arm in order to make you right stronger. In the end the whole person is weaker.

Jobs don't create a good transit system, but a good transit system can help develope and attract better jobs. It could also help the unemployed get to existing jobs.

Get a grip.
Top of pageBottom of page

Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1539
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 10:58 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be interesting if Trainman could actually prove that the new sales tax will replace state and federal dollars... leading to no net gain in money for mass transit.

Go ahead. Prove it.

Waiting...
Top of pageBottom of page

Ndavies
Member
Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1827
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 11:04 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The state constituion change only allows a regional sales tax. It doesn't create one. I would wait for the actual tax bills to come out before worrying about it.

I think the ability to raise these taxes is good. What we do with that ablility is what should be debated.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 25
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 4:11 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I lived in Syracuse NY in 1987, the county sales tax caused businesses to move to the next county. A large mall was built in Fulton County. Is this what we want in Wayne County? The city of Detroit has lost jobs for the same reason. I'm opposed to different sales tax rates in every county and I'm directly confronting my opponents. My website is entirely backed with many sources. I know its difficult to understand thus I want more comments. My primary goal is get multiple revenue sources for public transit because this is what works in ALL other cities that have a decent transit system and is what SEMCOG should focus on as opposed to forcing new taxes on the public, like what they did in Livonia.

One such fact is the additional $70 Million*** per year needed to operate DARTA as the reallocation of funds under the agreement makes it clear that the transit authority is responsible and not the state. The agreement is very long, so I summarize it for the public to understand. MDOT has explained openly to the public that without a regional tax or full cooperation to best use limited tax dollars that they will build more roads. The money can come from many sources. I welcome all comments and I want to be challenged because I know the facts and what needs to be done to ensure that regional taxes will work. Source *** http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/accordd.html
Top of pageBottom of page

K8cpachuck
Member
Username: K8cpachuck

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 68.40.45.171
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 4:24 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

more B.S.

get a clue ya right wing'ed piece of crap
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 26
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 8:54 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Llyn and everyone else

So, Y'all want proof? You will see the physical evidence when Livonia loses bus service. More proof is that SMART will shut down if they don't pass the property tax vote.

Property taxes have replaced state funds because SMART is not required to use them for any operating expenses unless challenged to do so. Most states have eliminated state transit funds and Michigan will join them soon because of those who do not understand basic economics and math.

My WebPages contains NO B.S. and absolutely everything is backed up with FACTS. There is not one single person who can or will challenge me. Iím well known by SEMCOG, MDOT, SMART and DDOT and they all know better then to challenge me on television or in the newspapers. Iím sure no one in DetroitYES will ever find any B.S. on my website. Iím sure of this.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dag
Member
Username: Dag

Post Number: 214
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.188.238.215
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 9:25 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valium and Lithium

Learn it, live it, love it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Shark
Member
Username: Shark

Post Number: 229
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 68.255.115.184
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 10:04 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Delusions of grandeur. Very flattering.
Top of pageBottom of page

Naturalsister
Member
Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 655
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.8.96.51
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 10:28 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Who is this guy and why would anyone be interested in him going on television?

later - naturalsister
Top of pageBottom of page

Dag
Member
Username: Dag

Post Number: 215
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.188.238.215
Posted on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 11:11 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not so fast naturalsister, some of the infomercials are strangely addicting. This guy might have as much legs on TV as Lesko.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 27
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:32 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll tell you my name and go on television. I wrote to all the top leaders and civic groups but none will debate me. It's because they saw my website which is all facts.

YES, we can have a good mass transit system. Unfortunately, our leaders just want to load their pockets up, bail-out the mistakes of our past government and retire as multi-millionaires. Then, you will never see them again. The plans (SEMCOG, framework for action) they have wonít work on purpose and are a trick to get your money.

Iím the only one who got SMART to come to Livonia AND fill the buses up and stopped the state transit cuts.

I do not care what anyone thinks of my website because I know how to fill up the buses, stop the state cuts and get federal transit grants. Maybe you wonder why our leaders do not do this. It is because they want you to drive and pay to park. Mass transit is discouraged on purpose and the state constitution change is a big hoax at this time.

