Discuss Detroit Ľ Archives - Beginning January 2006 Ľ Detroit's had lost over 80,000 people. ę Previous Next Ľ
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4243
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.173.166
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:22 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Latest reports from SEMCOG that Detroit's population is still declining. The city population is now stands at 870,000 people. High employment, flight to the suburbs and rising crime rates are the blame. Will this city ever be turn around? SEMCOG prejects that the Detroit's population will keep declining to 830,000 by 2007. Matching the population with the entire county of Macomb.
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Miss_cleo
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Username: Miss_cleo

Post Number: 229
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 69.47.85.139
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:33 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cant say I blame people for leaving. Look at your posts here. always talking about the rotten inept *clownsil*, saying the city has no stores open past 8 pm, the crime, the school basically suck, trash, litter everywhere, even on propery owned by members of the clownsil, the police are a joke....etc

Dont jump on me, I wish to see Detroit become a great city again, just like you all do....but it is run by people who are far more intrested in their own agenda then really turning the city around. Sad really.

(Message edited by miss cleo on June 07, 2006)
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Gravitymachine
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Username: Gravitymachine

Post Number: 1103
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 198.208.159.18
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:34 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"high employment", the killer of great cities
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 409
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:37 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe Danny meant "high" as in "stoned".... :-)
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Itsjeff
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Username: Itsjeff

Post Number: 6057
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 208.27.111.125
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:39 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Moderator, please edit the headline to "Detroit has lost over 80,000 people."

Then ban Danny from ever posting again.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1891
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:48 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It'sjeff, Maybe Detroit found them after it had lost them. Then the title would be correct.

Danny, why don't you create a rolling counter for us? It could be like the old billboards that used to show the number of cars built in a year. You know, "1,235,267 people have moved out of Detroit since 1950." I'm sure Lowell would host it for you.
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Naturalsister
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Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 713
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.255.167.138
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 11:48 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LMAO @ Itsjeff.

later - naturalsister
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 488
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:05 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

These numbers are always a little misleading. 80,00 people have not left. The population has decreased by 80,000 since 2000. Many more than 80,000 have left but tens of thousands have also moved to Detroit. Part of the problem is that so many are leaving, but also part of the problem is that not enough people are moving in.

On a bright note SEMCOG says we'll only lose 5,000 people between now and 2030!

http://www.semcog.org/cgi-bin/ comprof/profiles.cfm
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10164
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:05 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good, make more room for me. :-)
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 338
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.223.168.132
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:14 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Many more than 80,000 have left but tens of thousands have also moved to Detroit.




Tens of thousands?
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 490
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:51 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Tens of thousands?




Hysteria, I read somewhere a while back (can't seem to find the link now) that between 1990 and 2000 150,000 people moved out of Detroit and like 50,000 people moved in. Not sure if those numbers are right. If I'm correct then yes, tens of thousands have moved in during the last 4 years but way more have left.

My point was that yes people are leaving in droves, but people are moving in as well in pretty large numbers, just not enough people to offset those who are leaving. (Actually all the old suburbs are losing population but because they are small it is less pronounced than Detroit.)
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 3783
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.208.233.74
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 12:59 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll bet some Detroiters died and other Detroiters were born. Actually I'm certain of the last part, I used to work at the Penobscot Building and the Friend of the Court office was always doing a strong business.
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Zulu_warrior
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Username: Zulu_warrior

Post Number: 2859
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.251.27.41
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:05 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank You Jelk!

Please everyone listen again for the upmteenth time.

Zulu's population rule number 1#

Birth and Death Rates affect population statistics more than migration.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 339
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.223.168.132
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:06 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, Eastsidedog, I was just curious.
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Jelk
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Username: Jelk

Post Number: 3785
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Posted From: 66.208.233.74
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:08 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your welcome Zulu.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 491
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:15 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry I can't find the article Hysteria, but there's no doubt that people are moving to Detroit, and they are not just being born.
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Livedog2
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Username: Livedog2

Post Number: 346
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 24.223.133.177
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:19 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Detroit's had lost over 80,000 people." Huh?

Livedog2
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 340
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.223.168.132
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 1:20 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, Eastsidedog.

