Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Coho Hall to become Alt. Fuel research facility Previous Next
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1469
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.34
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 9:30 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's a really dumb pie in the sky idea for Cobo Hall: do alternative fuel research when the space is not needed for conventions. I don't know of a single science researcher who would want to work in temporary quarters as well as dismantle their entire lab for a conference from time to time. It's obvious that folks are getting desparate.

http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.d ll/article?AID=/20060601/AUTO0 1/606010347
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Karl
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Username: Karl

Post Number: 2630
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 9:34 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I knew that coho salmon had somewhat revived the Michgan sport fishing industry over the years, but when did they rename this facility in its honor? "Young Hall" would have had a nicer ring and given Coleman credit for all the good he did.
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Susanarosa
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Username: Susanarosa

Post Number: 854
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 208.39.170.90
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 9:36 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Reminds me of the Coho Ball at Cobo Hall cartoon Guindon did years ago.
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Merchantgander
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Username: Merchantgander

Post Number: 1830
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 150.198.150.244
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 9:58 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This isn't new. Currently this is the best proposal out there to receive funding for Cobo's expansion.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1864
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.233
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This seems like a grab for the $250K from the Feds just to run a big study that will tell them this is a weak idea.

Why is it weak....

1. There is already an alternative fuel research facility in Detroit at NextEnergy that happens to be the most aggressive alternative energy research facility in the US?

2. Research facilities don't generate funds, they USE funds. How would it help Cobo to create another use that uses funds but brings nothing else to the table?

3. Fitting the research facilities (lab space, storage space etc) will require an addition much larger than the anticipated addition. The only way to fit it in with the planned expansion it to go both east AND west and more than double the expansion costs of Cobo, while not creating and meaningful revenue source. You can't have research facilities that you take down and put back up in between shows. They would have to have separate and permanent space.

4. Perhaps having 50,000 people in a convention center when a lab experiment goes wrong and catches fire or explodes is NOT the best idea in the world?
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Karl
Member
Username: Karl

Post Number: 2637
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 68.230.22.99
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here's $250K of research, courtesy of Costco (look at their new warehouses next time you're in there)

1. Install skylights. During the day, turn off the energy guzzlers and let God (or whoever you think created the sun) do it.

2. In the winter, thousands of folks inside eliminate the need for heat.

3. In the summer, move the air a bit and eliminate (or minimize) the need for AC

Please make the check out to......
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Rustic
Member
Username: Rustic

Post Number: 2513
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 130.132.177.245
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:33 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Note: 250K$ earmarked to study the feasibility of doing this. 250K$ represents ~ 2 years of salary/bennies of 1 scientist (~2 junior scientists/techs) to actually do real research and would free up their grant writing proposals to focus on eqt rather than salary at first (agencies and researchers prefer this setup). Two years is plenty of time for a small group to get up and running (assuming they are worth a shit).

Note: very little science and engineering research requires huge amounts of laboratory floor space, using convention center sized spaces for this is overkill. Research requiring huge spaces (particle accellerators, wind tunnels, clean rooms, greenhouses etc.) generally require highly speciallized space inappropriate for multi use applications.

Note: virtually no scientist would want to work in temp quarters, but virtually ALL scientists basically do that anyway, the difference is how often they get the boot. The thing is, usually it is >= some factor of 2-3 years or so (the typical length of most research contracts). Having to pack up the lab twice a year is ... well ... unusual ... and it is difficult to imagine high caliber scientists choosing such an arrangement while other alternatives exist (lower caliber guys will do what they have to do of course ... but caveat emptor).

Note: there are NUMEROUS facilities already available to do this sort of work (gvt labs, univ labs, corporate labs, locally subsidized startup/incubator spaces and general purpose commercial industrial facilities) ... with the unfortunate exception of gvt. labs these spaces already exist in abundance in the Metro Detroit area so ...

A more realistic adaptive reuse for this sorta stuff would be of an empty factory but even then it would be competing against some of these other sites in the metro area.

