Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Detroit and the decline of US Auto Industry Previous Next
Top of pageBottom of page

Masterblaster
Member
Username: Masterblaster

Post Number: 12
Registered: 03-2005
Posted From: 155.79.138.253
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:15 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello, do you think that the significant decline of the city of Detroit contributed, to some extent, to the the decline of the American automobile industry?

Or is it the other way around?

Explain your point. Thank you.
Top of pageBottom of page

Huggybear
Member
Username: Huggybear

Post Number: 228
Registered: 08-2005
Posted From: 68.79.113.90
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is this a real question?

(Message edited by Huggybear on June 13, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Bongman
Member
Username: Bongman

Post Number: 1106
Registered: 12-2003
Posted From: 198.111.56.128
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:43 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's the other way around. The only reason people flocked here in the first part of the century was jobs. Both sets of my grandparents came here for that reason. 4 generations later, my family is moving out of the area for the same reason. I have 10 nieces & nephews all with degrees, and only two still live here. Richmond, Charlotte, Florida, Colorado...anywhere but here. They left for better opportunity, better weather, and for the most part, a cheaper cost of living. The areas they relocated in our filled with people from around the country who have done the same.

I think this is a nice area to live, but I have a somewhat stable job. If I was struggling with my career, I wouldn't feel the same way. Without better employment opportunities, SE Michigan has and will continue to have a difficult time competing with other areas of the country.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1578
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:46 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

2 men enter, 1 man leaves.
Top of pageBottom of page

Dabirch
Member
Username: Dabirch

Post Number: 1579
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 208.44.117.10
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 8:47 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Huggybear, I liked your first response better.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 69
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What are you talking about? The American Auto Industry is not in decline.

There are about 1.1 million people employed in the U.S. automobile industry today, which is about 100,000 more than there were in 1979 (source, pages CRS-30 through CRS-32).

Here is a table showing motor vehicle production in the USA and North America for the period 1977-2004.
North American Motor Vehicle Production, 1977-2004
Top of pageBottom of page

Danny
Member
Username: Danny

Post Number: 4279
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.231
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mikeg is right! The auto industry is in full swing YAY! Right now the national unemployment for 2006 is 4.7% So the FEDS will raise interest rates. the stock market will lose some shares, and the FOMC wants the money back from the banks for they think that government securities are going to be worthless and they then they will slow down the supply of money loans and each banks will owning other banks money.
Top of pageBottom of page

Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 254
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:41 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Production doesn't equal profitability. But since you brought it up, check page CRS-31. There, you can see that "Big 3" employment has dropped 60% since 1979. Michigan alone has lost 100,000 auto industry jobs since the late 70s...this is JOBS, period, not jobs tied to the "Big 3" like the former stat.

Also, find income statements. That should be easy. Of particular note will probably be the inventory carrying costs. Then look back at your production chart. Then think.

(Message edited by focusonthed on June 13, 2006)

(Message edited by focusonthed on June 13, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

56packman
Member
Username: 56packman

Post Number: 358
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.105
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 1:49 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, you could make the manufacturing of automobiles a socialist enterprise, with lots of jobs guarantied for life...........oh, wait, the eastern block tried that, and it didn't work.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 70
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 2:45 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My only point was to counter the original post, which (perhaps inadvertantly) reflected:

a) the false notion that the "American automoble industry" is in decline, when it is only the former "Big Three" which is suffering declining market share

b) the parochial viewpoint that the Detroit area is still the center of the "American automoble industry".
Top of pageBottom of page

Ray
Member
Username: Ray

Post Number: 707
Registered: 06-2004
Posted From: 69.209.186.246
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 9:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The global auto industry in general and the US auto industry in particular are doing great; what's failed is General Motors and Ford.

