Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Wayne County Bldg . no longer home to county offices? Previous Next
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Kathleen
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Username: Kathleen

Post Number: 1343
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.14.122.57
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 9:49 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Official asks if Wayne County needs new home

With talks stalled on a new lease between Wayne County and the company that owns the historic building that houses county headquarters, the leader of the County Commission says it's time to decide whether to relocate.

For more than two years, the administration of County Executive Robert Ficano has been seeking a cheaper lease from the private partnership that owns the Wayne County Building at 600 Randolph in Detroit. The lease is to expire in November 2007.
....

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20060529/NEW S02/605290321/1004/NEWS
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Alexei289
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Username: Alexei289

Post Number: 1167
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.61.183.223
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 10:10 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

... wow

when people start abandoning the government buildings..

we have a problem.
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Commodore64
Member
Username: Commodore64

Post Number: 214
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 71.65.11.254
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 1:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have spent lot of time in the County building and its in great shape. This county is going down the tubes; these guys spend millions to save thousands!
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Detourdetroit
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Username: Detourdetroit

Post Number: 212
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.236.145.157
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 1:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ficano's folks brought this up a couple of years ago...it's posturing i think. agreed commodore...
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2180
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.3.110
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 1:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Back in the 1980's former Wayne County Executive Bill Lucas sold the building to developers, and then had it leased back to the county at a very high lease rate. That was probably necessary, due to the fact that the developers put something like $30 Million into it. (The county did the same thing that the city does... it skimps on building maintenance.)

Perhaps the tower scaffold fiasco was the last straw for the county. The building owners balked at expensive tower repairs. Not quite sure, but didn't the scaffolding rental come out of county money?
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3807
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 3:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Alexei, a little over-exaggeration, don't you think? Plenty of old country courthouses and old government buildings have been left by the government and been turned into museums, retail arcades...I guess something is wrong with downtown D.C. because the old Post Office almost was demolished, huh? Let's stop the over dramatics for once. If the county left, you better believe there will be other tenants to take its place.
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Wilus1mj
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Username: Wilus1mj

Post Number: 67
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 67.149.62.53
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 4:51 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The County should re-bid the lease like every other government contract to get the best rate.
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Ray1936
Member
Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 598
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 5:05 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Years ago it was the seat of Detroit Municipal Ordinance Court. Traffic Court, to shorten the term. Worked very well as that; always thought it was kind of dumb to move it.

I do totally agree with Gistock.....local governments skimp terribly on maintenance, from sweeping the floors to major overhauls.

About twenty years ago, the officers at the Fourth (Fort-Green) police station were so pissed off at the appearance of their station, they bought paint from the cigarette/candy machine profits and painted it on their own time. AFSCME filed a grievance and the city had to pay the union a penalty for the non-union work.

On the other hand, the friggin' place finally got a coat of paint..........
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2185
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.27
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 7:09 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Ray1936... with the city and county the term "deferred maintenance" is an understatement... just look at the Police HQ!
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Ray1936
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Username: Ray1936

Post Number: 602
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 207.200.116.139
Posted on Monday, May 29, 2006 - 8:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, and it's a darn shame, Gistok. It was a functionally attractive building in years gone by, and it was just neglect that it became shoddy. Even in the pre-Coleman days. Upgrades never happened. I don't think you'd find a three-pronged outlet in the place today. Except in the Chief's office, maybe........ :-)
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4198
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.169
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 8:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When the Wayne County Gov't HQ. building open around the 1890s. The Wayne Co. Gov't problay have full control of the building. Now today some private corporation own that historical building. HAH! Sounds stoopid to me. The folks who work in those gov't offices at the Wayne Co. Gov't building MUST not leave. Instead they should buy back that whole building and make upgrades.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1601
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.4.60
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 9:03 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Ware's criticism is perplexing, noting the firm won an award this year from the Building Owners and Managers Association for its maintenance of the building."

I don't know where Ms. Ware is getting this from. Do your damn job, and quit making up crap about your workplace. Does she think that if the government takes full ownership of the building then more money will be able to be spent on upkeep (clearly that's not what happens at Police HQ)? Didn't the building just go under an extremely long renovation? If they build something new, where's it gonna go--Canton?
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4200
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.169
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 9:32 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It better not be far away as Sumpter TWP.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2187
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.105.89
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 11:08 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A reminder: Wayne County Seat = DETROIT

So any new County HQ will be in Detroit.

Also, I don't know where the reporter got the 1897 date from. That building opened in 1902.... unless the cornerstone dates to 1897.
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Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5978
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 11:17 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Oakland County seat is in Pontiac. Yet they found a way to put the County Executive, commission, prosecutor, court and jail in Waterford.
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Commodore64
Member
Username: Commodore64

Post Number: 215
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 66.73.225.162
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 12:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If they move anywhere, it will be Downriver. The County owns a lot of property down there already.
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Fury13
Member
Username: Fury13

Post Number: 1091
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 69.222.11.226
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 12:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Construction on the building began in 1896. Cornerstone was laid in 1897. Building was completed in 1902.
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Itsjeff
Member
Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 5980
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 1:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds about right for a Wayne County project...
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2188
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.105.89
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 1:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not according to the Oakland County Official Website.....

www.oakgov.com/maps/assets/doc s/occomplexmap.pdf

The Oakland County Executive Office Building, the Courthouse, and the Jail are east of Telegraph (Pontiac). Here is a map of the Oakland County Campus, and all the buildings east of Telegraph are in Pontiac, those west of Telegraph are in Waterford.

http://twp.waterford.mi.us/gis /maps/generic.pdf
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2189
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.105.89
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 1:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In order to move the Wayne County offices out of Detroit, they would have to annoint a new Wayne County seat. Not gonna happen!