County transit taxes only work where mass transit is promoted and supported by industries. This can happen right here in southeast Michigan and I explain exactly how in my website. Basically, we must connect the county seats with the airport using SMART and high technology and since Iím a computer programmer and work professionally in the transportation industry I can do this. I will do this for you, if you want me to.
Top of pageBottom of page

Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2486
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 9:44 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't know anything about this issue except that it appears Trainman is posting a decent argument.

Typical DY reaction to logic, especially if it involves new ideas:

K8cpachuck said: "more B.S. - get a clue ya right wing'ed piece of crap"

Dag said: "Valium and Lithium"

Shark said: "Delusions of grandeur. Very flattering."

I'd say hang in there, Trainman - if these folks are against you, you're probably on the right track. But don't bother trying to convice them - they're untrainable. Go around 'em and keep telling your story.
Top of pageBottom of page

Llyn
Member
Username: Llyn

Post Number: 1541
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 68.61.197.206
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 11:53 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It would be interesting if Trainman could actually prove that the new sales tax will replace state and federal dollars... leading to no net gain in money for mass transit. Go ahead. Prove it.

"So, Y'all want proof? You will see the physical evidence when Livonia loses bus service. More proof is that SMART will shut down if they don't pass the property tax vote.
Property taxes have replaced state funds because SMART is not required to use them for any operating expenses unless challenged to do so. Most states have eliminated state transit funds and Michigan will join them soon because of those who do not understand basic economics and math."

It would be interesting if Trainman could actually prove that the new sales tax will replace state and federal dollars... leading to no net gain in money for mass transit. Go ahead. Prove it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Ron
Member
Username: Ron

Post Number: 159
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 66.174.93.103
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 12:00 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Isn't Livonia losing bus service because they opted out of SMART?
Top of pageBottom of page

Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1672
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 70.227.12.185
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 12:31 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Don't know anything about this issue except that it appears Trainman is posting a decent argument.



Yeah, a real decent argument - except for the whole "trust me, I credible sources but I'm not going to tell you what they are" thing he has going on.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2129
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.164
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 2:24 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"My mind is already made up, so don't bother confusing me with the facts" KARL, did you actually spend 2 seconds and look at this guys website.... it says absolutely nothing! No background, no history, just click on here to sign a petition without any other info. Are you that blindly accepting of other peoples word, only because you like the way it sounds?

"DARTA lost 1,000 jobs in Livonia"..... who came up with that? Trainman, can you point to the source of this statement? This sure sounds like a slippery slope argument to me.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 7:21 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Karl

Thanks for the post and you are right. There are too many who are un-trainable and thatís why SEMCOG gets away with shifting tax money away from mass transit by raising local taxes. In addition, these same people are the reason our industries get away with paying low wages and getting much corporate welfare. And why the Transportation Riders United got away with passing the last SMART tax increase without any additional state and federal support or even much effort to improve service.

One comment that says that I only have a petition will help me because now I know to make the link to the facts more prominent. Itís already quite large.
Top of pageBottom of page

Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2493
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 7:33 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman (& Gistok) -

I did not go to the website - was only commenting on the tone of the responses from some who didn't post any facts.

That being said - Trainman: As a business owner, I like paying as low of wage as I can to get the job done, and done right. I don't know what you mean by "corporate welfare" but if you mean that I get tax deductions for expanding my business (employing more) buying more company cars (benefits Detroit) then I'm all for lower taxes and more "corporate welfare". I'll leave the mass transit argument to the rest of ya.
Top of pageBottom of page

Gotdetroit
Member
Username: Gotdetroit

Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 68.61.224.132
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:29 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman, I get the feeling nobody wants to debate you on Television, maybe, possibly, because you're kinda weird and creepy.

But I have to ask: Who exactly has turned down your debate overtures? Names, please. Their response would be nice also. I bet their reasons were somewhere along the lines of "you're too all knowing and powerful."