(Message edited by HYSTERIA on June 07, 2006)
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Miketoronto
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Username: Miketoronto

Post Number: 182
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 70.48.14.56
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 3:39 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Of course this has to do with births and deaths also.

But I do have a question. How can so many people move out without people moving in to buy the homes of the people moving out?

Are these people moving out just leaving their homes to rot or something?

There has to be people willing to buy the homes of the people fleeing, otherwise the people are not going to leave anyway.
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Boshna
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Username: Boshna

Post Number: 132
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 71.227.103.29
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 3:40 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does the apostrophe imply a contraction (Detroit is had lost over 80,000 people) or is it possessive? If possessive, what is the subject of the sentence, that which belongs to Detroit?

A true quandry either way.
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Lowell
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Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2679
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Posted From: 66.167.210.191
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 3:46 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whew that's a relief, only 80K. And here I was thinking all along the City of Detroit had lost over a million.

ItsJeff, it is easy to hit a d when you want an s. Deduct 10 slack points from your suplus.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1893
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Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 3:47 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Miketoronto, Yes, the homes and apartments are being left to rot. Detroit was/is tearing down about 4000 homes per year and not keeping pace with the abandonment. We have huge urban prairies forming.
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Supersport
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Username: Supersport

Post Number: 10165
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 64.118.137.226
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 3:51 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I drove through some urban prairie on the way to the gym yesterday. The area just east of Eastern Market. The whole area is ripe for development, as there are probably only one or two dozen homes remaining over a several block area. All the rest is prairie.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 3:54 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People have left their homes to rot. That is why there are so many abandoned homes! The value of the property can drop so low that it is not worth trying to sell.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 47
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.214.203
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 4:07 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit will be sustained at some point. It will never completely die. Why? Existing infrastructure.

At some point (perhaps a breaking point) the whole metropolitan system will be forced to agglomerate and take responsibility for what is left of Detroit (outside of downtown). It's going to be very costly, but you can't get utilities and services out into 900 Mile Road when it has to pass through neglected infrastructure in the city first.

It's better to recognize we're one entity now instead of later. This will help to educate people that there IS a breaking point coming in our future rather than suprise them with it when it finally hits.

A perfect analogy is to imagine Detroit as the heart of the region and the growth around it as different body parts. The infrastructure that exists between the two is the veins and arteries. If the heart stops beating, the body and its parts die.

What is often mistaken of the suburbs is that they think they can grow a new heart and be self-sufficient if their heart stops beating.

I think this attitude is changing, but we need political leaders on all ends to grow the balls to make the appropriate moves that will benefit all people, not just one entity.
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 4:29 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not sure that I agree. Why does the infrastructure have to pass through the city when you can just build it locally? Water, sewage, electricity can all be produced locally. In the future, there are some who say that small fuel cells will power individual neighborhoods or even homes, making the need for centralized utilities go away. I am not saying that I want the infrastrcuture in the city to decay and the suburbs not to need to care, but I just don't get the argument.
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Lilpup
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Username: Lilpup

Post Number: 1090
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.129.146.186
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 4:34 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

People have left their homes to rot. That is why there are so many abandoned homes! The value of the property can drop so low that it is not worth trying to sell.




And at some point the developers will take advantage of that land, just as for years they have taken advantage of inexpensive land in the suburbs forcing those values up.
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 493
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 4:36 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Miketoronto, Yes, the homes and apartments are being left to rot. Detroit was/is tearing down about 4000 homes per year and not keeping pace with the abandonment. We have huge urban prairies forming.



Ndavies, I would say the staistics say otherwise.

According to recent stats from SEMCOG:

Residential Building Permits in Detroit:

Annual Averages 1995-1999
Total New Units: 294
Total Units Demolished: 5,698
Net Total: -5,404

Annual Averages 2000-2004
Total New Units: 670
Total Units Demolished: 3,132
Net Total: -2,462

Annual Averages 2005
Total New Units: 1,053
Total Units Demolished: 2,022
Net Total: -969

Annual Averages 2006 (to date)
Total New Units: 214
Total Units Demolished: 440
Net Total: -226

Kilpatrick has said his goal this year is 2,000 new construction permits. So it's safe to say that THIS YEAR may see a small net gain in number of units EVEN as population continues to drop.

