  Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 177 Registered: 03-2007 |
Today as i was lookin out the window i saw workers coming in and out of the UNITED ARTIST THEATER!!!!i saw atleast 10 workers. does anyone have any clue wat couple be happening in there,there werent just touring, they appear to be working. please tell my dream theater is preping for something great. | ||
Southen Member Username: Southen Post Number: 168 Registered: 08-2006 |
Not sure, but I heard a security system has been installed. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5511 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wow... | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 178 Registered: 03-2007 |
there's gotta be a reason for this sudden interest. 20 straight years of nothin, now there adding a security system,,,something about to go down, the soon arrival of 2 neighboring casino an hotel resorts,plus a probable red wings new home, and the success of a restored PARK AVENUE..QUICKEN LOAN? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9179 Registered: 10-2003 |
or they are just fed up with punk explorers and graf. artists trashing the place. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4317 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well I just got some pics not more than an hour ago of the United Artists Building/Theatre, so I guess this is as good as any time to give a background on it.... The United Artists Theatre chain was born soon after the United Artists Studios were formed in the mid 1920's. The founders were silent film stars Douglas Fairbanks Sr., his wife "America's Sweetheart" Mary Pickford, Charlie Chaplin, and silent film director D. W. Griffiths (he directed such silent films such as "Intolerance" and "Birth of a Nation"). The first United Artists Theatres were a trio found in Los Angeles, Chicago and Detroit. Detroit architect C. Howard Crane designes all 3 theatres in a "Spanish Gothic" design that had traces of art deco in them as well. Although they were similar, the trio were each easy enough to identify, since they had different layouts. The Los Angeles UA had 2,200 seats and opened in 1927 (it is a Jehovah's Witness Church today). The Chicago UA had 1,739 seats, and was installed into an existing space (an older theatre was gutted), and was razed in 1990. The Detroit United Artist Theatre had 2,070 seats, and included a 20 story office block:  Note: how the building facade has changed since a mid 20th century rehab. The Corinthian columns and arches around the 2nd and 3rd floors were removed and modernized. Note the former Tuller Hotel to the right of the UA Building (razed circa 1990). There is a small parking lot between these buildings. As of earlier this year, that parking lot was NOT owned by Ilitch Holdings. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4318 Registered: 08-2004 |
The Detroit United Artists Theatre opened on February 3, 1928. It was less Gothic and more Art Deco than its' Los Angeles sibling. The 2,070 seat theatre had a very unique auditorium to it. The procenium and stage look like something out of an Indiana Jones lost temple movie... or even like a lost civilization gateway out of a 1930's Tarzan movie...  Film star Mary Pickford added a few Hollywood touches to C. Howard Cranes designs (such as colorful cove lighting) to give it more of a stage set look. The auditorium sidewalls had massive fancy organ grilles with a lacy grillwork. Theatre historian David Naylor said that "C. Howard Cranes use of the exotic Gothic tracery in his 3 Spanish Gothic theatres was "without precedent". The sidewalls had a look of castle or monastery walls with Gothic Oriel windows, and (very unexpectedly) busts of Indian maidens. Where the walls meet the ceiling Crane used a design element from Britain's Westminster Abbey (Edward VII Chapel), namely Gothic fan vaulting:  There was a main floor (orchestra level), a mezzanine and a balcony to the Detroit United Artists Theatre. Because Bagley Ave (where the theatre entrance is) and Clifford Ave (where the back of the theatre is located) have a difference of 50 degrees in direction, C. Howard Crane came up with an interesting solution to take care of this difference. He designed a circular inner "Rotunda Lobby":  Such a unique lobby space was not found in either the LA or Chicago UA. It had very ornate and fancy grilles and grillwork along and above the balcony railings. This unique filigree plasterwork was unlike that found in any other theatre. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4319 Registered: 08-2004 |
