  Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 465 Registered: 08-2006 |
So, are casino's good or bad for Detroit? They create hundreds if not thousands of jobs for Detroit, bring tourists downtown, help out the old skyline, and bring tax revenue downtown. They also seem to suck money out of the pockets of the poor. They drag sleazy people downtown and attract crime. Casino's a generally seen as a negative for a revitalizing downtown. The city seems to spend more time trying to attract them downtown than on fixing street lights, tearing down abandoned houses, and fixing roads and parks. So what do Detroiters think, do you like the casino's downtown or do you despise them as a sad last attempt by a stuggling city to survive? | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4956 Registered: 10-2003 |
Didn't you ask this just a few months ago, and I mean this exact same question? Maybe, I'm mistaken. | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 466 Registered: 08-2006 |
No, I don't think so. If I did, then it will be in the archives. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4958 Registered: 10-2003 |
My bad, perhaps it was asked on one of the other boards I read as it sounds very familiar. Looking through the archives I see a similar thread started by Lilpup that you might want to check out: https://www.atdetroit.net/forum/mes sages/76017/76476.html | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 467 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks Lmichigan. I have my opinions on the matter, I just wanted to start a debate. | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 159 Registered: 01-2004 |
I think the answer is yes -- they bring people downtown, create jobs and generate tax base for the city and state. Now in terms of gamblers spending money they shouldn't, that is another question. One perspective is they would still gamble -- over in Windsor or up north. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4959 Registered: 10-2003 |
My opinion is that the positives of the casinos outweigh the negatives, decidedly, and particularly in Detroit. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3317 Registered: 08-2004 |
I agree Lmichigan. And I have not noticed any perceptible crime increases. Downtown seems as safe as ever. The State Police do a good job of enforcement. And yes, if they didn't gamble here, they'd just go to Windsor or one of the Indian casinos. And as far as sleazy people go, no more so than any ordinary city. | ||
The_nerd Member Username: The_nerd Post Number: 357 Registered: 12-2003 |
Casinos and lottories = Tax on the stupid and desperate. | ||
Charlottepaul Member Username: Charlottepaul Post Number: 169 Registered: 10-2006 |
I think what is more interesting than 'bad vs. good' is the fact that neither the advocates nor the nay sayers got what they expected from the deal. Those advocating for them said that it would bring in visitors from all over and solve the city's financial problems, etc. Those who were against it said that they would increase crime and etc. Basically none of the above on either side of the issue happened. Sure the casinos contribute money in taxes and sure there are also probably more gambling addicts out there. Good or bad? Who really knows. I am probably one of only a few that is indifferent. | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1215 Registered: 12-2005 |
I'd rather close the Windsor casino than open Detroit casinos. Most patrons here are local and their investments involve only money changing hands instead of creating value. Better they invest that money in stocks. It made sense for Las Vegas, and maybe Mt. Pleasant, but not for Detroit. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4960 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, since I'm all for a diverse entertainment base in a city's downtown, I'm all for casinos as they provides another entertainment outlet/option. Choices in entertainment is key for a successful downtown, IMO. As for the aspect that they feed off the desperate, that sounds a lot like the argument for prohibition, that bars and saloons prey on those with problems. (Message edited by lmichigan on December 22, 2006) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3320 Registered: 08-2004 |
Only 1 of the 3 casinos is really going to deliver on the glitzy gaming palace that was touted back in the late 1990's... that is MGM Grand Detroit. Spending over 3/4 billion dollars on their new casino, only they are delivering what was originally promised. And it looks like only one casino (Greektown) is delivering on what was originally hoped for downtown... a casino integrated into the fabric of downtown, as opposed to stand alone fortresses, which is what the other 2 will become. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4961 Registered: 10-2003 |
MotorCity delivers in that it's the local's casino. They all serve their respective clientele, perhaps not like some may have hoped, but I say better the option of casino gaming and an entertainment choice than not. | ||
Digitaldom Member Username: Digitaldom Post Number: 547 Registered: 08-2004 |
I have heard otherwise as far as crime is concerned.. I have heard that many people have been robbed getting to greektown.. yet they never reported it.. so who knows.. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 595 Registered: 04-2006 |
Stand alone fortress?? there is a skywalk to the edison building! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3321 Registered: 08-2004 |
There is a skywalk from the parking structure to the Edison Building. IIRC, they are sharing the parking structure. But I would highly doubt that there is a skywalk from the casino proper to Edison. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4963 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think he was joking. At least, I hope so. | ||
Nellonfury Member Username: Nellonfury Post Number: 203 Registered: 03-2005 |
