  Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3383 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.9.184 |
Im surprised no one brought this article to our attention: "Vassos shares some thoughts about Greektown's future." http://www.metrotimes.com/edit orial/story.asp?id=9212 | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 818 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
Interesting article. That place always seems to busy nights I am there, somewhat surprised to hear they are near failure | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3385 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.252.9.184 |
Although I am no longer there, I know the place I worked, had a huge drop-off in business when the Casino opened. OK guys, I know there were other reasons, but the place lost many of the regulars once parking became an issue. | ||
Ddaydave Member Username: Ddaydave Post Number: 417 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 67.149.185.244 |
Sad article I have already seen rivertown destroyed by the casinos and from what I have seen the casinos have only thought about themselfs and have done little or nothing for the neighborhoods around them. As far as I`m concerned they can tear down all the casinos | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 2150 Registered: 08-2004 Posted From: 4.229.72.192 |
I didn't want to acknowledge this but every year for 15 years my mother, sister, niece, nephew and I went to Greektown to the New Parthenon on Good Friday for Lunch. And in the last few years we have been seeing fewer and fewer people in the restaurant while we were there (we get there at 11:30 AM every Good Friday). This year there were only 2 other tables with people while we were there. 10 years ago it averaged about 10 tables of people..... We always park in the garage next to St. Mary's, and my sister acknowleged that with that structure coming down, it might be a good time to look elsewhere for lunch on Good Friday... (but of course I won't let her!). Just another troubling observation.... | ||
Saabdriver1986 Member Username: Saabdriver1986 Post Number: 373 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 141.217.173.148 |
Could the drop of in some of their business have to do with that fact that there are so many more options for food now? Suburbanites for one have a much greater awareness of downtown and its new restaurants. Now, I know downtown has always had a lot of great restaurants but this last surge in new openings seems to have received a lot of publicity because of the Super Bowl, Campus Martius, Compuware, new stadiums and just a renewed interest in the city. Many of Detroit’s best restaurants are not secrets any more. Perhaps suburbanites who have been going to Greektown every game or every mothers day are a little tired or the same old thing. With the exception of MOSAIC and a few other places, Greektown hasn’t really offered anything all that great recently. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 7442 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 198.208.159.19 |
I tend to not go to places in Greektown because I have just assumed they were doing well. I figured spend my money on the places struggling. Guess I will have to support Greektown places a little more. One place that I am certain is doing well is Astoria. Everytime I go in there are 20+ people waiting for desserts. | ||
Gravitymachine Member Username: Gravitymachine Post Number: 1071 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 198.208.159.18 |
saabdriver, the same could be said for the bar scene around town...I know places like the garden bowl for instance haven't had nearly the level of regular traffic through them recently like 5 or so years ago...used to be a normal saturday night there was shoulder to shoulder, I haven't seen that there, save for a few special events, in a few years. as far as greektown goes, I've never much cared for the place really | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 679 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.42.176.123 |
I have a hard time believing that Greektown is having a tough time financially. That place probably receives the most foot traffic than any other area of downtown. It is always packed hours before and after every Red Wings, Tigers or Lions game and all major events. I would say it's People Mover stop is the most heavily used on the line. Well known places like Pegasus are always packed with customers. I seriously wonder if all of this local merchant whining isn't just a smoke screen to get a better deal from the casino and city. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 390 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
E_hemingway, you have to admit though that Greektown is getting a lot of competition from other restaurants around downtown. 5 or 6 years ago I used to eat in Greektown a lot, but now with all the new options all over the city I don't eat there very much. Just Plaka's about once a week or so. He's right about parking. When that structure goes down, the small businesses in Greektown could be hit hard. I don't know about the voucher's. I guess it gets gamblers to eat outside the casino. I'll have to stop in at Cyprus. FREE SAGANAKI! woo hoo! | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 744 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 199.178.193.5 |
Admittedly, Greektown isn't the only game in town anymore. That fact, coupled with the fact that many restaraunts here haven't even mopped their floors in a few years, could be why some of them aren't doing well. A resistance to change, clean, or respond to the Michigan Gaming Board's requests are all reasons why Cyprus hasn't done well. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1719 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
http://www.whomovedmycheese.co m/ I haven't read this book, but my father talked about it a lot when he read it. I think what we are seeing with this individual place in Greektown, just as with Cadillac luggage, is a "who moved my cheese" attitude. Businesses have to adapt, change, compete, and find new customers. Bagman had really good personal reasons why he didn't want to. I doubt that Greektown as a whole does. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3390 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.89.140 |
