  Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 270 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.79.90.164 |
Heard on the radio that Cheescake Factory is planning on opening a store in the expanded Twelve Oaks in Novi. I know this is somewhat dissapointing as we were hoping for one downtown but maybe they will see how succesful it is and then venture downtown. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1275 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
Speak for yourself. | ||
Matt Member Username: Matt Post Number: 1053 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.49.95.12 |
...until they back out like they did at Somerset. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 621 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.60.110.77 |
Not to criticise anyones personal taste, but what's the obsession with the CCF? I ate there for the first time a few months ago in White Plains, NY and it was as bland as any other chain resturant (Fridays ...). I'm getting to the point where I'd rather see much more independent resturants, than more bland chains that you find everywhere. We're actually kinda fortunate not to be over saturated with some of these chains. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 890 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.226.44.119 |
Well thats a positive spin... I guess we are "fortunate" to have dozens of empty storefronts downtown, and thousands of blown out buildings throughout the city. Yay Detroit! Really though, many chains are not high quality and I dont understand the obsession with them, however they are businesses that clean up an abandoned building, provide jobs and entertainment, and pay taxes..soooo bring em on. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4929 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
So now that they're opening up in the 'burbs, cue the "Oh, we really didn't want them anyway" bullshit. Hold that thought, it's already started. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 891 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.226.44.119 |
Heh. Good point Aram... thats the same hypocritical bs on this forum that exists between the city and suburbs in non-computer land. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 222 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
And, enterprising and adventurous as many on this forum are, there are a lot of places that are perfectly good places to go, even in the suburbs, that look like complete ass on the outside--this scares away people that have never been. Chain restaurants bring in people that don't necessarily get adventurous with their dining. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 622 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.60.110.77 |
I'm just saying it would be nice to have more Detroit originals (Breakfast house, The Woodward, etc)than a long strip of places you see in every other city. I'm not saying that the chains don't have their place in the city however. I just think lots of people look at these things as a way to say "We've finally made it, we have a _____". | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 892 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.226.44.119 |
Oh, I didnt mean to target you, Tetsua, thats just the general feeling I get from the forum here. I agree, we need a good mix of both | ||
Ron Member Username: Ron Post Number: 166 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 66.174.79.226 |
To reiterate a point I've made in the past, it is not necessarily an issue of a chain restaurant "spicing up" our dining options, it is more an issue of a national corporation having faith in the present/future revenue prospects for the city of Detroit. Opening a large chain restaurant is an investment, and any company that wants to invest in Detroit should be welcomed with open arms. | ||
Machoken Member Username: Machoken Post Number: 1276 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 207.145.38.104 |
Not so fast, I'm a card carrying member of the north of 8 mile club. I wouldn't want to see a Fridays open up downtown either. Waste of space. | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 44 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.217.214.203 |
Like it or not, CF is more than just a restaurant like Ikea is more than just a store. They are destinations that attract. Just like Hard Rock isn't McDonalds, neither is CF. A balance of chains and hometown establishments is ideal. Having some chains provides name recognition and is a good way to market your local businesses. In other words, you wouldn't have recognized and purchased from that fancy jewelery store along Michigan Ave. in Chicago had you not gone to the GAP store next door. Bad example, but you get my point. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 271 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.79.90.164 |
I'm sorry but every vibrant big city downtown has chain restaurants. Especially destination chain restaurants and downtown Detroit is just as deserving as other cities. Get off your high horses because there is plenty of room for independent restaurants as well as chains which will attract much investment. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 472 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
I think that's the appeal most here see in chains not necessarily the quality of food. Granted it can get tiresome here with some starting a thread about how they'd like ro see an ESPNZone Blues Factory downtown every week. Chains tends to follow local businesses and we've someone amazing restaurant growth in the last few years just be patient | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 10154 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 64.118.137.226 |
It's sort of a running joke around here, has been for a long time, don't ya get it? | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 695 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 84.156.61.235 |
I think it's disappointing, but I am not surprised. If it were located in downtown, there would be a chance for me to go there, but out in Novi? Not a chance in hell, but they won't miss me, because the crazy people going to Ikea will head out to Novi for cheesecake afterwards. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 405 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
We need a Big Boy downtown! | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 4 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 64.12.187.246 |
The attraction with chain restaurants is that people know what to expect. Considering the high price of eating out, many people aren’t willing to gamble on an unknown in a city which they may not be familiar with. I often find myself going to a Hard Rock Café in a foreign city so I can get a steak or burger that I know will agree with my stomach. | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 167 Registered: 04-2004 Posted From: 24.231.201.120 |
Overrated. Cheesecake factory get its fame by having a limited number of locations. People treat their restaurants like landmarks. Ironic that Cheesecake factory IS technically a Detroit original. No love for the city they started in I guess. | ||
Rrl Member Username: Rrl Post Number: 520 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 209.181.212.60 |
That's very true Wolverine. For what its worth, a buddy who is a national retailing agent once told me that the owner of CCF, while an ex-Detroiter, hates Detroit and "will never open a restaurant" here. Maybe would explain why they're everywhere but here. | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 316 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 205.188.116.137 |