And then there is the theatre today, which SOUTHEN captured so marvelously in his gallery of pictures. I hope he doesn't mind me posting just one of them... the upper canopy over the procenium arch that shows the absolutely fantastic plasterwork that C. Howard Crane designed:  It is this jumble of fantastic plasterwork, as well as all of the protruding details throughout the auditorium that gives the Detroit United Artists fantastic accoustics. C. Howard Crane perfected his mastery of accoustics in Orchestra Hall (1919) and the Opera House (1922). By 1928 when he built the Detroit United Artists, he produced what could arguably be called his most accoustically perfect performance venue of all. Theatre historians consider that of C. Howard Cranes 250 theatre designs, his twin Fox masterpieces for Detroit and St. Louis are his finest theatres. His next best theatre designs were identified as his United Artists Theatres. With the smallest of the 3 (the Chicago UA) already gone, it would be a shame to lose the Detroit United Artists Theatre, one of the greatest contributions to movie palaces... the "architecture of fantasy". (Message edited by Gistok on May 16, 2007) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4321 Registered: 08-2004 |
As long as the theatre portion of the building's steel framework is usable, then the the theatre's plaster shell can be recreated/restored. The Capitol's plaster shell was 90% replaced when it became the Detroit Opera House. As is the American way... just because something CAN be saved, doesn't mean that it WILL be saved. | ||
Kathinozarks Member Username: Kathinozarks Post Number: 488 Registered: 11-2006 |
Thank you Gistok, I muted the television to read your post and immerse myself in the pictures! | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 318 Registered: 04-2004 |
They check the doors every so often to make sure they are locked too on this building. Usually when they arrive, surprise surprise, doors are unlocked. About time they do something to secure that place. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 729 Registered: 11-2005 |
Ilitch wouldn't be putting a security system into a building he was going to tear down. That just doesn't make sense. I'll cross my fingers but something doesn't make sense in all this: If he wants to build a new hockey arena - which he won't get public funding for given the economy and budget deficit - how could he afford to restore the UA? I mean, he's rich, but he's not THAT rich. Not rich enough to pay tens of millions for salaries on a baseball team, tens of millions for a hockey team, waaaaaaaaaaay more than that for a new arena AND millions on the UA. Maybe he's going to sell it? That'd be a dream. But something tells me he: a) Doesn't want anyone else making money on his turf (aka Caesarland, aka Ilitchville, aka Monopoly! Monopoly!). b) Doesn't want anyone competing with the Fox Theatre. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 739 Registered: 11-2005 |
I've never spelunked inside the UA, but I just don't see Ilitch dropping the money to save it. Seriously. http://forgottendetroit.com/ua t/photos.html | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1225 Registered: 06-2006 |
Ilitch and the city have said they are marketing the UA building w/ the Statler site together...perhaps they found an interested party... | ||
Canuckr Member Username: Canuckr Post Number: 65 Registered: 02-2005 |
I dont think anything will happen with the threatre portion.. The office portion, that is a different story.. Some crummy pixors of the threatre part.. http://www.pbase.com/canuckr/u nited_artists_building | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9183 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Liability? I don't know exactly how it works but what if an explorer breaks his leg in there. How much can he sue Ilitch for? | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1185 Registered: 11-2004 |
A lot. That dumbass "explorer" might not win, but the case would be costly to defend in attorney fees. I'm sure a lot of trial lawyers are salivating at the chance to take Ilitch to court. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2470 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: building still standing = steel still "useable" Ilitch is just doing some asbestos abatement before he gets a city subsidy to tear down the UA, and add to the Macedonian Parking Empire. | ||
Rhymeswithrawk Member Username: Rhymeswithrawk Post Number: 740 Registered: 11-2005 |
Liability? I don't know exactly how it works but what if an explorer breaks his leg in there. How much can he sue Ilitch for? But he isn't doing this with his other properties. Besides, it'd be far more effective if he just had security guards slash their tires and pop their back windows (see related post). | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 321 Registered: 04-2004 |
Honestly, I don't see why some of you people get so enraged over urban exploration. I can understand if vandalism is being done or boards are being pried off for forced entry, there would be an issue. [please note that sentence, because some of you don't read.] But a good majority are just out there taking photos and leaving no trace of their presence. It's really only a problem between the building owner and the trespasser, not the forum. So why get so upset over nothing? Enough of the speculation. The UA receives frequent checkups to ensure the building is secure. 1. Because Ilitch does not want to see paint return to the windows. 2. The building is dangerous inside. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4324 Registered: 08-2004 |
