  Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5419 Registered: 10-2003 |
Well, it finally looks like something's about to give, and the news looks to be bigger than we'd expected... Quicken urges others to move, too LIVONIA -- As Quicken Loans/Rock Financial chairman and founder Dan Gilbert mulls a move to downtown Detroit, he's asking fellow business owners: "Who's coming with me?" Gilbert, recalling a scene from the movie "Jerry Maguire," told The Detroit News that if he relocates his mortgage business, he won't be moving alone. In the film, Tom Cruise's character storms out of an office while challenging others to leave the established firm. "If (a move) should to happen, it's not just going to be us. We expect there to be a commitment from a lot of companies at the same time," Gilbert said, adding Quicken should make a decision where to locate its headquarters within the next one to three months. "We're having discussions with the mayor and the governor," he said. "We expect a decision fairly shortly." http://www.detnews.com/apps/pb cs.dll/article?AID=/20070424/B IZ/704240344 | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4173 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the info Lmichigan... PAGING QUINN!!!  | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4174 Registered: 08-2004 |
Another company that I would love to see move downtown is Masco Corporation, currently HQ'ed in Taylor. From what I gather company head Richard Manoogian has some pricey artwork displayed in his Taylor HQ, which would look wonderful displayed in a new downtown HQ. That company would be a great catch, since they are a multi-billion company. | ||
Lt_tom Member Username: Lt_tom Post Number: 197 Registered: 06-2004 |
Another company that might want a presence downtown...the Bank of America | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 251 Registered: 11-2006 |
When we had these discussions around the beginning of the year, many of us thought that Quicken and a new hockey arena were the big ones for '07. We've connected the dots and I'm more sure of BOTH today then yesterday. I can feel it in my bones (and it isn't arthritis). | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 727 Registered: 09-2006 |
Lord help us if they shun us. | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 2056 Registered: 11-2004 |
Shhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun | ||
Tetsua Member Username: Tetsua Post Number: 1172 Registered: 01-2004 |
Damn it, why the 1 to 3 month wait? Why couldn't they just announce the move today? Still, I'll be glad to have them if they decide to relocate in the D. | ||
93typhoon Member Username: 93typhoon Post Number: 17 Registered: 04-2006 |
Nice to see they are talking to the Gov. - after Comerica - i don't she will let them move to Cleveland. | ||
Upinottawa Member Username: Upinottawa Post Number: 817 Registered: 09-2005 |
Does Quicken's desire to have other companies join it downtown suggest that they are leaning towards the former Hudson's site? | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8895 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Because it is a large business that is working on tax credits for the best deal for their business. Do people here really expect a decision for a company that size to be done in such a flippant manner? I'd love to see it as well but it isn't as easy as flipping a coin. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1163 Registered: 11-2004 |
A window of 1 to 3 months to make an announcement. So he's waiting for the Cavs to be eliminated from the playoffs before making the final decision? | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2006 |
I think BOTH the Quicken and "Foxtown Arena" to be announced after both the hoop and puck seasons end. This is especially true for Ilitch. I assume he'll announce something within 30 days of the end of the Wings season. This is my speculation. I consider it an educated guess. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 103 Registered: 12-2006 |
Hopefully Ilitch announces the new hockey stadium at the Victory Parade in June. Gilbert will announce about two weeks after the Pistons eliminate the Cavs. | ||
Rjlj Member Username: Rjlj Post Number: 318 Registered: 11-2003 |
And Mike Illitch is waiting for the Red Wings to win the cup to announce the new arena. | ||
Detroitduo Member Username: Detroitduo Post Number: 828 Registered: 06-2005 |
Yea... WOW. You guys are ALL high.... It's all just talk and politics. Gilbert knows what he is doing... he's making this press release to let the Gov and Mayor know that they may be going in the right direction and that they'd better not fuck this up or they both will lose their elections when he does NOT move downtown. An Illitch only will build an Arena when he gets the City to pay for it. Regardless, I don't have any faith that either will happen, until I see people moving into the buildings... Truth, cold and dry. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 104 Registered: 12-2006 |
Detroitduo, I highly doubt that Ilitch is waiting on the city or the state to pay a new hockey arena. With the state and city budget woes splashed all over the press these days, it would be political suicide to provide large amounts of public money towards a sports venue. Also, what has you so negative about the Quicken thing? It seems like it is very probable and it wouldn't be getting this type of press if things weren't close. | ||
Noggin Member Username: Noggin Post Number: 87 Registered: 09-2004 |