LOL, I agree, Ramcharger. I usually get the turkey burger from Hard Rock if I am out of town and want something familiar. Local restaurants are for sure the best bet as far as atmosphere/ambience and quality (most often), but when you're in an unfamiliar area and want something reliable, a chain/franchise can be satisfying. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1642 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
I am actually shocked to (a) see people actually thought there would be a Cheesecake Factory downtown, after all these years of joking about it, and (b) see how many forumers sincerely think it would be a great addition to the dining landscape. Actually scratch (b). All I know is that if there is one type of business that says "avoid an area" to me, it's a Cheesecake Factory. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4930 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
So the one on E. Jefferson at the foot of the Belle Isle bridge isn't good enough? | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 323 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
They've got a Big Boy at Comerica Park. Same food, just double the normal price. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4932 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
Remember the McDonalds that used to be in Comerica Park? Paying like 6 bucks for a Big Mac... Fantastic. | ||
Ilovedetroit Member Username: Ilovedetroit Post Number: 2299 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.246.54.234 |
I think there food sucks anyway. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4933 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
Eh, it's nowhere near anything unique, but I wouldn't say it sucks. I ate at the one in Chicago, and it wasn't horrid. Nothing special, but still a solid meal. The cheesecake was good. | ||
Spaceboykelly Member Username: Spaceboykelly Post Number: 148 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.246.28.145 |
I think it's much more of an issue that American Apparel, Urban Outfitters, and H&M decided to settle in the burbs. It's nice to fill storefronts, but is Cheesecake Factory really a big deal? There's not a shortage of good food in the city of Detroit. There is a shortage of good/affordable retail. | ||
Thecarl Member Username: Thecarl Post Number: 790 Registered: 04-2005 Posted From: 69.14.30.175 |
you're paying for the ambience. | ||
Lt_tom Member Username: Lt_tom Post Number: 106 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 144.147.1.66 |
I like Houston's. Put one of those downtown. | ||
Tayshaun22 Member Username: Tayshaun22 Post Number: 219 Registered: 02-2005 Posted From: 69.14.101.116 |
Does anyone want to go on a road trip to check it out? | ||
Publicmsu Member Username: Publicmsu Post Number: 643 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.65.11.17 |
Cheesecake Factory is nothing special. I wouldn't hold my breath for one. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 408 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
Aram the Big Boy at Belle Isle is pathetic! while I still go there because I have an unlimited Big Boy gift card it is terrible, I know the owner and he does not give a rats ass about the place. The next closest is either Grosse Pointe (Same crap owner) and Dearborn on Michigan Ave which is pretty bad. There once was a Big Boy in Merchants Row. The thing would do crazy buisness there. Unfortanatly the Big Boy corporate brass is clueless. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 409 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
By the way there used to be one in the RenCen. I would watch the Fireworks there | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 62 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
Getting back to the Cheesecake Factory, I went to the one in Indianapolis, and it was actually quite a ways from downtown. I can't remember the name of the area, but it reminded me of southfield, just a collection of random skyscrapers with stores built around it, sort of like a mall set up. I'd guess it was at least 12-15 miles from town. Anyway I guess the point is for those CCF lovers on here Detroit would hardly be the only big city who's downtown was bypassed by the Cheese cake Factory | ||
Rocket_city Member Username: Rocket_city Post Number: 45 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 141.217.174.224 |
It doesn't matter if you like their food or not. Heck, you may hate the clothing of every major retailer that tomorrow said, "we're opening a store in downtown Detroit". The point is that people know, recognize, and will patronize a Cheesecake Factory. The reason they are few and far between is because one or two are able to serve whole markets. Imagine if Hard Rock didn't locate at Campus Martius and instead went to Novi. It doesn't matter that Hard Rock might be considered "cheesy" or just "all hype". The point is that it draws a crowd and is an attraction in itself...just like the Cheesecake Factory has the ability to do. Now, if Metro Detroit's 5 million people can support ONE single restaurant, would you rather see it downtown, playing off of our new and up-and-coming attractions, or out at Partraige Creek at M-59...an area that has no problem attracting visitors and dollars from outside the local area? People here treat CF as an important thing because they understand that there's more to the tip of the ice berg when just mentioning the name. I understand the humor behind it, but when you have a city that could use all of the economic development tools as possible, it becomes a considerable variable. For instance, is there a connection with Detroit winning a major convention at an (expanded) Cobo because one of the things it offers is a diverse, recognizable restaurant choice...that includes Cheesecake Factory? You can call me crazy all you want, but you'd be surprised. | ||
Tortfeasor Member Username: Tortfeasor Post Number: 457 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.208.121.229 |
Any source for this information? I have searched far and wide for an article confirming the purported Cheesecake Factory, but I haven't seen anything. Therefore, I invoke captain's rules. FYI - Cheesecake Factory is also located in suburban Cleveland (2 locations - Legacy Village in Lyndhurst and Crocker Park in Westlake) and suburban Columbus (Easton Town Center, which may technically be Columbus, but all of Central Ohio is Columbus due to expansion). | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 79 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.131.177.93 |
Eh... There's no Cheesecake Factory in New York City either. | ||
Dillpicklesoup Member Username: Dillpicklesoup Post Number: 22 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 64.7.187.5 |
what? a cheesecake factory adding to the american tonnage? are you sure george w is going to allow this? | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 623 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.42.78.219 |
It's in the burbs there, White Plains | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 413 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
Detroiters don't need anymore cheesecake we're fat enough! | ||
Andyguard73 Member Username: Andyguard73 Post Number: 64 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 64.25.200.14 |
Tortfeasor, what's captain's rule? Is it like skipper's rule, and if it is, what's that? I've seen that mentioned, but don't know what it means. | ||
Cmubryan Member Username: Cmubryan Post Number: 272 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.246.10.215 |
I heard this morning on the radio. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1516 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Because New Yorkers would have been wise enough to burn it down before it opened. Keep the bland grub in the burbs. Detroit can do better. | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 224 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 67.107.47.65 |