Finally note that MOST of the gvt research $$ in this field will pass through the Dept of Energy which operates several very costly cold war era national labs which are still looking for purpose in the post cold war era. It is naiive to think that only a small amount of gvt research $$ is going to go to these labs. IMO if Detroit will become a alt energy center it will likely be predominately be PRIVATE sector funded as Detroit Detroit's hitech has always been. (YAY Detroit America's bullwark of private sector capitalism!) IMO the best case senario would be if a severely downsized GM could cordon off a good part of its tech center for this sorta research and collaborate with Ford Toyota and DMC to do this type of basic research (sorta like the domestic chip companies (remeber when we usedta have those, lol!) did with their Semicinductor Research Council except at a specific site) ... imo that's never gonna happen tho ...
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1066
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.129.146.186
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:37 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now if they went alternative energy with a focus on, say, solar power, it might be different. But alternative combustible fuel research could be problematic.

Way back in my grad school days our space was so cramped two professors got into a fistfight while arguing over lab space.
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Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2215
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.90.29
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 1:14 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Or they could study another alternative energy source.... wind power! Just set up temporary shop in the City Council chamber....
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Jasoncw
Member
Username: Jasoncw

Post Number: 161
Registered: 07-2005
Posted From: 67.149.141.170
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 6:57 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that they should plant grass and bushes and trees and stuff on the roof. It's supposed to be better for the environment, and it would make the skyline from the river look more green and happy.
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Motorcitymayor2026
Member
Username: Motorcitymayor2026

Post Number: 863
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 24.231.189.137
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 7:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

But then, where would everyone park?!?!?!? :-)
A landscaped parking lot up there would look much better than what we have today
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Lexdetroitman_07
Member
Username: Lexdetroitman_07

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 74.131.204.36
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 7:24 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think this is a step in the right direction for the Coho Hall. Yet another renovation towards the great future for Detroit!! If they can go ahead with this plan and put it into action and use, it would definitely be a big help for the city itself, as well as the Metro Area!!

Lexdetroitman_07
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Bearinabox
Member
Username: Bearinabox

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 69.209.153.29
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:07 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe all Cobo needs is a name that's a little easier to spell...
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Tayshaun22
Member
Username: Tayshaun22

Post Number: 204
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.14.101.116
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So Royce's real name is "Bill Cook"?
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Thursdaynext
Member
Username: Thursdaynext

Post Number: 20
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 70.236.176.89
Posted on Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 8:54 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"I think that they should plant grass and bushes and trees and stuff on the roof. It's supposed to be better for the environment, and it would make the skyline from the river look more green and happy."

Isn't this already a natural occurence on the rooftops of many of the abandon buildings in Detroit? I think DetroitBlog has an excellent example of this currently posted. :-)

All kidding aside, I'm very much for green roofs. If there were some way to incorporate one on Coho that would be pretty nifty (maybe they could also put in a small stream with a waterfall and a fish ladder for salmon to use).
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Bvos
Member
Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1475
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.40
Posted on Friday, June 02, 2006 - 11:05 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ooops, sorry about the mistake on the title! Didn't notice that until reading the posts. Glad folks had fun with my typo!

Glad to see Rustic weighing in on this. If anyone would know about the feasibility of this on the board it would be him. It seemed like a pie in the sky proposal and that hunch has been confirmed.

If a particle accelerator is needed/feasible for the "Coho" Hall expansion, maybe they could figure out a way to rig up the People Mover tracks to be a particle accelerator. When the PM shuts down for the night they could use the unused electricity and tracks to do particle acceleration experiments. The collision could happen in the area of Coho Hall where the tracks run through it. Makes about as much sense as the auto dealers' proposal.
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J32885
Member
Username: J32885

Post Number: 31
Registered: 11-2005
Posted From: 68.41.108.161
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 11:04 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Personally, Cobo Hall should stick to being just be a convention center. Not a reasearch center for alternative fuels. Supposely, Wayne State was going to be place for the development alternative fuels. Any how, they just need to tear down Cobo & Joe Louis Arenas and they would have more space. The Red Wings lease on JLA ends in 2008.

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