I think this is great news and clear evidence of the turnaround in housing in the city. BTW, did you know that in 1985 not one building permit was issued in the city of Detroit!
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Nainrouge
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Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 4:39 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We can hope. In other cities, it was artists who first moved in to take advantage of low property values. But when you can buy a home and property in Detroit for $500 and they still get no takers, that is rather discouraging.

http://www.waynecounty.com/WCA uctions/Auction/
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 494
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Posted From: 12.47.224.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 4:50 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nainrouge, what a cool four square! Very similar to my house. Too bad about the extensive damage. The trims all gone. The windows all gone. And it's kinda far from the cultural center to interest a poor artist, although you could bike right down Warren. Hey it still has six days left! maybe I should buy it, it would probably need $20,000 in work, I guess it's time to go to the casino...
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 50
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.214.203
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 5:19 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nainrouge, I'm thinking more on the level of what is happening with the water department. Despite the fact that all of the water customers pay appropriate dues for their (good quality) water, they still complain of the rising costs of providing that service.

The source of the water comes from Detroit and has to pass through the city's infrastructure in order to make it to 8 Mile and beyond. Therefore, the ancient utility underground must be maintained if the outlying areas are to receive their water.

Secondly, the system set up like branching tributaries in order to serve thinnig populations at the urban fringe. Therefore, we are constructing extremely costly infrastructure for less people. The expanse of the system causes further strain on the current infrastructure, which also raises costs.

That's more or less the picture I am trying to paint. You can argue the same thing with the roads. Your trip home to Troy from Cedar Point requires you to ride on I-75 on the nice surface in the downriver communities, but then when you hit the city line, the freeway goes to crap because we only had enough state funds to pay for the expansion of 75 through Oakland County. So, after dodging pot holes through the city at 25 miles per hour, you finally hit the Oakland County line where I-75 is expanded but in desperate need of repair because it is blacktop.

There is a city that once existed in the footprints of vacant lots and bygone commercial corridors. This is land that is ready for usage, whereas greenfields miles and miles away are not. When you think about what needs to be done to make use of this land, all it really boils down to is a change in social behavior. It's a simple concept but the reality of it is something that most people would agree is impossible.

But like I said, that's my argument as to why Detroit will reestablish itself. It will either do so PROactively before the region as a whole collapses, or it will do so REactively after it happens. So far the response is REactive since numbers are reflecting losses of some 80,000 people.
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Bibs
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Username: Bibs

Post Number: 501
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Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 7:07 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it would be a good idea to look at the death rate in the city of Detroit. Did all 80,000 people leave the city or did 10,000 end up in a cemetary? The huge drop in enrollment in the public schools indicates that the population in the city is aging at an increasing rate.
Also, how many of the 80,000 people found employment in another state? These stats don't reveal much.
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1896
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 70.227.216.90
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 7:07 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastsidedog, If you go back and look at all the press stories over the last 2 years on abandonded houses, you'll find that the city has run out of money to tear down houses long before they have run out of houses to tear down. The limiting factor is the money to tear them down, not the availability of houses to tear down.

According to Semcogs report on population projections
http://www.semcog.org/Products /pdfs/2030mcd.pdf

We had 37634 household disappear between 1990 and 2000. That's an average of 3763 households per year. We had 13554 households disappear in the last 5 years. Even if you don't include the backlog that Killpatrick inherited, that easily comes to 2710.8 empty residences per year. So with the housing gains to offset some of the demolitions you will see that it still comes out to nearly 3000 residences per year.

While my demolition of 4000 houses may have been an exageration, the facts still back the assertion that the city is becoming an urban prairie.

There will be no net gain in houses until the number of households stops dropping. That hasn't happened yet.
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Dillpicklesoup
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Username: Dillpicklesoup

Post Number: 31
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 64.7.187.101
Posted on Wednesday, June 07, 2006 - 7:34 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and hardly any middle class left to pay the bills-

Detroit couldn't make it period without those big Oakland county checks rolling down Woodward ave-Detroit has continued to decline since the riots-
and never quite bounced back- too bad-