Yes, the United Artists Building (with all the painted windows) was on the front cover of the NATIONAL TRUST PRESERVATION magazine a while back (national circulation 700,000), painting Ilitch as a slumlord on a national level. What will become of the United Artists complex remains to be seen. I'm still waiting to see what Dan Gilbert will do about Quicken. And as for Ilitch being able to afford a building and/or theatre rehab, he can afford it... his wife does own MotorCity Casino (taking in about a million per day), as well as his revenue on sports, entertainment and Pizza. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9190 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: A good majority of drunk drivers do not cause accidents but still present a dangerous situation (Yes, I know the consequences and odds of a drunk causing an accident or death are worse). Laws are not situationally based. If you are breaking into a building or tresspassing you are breaking the law. In addition it is not up to these people to decide what is OK to trespass into and what is not. It is funny how so many threads discuss the lawlessness and lack of respect in the city but 'urban explorers' get a free pass for breaking the law. Too much selectivity on which laws can be broken and by whom. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1230 Registered: 06-2006 |
"It is funny how so many threads discuss the lawlessness and lack of respect in the city but 'urban explorers' get a free pass for breaking the law. Too much selectivity on which laws can be broken and by whom." People tend to worry less about those who commit victimless crimes, for obvious reasons... | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9195 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: I agree and understand that specifically with priority to police response. I think however we as a society would be better suited and the city would be better suited if people didn't cherry pick which laws were OK for them to break. | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 913 Registered: 02-2006 |
Like I always say... If it's not yours, don't touch it. | ||
The_rock Member Username: The_rock Post Number: 1747 Registered: 11-2003 |
So what were the shops that occupied the street level of the UAB? I know that NBD was on the corner of Bagley and Clifford, then there was Signer's Smoke Shop, a shoes store (Allan's/Edmonds?)and that's all that I can recall. Had to be a few more. I know there was a small parking lot between the UAB and the Tuller Hotel. I'm talking early or mid-60's. | ||
Mdoyle Member Username: Mdoyle Post Number: 77 Registered: 10-2006 |
I dont want this too turn into a thread hijack on urban ex but isn't there something to be said of some urban explorers who hope to bring what they are documenting to a wider audience generating awareness and interest about the current state of things. A long time Urban Explorer friend of mine recently was interviewed by Michigan Public Radio about what they do and why. The show is going to be run nationally on NPR's Weekend Edition. This friend of mine strives to create awareness through artwork, documentation and knowledge. In the process of their many years of urban exploration they have been able to meet with developers and friends of the city who have gotten them into many buildings legally. While the outside of buildings to some may be enough, others are moved by the interiors where people once lived, worked and were entertained. Like many church's the interiors of these buildings are truly awe inspiring and Im glad there are people around documenting it. To the people who call themselves urban explorers that pry open doors, smash through windows, tag all over and then tell the entire internet community how and where they got in, well thats just irresponsible. Read the introduction to the book Ghostly Ruins: America's Forgotten Architecture by Harry Skrdla it eloquently describes urban exploration and the need for documentation. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4327 Registered: 08-2004 |
Actually The_rock (read the last paragraph of my first post) that parking lot has been there since the UA was built. There used to be a church at the corner of Bagley & Park Ave., with the nave of the church going along Bagley. Eventually that church was torn down to build the newer (southern) half of the Tuller Hotel. I assume that that parking lot was the remainder of the church property, when the church was torn down. That lot, and a larger lot on the W. Adams & Clifford Ave. corner of the UA/Tuller block are (as of the beginning of 2007) owned by the estate of a Harold Shapiro of Bloomfield Hills, and not Ilitch owned, like the rest of the block. | ||
Michmeister Member Username: Michmeister Post Number: 181 Registered: 10-2006 |
The bigger crime is letting these works of art decay to the point of where they are now!!!!!! But like mama said, two wrongs don`t make a right. | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1472 Registered: 11-2003 |