Lame. Who needs them if that's how they feel? I never even heard of this place until I started reading these forums. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 830 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
Do they even have cheesecake? My father-il made us go to one in Florida and in the entire 50-page menu you couldn't find anything. It was too loud (even louder than a Bennigans - do they really think people drink more in loud restaurants) and the food tasted frozen then microwaved. Keep it in Novi, bad taste McMansion land. | ||
Rjk Member Username: Rjk Post Number: 325 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.41.145.5 |
I just checked their menu and didn't realize the served regular meals. I thought it was just a dessert place. How are their prices? | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 903 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
Very High for what you get. You are paying for the logo on your napkins. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1540 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
You don't get out much, do you? For the amount of food you get, the options that you have, and for the predictable better than average quality, a $8.95 sandwich is a steal. Maybe not compared to McDonald's or a Coney, but one of the reason's it is such a draw everywhere in the country is because of the quality/quantity vs. price. It is not the best anything (even cheesecake) but think Friday's with a little more creative menu, better quality, large portions, for a similar or lower price. It is great for what it is. Not fine dining, not cheap dining. But definately a value if you eat large portions or if you take left overs. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 905 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
I meant for the cheesecake itself. Nothing special, but more costly than an average slice of cheesecake elsewhere. And I get out more than you think. | ||
The_aram Member Username: The_aram Post Number: 4938 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 68.41.124.8 |
It was pretty much predictable that since it's supposedly opening in Novi, everyone and their uncle would be showing up to say how much they hate the Cheesecake Factory and how overrated it is and how they wouldn't go to it anyway and all of that crap. Trust me. If it was opening in Detroit, every single one of you would be praising a national business for investing in Detroit. Quit the hypocrisy. | ||
Motorcitymayor2026 Member Username: Motorcitymayor2026 Post Number: 906 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 24.231.189.137 |
100% accurate about that the_aram. People have to have something to bitch about | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1018 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 152.163.100.8 |
With the state of the Michigan economy at the current moment, this is a great development. Yes, it would be nice to have it in Detroit, but at least its in Metro Detroit and not in Downtown Grand Rapids. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1643 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
All I can say is that for me, it's not an issue of having something to bitch about. OK, maybe I have just been reading what I want to read, but I was always under the assumption that NOBODY on this board actually wanted a Cheesecake Factory downtown. That's why it was a big joke. Of course, I don't really see many long-time posters commenting on this, so the disappointment I'm seeing on this thread is potentially a (relatively) newbie phenomenon. People here really need to expect better of their downtown. Certainly better than a mall restaurant. I know I am a total elitist, but only in the sense that I expect better than the suburbs for downtown and I'm vocal about it. But seriously people. Get out of the house. Go someplace besides Chicago, and step out of the tourist areas. Then perhaps you will see what real, vibrant cities are like, and what an asset "local color" can be. Fuck this chain shit. You guys are all barking up the wrong tree with that, at least as far as I am concerned. Leave it in the suburbs, and instead hope for more Slows-type businesses to open. Because THAT is what people will come downtown for. A Cheesecake Factory or a Hard Rock is just a stopoff before the fireworks, or after the game, on the way back to the interstate. And blah blah "they're spending their money in the city." Well, yeah, at the same time it is destroying any real character the city has. | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 626 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.42.78.219 |
Amen While I would never knock the investment of any business setting up shop in the D, I'd hate to see it turn into one of the souless suburbs I've seen across America. | ||
Itsjeff Member Username: Itsjeff Post Number: 6047 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 208.27.111.125 |
The only Cheesecake Factory I've ever been in is atop the Macy's in Union Square, SF. The menu is almost identical to Marshall Field's restaurants, including the Chinese chicken salad. The only difference is that they have about 25 different kinds of cheesecake to offer. | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 876 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
I've had better meals at a Cheesecake factory than I did at Atlas last Friday. Of course, Atlas' new menu sucks. | ||
Oldredfordette Member Username: Oldredfordette Post Number: 831 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 68.60.177.56 |
Sorry aram, not me. The only time I go to that chain crap is when my inlaws insist (they don't like strong flavors, like spices and herbs and garlic and freshness) and when they buy. All I can say is Atlas must have sent you a very bland microwaved unoriginal dinner. blech. It's really sad that we are supposed to get excited about corporate chains when very good restaurants in Detroit deserve our support. The small businessman has no where to go in this new culture. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1644 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Atlas is primarily for drinking, not eating. | ||
Haydenth Member Username: Haydenth Post Number: 108 Registered: 05-2005 Posted From: 67.107.50.35 |
If you want some good local eats downtown, go down to Happy Cream (next to the national theatre). The best damn gumbo in all of Detroit and the nicest people. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2595 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.82.105 |
In addition to Chicago...Pittsburgh, Boston, San Francisco, Washington DC, and Baltimore all have CFs in their downtowns. Bottom line, a CF in Downtown Detroit would certainly be an attraction and fairly unique, so let's drop all the psuedo elitism. Cities should/are a combination of chains and local establishments. Furthermore, let's be honest (accurate) about comparing a chain with about 100 restaurants nationally versus a chain such as TGI Fridays with 1000s of restaurants nationally. Again, part of the problem in Detroit. Somehow some want this city to be unlike every other major city in this country. Apparently the rules don't apply to us. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1645 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
No pseudo elitism here. I'm the real deal. I see no reason why Detroit shouldn't be different from everyplace else. Otherwise, why bother? Do you spend your life trying to fit in, or to stand out? Do you go with the flow or do you change things? (Message edited by dialh4hipster on June 06, 2006) | ||
Susanarosa Member Username: Susanarosa Post Number: 877 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 208.39.170.90 |