Don't be afraid to spit out some of those "facts" here on the boards. Seeing as you're trying to recruit folks to your cause, it might help if you gave them a little taste. Omniscience can be a bitch, huh?
Top of pageBottom of page

Dag
Member
Username: Dag

Post Number: 216
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.188.238.215
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:34 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

None of the facts that are listed on the site are supported, rather they are simply statements. One of the reasons I am so critical is because all statements you have made are not supported nor do you list any credentials of who you are, what studies you have done or why we should even care. Your logical analysis is poor and the logical leaps you have taken are a little breathtaking.

While you are self-important, a good reason why no one will debate you is because you are coming across as the lunatic fringe without anything to offer.

Of course this is just my two cents and I am not going to try to pass it off as fact rather just my opinion.
Top of pageBottom of page

E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 673
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 8:44 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman = Attention Whore

And I have a picture to PROVE it.

Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 29
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 9:27 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I appreciate all the responses but I took off my name temporally because of some scary responses. I donít understand why people think I make things up when in fact that over 95 percent of my website is government documents and studies from very respectable sources.

The full cost of my transit plan is fully explained and referenced. If SMART and DDOT were run like the railroads then the buses would be full and the taxpayers would be very happy to vote in more taxes. SMART officials know about the website and said that if I can get the state to pay that they would provide the 24/7 service.

Federal laws require our public transit systems to provide statistics to get transit grants as I explain but my opponents donít and use false propagandas which should be stopped because it is intimidating too many voters for no good reason.

Some of those who wonít debate me are the Transportation Riders United and top SEMCOG officials. Please contact them and ask for the statements that are not backed up with facts. Why canít anyone in this thread find them?

I care about people and Iíll be an attention whore to help people because Iím sincere and honest and have nothing to hide except to not meet anyone who is crazy like what happened to John Lennon. Notice the word Imagine on my home page.

My website is for fun and to help others and if we canít all have fun and help others then why bother? So, please keep the comments coming and think seriously about mass transit because if Detroit does not get its mass transit act together then more jobs will leave.
And thatís a fact. click on this link for proof.

http://savethefueltax.tripod.c om/smart.pdf
Top of pageBottom of page

Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1676
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 70.227.217.38
Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 10:03 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

E_hemingway:
I've seen that photo a dozen times - and I never get tired of it.
Top of pageBottom of page

Supersport
Member
Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10101
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.246.37.236
Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 10:18 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Supersport = 10,000+ posts, yet have NEVER asked for your money. (ok, maybe a free cheap beer here and there, but that is it!) :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Dag
Member
Username: Dag

Post Number: 218
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 141.211.222.62
Posted on Monday, May 22, 2006 - 10:48 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The initial website you linked to has no information that is validated by study, fact or even legitimate analysis. It consists of a picture of the people mover, unintelligible blabber and a petition.

Your second link is a hijacked link redirected to a tripod site (nothing says high end like tripod) and is election material from 2002 which doesn't state anything of what you are trying to say. I am lead to assume that you googled fuel tax and decided that would be a good enough document despite what it states.

The second link is not associated with you or your organization (you), nor does it give credence to any of your statements. Simply giving information about proposal S and the history of SMART funding.

Further, the second link is sponsered by CRC, Citizen's Research Council and has no relationship with your organization. The ballot initiative you are talking about is not even sponsered by the CRC for what they are working towards with the next election. http://election.crcmich.org/

You have not validated any of the claims that you are making in fact I am led to assume that you are insane. I am hopeful that you will not trace my IP address and show up at my front door.

It would be absolutely swell if you just go away. If you go away I will buy supersport 4 beers. Now the rest of the forum has a vested interest in you going away as well.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 30
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 6:03 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I support the free enterprise system of choice. Obviously those who posted the above posts want more big government to raise taxes for all to bail-out two public transit systems with COUNTY tax INCREASES without any additional state or federal money OR any industry support much beyond $8 dollars an hour with no or little medical insurance. Welcome to Michiganís new economy.