E_hemingway, You might take some time and talk to some of the owners of businesses in Greektown. Since the Casino opened, if they don't or can't play by the Casino's or State's rules they are SOL, as Vasso stated. I won't name the establishment, but the owner has complained to me numerous times about the burden of the paperwork to receive payment for Casino Comps. One small typo or error will delay payment for a month or more. Not having that capital available might have devasting effects on that business's relationships with its suppliers. COD is a bitch, while you're waiting for the money that is owed you. Saabdriver1986, My experience is Casino goers do not stray far from the Casino. A restaurant on the other side of Downtown may pick up the occasional group for dinner and drinks prior to finishing up their night at the Casino, but I wouldn't base a business plan on that. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1720 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
BTW I'm part Greek, and love Greek food, but I rarely eat at Greektown. I'm never really very impressed with my experience when I do. I think the restaurants have to better differentiate themselves from each other and be better about having their own identity, instead of just being one of many seemingly similar places. From my POV, there are three types of restaurants in Greektown: 1. The bland, boring places that aren't worth my time and money. It is like Applebees opened a Greek place. 2. The cheap, little whole in the wall places that are decent but a little rough and cheap. Good sometimes, but sometimes you want somethign better. 3. The places that aren't Greek. Mosaic is great. I guess Pizza Papalis is good pizza. In addition: There is really very little about Greektown that is Greek to me other than flags, music, and restaurants. If I want to get Olives or other food-based Greek imports, I go to Eastern Market. If I want something else, I'm not even sure where I can go. Maybe the new retail in the casino hotel can help diversify the options. Maybe the vacant land between Randolf and Brush (north side) should be built on. IMHO Greektown was successful for so long because it was the visitor/tourist destination. Now they have competition for that title (which is good), but they aren't finding other niches to fill. Greektown should be more than just a casino and some restaurants. (What it is now.) It should also be more than some restaurants and some parking lots. (What it seems it used to be.) | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1721 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
Which is why Greektown has to be moving away from just serving that crowd. They should reach out to Campus Marius to improve foot traffic between the two. The same is true for the Ren Cen and the Harmonie and GC Park theatre areas. The attitude that parking is their problem will only exacerbate the reality that they are relatively isolated from the rest of downtown by parking lots. You and I will walk between those destinations because we know how far it is and what to expect on the way. Somebody less familiar or comfortable with the city will look and a relatively desserted stretch of street and decide that they don't want to risk walking. To them it is too unkown, too scary, too boring, or too uncomfortable. (Message edited by jsmyers on May 24, 2006) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3391 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.89.140 |
It's so sad we have neglected those little family owned places to have a corporate facsimile of them. | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 399 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Jsmyers, Greektown used to have apartments above the restaurants. They could bring that back, or even cheap little retail stores above the restaurants that sell vintage stuff, trinkets, used records, furniture etc. They could add rooftop patios. They could also build housing in the big parking lot North of the Monroe strip. Brand new Ellington-style "Lofts at Greektown" would surely be a hit. Greektown needs to think big if they want to save themselves. They need to stop complaining that it's not like it was in the 80's. (Message edited by eastsidedog on May 24, 2006) | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3392 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.89.140 |
Isn't that the diversity that so many on this forum demand? | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1722 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
My point was is there is a Greek equivalent to the McDonalds, Subways, and Luci and Ethels (in the Leeland--great place). That is a good thing. But is there a Greek equivalent to Vicente's, Sala Thai, Majestic, Atlas, Union Street, Magnolia, or even Greektown's own Mosaic? If there is I don't know about it. I think that is part of Greektown's problem. The combination of mediocrity and uniformity is a long road to failure. Another missing niche (maybe I'm wrong): Quick, to-go gyros and other lunch fare. A Greek Deli might be a new concept, but I think it "has legs." | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3393 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.89.140 |
Why? | ||
Eastsidedog Member Username: Eastsidedog Post Number: 400 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 12.47.224.8 |
Greek Omelettes at Plaka's at 3am are still the bomb! | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1723 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
Why what? I've lost you... I'm not saying that "what Greektown is" is the problem, I'm saying that it can be a lot more, and probably will have to in order to be successful. | ||
Keystone Member Username: Keystone Post Number: 220 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 63.241.158.33 |
Cyprus needs a face lift, and their food is mediocre. Competition is the primary reason their business has fallen off. If things in Greektown were so bad, you wouldn't see a Mosaic, or Pappy's, or the new place right next door to Cyprus. When the Metro Times asks 'who is at fault?' they forgot the obvious. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 633 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
From the MT story...