DialH, when I ate at Atlas before the food was pretty good. But I found that they recently changed their menu and that their old menu was ten times better. The new menu is sparse, unoriginal and bland. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2596 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.82.105 |
DialH, of course every city has elements of individualism, however, Detroit should not be consistantly different than EVERY OTHER MAJOR CITY. Lack of major retail/restaurants, lack of hotel space, lack of convention space, lack of racial diversity, lack of effective mass transit, lack of educational attainment, lack of jobs, poverty, muder rate, etc. Sorry, but I'm not interested in Detroit and the majority of Detroiters continuing to suffer so that some psuedo elitists can 'live' out their warped dreams of living in a "real, gritty city". | ||
Andylinn Member Username: Andylinn Post Number: 80 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 68.40.195.233 |
for all the hubub, their website sucks: http://www.thecheesecakefactor y.com/ yuck. I made better crap than that in 1997 when I was 13. | ||
Rosedaleken Member Username: Rosedaleken Post Number: 176 Registered: 06-2005 Posted From: 68.43.122.151 |
"Sorry, but I'm not interested in Detroit and the majority of Detroiters continuing to suffer so that some psuedo elitists can 'live' out their warped dreams of living in a "real, gritty city"." Wow, I agree completely. Very rare. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1522 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Nor should Detroit be a carbon copy of every tourist trap around the world. You can have a good, livable city without the trappings of bad chain restaurants. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2598 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.82.105 |
Danindc, the "carbon copy" argument in this case is lame, not to mention, not even applicable. We're not talking about suburban lifestyle centers/malls here. The point is that Detroit consistantly lacks amenities found in EVERY OTHER MAJOR CITY. Furthermore, that lack of amenities has led to Detroit facing major problems NOT EXPERIENCED ON THE SAME SCALE in any other major city. Again, major cities have both national chains as well as individual establishments/local chains. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1523 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Cheesecake Factory is an amenity? LOL Go into a real urban neighborhood, beyond the realm of the tourists, and you'll find that the chain restaurants are few and far between. Cheesecake Factory isn't going to make or break Detroit. It seems like a few of you are just looking for validation. If that's the case, much validation can be had by working to improve the D, not lobbying for some plastic imitation of a real restaurant. | ||
Miketoronto Member Username: Miketoronto Post Number: 181 Registered: 07-2004 Posted From: 65.92.154.36 |
While you need a balance of chains and non-chains, one of the things I always tell people is so cool about Detroit, is that you go downtown, and like 99% of the stuff there is unique and home grown stores and restaurants. You don't get that in most cities, and Detroit should be proud of that. To be honest, when I was in Chicago, I did not buy one thing on Michigan Ave. Why? Because every single store was the same store I have in Toronto in a mall. There was nothing "Chicago" on that street at all. In Detroit though I have bought stuff in downtown, because there is unique "DETROIT" only stuff there. So be proud of it. Detroit's one of the last cities with a real "homegrown" soul to it. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2599 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.82.105 |
So everyone else is wrong and Detroit has it right? Sorry but major chains (especially selective major chains) contribute to a city as well as local establishments. And sorry, but every local establishment out there isn't exactly something that is holier than thou. Go into a real major city and then Detroit and you already know the story, whether some care to admit it or not. No, one entity does not make or break a city, but when you add up the total effect of Detroit's systematic lack of entities, the problems that type of phenomenon produces are all around us. It seems like some of you are looking to validate the current state of the city of Detroit. Sorry but love for Detroit doesn't include blind allegiance (as some of you are fond of contending when it comes to issues on a national/international scale), and even making excuses or worse, dishonesty about the city's problems, just to make yourself feel better. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1541 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Dan -- It is easy for you to dismiss the chain. You have Legal Seafood. You have Capital Grille. You have Morton's. You have Ruth's Chris. You have 15 Starbuck's. You have Burrito Brothers. You have Houston's. YOu have Califronia Pizza Kithchen. You have Bertucci's. You have Cosi. I could go on Yet, I dare say that nobody would call Dupont, Connecticut, K Street, Georgetown, etc., carbon copies of any other city. You have a little of everything. And it's great. Chains are not the saviour nor are they death knell for an "urban" environment. They are part of the experience.
Yes. Yes indeed. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 474 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 35.11.210.161 |
The urban elitist can dream all they want, but there isn't vibrant big without tourist traps/crappy chains. No one is saying that chains make a city great local establishments do that and I'd say Detroit needs these more than chains right now. But to be completely dismissive is just stupid Excellent points Dabirch no one would call DC a soulless, suburban, wasteland simply because of a large selections of chains (Message edited by eric on June 06, 2006) | ||
Hysteria Member Username: Hysteria Post Number: 329 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 216.223.168.132 |
Good posts, Metrodetguy & Dabirch. Many of you wouldn't be complaining about 'just another bad chain restaurant' if CF did decide to build downtown instead of in Novi. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1524 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
I'm not trying to excuse Detroit in its current state. No chain restaurant is going to change things, though. What's so special about Cheesecake Factory? Why not a TGI Friday's or Applebee's or Bennigans? Is it okay if someone opens Fogo de Chao instead, or is Cheesecake Factory the only acceptable option? I have to admit that one of the things I love about my neighborhood, is that among the dozens of sit-down restaurants and bars, not one is a chain (if you don't count the train station). A few of us heard a rumor that Applebee's was going to open a location in our neighborhood, and we were ready to take up arms (only half-joking, of course). The problem I have with this crazy demand for a particular chain restaurant (or store) in downtown Detroit is that it seeks to foist something artificial on the city--something imported directly in-kind from somewhere else. If you recreate Chicago's Michigan Avenue, or Manhattan's Times Square in Detroit, then what the hell is there left of Detroit? If you want Cheesecake Factory that badly, fricking go to Novi. Tell us all how bumpin' it is out there. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1525 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Now, if there was a Virgin Megastore in downtown Detroit, that would be cool. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1543 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Dan - How can you not count the train station? I would say that Capital City Brewery, Capital Grille, Charlie Palmer's, Torilla Coast, are all chains, aren't they? You are certainly walking distance to many of the others that that I listed above. Bottom line -- who really cares? I love the Hill. Its great. Two Quail is fantastic. La Colline does a great job. Its a mix. Cheesecake is not a panacea for detroit - but would I rather have it here than not? of course. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2601 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.82.105 |