The new MGM Grand/Hotel Casino is the ONLY casino in Detroit that's gonna look outstanding and I agree with Gistok on this!!I'm looking forward to it a A year from now.Both Greektown and MotorCity are trash!!!!!Casino Winsdor is STILL my #1 favorite.... Both CASINO WINDSOR and the new MGM GRAND/HOTEL CASINO RULES!••••••••••••••• | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4964 Registered: 10-2003 |
Drunk post? | ||
Karl Member Username: Karl Post Number: 5506 Registered: 09-2005 |
Casinos exist for one reason: to vacuum the money out of your pockets, putting a minor part of it back into the local economy, then hauling most of it out of the city and state. Traditionally crime, bankrupcy, divorce all increase when gambling becomes local. Time spent by adults in casinos would seem better spent nearly anywhere else - but especially with their families. The only businesses attracted by gambling are those that benefit directly from it. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4966 Registered: 10-2003 |
Sounds like quite a few other businesses and industries, huh? | ||
Apbest Member Username: Apbest Post Number: 365 Registered: 03-2006 |
if that was a drunk post he's got to have one steady-ass hand for a drunk dude, I dont think he misspelled anything. Quite impressive | ||
Pam Member Username: Pam Post Number: 782 Registered: 11-2005 |
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Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 243 Registered: 04-2006 |
I saw MGM last month when I was back in Detroit... The parking structure was the most impressive part about it. That thing is H-U-G-E. Then again, the parking structures in Vegas are the same way. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 672 Registered: 09-2005 |
The Detroit Casinos were only a matter of time once Casino Windsor opened. Michigan/Detroit politicians really had no choice after witnessing Casino Windsor make an absolute killing as the only game in town. | ||
Taj920 Member Username: Taj920 Post Number: 161 Registered: 01-2004 |
The biggest mistake the City made with the casinos was not clustering them together to create some real energy. | ||
Bibs Member Username: Bibs Post Number: 624 Registered: 10-2003 |
Digitaldom - Did the casino rob the people? :o Or are the people getting robbed before they enter the casino? ;) | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 481 Registered: 08-2006 |
Do you think that these casino's will hurt the chances of people moving into downtown? Casino's aren't really high class things that people want to live near. | ||
Gambling_man Member Username: Gambling_man Post Number: 921 Registered: 11-2003 |
Digitaldom, please don't spread untrue rumors......your statement is patently false. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 4968 Registered: 10-2003 |
Milwaukee, to answer your question, no. Besides their size, they are just like any other entertainment option, and probably much better than living by a bar or nightclub district in terms of the problems these establishments have. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1994 Registered: 10-2004 |
Milwaukee, why do you continually use an apostrophe when making a plural with casino (such as in casino's in Milwaukee-speak) and some other words? The city of M'waukee (and Chicago) has an element of Polish-German in its vernacular. But casino's??? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 488 Registered: 08-2006 |
Sorry LY, I'm not the best grammar student. Me not like no think hard. Make me head hurt. | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1995 Registered: 10-2004 |
[pulling hair here...] You went to one of the best academic high schools in the US. Its mean ACT score for each class is usually in the 30s, whereas the best Metro Detroit schools (including the magnet schools) can average only a 22 or 23. In order to get in there, you took the equivalent of an IQ test in the eighth grade. But a person could still drown in a pond whose average depth is only two inches... | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 490 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's only gotten tougher to get into in recent history, I'm not really a bad student. I think I should make that clear. I'm just pretty lax on grammar when I post stuff here. I'm not typing a paper for class or anything. Just relax and focus on the issue rather than on the grammar. (Message edited by milwaukee on December 22, 2006) | ||
Livernoisyard Member Username: Livernoisyard Post Number: 1996 Registered: 10-2004 |
Marquette High back during 1957, when I attended, rejected over 80% of its applicants, based on IQ scores and elementary school performance. So, are you implying that the requirements for MUHS admission had slipped since then? | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 491 Registered: 08-2006 |
Check out the first thread on Detroit connections. | ||
Erikd Member Username: Erikd Post Number: 785 Registered: 10-2003 |
The full impact of the Detroit casinos has not yet been realized. The temporary casinos have already created about 8000 new jobs, and hundreds of millions in new yearly tax revenue. The temporary casinos draw dozens of busses filled with out-of-town visitors every day, but this is just a fraction of the true potential. There will be a huge increase in the number of out-of-town visitors when the casino hotels are completed. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 387 Registered: 01-2005 |
Good and bad. Charlottepaul and Gistok have expressed my views better than I could. | ||
Enduro Member Username: Enduro Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2006 |
I really don't see the "sleazy" people casinos bring. If anything they're less sleazy then the previous people loitering about. I don't see working girls walking the streets like in Vegas (at least no more than previously). I'm not aware of any mafia activity surrounding the casinos. It seems to me a lot of the anti-casino people are the same people that want to make moral decisions for me under the guise of "my own good" or some other paranoia. I live two blocks from a casino and I've been in there a total of three times in two years. Two times were just for the buffet. It's nice to have an option though. I also think living by the casino makes my neighborhood SAFER since there's an increased police presence. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 162 Registered: 08-2005 |