The UA had such great acoustics that the DSO used it for recording, even when it was not longer used. A few months ago on the DSO Unmasked program on WRCJ, one of the players talked about recording there and there was no heat, so they had to use large propane heaters. But they person doing the recording hated the sound in Ford Auditorium so they used the UA. And on another note, don't you need electricity to have a security system? I would assume the UA has none in its current state. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4329 Registered: 08-2004 |
The DSO director was Guenther Herbig at the time, IIRC. I believe Antal Dorati was already gone in the 1980's when they did the United Artists DSO recordings. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 646 Registered: 01-2005 |
E_Hemingway: Wrong. Anybody with the filing fee can file a lawsuit, but the plaintiff in the situation mentioned here would have to find the stupidist lawyer in MI to represent him. That case would be summarily dismissed. I've been victimized by someone who trespassed on my property and broke his leg, and sued. Case dismissed immediately. If the plaintiff had $10 in assets I'd have gone after him for costs. (Being secured as it is it's not an attractive nuisance either.) | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9201 Registered: 10-2003 |
I was mistaken on that as well then. Thanks for the clarification. Do the laws in this matter vary from state to state. I have read of some ridiculous suits that resulted in large awards. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1233 Registered: 06-2006 |
A lot of times those ridiculous judgments you hear about get either overturned on appeal or have the damage awards greatly reduced, which means they aren't even consistent with the laws of the state in which the case was heard... All the states have pretty sound laws now to protect property owners from lawsuits like those...unfortunately, activist judges and stupid jurors exist everywhere | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9202 Registered: 10-2003 |
Good to hear common sense prevails in most of these situations. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4330 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the link Rhymeswithrawk! The fan vaulted ceiling of the outer lobby: http://forgottendetroit.com/ua t/13.htm The profusion of detail in the plasterwork in the outer lobby: http://forgottendetroit.com/ua t/15.htm http://forgottendetroit.com/ua t/14.htm None of us know for sure what will be come of this building and theatre. I have a tendency to think it will be all or nothing. I'm not sure how structurally connected they are to each other (remember the Michigan?). Back in 1990 I was in the Capitol Theatre (Detroit Opera House). And by looking at its' ruined condition I was saying... it's too far gone, there's no way it can be brought back... I won't make that assumption again...  | ||
Wolverine Member Username: Wolverine Post Number: 322 Registered: 04-2004 |
"I think however we as a society would be better suited and the city would be better suited if people didn't cherry pick which laws were OK for them to break." I can agree with that Jt1, but I think most urban explorers think on a level that by going into abandoned buildings they only risk hurting themself and no one else. Your drunk driving example is a bit excessive. Instead, I would compare it to driving and going a couple miles over the speed limit. Not that bad, but still illegal and wrong. My point was more about people getting overworked about the issue. Wishing for urban explorers to get shot at or injured by falling debris has been stated from time to time on these boards. However, I do respect your opinion about the blatant illegality of it. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9204 Registered: 10-2003 |
I may go over board on my comments about the fate of people in the heat of arguing so you are right. I just have an issue with the 'it is Detroit so we can do it' or the 'Yes, it's breaking the law but who is it hurting mentality.' I see it the same as the graf artists that claim they have a right to tag a building because it is empty. It is the same as the 'there is shit everywhere so I can litter mentality.' Things are messed up in the city but that doesn't give people the right to do what they want with other people's properties. Is this a priority for the city or the police? No. Is it something that causes serious damage to the city? No. It however doesn't make it right. My drunk driving example was clumsy but the point was that let's say 1 in 100 explorers go in and tear places up it is still 1 in 100 just like (and I have no idea of the stats) 1 in 100 drunk drivers cause an accident. More about the percentages of people that cause problems wih their actions. Clumsy execution all the same. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1302 Registered: 12-2005 |
