Discuss Detroit Archives - Beginning January 2006 Is London the Detroit of Europe? Previous Next
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 136
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 9:13 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.derelictlondon.com/

Similar type of project to the once created by Lowell.
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Upinottawa
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Username: Upinottawa

Post Number: 421
Registered: 09-2005
Posted From: 198.103.184.76
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 9:16 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never been to London, but the answer to the question posed on the thread title is no.
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1953
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Username: 1953

Post Number: 867
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 209.104.146.146
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 9:20 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's certainly not the image of London one sees on the tele.
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Machoken
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Username: Machoken

Post Number: 1296
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 207.145.38.104
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 9:39 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Toilets? Lowell, thank you for not posting pics of abandoned toilets.
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Quinn
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Username: Quinn

Post Number: 755
Registered: 01-2005
Posted From: 64.139.64.80
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 9:53 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely not...London is a huge, vibrant city JAM PACKED with people riding public transportation. The number of fabulous, exquisite areas of London compared to the derelict areas, I'm sure, is higher. In Detroit...well...need I say more?

When we went last fall we visited Camden Town. I'm sure many of you would think it derelict by photos...but it was awesome...like an Eastern Market for clothes and furniture.

I don't think there is any comparison between Detroit and London...apples and oranges my friend.
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Futurecity
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Username: Futurecity

Post Number: 296
Registered: 05-2005
Posted From: 69.212.212.47
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:06 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

London would be the direct opposite of Detroit.
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Paulmcall
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Username: Paulmcall

Post Number: 720
Registered: 05-2004
Posted From: 68.40.119.216
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:19 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was in London three weeks ago and Detroit is not even close to it in stature. The place was packed downtown on the weekend.
London is close to being (if not) the financial capital of the world and the transportation is first class.
The city is a 24 hour city and vibrant. To even mention them in the same sentence is a joke.
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Ilovedetroit
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Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2336
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 63.149.5.130
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:21 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I lived in London for 14 months and was most recently there from Christmas to NY Eve. London in the 10 years since I have lived there I was amazed at how beautiful and cosmopolitan that London has become. Even Camden Town (kind of a dirty funky shopping area) has a Starbucks! My friends that came with me were amazed at the cleanliness and high quality of the food - frankly I was amazed at the changes in a few short years. Overall London is a total first rate city!
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Nip
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Username: Nip

Post Number: 94
Registered: 11-2003
Posted From: 68.21.44.169
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:24 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

London is more like the "New York City" of Europe. Manchester is more like Detroit.
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Lmichigan
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Username: Lmichigan

Post Number: 3864
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 24.11.154.56
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:25 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

London is one of the few truly world class cities (alpha cities) in the world among the likes of Paris, London, Tokyo, and New York in statue. Having visited London, the two are as different as night and day. Abandoned buildings does not a good comparison make.
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Spitty
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Username: Spitty

Post Number: 473
Registered: 07-2004
Posted From: 136.1.1.33
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:28 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

and Basildon would be like Taylor.
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Oldredfordette
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Username: Oldredfordette

Post Number: 896
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 68.60.177.56
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:57 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

London is fantastic. It has a working class vibe though, if you had to compare that to an American city it would be Chicago. Dagenham, where they used to build Fords, is Detroit-y.

Birmingham, Blackpool and Manchester is like Detroit. I've never made it to Liverpool, but people tell me it's industrial like here too. Like Billy Bragg says, "It's a Northern Industrial Town".
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Rberlin
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Username: Rberlin

Post Number: 550
Registered: 06-2005
Posted From: 75.7.193.182
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 11:45 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought we all agreed that Turin(o) was the Detroit of Europe. Or was that just the Detroit of Southern Europe, or Italy?
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 533
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 12:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cool Web site Detroitplanner. If anything, it goes to show that abandonment and blight are universal concepts. Some of the photos on the site if taken out of context could easily be in Detroit (especially the abandoned cars).

Is London's blight visually similar to Detroit? Yes. But the similarities end there. I have heard than Manchester and Detroit have a lot in common (including both being electronic music meccas of sorts).
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Aiw
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Username: Aiw

Post Number: 5619
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 209.216.150.127
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 12:15 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's too funny.

Not even close.

