  Masterblaster Member Username: Masterblaster Post Number: 12 Registered: 03-2005 Posted From: 155.79.138.253 |
Hello, do you think that the significant decline of the city of Detroit contributed, to some extent, to the the decline of the American automobile industry? Or is it the other way around? Explain your point. Thank you. | ||
Huggybear Member Username: Huggybear Post Number: 228 Registered: 08-2005 Posted From: 68.79.113.90 |
Is this a real question? (Message edited by Huggybear on June 13, 2006) | ||
Bongman Member Username: Bongman Post Number: 1106 Registered: 12-2003 Posted From: 198.111.56.128 |
It's the other way around. The only reason people flocked here in the first part of the century was jobs. Both sets of my grandparents came here for that reason. 4 generations later, my family is moving out of the area for the same reason. I have 10 nieces & nephews all with degrees, and only two still live here. Richmond, Charlotte, Florida, Colorado...anywhere but here. They left for better opportunity, better weather, and for the most part, a cheaper cost of living. The areas they relocated in our filled with people from around the country who have done the same. I think this is a nice area to live, but I have a somewhat stable job. If I was struggling with my career, I wouldn't feel the same way. Without better employment opportunities, SE Michigan has and will continue to have a difficult time competing with other areas of the country. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1578 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
2 men enter, 1 man leaves. | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 1579 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 208.44.117.10 |
Huggybear, I liked your first response better. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
What are you talking about? The American Auto Industry is not in decline. There are about 1.1 million people employed in the U.S. automobile industry today, which is about 100,000 more than there were in 1979 (source, pages CRS-30 through CRS-32). Here is a table showing motor vehicle production in the USA and North America for the period 1977-2004.  | ||
Danny Member Username: Danny Post Number: 4279 Registered: 02-2004 Posted From: 141.217.174.231 |
Mikeg is right! The auto industry is in full swing YAY! Right now the national unemployment for 2006 is 4.7% So the FEDS will raise interest rates. the stock market will lose some shares, and the FOMC wants the money back from the banks for they think that government securities are going to be worthless and they then they will slow down the supply of money loans and each banks will owning other banks money. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 254 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
Production doesn't equal profitability. But since you brought it up, check page CRS-31. There, you can see that "Big 3" employment has dropped 60% since 1979. Michigan alone has lost 100,000 auto industry jobs since the late 70s...this is JOBS, period, not jobs tied to the "Big 3" like the former stat. Also, find income statements. That should be easy. Of particular note will probably be the inventory carrying costs. Then look back at your production chart. Then think. (Message edited by focusonthed on June 13, 2006) (Message edited by focusonthed on June 13, 2006) | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 358 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 129.9.163.105 |
Well, you could make the manufacturing of automobiles a socialist enterprise, with lots of jobs guarantied for life...........oh, wait, the eastern block tried that, and it didn't work. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
My only point was to counter the original post, which (perhaps inadvertantly) reflected: a) the false notion that the "American automoble industry" is in decline, when it is only the former "Big Three" which is suffering declining market share b) the parochial viewpoint that the Detroit area is still the center of the "American automoble industry". | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 707 Registered: 06-2004 Posted From: 69.209.186.246 |
The global auto industry in general and the US auto industry in particular are doing great; what's failed is General Motors and Ford. To your question, I think the city's decline was independent of but related to the decline at GM and Ford. Ironically, the root cause of the city's decline was the SUCCESS of GM and Ford through 1930. Their explosive growth caused the city to grow in a chaotic, unplanned and unsustainable fashion. The massive influx of factory works also created a lopsided regional culture that was over-represented by an under-educated, racially-polarized working class and under-represented by the merchants and professionals who patronize and sustain many features of urban life that we find so attractive. (Compare Detroit to Chicago) The hegemony of the Big 3 also contributed to (so it is argued) the culture of sprawl and the lack of mass transit. So, I would say, the car industry in the same fell swoop both built the city of Detroit and planted the seeds of its destruction. | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
Ray gives a succinct and accurate analysis, to which I would only add: a) the Chrysler Group of Daimler-Chrysler also belongs on the "critical" list - they have the same structural and legacy cost problems as Ford and GM (problems which are temporarily masked by some recent product successes) b) the success of the local auto industry in Detroit and the ability of their workers to buy and drive what they built caused the CBD to choke on auto traffic in the late 1920s. Instead of building new and bigger buildings to replace old substandard structures in the CBD, they were torn down to make parking lots - and that dense, urban feel was forever lost in downtown Detroit. c) when the Detroit traffic engineer's studies showed in 1947 that rush hour throughput on main arteries could be greatly increased by replacing streetcars with curbside bus service, GM's busses "sold themselves" and it was only a matter of time before Detroit's streetcars took a one-way trip south of the border. Today, the decisions that are driving and sustaining the American auto industry are not made here in the Detroit area - they made in places like Nagoya, Tokyo and Munich. Whether the former "Big Three" will ever reverse their market share slide depends on hard decisions that have yet to be made in places like Detroit, Dearborn, Lansing, and the US Bankruptcy Court in New York City. | ||
7milekid Member Username: 7milekid Post Number: 83 Registered: 01-2006 Posted From: 68.61.162.76 |
I really can't beleive that people actually think that General Motors or Ford will go bankrupt. If you really look into it and ignore all the hype for a few seconds it is easy to see that it is actually completely impossible. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 856 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
By really looking into it and ignoring all the hype for a few seconds, tell us why "it is actually completely impossible." | ||
Mikeg Member Username: Mikeg Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 69.136.155.244 |
I nominate this one for the "Discuss Detroit Post of the Day™"! This breezy opinion, dressed up with just the hint of supporting facts, is unfortunately held by thousands here in the metro Detroit area. It is symbolic of the kind of thinking that is holding this segment of the auto industry (and region) back and keeping the hard decisions from being made. | ||
Focusonthed Member Username: Focusonthed Post Number: 259 Registered: 02-2006 Posted From: 209.220.229.254 |
We all know the Japanese can't build a decent car. So we can just ignore them. We all know the Koreans can't build a decent car. So we can just ignore them. We all know the Japanese can't build a decent truck/SUV/minivan. So we can just ignore them. All things heard before in the Detroit area. Now it's: We all know Ford and GM will never go bankrupt. How much do we know? (Message edited by focusonthed on June 14, 2006) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 858 Registered: 10-2004 Posted From: 69.242.223.42 |
A security analyst following the automotive industry was on WJR (or WABC, I forgot which) a couple days ago. His prediction was that Ford and GM would both wind up being down to 1/3 or 1/4 of their former selves employee-wise. I guess that's better than being "bankrupt," but in all probability they will be totally restructured. DCX still has some attractive vehicles that sell, but they are still saddled with the same manner of legacy co$t$ that Ford and GM have. (Message edited by LivernoisYard on June 14, 2006) |