This could also be a good thing for Quicken. Look at all the free publicity Compuware gets after they moved downtown. When they were out in Farmington they were off the public radar. With Quicken loans it is even more important to keep their name out front. Who ever thinks about Rock Financial Showplace in Novi? Downtown is where they need to be. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9013 Registered: 12-2003 |
Jimbo, I don't see where Duo is going negative AT ALL! He says we're all high, and that can't be bad. Then he merely reveals the scheming that can tip a deal in Gilbert's favor...raising the stakes by releasing the press notice. You might be right, too, it could be probable...so it interests the press. Especially on a slow news day. Funny that, I prefer my truth hot and moist. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 105 Registered: 12-2006 |
I like my truth on the rocks with a twist of lime. | ||
Skulker Member Username: Skulker Post Number: 3810 Registered: 10-2003 |
Shuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnn the non-believer! | ||
Ptpelee Member Username: Ptpelee Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2005 |
It seems he's committed himself to moving downtown with all these statements....It'll look pretty bad if he pulls out now and moves to Cleveland. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3953 Registered: 10-2003 |
I prefer MY truth as a chaser with some Absolute | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 106 Registered: 12-2006 |
One thing to point out is that if he wants to consolidate some of his other holdings beyond just Quicken into the same building as well, then we are talking about a very LARGE development. How big do we think this building is going to be if it gets built? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 995 Registered: 06-2006 |
well one thing is for sure...business is good for them right now as they're coming off their highest closing volume month in the company's history... http://www.quickenloans.com/ab out/press_room/news_releases/q uickenloans-closes-2billion.ht ml | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 655 Registered: 04-2006 |
I wonder who he's trying to pull into the city with him? Sounds like he wants to make a big splash. On a somewhat related note, if/when the CBD ever needs to expand, which way would it be likely to go? Downtown and the riverfront are seeming to become very residential so if a skyscraper boom were to occur would this most likely happen around the New Center? | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1320 Registered: 03-2006 |
no there is plenty of open land downtown, and plenty of room should anyone move here. Other than Michigan based companies though, I dont see why any business would want to move here. Lately the vandalism down here has been awful | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 107 Registered: 12-2006 |
Two possibilities are his two other companies that were mentioned in the article. They were Fathead, a wall graphics company and ePrize, an interactive marketing company. Quicken alone is at 4,600 employees and growing. I'm not sure how big these other two companies are, but this would be a sizable boost to the downtown daytime (and hopefully nighttime) business. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3954 Registered: 10-2003 |
I would think it would probably expand westward along fort, Lafayette, and Michigan. Those seem like the most logical to me... | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1256 Registered: 01-2005 |
!! Computer problems up the whazoo here otherwise I would have pounced on this earlier. I told you guys earlier that they were not part of the sub-prime market anymore and that things were "sweet" for them (hiring ~250 PER MONTH!). This is indeed great news...Not that they have said they're moving, but for this reason (follow me): They spent quite alot of time and PR the past few years talking about this. Getting their employees riled up about it. Bringing focus groups downtown. My take has always been they would look absolutely foolish to now drop the idea. It would be a weak posture to take...and one that in general is bad for business. NOW with this article, the nail is further in the coffin (so to speak). They are definitely going to move downtown now and I couldn't be happier. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 997 Registered: 06-2006 |
oh there's plenty of vacant land and unsalvageable buildings to knock down...we're several decades away from having to worry about running out of land in the CBD, especially west of Woodward...... in the immediate future, though, besides the Statler and Hudson sites, the next plot to get built on will probably be the one between Cadillac square and Millender Center...but we're at least 5-10 years away from all three of those being built on | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2719 Registered: 02-2005 |
Examples? Why should a corporate HQ worry about this? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 998 Registered: 06-2006 |
quinn: do you work there? are people upset at all about having to pay city taxes and parking if the company moves? (Message edited by thejesus on April 24, 2007) | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 411 Registered: 11-2006 |
there will certainly be a massive parking structure provided... its too bad we cant put more underground, although I know it is something like 7x the cost per spot... | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1087 Registered: 09-2004 |