I'm going to my job which pays me enough to drive a car. I support those who canít drive with compassion. This is a free country and I think those who vote in more tax increases that cripple our economy are only concerned for themselves and/or insane.

Thanks to all for the comments. I appreciate them and will use them to work with all to improve our area for everyone.
Top of pageBottom of page

E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 674
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:03 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Fnemeck.
Dag: I will also see your pledge four beers to make trainman go away and raise it one cab fare from Woodbridge to downtown.
Top of pageBottom of page

Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3373
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.250.174.70
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 8:18 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a vested daily transit rider, I have no idea what Trainman is promoting. That's why I rarely even bother to check this thread.

All I can tell it will not make mine or any other daiy transit rider's life any better.
Top of pageBottom of page

Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn

Post Number: 66
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.141.144.2
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:37 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman, you should write for www.firejerryo.com. you guys are similar in every way except in your views. .andy.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trufan
Member
Username: Trufan

Post Number: 10
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 70.236.144.202
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 12:37 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd like to clear up some of this information. The change in the constitution would not necessarily increase taxes, it would just allow the citizens of a county or several counties to increase taxes in order to pay for things they decide on. Transit would be one of those services that could be funded. It would be up to the people to decide, it is rediculous for the people of michigan not to be allowed how to spend their money.

Beyond that if we allowed the people to decide on how much to fund transit we could actually receive much more funding via a federal match. Currently with our funding through the current millage and the state we do not qualify for federal match. In order to receive federal match we need to have dedicated funding that lats at least 25 years, currently the millage can only last 5 years. I just felt the need to clarify all the misconceptions of how transit funding works. Check out an actual website, http://www.fta.dot.gov/16228_E NG_HTML.htm


"The three measures for local financial commitment include:


Local Financial Commitment

* Stability and Reliability of Capital Financing Plan
* Stability and Reliability of Operating Financing Plan
* Local Share of Project Costs"

In order to succeed in receiving new starts funding we need a dedicated source of funding and the constitutional amendment would allow us to have the dedicated funding.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 31
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 5:59 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trufan, show me the facts.

The standard measure of mass transit is the Fare-box to revenue ratio which is too low in southeast Michigan in comparison with even mediocre transit systems.

The best tax mechanism to fund mass transit is the fuel tax. The state constitution change would mean that this tax mechanism is abolished under the current DARTA agreement which is illegal and immoral.

I have heard sales taxes are the answer before but this is false propaganda. The FTA data base as shown in my webpage clearly shows that sales taxes do not mean more federal transit grants or that our limited tax dollars will be better used. The web link you provide has no proof that you know the facts about mass transit.

The primary problem with our current public transit system is that it costs too much. Until we can lower the cost by competition or any other means, raising any kind of tax can and will only cripple our ability to attract jobs and compete in the World economy.

Cities that have the lowest per-passenger tax subsidies for mass transit have the best rail and bus systems. Detroit has among the highest transit taxes, if you include state funds thus increasing tax dollars will make things worse. Our leaders make it clear that state funds are to replaced. DARTA puts this in writing.
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 32
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 6:28 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trufan,

I worked very hard to keep SMART in Livonia and I do not care how we pay for mass transit. I'm very much in favor of increasing transit funds but I want a common set of bus schedules and want DDOT and SMART to work together to maximize our tax dollars. DARTA is supposed to do this and it's time they listen to the public.

Please sign my petition drive which very much supports your cause and will allow all of us to come together. I'm only asking for our state to protect existing tax mechanisms and money in writing. DARTA is a legal agreement if the voters or our legislature approve of it. And I promise you and everyone else that if its not there then it does not exist.

The suburbs do not want to pay the debt for the city of Detroit without representation and competent bus service. Trufan, if you want the public to take action then please e-mail me and letís set up a public debate. Obviously, the people in this thread know almost nothing about how mass transit is funded and they obviously don't seem to care also.
Top of pageBottom of page

Fnemecek
Member
Username: Fnemecek

Post Number: 1681
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 69.212.61.206
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 9:54 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman,

I'm still looking for those sources that I asked you about last Friday. (See above).
Top of pageBottom of page

E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 678
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.42.176.123
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 10:28 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman: Listening to your unsubstantiated giberish makes me say...