I remember when it use to be a cool place-
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3833
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Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 4:40 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with your first sentance, Dill. The current citizenry is too poor to pay for its city. It's like a house note they will never be able to pay off. Unless middle class persons start moving into the city, or the city builds, from the ground up, a sizable and significant middle class, again, there really isn't hope for the cities budget, as a whole. That is, unless they can bring in some HUGE tax-generating businesses, but it would take many of those, and the idea of bringing back or growing a middle class from scratch even doesn't sound realistic. I just don't see what's going to happen. Sure, you're going to have a revitalized and self-sustaining downtown, and a few dozen pockets of self-sustaining neighborhoods, but everything else just seems lost.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4248
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Posted From: 141.217.174.223
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 9:40 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In a way that Detroit kept steady on its large population is due to amount of black-folks, mostly low-income, who are living in the ghettohoods awaiting gentrification, subsidization, regionalization and recievership to happen. And the 4 programs created by the elites of modern feudal capitalism will gobble up their once proud ghettohoods and built megacondos, and superlofts and McMansions for the "Nouveau Riche" hip cool white kids and middle-income blacks and whites. During the past 50 years, segregation, demarcation, xenophobia, freeways, inner ring suburban sprawl,the 1967 riots, the election of Coleman Young, black control of all city services and neighborhoods,a sudden rise in violent crime, ecomonic flight and high unemployement acclerated white flight and cause Detroit's white population to decline from 1,600,000 ( 80%) in 1950 to 88,000 (9%) in 2004. But the remaining 710,000 black Detroiters along with other small ethnic folks kept the city's population in big numbers in check for now.

Today Detroit has experienced a sudden population growth from ethnic Arabs both Chaldeans and Muslims, ethnic Hispanics, Begladeshis, East Indians, and few hip cool white kids. The black flight Detroit to suburbs and the southern " dixiland states " has begun. Black-folks in Detroit both low or high income want good jobs, safe neighborhoods, excellent schools, low violent crime. So they begun to follow the white-man's crowd and go on white dependency. Whitin a 15 year period, over 67,000 black Detroiters had left for the suburbs or the south. declining its population from 777,000 in 1990 to 710,000 in 2004. This trend will continue all the way late 21st Century. When Detroit will be in a late development stages. The next prejection for Detroit's black population for 2010 will be 650,000. 530,000 in 2020. 415,000 in 2030. 290,000 in 2040. and 103,000 in 2050. While Detroit's white and ethnic population will slowly increase due to acclerated regionalization.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 812
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 9:48 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Maybe KK will also leave. On a "mass" basis, would that be considered a loss of one or two?
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Danny
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Post Number: 4251
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Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 10:02 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Livernoisyard,

KING KWAME won't leave Detroit until some hip cool white young adult who has political principles would become mayor of Detroit. Just the black folks did in Gary, Indiana.

KING KWAME won't leave until he get's assassinated by one of his own Y.B.I. Boys or other terrorists.

KING KWAME won't step down until he's see Detroit revitilized and development which it would NEVER happen because recievership will take over all city services.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 53
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.214.203
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 3:02 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Plus, he has to come out of the closet first and declare he is the GOP! ;)
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 495
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Posted From: 69.220.142.7
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 4:56 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies, I see your point. But I think it's good the city isn't tearing down as many houses. Many are torn down that could be rehabbed. The city needs to focus more on rehabbing and retaining the urban fabric of the neighborhoods, especially the older, more unique ones. Building on the original lot sizes is important for density and retaining the urban fabric and "feel" of the old neighborhoods. Too much of the new stuff looks "suburbanish" when they redraw the lots and lower the density.

Although, I don't agree with a lot of Kilpatrick's politics and am not happy with how he abused city funds, he understands that Detroit needs to become MORE urban to be successful. This means rebuilding the reviving areas more densely. More like how they once were.
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 8:11 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

"Plus, he has to come out of the closet first and declare he is the GOP! ;)"

Are you implying KK's really an elephant?
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 56
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.174.218
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 8:36 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mmmmyes...hehe (not literally though...although some people might say that...not me) :-)
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3836
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Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 9:03 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I believe from everything I've seen and heard from him that Kwame is a very moderate Republican in disguise. Detroit politics wouldn't allow an openly Republican mayor, especially in this current environment (even I know that), so this stealth Republican has to run as a Democrat. Seriously, just look at all of his contributors and supporters. What's so incredibly ironic is that Kwame painted Hendrix as the outsider with suburban supporters and contributors! lol
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Livernoisyard
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Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 821
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Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 9:25 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, he be a DINO--Democrat In Name Only).
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 58
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Posted From: 141.217.174.218
Posted on Thursday, June 08, 2006 - 9:58 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dinosaur / elephant...same thing. ;)
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 55
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Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 6:48 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We can all save the city of Detroit. Let's support a half cent Wayne County Sales tax for mass transit. It will raise $500 Million per year.