This is one of the records recorded by the DSO under Dorati at the UA   | ||
Elevator_fan Member Username: Elevator_fan Post Number: 19 Registered: 04-2004 |
Gistok: The L.A. UA is a church, all right, but not Jehovah's Witness. Read more here: http://www.universitycathedral .com/ Tours are offered on Saturdays through the L.A. Conservancy, though the U.A. is not included every Saturday. Call to confirm: http://laconservancy.org/tours /tours_main.php4 | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1658 Registered: 10-2003 |
The L.A. United Artists became home to Dr. Gene Scott? What a hoot! Dr. Gene was a nutcase! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4331 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the links Elevator_fan. The Los Angeles picture book I have on their Broadway Movie Palaces lists the Jehovah's Witnesses as the owners. Maybe they sold it, or it was an error. It is interesting to see the Los Angeles United Artists restored in full polychrome color. The Detroit United Artists no longer shows any color on most interior surfaces. But this was the same scenario back in 1990 when I saw the Capitol (Detroit Opera House) in its' ruinous state before restoration. You could not make out any color scheme. And just look at that colorful performance space since it was restored to its' 1922 original color scheme. Maybe the LA United Artists color palette was also used on the Detroit United Artists Theatre. | ||
Russix Member Username: Russix Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2006 |
I keeping seeing an engineer from JC Beal(did the Kales renovation) looking around the place and referencing his blueprints. And today some guy had a mini streetsweeper cleaning up the sidewalks inside the fence. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1318 Registered: 01-2005 |
56packman that's the gayest thing I've ever seen! Thank you for making my night! | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4335 Registered: 08-2004 |
Maybe they want to clean the area outside, and find a secure and safe walking route inside, before showing it to Dan Gilbert? | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1311 Registered: 12-2005 |
Quinn, run your cursor over the picture and see the caption. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4337 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hey 56packman, give us the scoop on the Detroit United Artists Theatre organ... Do you know where it is today? With the acoustics, it must have sounded awesome when it was still there. (Message edited by Gistok on May 18, 2007) | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1312 Registered: 12-2005 |
Internet for two: The UA organ was intact, minus two ranks, the brass trumpet and brass sax (so called because of their polished brass resonators that look like the bell end of a trumpet), those sets had disappeared by the late 1950's. I saw the UA Wurlitzer in the theatre in 1975, it was amazingly intact--aside from the two missing sets and about a 16th inch of dust covering everything it was totally unmolested. It was purchased as part of the DuMochelle auction (put forth by AAA, who began the process of de-valuing the building to line their pockets) by a local party who had it restored and installed it in their new restaurant "Pied Piper Pizza Peddler" in the Universal mall in Warren, which opened in 1980-81. They had the plain veneered sides of the console painted white then had a custom van-type artist airbrush a scene of the pied piper of Hamlin doing his thing. That restaurant went belly up in 1983-84 ish and the organ was removed and sold. It is now located in the Long center for the performing arts in Lafayette, IN (formerly known as the Mars theatre), sans the van mural. The UA was regarded as a particularly good by the old timers, in view of the building's design and the large area of grille work in front of the chambers. Big openings right into the room, always a good approach. Crane did the same trick at the Broadway Capitol (now Detroit Opera house) and that Wurlitzer was regarded as the best T.O. in Detroit in the era.  Here’s what those brass pipes look like viewed from the top looking down | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4338 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the info 56packman, I knew you would come thru! It's sad to see that AAA Michigan was actually responsible for the "pillage" of the United Artists Theatre and Building, which was their Headquarters until enticed to move to Fairlane by Ford in 1972. It reinforces why I'm glad I switched auto insurance companies to someone else earlier this year! One other interesting item about the Broadway-Capitol (Detroit Opera House)... in 1922 when they opened they had curtains (instead of grillwork) over their organ screens, and didn't they have a "Hillgreen-Lane" (IIRC) Organ or some name like that before they got their Publix 1 Wurlitzer circa 1925? I remember reading in the Theatre Historical Society Annual about Detroit, where the Broadway Capitol in 1925 switched from drapery to grillwork, which was a refreshing reversal of the usual scenario for old theatre organ screens. Too bad that the Detroit Opera House organ is in the Oakland CA Paramount. It would have made for a nice addition to the Detroit Opera House. Is it true that most Symphony and Opera houses don't have organs? I know that Clevelands "Severance Hall", their symphony hall, has an organ. But Orchestra Hall never had one (based on the assumption I see no organ grilles in the hall). | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1313 Registered: 12-2005 |