No wonder no one will debate you. Your arguments have no basis.
Top of pageBottom of page

Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3785
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:03 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, to his credit, he's more coherent than Danny. :-)
Top of pageBottom of page

Jams
Member
Username: Jams

Post Number: 3386
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.79.112.43
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 12:07 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, maybe, he spells better.

Obviously, it's our fault, we don't have any comprehension of his message.

So, I understand, he can fill buses in Livonia. Can he get me to where I need to be, on time, by taking the bus?

There was a time when the two lines may have made sense, but not now. Having two systems, one for the City and another for the suburbs makes no sense to this bus rider. Tonight, an empty SMART bus driver ignored my signal for a pickup on Jefferson despite the fact it was past 6pm, so the 3 of us waited an additional 10 minutes for the Ddot.

In this era of high fuel costs, does it make any sense for any system to turn down a rider that will pump money into the fare box?
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 33
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 6:04 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you look closely at my website, you will all see that I'm very much for mass transit. I'm just asking SMART and DDOT to provide a common set of schedules and coordinate all the bus routes.


Yes, letís pass Proposal S (SMART property tax) next August.

Trufan and everyone, letís debate in public and the topic will be

How do we make
Proposal S and all other transportation taxes work to best benefit the taxpayers? Iím VERY serious about this. So, e-mail me.

http://savethefueltax.org

Thank you all for your responses and if anything on my site is offensive to anyone on DetroitYes or false then I will remove or change it.


(Message edited by Trainman on May 24, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Naturalsister
Member
Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 657
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.8.103.202
Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 6:43 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don't you see Trainman?

Your responses are wordy and VAGUE.

BYE.

later - naturalsister
Top of pageBottom of page

Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 37
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 6:21 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Naturalsister, Trufan will not debate me in public about the state constitution change to raise county sales taxes.

This person obviously wants to raise your taxes without filling up the buses with people going to decent paying jobs.

Please get my updated website well known so I can fill up all buses all over the city of Detroit and suburbs and not just in Livonia, Inkster and Dearborn.

http://savethefueltax.org
Top of pageBottom of page

Dag
Member
Username: Dag

Post Number: 219
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.188.238.215
Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 8:00 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So far the forum is willing to buy Supersport 8 beers and cab ride if trainmain goes away.

I am willing to up my initial ante and offer two jager bombs for Skulker and 3 kamikazees for Lowell.

This is all for the low low price of trainman going away.
Top of pageBottom of page

Deputy_mayor_2026
Member
Username: Deputy_mayor_2026

Post Number: 55
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 11:49 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've repeatedly requested televised debates with the Kilpatrick Administration, but they never seem to reply. It must be because Kwame is afraid to go head to head with me.
Top of pageBottom of page

Billybbrew
Member
Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 168
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 1:20 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Me thinks that Trainman and Deputy Dog...errr, I mean Deputy_Mayor, are one and the same.....

"I've repeatedly requested...."
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 765
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 1:58 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Methinks that "methinks" is only one word, neighbor Billy. Unless you're a bit older than I think you are or thou speaketh Middle English.

me∑thinks Pronunciation (m-thngks)
intr.v. Past tense me∑thought (-thŰt) Archaic
It seems to me.

[Middle English me thinkes, from Old English m thyncth : m, to me; see me + thyncth, it seems; see tong- in Indo-European roots.]

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on May 28, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Naturalsister
Member
Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 663
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 70.8.206.235
Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 5:53 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Livernoisyard,

Didn't you hear?

Some newbie poster named Correctone says they are tired of the grammar police on this forum.

As if anyone give is F**K.

later - naturalsister
Top of pageBottom of page

Billybbrew
Member
Username: Billybbrew

Post Number: 169
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 6:44 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ahhh, one word, not two, whoop de doo, billybbrew.... :-)

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.