Again, is a national chain of about 100 the same thing as a national chain of 1000s? Only in a flawed comparison like that is CF the same thing as Applebees. Likewise with something like IKEA vs Walmart. Also city neighborboods vs city downtowns is another flawed comparison. On the contrary, not having entities/ammenities found IN EVERY OTHER MAJOR CITY is what is artificial. If you don't want any chains or anything of national prominence, fricking go to a third world country. Tell is all how bumpin it is there. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1526 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
How can something have "national prominence" if it's generic? Seriously. Get some expectations. Cheesecake Factory will still be in Novi if you want to eat there. I'm hard line with dialhforhipster on this one. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 231 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
Chains draw the inexperienced foot traffic that creates the opportunity for small business investment. When there's no one walking downtown, mom and pop can't take the risk to invest there. When someone like Hard Rock or CCF invests downtown (along with their ad dollars), it creates the foot traffic, which suddenly presents an opportunity to small businesses, or those that invest in small businesses. How is this not clear to people? No one is saying we should fill downtown with chains. I'm just saying something has to provide the jumpstart. We're still in that stage, remember, we are not successful yet. (Message edited by focusonthed on June 06, 2006) | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1646 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
OK, first off, let me clarify that in no way whatsoever do I love or even really like Detroit the way it is right now, in terms of filth and abandonment and overall ghetto atmosphere. Fuck the gritty city. What I want to see is vibrancy. I wouldn't mind the Cheesecake Factory (or any other chains) moving in IN ADDITION to other great stuff, but it really chafes me to see the scramble for a chain IN LIEU OF the other stuff. And yeah, Metrodetguy, I went to a third world country a few times with area upon area devoid of chains or anything of national prominence. It was called San Francisco. They still have chain stores in the tourist areas and shopping districts, and big box stores in the warehouse district by the freeways. But they've got so much of everything else you don't even notice. (Message edited by dialh4hipster on June 06, 2006) | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1647 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
It seems like this would be the case, but it really isn't so. Speaking as someone who has looked around quite a bit at ground floor space around downtown, the tendency on the part of the landlords is toward avoiding the smaller businesses and getting the chains (or well-established businesses) to come in. This is especially true, and almost a requirement, for new construction. The chains are a better bet financially, less of a risk. The problem of course is that Detroit is a risk, so the chains don't want to come down. The other problem is that chains don't attract the type of clientele that patronizes small business, generally speaking. There really isn't much of an overlap there, so chains beget chains, not small businesses. Small businesses, on the other hand, take risks and create the type of area that chains are drawn to - vibrant, foot traffic, safer, established. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1527 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
They do? What foot traffic would a Cheesecake Factory in Detroit draw that wouldn't already be downtown? Typically, chains don't generate the foot traffic. Since they have a very risk-averse business model, they locate where the foot traffic already IS. This is why the chains wear the stigma of being "touristy"--because they purposefully locate in tourist areas! I could be mistaken, though, in that the foot traffic near Ford's Theatre in DC is due to the HRC.... I'll take a survey. Personally, I don't like chain restaurants. The exceptions I make are the higher-end steak places, and local chains. That's my taste. I don't mind that there are chain restaurants in town, though. Hey, sometimes it's nice, in that the tourists and their kids eat somewhere where I am not. This Cheesecake thing, though, seems like a desperate move for validation, though. "Oh, if we just open a Cheesecake Factory downtown, we'll be like a real city and people will come downtown and spend money and it will be wonderful." (besides, wasn't Hard Rock supposed to do that already?). So what? They're opening in Novi. Big deal. Is it going to make Novi a great place? (trick question--nothing can make Novi a great place) Is Detroit any worse for the wear? Absolutely not. Are all the other cities laughing at Detroit for not having a Cheesecake Factory? Hardly. Chicks don't like needy guys, and vice-versa. Stop being needy, and patronize the businesses that are downtown or in your neighborhood (chain or not). Eventually, other people will learn they can make money there. | ||
Solarflare Member Username: Solarflare Post Number: 429 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 63.69.106.29 |
Couldn't have said it better myself. I guess I'm not cool or Hip either. Bring 'em in. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2605 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.82.105 |
More nonsense Danindc. Relationship comparisons to the socio-economic dynamics of cities is a sign of desperation in trying to prove a completely flawed point. Dialh, you completely contradict yourself in first claiming that SF didn't have chains then acknowledging that they do. Furthermore, let's stop all the characterizations of all the patrons of chains being characterless suburbanities and all the independent chains being patronized by hip city residents. Everyone that lives in cities isn't hip/cool and everyone that lives in suburbs isn't bland. All that talk is simply more divisiveness and snobbery. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1528 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
I think a Bose store should open in downtown Detroit. | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 1886 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 129.9.163.106 |
If we don't want crappy chain resturants, what makes you think we want crappy audio equipment vendors? | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3099 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.182.15 |
The Cheesecake Factory is a nice running joke on the forum, but Dan is correct in that these chains locate in risk averse areas. I believe the first CF opened in Chicago was not downtown but in the Old Orchard shopping center in Skokie. The one in Cincinnati is out at a mall in the suburbs. They don't do a lot in city centers. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1648 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