here is the UA Wurlitzer, in situ | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1885 Registered: 04-2005 |
Gistok, IIRC the Orchestra Hall Organ was moved to the DIA theater. I have no proof of this. | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1316 Registered: 12-2005 |
No, the orchestra hall organ was identical to the DIA Cassavant, but was a separate instrument. I played at the DIA in the early 80's before the well-attended 3-D movie series. I remember one show, I think it was "house of Wax" when I got the crowd so wound up they weren't having any of Elliot Wilheim's introduction. He wasn't exactly happy about that. The Orchestra hall organ was removed and its bits and pieces were scattered throughout church organs in Toldeo by a particularly notorious technician from Toledo. | ||
Psip Member Username: Psip Post Number: 1886 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thanks for the background 56Pac, I always wondered about that. The recored is now clear. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4351 Registered: 08-2004 |
For the folks who live/work nearby... do keep us posted on the comings and goings at the Detroit United Artists... | ||
Gotdetroit Member Username: Gotdetroit Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2005 |
If they want to clean it up for Gilbert, maybe they could try sweeping up the broken car glass from the front of the building that has been sitting there for a week. I have noticed one new (to me) security camera on the Michigan Building side of the UA. | ||
Magic_mushroom Member Username: Magic_mushroom Post Number: 28 Registered: 12-2005 |
Here is a picture of the UA's former organ as well as some technical info on it. http://theatreorgans.com/cicat os/Organs/long.htm | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 650 Registered: 01-2005 |
Russix: Those J. C. Beal people you saw working around the UA are from J. C. Beal Demolition Co. I asked a friend to drive over there and he talked w/ one of the guys and that was the logo on the three trucks they were working our of. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4372 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the bad news 3WC. I wonder what Michigan Building owner Anthony Pieroni is thinking... Clifford is not that wide of a street, and the distance betweent the 13 story Michigan Building and 20 story UA Building is not that great. With his litigation over the damage the Statler demo folks did to his AAA Building, he's probably not real thrilled about another demolition nearby. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 824 Registered: 04-2006 |
So the UA is a goner? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4374 Registered: 08-2004 |
We don't really know... but in this instance... no news is bad news!  I can already hear the Ilitch spin doctors... well the UA is coming down, but guess what we're gonna save Chin Tiki, Moose and GAR! (Message edited by Gistok on May 23, 2007) | ||
Verifiable Member Username: Verifiable Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2007 |
Has Illitch acquired the historic Moose Lodge in downtown Detroit, and what are his intentions? | ||
Southen Member Username: Southen Post Number: 171 Registered: 08-2006 |
Yeah pretty sure JC Beal doesnt do demolition work. There web site is full of links to preservation groups they are associated with. Plus after a quick browse I saw nothing of involving demolition of entire buildings with what they do. | ||
Burnsie Member Username: Burnsie Post Number: 989 Registered: 11-2003 |
Gistok-- I wouldn't say AAA Michigan "pillaged" the UA. It sold some stuff, but the heavy duty smashing and stealing wasn't done until many years after they moved out. | ||
Verifiable Member Username: Verifiable Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2007 |
Southern, interesting that was your take on the Beal Group of Companies ... Direct from the Beal Inc. Demolition Contracting website: "Beal Incorporated provides demolition services, specializing in historic building renovations, for a variety of clients throughout Michigan. The company specializes in interior demolition and lead/asbestos abatement with projects sizes ranging from $10,000 to over $1,000,000. BEAL also offers a wide range of other services including; emergency services, dumpster and waste hauling, and recycling services. "The company, formed in January 2006, is rapidly developing into one of the leading demolition service companies in the state of Michigan. BEAL Inc. is the team to call for demolition services when a client is faced with a comprehensive renovation of a historic or other complicated structure. BEAL has the best and most efficient equipment, technology, processes, and people." | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 837 Registered: 11-2004 |