To your question, I think the city's decline was independent of but related to the decline at GM and Ford. Ironically, the root cause of the city's decline was the SUCCESS of GM and Ford through 1930. Their explosive growth caused the city to grow in a chaotic, unplanned and unsustainable fashion. The massive influx of factory works also created a lopsided regional culture that was over-represented by an under-educated, racially-polarized working class and under-represented by the merchants and professionals who patronize and sustain many features of urban life that we find so attractive. (Compare Detroit to Chicago)

The hegemony of the Big 3 also contributed to (so it is argued) the culture of sprawl and the lack of mass transit.

So, I would say, the car industry in the same fell swoop both built the city of Detroit and planted the seeds of its destruction.
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 71
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Tuesday, June 13, 2006 - 10:37 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ray gives a succinct and accurate analysis, to which I would only add:
a) the Chrysler Group of Daimler-Chrysler also belongs on the "critical" list - they have the same structural and legacy cost problems as Ford and GM (problems which are temporarily masked by some recent product successes)
b) the success of the local auto industry in Detroit and the ability of their workers to buy and drive what they built caused the CBD to choke on auto traffic in the late 1920s. Instead of building new and bigger buildings to replace old substandard structures in the CBD, they were torn down to make parking lots - and that dense, urban feel was forever lost in downtown Detroit.
c) when the Detroit traffic engineer's studies showed in 1947 that rush hour throughput on main arteries could be greatly increased by replacing streetcars with curbside bus service, GM's busses "sold themselves" and it was only a matter of time before Detroit's streetcars took a one-way trip south of the border.

Today, the decisions that are driving and sustaining the American auto industry are not made here in the Detroit area - they made in places like Nagoya, Tokyo and Munich. Whether the former "Big Three" will ever reverse their market share slide depends on hard decisions that have yet to be made in places like Detroit, Dearborn, Lansing, and the US Bankruptcy Court in New York City.
Top of pageBottom of page

7milekid
Member
Username: 7milekid

Post Number: 83
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 68.61.162.76
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:11 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I really can't beleive that people actually think that General Motors or Ford will go bankrupt. If you really look into it and ignore all the hype for a few seconds it is easy to see that it is actually completely impossible.
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 856
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:31 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By really looking into it and ignoring all the hype for a few seconds, tell us why "it is actually completely impossible."
Top of pageBottom of page

Mikeg
Member
Username: Mikeg

Post Number: 72
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 69.136.155.244
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 6:18 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

I really can't beleive that people actually think that General Motors or Ford will go bankrupt. If you really look into it and ignore all the hype for a few seconds it is easy to see that it is actually completely impossible.




I nominate this one for the "Discuss Detroit Post of the Day™"! This breezy opinion, dressed up with just the hint of supporting facts, is unfortunately held by thousands here in the metro Detroit area. It is symbolic of the kind of thinking that is holding this segment of the auto industry (and region) back and keeping the hard decisions from being made.
Top of pageBottom of page

Focusonthed
Member
Username: Focusonthed

Post Number: 259
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 209.220.229.254
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We all know the Japanese can't build a decent car. So we can just ignore them.

We all know the Koreans can't build a decent car. So we can just ignore them.

We all know the Japanese can't build a decent truck/SUV/minivan. So we can just ignore them.

All things heard before in the Detroit area. Now it's:
We all know Ford and GM will never go bankrupt.

How much do we know?

(Message edited by focusonthed on June 14, 2006)
Top of pageBottom of page

Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard

Post Number: 858
Registered: 10-2004
Posted From: 69.242.223.42
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:59 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A security analyst following the automotive industry was on WJR (or WABC, I forgot which) a couple days ago. His prediction was that Ford and GM would both wind up being down to 1/3 or 1/4 of their former selves employee-wise.

I guess that's better than being "bankrupt," but in all probability they will be totally restructured. DCX still has some attractive vehicles that sell, but they are still saddled with the same manner of legacy co$t$ that Ford and GM have.

(Message edited by LivernoisYard on June 14, 2006)

Add Your Message Here
Posting is currently disabled in this topic. Contact your discussion moderator for more information.