No, I didn't. I said it had "area upon area devoid of chains or anything of national prominence." And that the chain stuff was clustered in touristy areas and by the freeway. Just to clarify. By reiterating exactly what I said. There just seems to be this complete rift between the way people think here and the way people think in other, more evolved cities. It really blows my mind. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1529 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Correctamundo, Czar. Contrary to what was posted above, there is no Cheesecake Factory in downtown DC. Therefore, it sucks to live here. I guess I'll have to settle for Old Ebbitt Grill instead. Here's my problem. The whining and pining (TM) for a Cheesecake Factory downtown is a very superficial argument. I mean, look at Dave and Busters way the hell out in Utica. No one bitches about that, yet Chicago has a D&B's downtown. Detroit must not be a "real" city then, right? The chains won't arrive downtown until they see locally-owned businesses making a buck. Even if they don't arrive--that's not necessarily a bad thing. Heck, I remember when DC had something resembling a Chinatown. Now it's Fuddruckers, Hooters, Ruby Tuesday, and Legal Sea Foods. The only thing Chinese remaining is that lousy bus that takes you to New York in the middle of the night. I agree that downtown Detroit could use more options (dining and otherwise) and it is making progress in those areas. Be patient. The success of downtown Detroit does not depend on whether or not it has a Cheesecake Factory. Or an ESPN Zone or Chuck E Cheese or Ikea, or Krusty Burger or whatever it is you find so special about touristy areas in other towns. Like the old adage says, be careful what you ask for. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2607 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.82.105 |
If Detroit got a CF or any other major chain downtown, there would still be "area upon area" (of the city) devoid of chains. What's your point? | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 417 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
Krusty Burger in Detroit!!!!!!! Now that's an idea, anyone ever have the Ribwich? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1530 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
That's where they take letter-grade meat and process the hell out of it, right? | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 629 Registered: 01-2004 Posted From: 68.60.110.77 |
Don't knock the bus, it's taken me to Manhattan and back for $30 many times.  Chinatown in DC is a perfect example of chains taking over the place. Even 5 years ago it was a fairly cool place to hang out. Today, there is not a sign of anything Chinese, everything is a chain. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 420 Registered: 03-2006 Posted From: 68.43.107.72 |
Awwwww yeah!!! | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1544 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
And 15 years ago there was 5 bad restaurants, 1 good restaurant, a couple of porn shops, and a bunch of transplanted Chinese people who did not live in the area. What is more fake and touristy than the old DC Chinatown? Not much. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1545 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Except of course for detroit chinatown and Plum street. | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 5 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.42.78.175 |
With all this complaining about chain restaurants, one important point is being missed. That is that there are damn few local restaurants that don’t wish that they were so popular and successful that they themselves could become a chain. Most chains start out with one store and through hard work build themselves into a national or international chain. Such was the case with Little Caesars. Were the pizzas any better when there was just one Little Caesars Pizzeria in Garden City? I doubt it. I could easily imagine the day when there are hundreds of Slow’s Barbecues in cities across the country. Will all of you then turn up your noses at Slow’s? | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1649 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Wellll, in Detroit those areas are not only devoid of chains but devoid of ANYTHING. So I guess my point is ... if there is an area (or areas) emerging, I think we should hope that it become the best and most interesting area it can be, rather than a copy of the suburbs that surround it. (edit: Also, my point before was that there is so much OTHER stuff going on in SF the chains that are present in other areas don't define the character of those areas) Have you ever spent time outside of SE Michigan? In a city? Do you talk to people who live in other cities? Have you ever read a New York Times? Ever read about urban planning or the evolutions of America's urban environments? Because this whole "reach for the lowest star" thing is really confounding. Ramcharger, part of what makes Slows a great thing is the dedication of the ownership to the quality of the food, the design of the space and offering the customer an experience he or she doesn't get anywhere else in SE Mich. The location is part of that appeal. If Slows does open more locations - and why shouldn't they? - I think it would only be a problem if they abandonded their core principals and started trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. If they did that then yes, I would turn my nose up Slows. And yes, the pizza was better when Little Caesar's was a little local chain of pizzerias, but that was a long long time ago. (Message edited by dialh4hipster on June 06, 2006) | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2608 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 70.233.3.98 |
Again DialH, the psuedo snobbery doesn't fly. Yes I've done all those things and more, but reading the NY Times doesn't automatically make someone or something better. Shopping at all "independent" stores doesn't automatically make someone better. All "independent" stores aren't automatically better than a given chain. Furthermore, in my "talking to other people that live in cities", "living in/visiting other cities", etc. most there didn't share your extremist type of view. Guess what, the "types" shopping at Salvation Army and "dressing alternatively" aren't as alternative as they think. Bottomline, a mix is good. An area can "be the best", "be interesting", etc. all while having some chains. And no I don't need the suburban boogeyman, comparisons to relationships, the NY Times, or anything else that is completely irrelevant to make my point. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1650 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
I am proud of you that you stand on your own authority to make your point. But I respectfully disagree. And yes, avoiding chains does make an area better. It's better for the local economy, for the sense of community, for diversity and for identity. It builds more business and civic leaders through a culture of entrepeneurship and personal investment in the community. It's like homeownership. No one argues that that is bad for communities. The same principals apply. There is certainly a place for the chain stores, I don't think they should be abolished. Again, my biggest issue is how many people on here believe them to jump-start development in Detroit. Hard Rock, Johnny Rockets and Subway haven't seemed to make a very large impact. Certainly not the impact that Slows, Small Plates, Breakfast House & Grill, Eph McNally's, Oslo, The Town Pump and Centaur have made, individually and collectively. A mix isn't the end of the world, but it's a poor substitute for a city that is full of unique offerings. I understand (what appears to be) the desperation of people clamoring for ANY kind basic amenities, but the bottom line is you can't be desperate. "You know something honey? You shouldn't give your pie away for breakfast, it makes you look cheap." | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2610 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.7.81 |