1. They may hire 250+ people a month. But what is the attrition? They probably lose 50% of their "Class" every 3 months. So of the 250 hires, one year later there are probably only 15 left. 2. IF Quicken comes downtown, ePrize will come with them. ePrize is also rapidly expanding (but without the same attrition). They built an addition onto their current offices, and expect to fill that additional capacity in a year. 3. I'm not saying that this will be a Quicken / ePrize campus, but there is that possibility. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1164 Registered: 11-2004 |
Parking wont be a problem. The Hudson's site has a large underground garage and there is the possibility of tapping into the Compuware garage with a sky bridge or something like that. The Statler site has plenty of room for underground parking, an adjacent parking garage, the Grand Circus Park garage or perhaps even tapping into the Trolley Plaza garage. I doubt parking costs will be an issue with this project. City income taxes are deductible from state taxes so that issue isn't as big as some make it out to be, plus Kwame has said he plans to make it a priority to reduce or eliminate the city income tax in the future. A combo move made by Quicken and E-Prize wouldn't surprise me. Gilbert (Quicken) and Linkner (E-Prize) are normally portrayed in the press as close. A large building for both companies would have its advantages. Also, my money is on the Hudson's site. Gilbert already has a cozy relationship with Karmanos, is renting office space from him and those two have been quoted a lot together in the same stories lately. That isn't by accident. | ||
Digitalvision Member Username: Digitalvision Post Number: 242 Registered: 11-2003 |
This is a money question - make no mistake about it, he's doing all of this to aim for the best incentives he can get. Smart businessman - but make no mistake, he's not committed to anything - he's talking business-speak to keep his options and play everyone off of each other. He's also talking to Livonia, to Cleveland - a simple web search shows they've been talking to everybody, getting everyone's hopes up depending on how you read the article, even being labeled a "gamesman" in one blog. The size of the tax incentives in any deal are going to be significant - MEDC gave them 6.1 million in incentives a few years ago after considering a move to Virginia. So it's a great possibility, and I hope it happens - but I've learned that in business you can't read too much into public statements. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4175 Registered: 08-2004 |
My prediction.... They are moving to the Statler site for their HQ. The United Artists Building will be converted into residential (remember he was talking in terms of business AND residential, as well as entertainment... all rolled up into one complex). On the Tuller footprint of the UA/Tuller block will be a massive parking structure, with condos on the GCP facade of that site. The massive parking structure will house Quicken employees by day, and arena parking at night for Mike Ilitch's new hockey barn built across Adams from that site (Between Cass & near Park Aves... but not ON Park). And near the corner of Bagley & Clifford (where the PM cuts across the corner of block), a Bagley People Mover Station will be installed going thru the corner of the Quicken HQ, similar to how the Millender Center PM station is configured. That PM station will also have a large catwalk that goes along Clifford towards Adams and connects into the new hockey barn. With a new Fine Arts Building going behind the saved facade, West GCP will finally start to flourish again, and tie into the Park Ave. developments. This will prompt new development for the David Whitney Building, and help along the slow development of the Broderick Tower. Again... just a prediction. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1002 Registered: 06-2006 |
Gistok... I'm in 100% agreement w/ everything you just wrote... | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 279 Registered: 01-2004 |
I hope you are right Gistok, however, I just hope the building matches with GCP and the garage is tastefully done and does not look like a garage. The building needs to have a "retro" look similar to One Woodward/Comerica tower.....in addition, what are they numbers we are looking at here? How many total employees Rock/ePrize/fathead ect...are we looking at and how big would this building have to be in height? | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4176 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thejesus, I am basing my prediction one a single element... Dan Gilbert and Atanas Ilitch are great friends... If it wasn't for that, I would say "Hudsons block". | ||
Dialh4hipster Member Username: Dialh4hipster Post Number: 2057 Registered: 11-2004 |
Comerica Tower's "retro" look is called post-modernism. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1003 Registered: 06-2006 |
I disagree about a new building having to be post modern... we need something fresh around here, with lots of glass...a new building that looks like a new building and stands out to people...something that tells people at first glance that a big company recently invested in the city...people from out of town and even from the suburbs see Comerica Tower and think it was built back in the '20s when all the other skyscrapers were built...the idea of post-moderism is supposed to be to blend in with surroundings and pay tribute to gothic architecture, not to fool everyone into thinking that no significant investment has occurred in the city since the early 20th century...but that's been the result (Message edited by thejesus on April 24, 2007) | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4177 Registered: 08-2004 |