This will easily bail-out the Detroit Department of Transportation DDOT and buy all our leaders red Lincoln Navigators as state transit money for Detroit is slashed even more.

When DDOT becomes DARTA- Detroit Area Regional Transportation Authority, then everyone will move out. And not just out of Detroit but also Wayne County.

The city of Livonia will then become a ghetto and their largest and wealthiest employer will be Wal-Mart because by then Ford and GM will have finished moving all their jobs to Mexico.
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Ray
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Username: Ray

Post Number: 706
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.209.186.246
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 9:02 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kwame is a Republican? Okay, now you have left the plane of reality.

Now that the election is over, I'll say what I dared not utter during the process. Those suburban republicans who cared about the city supported Hendrix. I gave him over $1000 which is money I really don't have to spend and the most I've ever contributed to any campaign.

I did this because I truly believe that the city's misfortunes -- and the attendent human suffering -- are caused by bad city government and the miserable failed policies of EIGHTY years of Democrat control. Not that Hendrix wasn't a Democrat, but I think he was ideologically much closer to the market-oriented policies that are the absolute key to helping the city and its people.

Let me preempt the vitriol by stating that I have zero business interest in the city governement of Detroit, so am not part of the mythical horde of suburban businesses plundering the city.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 56
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 9:48 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray,

I've given thousands of dollars to improve mass transit and much time and the city of Detroit will not even provide a common set of bus schedules with SMART that make sense.

I work on Michigan Ave and the schedules are horrible and their is no effort at all to get riders.

The problem of this bus route is that the passengers contribute only ten percent where a good bus route gets thirty percent.

Kwame Kilpatrick has stated that my website to fill up his buses is non-sense. Yet, he wants my suburban tax dollars and Lansing is very tired of him not listening to his own city residents. Then we wonder why are people moving out????

Ray, please support my website because seriously, I can do better myself then Kwame and I'm not afaid to tell him in public when if comes to transportation. I'm a professional in this field thus know how to get the job done.

http://savethefueltax.org
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Nainrouge
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Username: Nainrouge

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2006
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 2:24 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If anyone is really serious about buying houses and rehabing them - I posted the link to the Wayne County site about, but here are some more links:
Federal (HUD) - http://www.mcbreo.com/michigan /miplindex.htm
City - http://www.ci.detroit.mi.us/pl andevl/realestate/Sales2005/Bi dSalesIntro.htm
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 62
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.214.203
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 3:55 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The topic of transportation was raised in this thread:

Monday I was going to pick up my car from the body shop on Michigan Ave (near Lonyo), so I decided to rely on DDOT.

It took me 40 minutes to get from the stop at Woodward and Forest, depart the bus at Campus Martius, walk to the first stop on Michigan (just after Griswold). I figured it would take about 20 minutes for the bus to come being that I had done this similar travel and transfer before. Well, after 25 minutes, I gave up and phoned a friend who was (thankfully) on his way downtown. It took him about another 20 minutes to arrive and the Michigan bus STILL hadden't come. I needed to be at work at 1 pm and that wouldn't have happened had my friend not come to the rescue.

I don't need to say it, but: "something needs to be done". I'm 26 and represent part of the brain drain group that refuses to leave without putting up a fight, but when it comes to transportation in our region, I can understand why it's so hard to attract and keep a segment of the population that has huge importance on a city's economy.
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Trainman
Member
Username: Trainman

Post Number: 59
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 152.163.100.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 4:15 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rocket_City

You are part of the brain drain at 26.

I'm part of the retirement crowd taking my pension and savings to another state.

So, if we all don't work together to improve mass transit for all by going to SEMCOG, MDOT, TRU and other meetings and other actions then what will happen is this ---

Both the BRAINS and MONEY will leave this area.