Like comparing Apples to Airplanes.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 139
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 63.85.13.248
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 12:20 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Eastside dog was the only one to get the point I was trying to make. Sometimes we take things out of context around here (downtown development vs neighborhood decline is an example). Good job.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 418
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.223.168.132
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 12:22 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We all seem to concur that London is no Detroit. I have never heard that comparison before. Maybe Manchester, maybe Birmingham ... not really.
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Danny
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Username: Danny

Post Number: 4285
Registered: 02-2004
Posted From: 141.217.174.223
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 12:28 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's AMAZING London Has one the most ghettohoods and slums in the world. there are over 700,000 vacant and abandon buildings all over the city, 100 times more than Detroit's vacant and abandon buildings. This is due to white-flight to the English countryside and its suburbs and the council's so-called urban renewal plans that didn't work.
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Jimg
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Username: Jimg

Post Number: 620
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 12:34 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Birmingham is close: former auto center of UK, some pretty rough areas, also very nice areas. There are not too many abandoned parts because land is at a premium pretty much anywhere in England.
Basildon like Taylor? Am thinking Essex might also be close.
London is fabulous. It is like Detroit because the music scene is so diverse although the jazz scene ain't what it was in the 80s...and the number of jazz record stores has shrunk.
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Hysteria
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Username: Hysteria

Post Number: 419
Registered: 02-2006
Posted From: 216.223.168.132
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 12:47 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The cities may have things in common - music scene, blight issues, etc. However, comparing them (apples to apples) is ridiculous.
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Ilovedetroit
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Username: Ilovedetroit

Post Number: 2338
Registered: 02-2005
Posted From: 69.246.54.234
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:17 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Basildon HAHAHAHA

I use to work in Basildon for Ford...yes very Taylor like. The entire Essex Region is known to be a bit "white trashy". The jokes on the radio were all the girls drive T top cars, w/ blue eye shadow and are named Tarnya or Sharon.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 361
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

London is as functional a very large city as you will ever find. The Tube is the best way to get around a big city--fast, reliable, convienient, priced about right. One of the first things I noticed was the number of OLD buildings (old like we don't know--Detroit's 85 year old buildings are still new compared to London's 3-400 year old buildings) being restored/refurbished. It appeared to me that restoration was the major industry as opposed to new construction (the big "phat$$$" industry here)
I left London and England with a sense that although expensive, there will be a civilized place left in the world after we in the US have trashed everything worthwhile in the never-ending pursuit to make someone wealthy more money this year than last.
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1509
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.34
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:40 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

London is definately on a different scale of vitality and vibrancy than Detroit, despite it's rough around the edges areas.

Never the less, it's one to add to the links pages. I'm sure Lowell and the creator of the website above would have some good discussions over a few pints.
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Tomoh
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Username: Tomoh

Post Number: 212
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 24.136.10.153
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 1:43 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In London, the toilets are made by famous French artists and on display in museums.
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2298
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.143
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 2:06 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

56Packman.... I don't know where you got 3,400 year old buildings. IIRC the Romans were the founders of Londonium, which would make the oldest building ruins (all that remains of Roman London) about 2,000 years old. Now if they found some Celtic ruins, then I wasn't aware of that.

Ironically ancient and medieval buildings have not survived very well in London. Part of that was the fault of the Great Fire of London of 1666, that pretty much wiped out all of old London, including old St. Paul's Cathedral, the largest medieval church in Britain.

Luckily Westminster, the administrative capital lies 4 miles west of London, and was spared the great conflagration. However the Houses of Parliaments had 2 great fires, one in 1512, and again in the great fire of 1834 that burned much of what was then known as "The Palace of Westminster" to the ground. So in Victorian times they rebuilt the seat of government and it became the "Houses of Parliament" we know today.

The major surviving part of the old Palace of Westminster is Westminster Hall, originally built by King William II (son of William I the Conqueror) around circa 1090. It had a new hammerbeam roof added in the 1390's, and today is where dead sovereigns lie in state before going to Westminster Abbey (a 13th century rebuilding of an 11th century Abbey) for funeral services, before going off to Windsor for burial(no monarch has been buried at Westminster Abbey for over 200 years).

So there are few medieval buildings surviving in London proper, except for the circa 1080 AD Tower of London, and the Courts of Justice (known as the Bailey's).

I would therefore say that Westminster Hall and the Tower of London are the oldest buildings in London today, both from the late 11th century.

Sorry to go of on such a tangent.... but the buildings of Europe facinate me just as much, if not more, than those of Detroit!

(Message edited by Gistok on June 14, 2006)
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Ndavies
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Username: Ndavies

Post Number: 1914
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 129.9.163.233
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 2:12 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let's also not forget the destruction that occured during WWII, London was severely fire bombed by Germany. Much of the city was built/rebuilt post WWII.
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Naturalsister
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Username: Naturalsister

Post Number: 729
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 68.255.240.120
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 2:16 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are only 1 or 2 American cities that could even come close to comparing to London. Get real.

later - naturalsister

P.S. How about just 1 - NY
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2299
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.143
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 2:19 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's right Ndavies.... and Prince Charles, an archair architect like all of us here on this forum, decried the ugly monoliths that were put up in what was old London (similar to what they did in central Frankfurt Germany). He lamented that the beautiful city rebuilt by the classic architecture by the famous 17th century architect Sir Christopher Wren, had been ruined by the ugly monstrosities of the International Style.