Beal does do demolition work, on the About Beal of their main website is this: Beal Incorporated - demolition and abatement services, specializing in historic buildings and complicated structures work. Which lead to this link: http://www.gobeal.com/ Beal Incorporated provides demolition services, specializing in historic building renovations, for a variety of clients throughout Michigan. The company specializes in interior demolition and lead/asbestos abatement with projects sizes ranging from $10,000 to over $1,000,000. BEAL also offers a wide range of other services including; emergency services, dumpster and waste hauling, and recycling services. The company, formed in January 2006, is rapidly developing into one of the leading demolition service companies in the state of Michigan. BEAL Inc. is the team to call for demolition services when a client is faced with a comprehensive renovation of a historic or other complicated structure. BEAL has the best and most efficient equipment, technology, processes, and people (Message edited by eric on May 24, 2007) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4384 Registered: 08-2004 |
Burnsie, I know AAA only sold off what could be removed. I was just pissed at them for moving to Dearborn to Fairlane Town Center. Thanks Verifiable and Eric... Now that begs the question... are we talking about the same stuff that is going on in the Book-Cadillac type of "demolition services" to be followed by restoration/renovation? Or are we talking about "demolition services" so that the building will be coming down? That begs the question, is there much of a difference between demolition work for restoration, and demolition work for building demolition? Somehow I don't think that Beal does the latter (bringing down a building)... but they could be prepping it for someone else to do that.... OR are they gutting it for a restoration/renovation? I guess we'll have to see what other observable clues come up... (Message edited by Gistok on May 24, 2007) | ||
Verifiable Member Username: Verifiable Post Number: 29 Registered: 05-2007 |
Demolition Crew working on site at Detroit's United Artists Theater Building Note they do asbestos abatement and the like, something likely needed before the wrecking ball could be brought in. And note the statement from the Jan 2006 Ilitch press release which doesn't commit. | ||
Southen Member Username: Southen Post Number: 172 Registered: 08-2006 |
I was going more along the lines of what Gistok was asking and inferring. When demolition work was mentioned above I assumed it was implied that demolition would include the entire structure, which I dont think JC Beal does. They do do interior work which leads to preservation. The company has a large portfolio of preservation work, which leads me to believe that they wouldnt take on this project if it was going to lead to eventual demolition of the entire structure. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 652 Registered: 01-2005 |
If the max size job it handles is $1,000,000, it hasn't been engaged to bring down the structure, which will probably be a $6,000,000 +/- job. My guess is that it's doing asbestos removal in contemplation of a tear-down. On the other hand, it would not be a normal practice to use 2 unaffiliated companies to handle various aspects of the demolition of the building. I know for a fact that about 18 months ago several demo contractors were asked to inspect the building and prepare a rough estimate of the demo cost (of the entire building.) Even w/ all the funny money tax shelter schemes available for major redevelopment deals, I still can't see any proposed use as being economically viable. It's an anomalous situation. | ||
Malcovemagnesia Member Username: Malcovemagnesia Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2005 |
I hope some scheme works out to save the U.A. It would just be a ridiculous shame to knock the U.A. building down and put up yet another boring, could-be-dropped-anywhere generic office cube ala CompuWare downtown. I could envision redevelopment for the U.A. where some corporations own entire floors and there could be small businesses / offices sharing other floors. The only question mark would be how long would it take to rehab the theater. More theaters downtown make more options available for people to visit (and spend time and money) downtown. Detroit has nowhere to go but up, IMHO. | ||
Billk Member Username: Billk Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2005 |
I seem to recall that when JC Beal co. was formed, it was announced as a company that prepared abandoned buildings for rehab. I dont think they own any wrecking balls (but I could be wrong). Also, there was a survey crew on Bagley in front of the building yesterday. I dont know, but does demolition involve surveying? | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 318 Registered: 08-2004 |