Please see my link above.
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Jjaba
Member
Username: Jjaba

Post Number: 3895
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 67.171.136.201
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 1:59 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Trainman, what's your model of a city with excellent public transportation in the USA?

jjaba has some ideas too. Please share.
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Rocket_city
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Username: Rocket_city

Post Number: 65
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 141.217.214.203
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 3:38 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh I'm not going anywhere...yet. I'm still in school. I plan to fight as hard as possible to stay after I graduate in December. But I can only do so much...which is agreed upon by much of my social circle in the D. No one wants to leave, but there comes a point where you have to realize there's not much more you can do.

Also, I am a member of TRU, have applied at SEMCOG, and have looked into MDOT a few times. When it comes to transportation, I look at Denver and Minneapolis as examples...building their systems from the ground up. Particularly Denver, a region that is not afraid to stress Transit Oriented Development: meaning that their public transportation advancements will uphold its growing economy, BUT also that they don't forget about the importance of an efficient, maintained road and highway system.

From my experiences here, our leadership seems to only focus on blowing our small wad of cash on relentless expansion and only very little on repair and maintenance. And doesn't that make perfect sense, being the urban core is getting poorer and the outer fringe is getting richer? The middle class in the center is left to either follow the rich or die. In my opinion, this happens when people leave the state of Michigan. As a result speeding up the process of social polarization both racially and by class.

We, as a state are ignoring the tools used to reverse that trend, of which I strongly believe one component is public transportation (as opposed to personal transportation).

What's ironic is to ask anyone and they will say they want to see Detroit and its inner ring succeed, but that's about as complex-minded as it gets. Even though we've seen a lot of positive change in the city and area in recent years, the core changes still need to be implimented. Another is regionalizing certain sectors and resources and sharing of services.

Sorry for the long "urban planner's" rant.
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Mackinaw
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Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1754
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.221.95.23
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 3:45 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good points, Rocket_city.

I just saw Lmich's remarks from a week ago today...I think he was speculating on why people like me are always defending KK.
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Trainman
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Username: Trainman

Post Number: 61
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.137
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 5:53 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rocket_City

I don't plan of leaving also. But Iím disappointed with SEMCOG for not getting a common set of schedules for SMART and DDOT. I wanted SMART to stay in Livonia where I live but I knew by going to city council meetings three years ago and talking to people that the end was coming. It's those in the eastern half that wanted SMART and thatís why itís best that we have many revenue sources. I enjoy using the bike racks and don't rely on SMART but it is good exercise and good to know people. I'm a member of the TRU and support mass transit for the quality of life it brings to our cities.

I think we would do better if we kept the present tax mechanisms and instead worked to improve what we already have. Then new ideas will follow and enhance our existing systems. For example, imagine a bus rider coming from Farmington to ride a train to downtown Detroit then on the Woodward trolley. I know we can keep SMART as a regional system if we want and read some good news recently that the eastern part of Livonia might still have bus service.

I think people should take the opt out seriously and learn from it because I've talked to lots of people and they do not care how mass transit is funded but just want to get where they are going. SEMCOG should understand that people generally do not want first class and will stand up but people will not spend large amounts of time getting around. Frequent bus service fits this need but is expensive. In my web, I envision expanding the downtown with the SMART buses so it can be a major hub for public bus and light rail transfers.

Thanks for replying to my post
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Detroitstar
Member
Username: Detroitstar

Post Number: 55
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 65.42.16.138
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 6:35 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit's population increased by 2 this week...my fiance and I are now proud homeowners :-) :-) :-) :-)
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3872
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 7:48 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mackinaw, my last post was directed at Rocket city. It was just following up on his point. Kwame is not much of a social or fiscal liberal.
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Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw

Post Number: 1759
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.221.95.23
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 8:38 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Haha I know, and I don't disagree with your point. I wonder how history will remember him, especially if he serves another term and especially if economic development in the city continues at the current rate.
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Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3873
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 9:17 pm: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think Kwame's legacy will be a good one when judged by history, whether he had a lot to do with the resurgence of central Detroit, or not. History will treat him kindly, at least much kinder than it has treated Coleman Young. Unfortunately, leaders are often a victim (good or bad) or their times.
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Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4312
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.223
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 10:12 am: ††Edit PostDelete Post†††Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroitstar, You and your finance may moved into Detroit, but 10 people will move out from Detroit everyday it won't do any good. Log on semcog.org/to and watch as Detroit population drop like flies.

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