Speaking of your own authority DiahH, take a look at countless neighborhoods in Detroit and their shopping patterns. Guess what, for better or worse, they're still flocking to suburban chains. How come those city residents don't go to the independents in the city at nearly the same rate? As for building civic and business leaders...mass transit, jobs, reducing crime, teaching better morals, and education are the major factors in producing that effect. Not whether one shops/dines at local businesses versus national chains. Imposing your personal values that don't really exist in the manner in which you describe in other cities (in the first place) upon Detroit as the city continues to decline is once again something that would hurt the city and its residents, rather than help. Again, the psuedo snobby remarks don't add anything to your argument, they only further diminish it. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1534 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Metrodetguy, look at the other side of your argument. The suburbs already exist, right? Suffice it to say, that lifestyle option is already available. Why impose it upon downtown Detroit, of all places? What you're essentially saying isn't any different than "people choose to live in the suburbs because they like it better", when in fact and practice, that's the only realistic option. Dialh is on the money, and the values that you think don't exist elsewhere are highly treasured by people who hold them. Call us the "anti-American Dreamers", if you will. Who are you to impose YOUR wants and needs and lifestyle on us, especially when we have so few options available compared to you? Contrary to what you say in so many words, Detroit isn't hurting because it doesn't have a fucking Cheesecake Factory. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 236 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 24.192.25.47 |
Danindc, I don't think anyone's saying that, or at least I'm certainly not...I go to Chicago all the time and have never bothered to go to CCF. It's just the "I'd rather have an empty building than a chain" attitude that people have here that is tiresome. Like you said, be careful what you wish for. (Message edited by focusonthed on June 06, 2006) | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2611 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.7.81 |
Again, this is mostly a matter of city vs suburbs antagonism and psuedo elitist snobbery for some people. Why attach the "suburban" label to every chain (national or local, big or small), even if they exist in nearly every major city (and/or it's downtown). Why attach the "suburban" and/or "tourist" label to the customers at those chains in the city? On the contrary you are imposing your values to the contrary of what is reality in every other major city except Detroit. That reality cannot be diminished by labeling those entities/ammenities/customers as "suburban" and/or "tourist". And contrary to what you claim, Detroit is hurting because it does not have the same types of entities/ammenities as every other major American city. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1535 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
Sure, but no one moves to Chicago because they have a Cheesecake Factory. That's all I'm saying.... And yeah, I do think it's fair to label chains as "suburban", because no one I know in the city ever eats at a chain sit-down restaurant. We leave that for the tourist crowd (who are easily identifiable by their dress) and everyone's happy. No one is saying there should be an empty building or parking lot instead of a chain restaurant. But to think that people are going to flock downtown for a stupid Cheesecake Factory? That's called the Monty Python Method of Economic Development--"if we just build this large wooden horse..." Conversely, do you really think Novi is going to become some sort of holy mecca because of this place? Absolutely not--it will be as craptastic as ever, I'm sure. Detroit is definitely hurting for amenities: jobs, transit, parks, more housing, more restaurants, more hotels. There isn't anything special about a Cheesecake Factory that can't be accomplished without it. Relying on magical silver bullets is dangerous, and it sounds like you, my friend, have completely bought into the cachet that is the Cheesecake Factory. Gimmickry is no way to rebuild a city. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2613 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 68.248.7.81 |
Sorry Dan but your theories have already proven to be incorrect. Curious Detroiters and suburbanites alike came downtown for Hard Rock. Their business continues to sustain HR. Funny also that the Breakfast House and The Woodward didn't come along until after chains Borders, Ben and Jerry's, Kinko's, Jimmy Johns, and Hard Rock. And yes there are some people on here that would take an empty building over a chain. And once again I have to point out that I know/have seen countless Detroiters flock to chains, suburban and city based. Likewise for people that I know/have seen in other major cities. Afterall, the chains in other major cities aren't flourishing based on tourism alone. Magic bullets = no, CF-types part of the equation = yes. There are too many people that only want Detroit to thrive own their short-cited terms (no suburbanites, no chains, no non-Black people, no well-to-do people, etc.) Psuedo elitism is no way to rebuild a city, especially Detroit. (Message edited by metrodetguy on June 06, 2006) | ||
Ramcharger Member Username: Ramcharger Post Number: 6 Registered: 05-2006 Posted From: 68.42.78.175 |
1st, Detroit does not attract tourists. There is very little in Detroit that a tourist would want to see. 2nd, people keep saying that we need more hotels. Well, just who do you expect to stay in these hotels if not tourists? 3rd, you say that tourists are easily identifiable by their dress. How do you do that, by their tennis shoes? Or is it that they don't look (or smell) like the winos and derelicts one usually runs into on Detroit streets? (Message edited by Ramcharger on June 06, 2006) | ||
321brian Member Username: 321brian Post Number: 152 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 68.62.6.147 |
I don't know why so many people here are anti-chain stores/resturants. Go down any thriving street... Michigan Ave. in Chicago, The Strip in Vegas, Rodeo Drive, Times Square and you will find chain stores and resturants. I think that the Cheesecake Factory will do well anywhere they put it. It will be a draw. Anit chain is more anti-busines if you ask me. | ||
Tortfeasor Member Username: Tortfeasor Post Number: 458 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.208.121.229 |
Why the hell is everyone getting bent out of shape on this issue? Nothing has even been put in print to confirm this rumor (apparently the best we get is two forumites passing on the rumor they heard on the radio), yet we have this long-ass thread discussing the purported "CF" with its gold-plated hallways and diamond encrusted urinals. This issue has been re-hashed probably as frequently as the rate of new members to the forum over the past year. To the query posited to me above regarding "Captain's rule." Yes, I typed that intentionally. My own version of Skipper's rule, which chronologically comes before Skipper's rule. The rule: don't get bent out of shape over a stupid rumor until you at least see it in print (at which point, you invoke Skipper's rule). Perhaps these rules are one in the same and/or I am mis-interpreting Skipper's rule. Nevertheless, I prefer greater precision with my rumor rules, and have, therefore, created two rules. Damn. Fernando Rodney just blew the f'n game as I am typing this. Stupid f'n Cheesecake Factory. By the way, when I lived in Cleveland, and the first Cheesecake Factory was built in that area (in a suburb, Lyndhurst), there were consistent 3 hour waits at the place nearly every night during the first month the place was open. If you build it...uh...never mind...who in the hell wants to go to Novi? Simple solution to all of this--if you don't like chains, don't go. But, just because you don't like them doesn't mean they shouldn't be built. Suck it up, and walk on by (break on through to the other side)--just watch out for the long line out the door and halfway around the block. Now, back to your regularly scheduled p*ssing contest. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 1536 Registered: 10-2003 Posted From: 67.100.158.10 |