Do you think that these casino's will hurt the chances of people moving into downtown? Casino's aren't really high class things that people want to live near. Look at where the casinos (or should it be casinoes?) are built. 1) MC is at Grand River and the Lodge. Not really downtown and I remember someone else in another thread saying (paraphrasing heavily) it might as well be on the far east side or out in the burbs compared to downtown. You do have Woodbridge up the street, a great place to live, but directly around MC, it almost seems bombed out. 2) MGM is in the Lodge, I-75, Grand River, and Bagley quadrant. I suppose that would be the very northwest corner of the CBD/downtown. Not much living around there besides the Leland but go a bit further southwest and you have what seems to be a resurging Corktown. 3) Greektown is in the heart of Greektown (duh, I M SMRT). Again, not much living around there save with some apartments/lofts above Niki's, and on Monroe, and the Millender Center but I somehow doubt that they are having trouble with the vacancy rate. And I have to agree with Erikd in the statement that we won't fully know the effects of the casinos until a few years after the permanent ones go up. I have a poker-playing coworker and he complains about the way tournaments are run at the three casinos. So once the new places go up, with more room and space, you can hopefully create better/more varied tournaments to draw in more players (primarily for poker). That is, if this poker-playing fever doesn't subside anytime soon. (Message edited by Sticks on December 23, 2006) | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2006 |
It's not like they're in the heavily populated areas and there arent't any schools around them so it's not like it'll rub off on any kids. | ||
Royce Member Username: Royce Post Number: 1971 Registered: 07-2004 |
Well, technically, Scs100, Cass Tech is only a few blocks from MotorCity Casino. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 3356 Registered: 08-2004 |
The only thing that might happen, and that word "might" is iffy... is if the stretch of Grand River between MotorCity and MGM gets developed. And I don't mean pawn shops and check cashing places. Maybe the city will encourage development of Grand River into a nice entertainment zone. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4374 Registered: 10-2003 |
Actually, when it comes to pawn shops the City is quite stringent regarding location and relocating. A friend of mine bought a couple of shops within the City to secure the licenses with the plan to move them closer to the Casinos, the City said no way to the relocations. If you're interested, he's trying to sell them now. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2006 |
True Royce, but I'm referring more towards the elementary and middle schools. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3445 Registered: 10-2003 |
Jams seems like your friend was trying to make a buck of of those who probably would have been down on theirs... | ||
Milwaukee Member Username: Milwaukee Post Number: 515 Registered: 08-2006 |
"A friend of mine bought a couple of shops within the City to secure the licenses with the plan to move them closer to the Casinos, the City said no way to the relocations." Is that an attempt to keep low price businesses out of downtown and away from the casinos? If the city wants to create nice neighborhoods or an entertainment district around the casinos, then its a good idea to keep pawn shops away. | ||
Jams Member Username: Jams Post Number: 4384 Registered: 10-2003 |
Ummmm yeah, why else would someone own a pawnshop? But from a business perspective, what is the difference between his enterprise and the Casinos or the Rock/Quicken project that seems to be so desirable as part of the CBD to many on this forum? A question arises to me about the Council "protecting" the residents from these type of establishments from moving into the CBD area allowed those prior to the ordinance to have a monopoly. Is that a better solution? | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3446 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well in light of how you put it I see what you are saying. I guess to me it seems sort of predatory for him to have wanted to move them that close to the casinos. And then I look at the fact that he after finding out he could not relocate them, decides to sell them. That's what I meant when I made my prior post. It seemed as if his whole purpose was as sordid as those of the casino itself... Thats all I was saying. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 389 Registered: 01-2005 |
What is sordid about someone starting a legal business for the purpose of making a profit? Is a doctor's medical practice sordid because the doc makes money treating very sick people? | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 7701 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sordid is too powerful a word to use, I believe I know the man Jams is talking about. He is brilliant, shrewd, and calculating, but I would never tag him with sordid. I don't think anyone would want to stay in the pawn business willingly...between those down on their luck and those who want to find bargains on the stuff others had to pawn but couldn't recover, it's GOT to be one of the most depressing businesses to run daily...one step above a homeless shelter, and perhaps two or three above a casino. Heh. 3rdworld, Actually, if they are merely playing the FDA game and dumpling pills into people to placate their symptoms, yet nearly NEVER healing the underlying true problems...then yes, doctors within the medical system can certainly be described as sordid. See definition #2...it all depends upon their deepest motivations. You can see clearly whether they are mercenary by how they act when the money isn't there...some of the doctors I know would work for free if they could. Shit, where does that leave me with my testimony about the pawn shop owner?! |