The opening of Greektown Casino resulted in a parking shortage in Greektown. In order to solve this problem, the casino built a new parking garage on a surface lot, and will now replace an old run-down garage with a much larger garage, and a 400 room hotel. The end result of these projects will add an additional 3000+ parking spaces in Greektown, along with a 400 room hotel. After all of the complaining about the shorage of parking in Greektown, the merchants should be thrilled with all of the new parking that the casino is building. This is the solution that they have been demanding for the last few years. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 463 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
While the loss parking short term will hurt most of the whining is simply that Greekotwn isn't the only destination downtown they can no longer sit their laurels. They needs to start looking at a strategy dealing with parking while the casino under construction and just promoting themselves in general. I'd like them close Monore on weekends nights creating a street festival every weekend | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1727 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.131.7.68 |
That is a great idea Eric. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 3404 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.79.88.138 |
Rather than talk to us about what you would like to see happen, approach the Greektown Merchants Association with your suggestion. It's their turf and businesses that would be affected, so sell them on the idea. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 635 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 69.242.214.106 |
When did Greektown become part of Bizarro world? Why would you expect customers to create new business plans and marketing stategies for the Greetown Merchants, and go to merchant's meeting to sell it to them? That is like asking a car buyer to design a better automobile, and then try to convince GM to build it for you. If business has dropped off for some of the Greektown merchants, it is their responsibility to come up with solutions. Some of the merchants make it sound like Greektown has become a ghost town, due to the evil casino taking away all the parking and chasing away all the customers. The complaining and finger pointing makes for a good story, but there is another side to this story... For every business that has lost sales, there is one that has opened or grown. Mosiac and Pappy's have recently opened in completely renovated buildings. The owners spent hundreds of thousands on these projects. If things were really so terrible in Greektown, this money would have been invested elsewhere. The business at Plaka, Athens, End Zone, and Astoria is still very strong. In fact, the owners of Astoria are in the process of doing a massive rehab and expansion of a building (with a restoration of the historic facade) that has been vacant for years. If the state of Greektown is so bleak, why would the Astoria people renovate and expand a long vacant building just after the Superbowl and All Star Game? The casino recently purchased the building and parking lot owned by Lavdas Jewelers. After years of doing business in Greektown, they could have taken the cash and left. If things are so bad in Greektown, why did they choose to relocate the store a few doors down the street instead of moving it out of Greektown? The astounding success of the new Coldstone Creamery really proves the incredible foot traffic and sales potential that currently exists in Greektown. The new Coldstone ice cream shop is located in a tiny space in Trappers Alley. They don't have a street entrance, they don't have any seating, they don't have any parking, and they don't have a drive thru window. To make things even worse, construction and permit issues pushed the opening back into late October. The new Ben & Jerrys ice cream shop in Compuware that opened during the summer, coupled with opening of Happy Cream, just 2 blocks down the street, made the situation even worse for Coldstone. Ben & Jerrys and Happy Cream both had many advantages over Coldstone with large storefront windows, street entrances, larger stores with seating, and more parking. Coldstone Creamery has about 480 locations, mostly in the warm-weather areas along the west coast and southwestern U.S. The new Coldstone in Greektown had everything going against it. Nobody expects an ice cream shop in the northern US to do as well as the shops in warm-weather states, but they can still do decent seasonal business. The late fall opening of Coldstone, coupled with the lack of seating, parking, street entrance, and two new competitors down the street, made it seem like this store would be a failure from day one. With all of the insurmountable odds facing merchants in Greektown, coupled with the direct competition of the other new ice cream shops down the street (with more parking), the new Coldstone in Greektown sold enough ice cream over the winter to rank 15th out of 480 stores in sales. ----------------------------- It seems that there are many businesses in Greektown that are doing fine, and are planning for a bright future. Maybe the owners of the stagnant busineses should try to figure out what the other people are doing right. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 78 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.50.194 |
I'd love to see Greektown market itself more... like a tourist spot. You can buy a bazillion shirts saying "Little Italy" in NYC, and that place is like half the size of Greektown. Since Detroit's Greektown is probably the most iconic of any Greektown in the country, they should make moves to capitalize on that. Fast. | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 188 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.14.101.116 |
They need to bring back the coffeehouses. No Pegasus, no Cyprus, no Cyprus, just old card playing Greeks. See you malakas and pushtes later. | ||
Ray1936 Member Username: Ray1936 Post Number: 595 Registered: 01-2005 Posted From: 207.200.116.139 |
Old Greeks playing barbut over thick coffee in tiny cups. Just like being in Athens. The city, not the restaurant. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 827 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 68.21.35.84 |
I like that idea about "The Lofts at Greektown." I wonder if there could be anything like that in the works, as it would seem to be a sought after destination for the younger crowd. The Greektown merchants and the city need to come together for some type of master plan for the greektown section of downtown... |