Prince Charles would be right at home as a poster on this forum.... he decried the new National Theatre on the Thames as charming as a "concrete bunker", and labeled one of the new constructions just opposite it as a giant "copying machine" (we call our version the "giant cheese grater"!).
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 362
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 2:33 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok- perhaps I should have left a space, If you look carefully at my post, you will see that I state 3-400 (three to four hundred). I may have been born on a thursday, but not last thursday.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 92
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.131.176.232
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 3:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gistok- perhaps I should have left a space, If you look carefully at my post, you will see that I state 3-400 (three to four hundred).

Haha, he looks like such an asshole now that you corrected it.
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Iheartthed
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Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 93
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.131.176.232
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 3:13 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yeah...

London like Detroit!!!1!1111!!oneeleventyo ne!!!!11!

How dare you make the comparison? It's a laughable thought, blah, blah, blah...
Granted, I've never been.

(Message edited by iheartthed on June 14, 2006)
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Gistok
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Username: Gistok

Post Number: 2305
Registered: 08-2004
Posted From: 4.229.81.143
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 3:21 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry 56packman, I stand chastened and rebuked! :-)

And Iheartthed.... is that alcohol on your breath?

(Message edited by Gistok on June 14, 2006)
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Bvos
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Username: Bvos

Post Number: 1513
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.238.170.33
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 3:25 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Doesn't London know that you're supposed to tear that sh*t down!?
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Eastsidedog
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Username: Eastsidedog

Post Number: 538
Registered: 03-2006
Posted From: 68.20.140.8
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 3:26 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's also important to note that Detroitplanner is suggesting that London, like Detroit, has more than it's share of blight and abandonment. But I'm sure their are other cities in Europe that are more blighted (and more like Detroit) than London.
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56packman
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Username: 56packman

Post Number: 363
Registered: 12-2005
Posted From: 129.9.163.234
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 3:50 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IheartD--I didn't change a thing, I just re-stated it.
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Detroitplanner
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Username: Detroitplanner

Post Number: 140
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.12.116.204
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 10:32 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've been to several cities in Ireland, places like Cork, Tipperary and even Dublin all show major signs of abandonment and squalor.

Even places like New York City have their Bronx. All I am suggesting is put Detroit into its proper context, and it does not look all that bad.

Consider that our major industry is a shell of its former self, we have little diversity in our economic base, and we are not doing all that badly. We open a couple of new or renovatted building downtown a year. The downtown is getting better in terms of what it offers instead of spiralling downward. Also for as much as I hate how the neighborhoods are ignored by the city, there were more than 1,000 new housing units built last year, this led the region. Not all of these have been downtown or in the cass corridor.

To boot, Detroit now has better school buildings than we've had in years.

This shows that the pendulum of development has swung again into a place where Detroit could be taking advantage of things. Instead we lay off police, don't cut the grass, and let enforcement of ordinances slide. This is the exact opposite of what should be done if we want to attract residents.

These are being put into place while rich Detroiters get tax breaks and the poor get tax increases (garbage fees). I might see my property taxes go down $50 a year due to the 3 mill decrease, but will see my garbage fees go from $0 to $300). How will this bring in more investment? How will this not be a burden on the poor? Will the garbage service improve due to the funds?

(Message edited by Detroitplanner on June 14, 2006)
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Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell

Post Number: 2698
Registered: 10-2003
Posted From: 66.167.210.191
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 11:10 pm: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


quote:

Toilets? Lowell, thank you for not posting pics of abandoned toilets.


Heh, well almost...

...and oops
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Pdtpuck
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Username: Pdtpuck

Post Number: 58
Registered: 01-2006
Posted From: 208.251.168.194
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 3:00 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

London, the Detroit of Europe....
Gretzky, the Jordan of hockey...
Kilpatrick, the Tupac of mayors...
Apples, the oranges of fruit...

Why does everything have to be compared to everything else?!?

How 'bout London, the......., uh, ummmmm, LONDON of Europe?
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Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed

Post Number: 100
Registered: 04-2006
Posted From: 64.131.176.232
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 9:26 am: Edit PostDelete PostMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was bored and checked out the population density of London and it's actually similar to Detroit's. So maybe it wasn't a bad comparison...?

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