With Detroit having nearly half of the 15 members of the Wayne County Board of Commissioners, plus any from Highland Park, Hamtramck, Harper Woods and the Grosse Pointes (who won't want a longer commute to downriver or western Wayne County).... I wouldn't lose any sleep over it....

(Message edited by Gistok on May 30, 2006)
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1603
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 68.248.4.60
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 1:53 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Comforting words indeed.

I still would like to know this 'Jewel' person's reasons for bashing the building. Sure she points out that it is expensive to have space there, but the fact is the county doesn't really own the space. Perhaps it's good that she's calling attention to the fact that perhaps the county finances would be better off in the long run if they completely owned the place...but, I am still suspect of her critiquing the cleanliness and maintainence of the place.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2197
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.24.35
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 7:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As mentioned in another thread after viewing one of Hornwreckers old maps of downtown... it is amazing at how much bigger the Old County Building footprint was, compared to the old 1872 City Hall.... nearly 3 times the footprint size.

I had always thought that they were somewhat the same size. Of course the old City Hall is no longer here for us to do a comparison with!
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Hornwrecker
Member
Username: Hornwrecker

Post Number: 1214
Registered: 04-2005
Posted From: 63.41.40.186
Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 9:30 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Finally found it, the County Bldg is a little cut off.

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3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 246
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.212.45.63
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 2:00 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The whole deal between the County and Farbman is a travesty. A big political payoff. Some County people put a lot of bucks in their pockets.

A previous poster said the developer would have no problem findinmg another tenant if the County vacates. What a dream that is. If the County goes, it will be decades, if ever, before Farbman will be able to find a non-municipal tenant. My guess is that Farbman has gotten every dollar of its investment back, plus a bundle, so they can afford to walk away or let it sit there.

Anybody ever sat thru a conference there in the main conference room? The place would seat a 100 and probably never has more than 20 attendees. The ceilings must be 25 feet high and the cost to heat the building has to be astronomical. I don't know of a non-municipal tenant who would ever move in there. Historic = high cost.

The County should offer to pay $14.00 per ft. per yr. plus electricity and tell them to shove it if they don't like it.

The County could buy any number of buildings downtown for a new headquarters, for example:

1010 Rivard (Shapero Hall) from WSU. 150,000+ sq ft plus 250 car parking for $2.5 million +/-

Penobscot Bldg, 13 story section, 153,000 sq ft for +/- $6.5 million [probably a lot less.)

455 W. Fort (old Smith Hinchman Grylls bldg), 120,000 sq ft, 100 car parking, for $11,000,000 [asking price.]

There are several others. I know a lot of folks who would buy those buildings and enter into a long term lease w/ the County for MUCH less than its paying now.

How many people here think the County will make a decision based on an arms-length, thoroughly vetted, strictly economic deal, w/ no kickbacks, political payoffs etc? If any, dream on. The taxpayers are going to get screwed again as sure a the sun will come up in the east tomorrow.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1628
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.220.63.57
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 2:55 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Interesting that you bring up 1010 Rivard. I thought it was supposed to become some sort of home base for a legal aid clinic. Still on the market, though?

You're right that they could locate somewhere else, and I agree that efficiency is the right goal for them. It kind of makes sense for them to stay in the landmark building that was built to be county hq, though. Since you say that they won't find another tenant to fill that building, it is best for them to stay.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2204
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.72.39
Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 3:08 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As always Hornwrecker comes thru!

Thanks for the insight 3WC! You always bring the cold hard facts of "reality" to this forum of "development dreamers"! :-)
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3rdworldcity
Member
Username: 3rdworldcity

Post Number: 248
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 69.212.45.63
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:55 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw: Legal Aid and Defender Assaciation deal did not go thru. 1010 is still on the market. I don't understand why you think the County should stay in the building. The County does not own it any more and it is non longer the County's problem if it relocates. The County shoul not waste our tax dollars on that building merely to keep it occupied. Let Farbman worry about that.

Gistok: Reality is sometimes hard to swallow. But, dreaming is necessary sometimes as well.
Thanks for the comment.
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Rayraydetroit
Member
Username: Rayraydetroit

Post Number: 12
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 67.72.98.45
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about if the county makes a deal to acquire the soon to be vacated MGM Casino with attached parking? There was some recent talk about creating a "justice center" combining many government offices.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1635
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 71.144.82.87
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 12:01 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd have to see the spreadsheet on how much could be saved, in the end, if the county purchased a new space downtwon. If the savings are substantial and would make a difference in the overall budget, then I guess the county should move out of the county building.

So, what about them just purchasing the entire building back from Farbman?

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