Has there been any official reporting that the City and Olympia were trying to get Quicken to move to the UA/Statler sites? It's all blending together now. I talked to Louis Aguilar today and he said that they have been talking but no decision has been made. He was also told that Olympia requested bid a few months ago for the cleanup of the building in preperation for a possible future tenant. So It looks like that's what the work is being done by Beal | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1285 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Has there been any official reporting that the City and Olympia were trying to get Quicken to move to the UA/Statler sites?" Yes. Lots of it... | ||
Verifiable Member Username: Verifiable Post Number: 32 Registered: 05-2007 |
Not sure if you saw the post the last week of April in another thread ... but apparently the individual who posted the comment saw a group wearing Beal hard hats apparently surveying the situation at the Moose Lodge too. I've not seen the actual document but apparently the "agreement" filed with the Wayne County Registry of Deeds between Anban Inc. and Moose Building LLC (Ilitch) has convenants and restrictions that make it sound like the Moose Lodge can be neither demolished nor moved to make way for an Arena. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4389 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks Verifiable, that would really clarify the confusion from what the former owner of the Moose Lodge said (via his son on this forum) that "that building ain't going anywhere". Former building owner Blair McGowan (who'm I had the pleasure to meet and talk to at a Saving Hudson's social event at Intermezzo's 9 years ago), is a historic preservationist businessman. And this all now finally makes some sense... It would seem that Blair McGowan has sold the Moose to Mike Ilitch, with the stipulation that it not be torn down (or as has been mentioned... moved). God bless you Blair!! Now lets assume that if this is the case, then there is really no need to tear down Chin Tiki next door to the Moose. Perhaps Mike Ilitch visions the arena on the east side of Cass, and his son Atanas Ilitch visions an entertainment district along the west side of Cass. That way the GAR, Moose and Chin Tiki could all be part of that district along Cass! I may be overly optimistic, but with the GAR not going anywhere, and apparently the Moose not going anywhere, then there is a possibility for such an enclave of entertainment. And.... to add to that district, the Cass-Adams Building, that non-descript (Ilitch owned) 6 story building on the SE corner of Cass & Adams (across from the GAR) which is currently being used for MotorCity Casino employee training... could also be redeveloped for arena offices, or entertainment uses, once the MotorCity training offices move to the permanent casino. (Message edited by Gistok on May 24, 2007) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4392 Registered: 08-2004 |
Ya know... with all these Arena/UA/Moose/Ilitch threads, I think we could use an Ilitch Superthread... | ||
Verifiable Member Username: Verifiable Post Number: 33 Registered: 05-2007 |
I tried that with the post of the comprehensive map but that had limited interest. Perhaps 'cause I'm not an ol' timer here. Maybe if someone else started such a thing 'cause it sure sounds wise. | ||
Tony_pieroni Member Username: Tony_pieroni Post Number: 19 Registered: 02-2006 |
I'm responding to Gistok's question above about my view of a potential demolition of the United Artists Building (May 23d.) [I'm an occasional reader on this site but but not for a while. A friend told me about this on DetroitYes and I'm glad.] First, I'll be very concerned about damage to the Michigan Building if they tear down the United Artist's. I'll make sure that my building is protected. I'm assuming if it happens that Ilitch will cooperate. I have not had an contact of any kind from the Ilitch people about the United Artist's or any other topic. I have leaned more than I imagined about what's going on from reading DetroitYes today. Very informative. Thanks, G, for your interest and keep in touch. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4398 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks Mr. Pieroni. I'll stop by for another chat in the near future! As for the United Artists Building... although financially it may seem doubtful, maybe the Ilitch's (or Quicken??) may "make perfume out that pig yet"! I'm sure that one day you're looking forward to not being the ONLY functioning building owner along that stretch of Bagley. | ||
Gotdetroit Member Username: Gotdetroit Post Number: 81 Registered: 12-2005 |
Just noticed some workers up on the roof of the UA theater section. Looks like they are inspecting the roof. Some one was throwing what I can only guess was shovels of dirt on certain spots. But probably just powdered C4. |