How so? Seems like you're illustration of correlated items doesn't really prove much, other than there is an increased number of businesses in downtown Detroit. I don't understand why people are hellbent on making Detroit look like everyplace else, which is to say, no place in particular. | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3100 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.212.228 |
"Go down any thriving street... Michigan Ave. in Chicago" Using Chicago as just one example, the chain restaurants arrived long after the Michigan Avenue area was thriving, they didn't play a part in making things happen. As posted above, chains are risk averse, they wait for things to start booming, then they invest. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 80 Registered: 04-2006 Posted From: 64.131.177.93 |
When I travel, I personally tend to avoid the chains... except for the Cheesecake Factory. The food was always decent and it was a novelty since they didn't have one in Detroit. At one time I did want a CF to be in the CoD, but now I'm a bit indifferent. Once the residential areas downtown and in midtown become dense again they will have no problem attracting a CF, or any other chain for that matter. By that time I'd rather the chains not be there and instead be in the suburbs (or be fewer and farther inbetween). So if Novi wants to bend backwards for a chain that built in places like Birmingham, Alabama and Des Moines, Iowa before it decided to come to metropolitan Detroit the let them. Sooner or later Novi is gonna realize that urban environments cannot be reproduced artificially (see Fountain Walk). | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2618 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.77.116 |
This anti-chains in Detroit (i.e. CF, PF Changs, ESPNZone, etc.) is actually symptomatic of larger issues. It is a matter of some forumers pushing their psuedo intellectual and psuedo elitist socio-economic/political views on everyone. It's about some people being so anti-corporate, anti-suburbs, extreme left-wing socialism, etc. combined with their desire to live out this perceived ideal of a gritty lifestyle, that comes at the expense of the city and the majority of its citizens. | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3101 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.212.228 |
^Uh, yeah, right. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2619 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.77.116 |
No you're right Czar. Detroit residents are boycotting city and suburban chains by the hundreds of thousands. Also, hundreds of thousands of Detroit residents have demanded that no chains open downtown. Detroit residents absolutely do not want these businesses with their jobs, taxes, and customers being drawn to downtown. Their taking over abandoned/empty buildings would destroy the gritty lifestyle that we all enjoy. | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3102 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.212.228 |
Never mind the fact that the CF corporate offices would never even entertain the notion of opening a business downtown. And equating disliking corporate chain restaurants with far left socialism? Classic. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2620 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 69.221.77.116 |
Czar, 1. We both know CF is an example of a major chain, especially a major chain with a limited number of outlets. 2. Please support your claim (verifiable documentation) about CF corporate. 3. Ok, what would you call attempts to makeover Detroit into some kind of utopian (in your mind) place that does not have the components (diversity in business, race, income levels, education, etc) of every other major city? | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3103 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 129.137.212.228 |
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ ac2/wp-dyn/A38908-2002Aug3?lan guage=printer The key line: "Cheesecake Factory's interest 20 years later in the Washington area is no surprise, given what became the chain's business model. It puts restaurants where there are 250,000 people within five miles, with household incomes of $50,000 to $75,000" This doesn't sound like the current situation in the five mile radius from downtown Detroit given it is one of America's poorest major cities. Detroit would have to make more economic inroads, then they'd plop one down. Chains are opportunistic, they wait for independent businesses to take risk and then they see what happens. And please, screaming socialism just makes you look like an ass. Are those who are pro-CF right wing fascists? I don't think so. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1651 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.250.205.35 |
Ok, you are officially a wacko. Nobody ever said this. And? You couldn't be further from the truth. Also? Putting "psuedo" in front of every adjective you use doesn't make your point (or make you look smart, since technically that should be hyphenated). How is any of this pseudo-intellectual, especially given the crap YOU'VE been spewing? And what the hell is a pseudo-elitist, anyway? That doesn't even make sense. Everyone else on here, even people arguing pro-chain, is making more sense than you. | ||
Czar Member Username: Czar Post Number: 3104 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 72.49.172.67 |
He also can't spell "pseudo" correctly. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2621 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.118.183 |
DialH, the only wacko is you, given your bragging about "being an elitist". And speaking of trying to appear smart, do you really think bragging about "being an elitist" makes you smart? Maybe using the name "hipster" makes you "smart" and "elite" too right? Again I ask you for absolute proof of your claim. Business models are not absolutes, nor is a quote from a newspaper writer (rather than a company spokesperson). Again, please support your claim that "CF corporate offices would never even entertain the notion of opening a business downtown". (key words: never entertain) Again, Czar will take cheap shots at anyone that doesn't agree with his politics. If I said Hitler was bad, you would find a way of defending him and claiming that he was good. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 1653 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.61.187.234 |
(a) I said I was an elitist because relatively speaking, I am. Apparently also a genius. (b) The screen name involving hipster actually goes back a good 10 years, back when it had more to do with swing dancing than little sprouts wearing low-rise jeans. Back when I registered it was just a handy name to use. (c) I never said anything about CF corporate offices entertaining anything. | ||
Metrodetguy Member Username: Metrodetguy Post Number: 2623 Registered: 11-2003 Posted From: 71.144.118.183 |
You're right DialH, despite both the public as well as the business community wanting otherwise, Downtown Detroit will only be developed based on the standards/desires of a tiny fringe. Nevermind that those standards don't exist anywhere other than textbooks. And yes, non-wackos routinely refer to themselves and genuises and elitist. Good job. And sorry, the claim comment was meant for Czar. |