Tkelly1986, in "my prediction"... the massive Tuller site parking structure would have condos all up and down the GCP facade. This would be in a way similar to the Fox Theatre Building... where the office building is in front of the massive theatre building. Only we're talking condos and parking instead. The only part of "my prediction" that I left out was the United Artists Theatre. Most developers would probably want to raze it (as well as the UA Building). But if Dan is such a good friend of Atanas... and he's mentioned that he wants "entertainment" as part of his new HQ, then maybe a restored "Quicken Center for the Performing Arts" with bookings by Olympia Entertainments is a possibility?? But I'm already sounding "pie in the sky" in most of my other predictions on this thread, so I won't go there... | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 280 Registered: 01-2004 |
I still like the "post-modernism" idea...this building needs to blend in with its surrondings...GCP is a gem and something flashy would be tacky | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2391 Registered: 10-2003 |
I think it would be extremely beneficial for Detroit to have a company like Quicken move downtown. One of Detroit's biggest problems has been the dilution of jobs and people over an ever-expanding geographic area. This reduces economies of scale, and makes business--especially small businesses that feed off the larger firms--less competitive. Over time, one could hope that companies doing business with the Quickens and Compuwares of the world would want to be in close proximity. Bicycle messengers, folks. Detroit has started to build its downtown employment base, and has a decent point from which to start. Keep growing the employment downtown, and make the CBD and adjacent neighborhoods attractive for residents to grow the density along planned corridors. Eventually, the dots between the CBD, Corktown, Midtown, and River Place should be connected by unbroken swaths of dense development along the corridors. Of course, this would mean sacrificing quite a bit of surface parking lot for leaseable space.... | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 502 Registered: 07-2006 |
I agree with most everything Gistok says, but i'm a little more confident Gilbert will restore the UA - given that he already seeems to have an interest in the old theatres, holding several events in the Fox and just recently the Opera House, it seems the opportunity to have one in his own building would be a natural choice. Even if it wasn't done immediately - say, start off with the rest of the development, but then restore the theater gradually over several years. So far as design, I don't really care what the particular style is. As thejesus said, a modern building would create more of an impression of recent investment - I am one of those who had no clue before a couple years ago that Comerica Tower was built in the 90s. Plus, a modern style building brings architectural variety to the area, and avoids the chance of it looking like a cheap knockoff of an old building. That said, I wouldn't be completely against an older style, as long as it's done right. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1090 Registered: 09-2004 |
"I think it would be extremely beneficial for Detroit to have a company like Quicken move downtown." -No Shit. "Bicycle messengers, folks." -Not sure what that means, but we already have them. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2720 Registered: 02-2005 |
I like this talk of Gilbert wanting others to join him. You could interpret this two ways: he wants other major businesses to open up downtown just because he wants people to follow his lead, or he wants other businesses in house with him, which means that we could be getting a really tall building. If we are getting a really tall building, I would kind of like to see a Monroe Block skyscraper. I will take anything, though, and the Statler site looks probable. This will do amazing things for street level retail on Merchant's Row and Washington Blvd. With that many employees, we could really have critical mass for daytime population downtown, with lots of new pedestrian traffic spurring business. Can you imagine Merchant's Row when it is completely filled in, linking a major jobs-maker in GCP to multiple employers at CMP? | ||
Bob Member Username: Bob Post Number: 1453 Registered: 11-2003 |
Maybe the Quicken Headquarters would have the long talked about little action on House of Blues that is rumored to be possibly coming to downtown sometime in the next half a century. This would be an entertainment option on the scale that Gilbert may like. Compuware was quite successful in creating more than just an office building, just look at how many people are wondering around at Borders waiting to be able to get a seat at Hard Rock. I would think Gilbert may want the same thing with his building. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2392 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: As opposed to having your courier sit in the morass of Oakland County traffic. The glass tower idea is passe and dated. Hell--Houston has plenty of generic glass boxes. Does anyone think Houston is the pinnacle of "new investment"? For a city so concerned with the image it projects (rather than the substance behind the image), I don't think you want Detroit announcing to the world that it just entered the 1970s. Just my humble opinion. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1091 Registered: 09-2004 |
Because this glass tower looks like it came out of the 70's, right? http://www.hearstcorp.com/towe r/ | ||
Dabirch Member Username: Dabirch Post Number: 2261 Registered: 06-2004 |
quote: I think it means that Dan thinks we need a centralized circle downtown where all residents, workers, and visitors can go to get there pot. Maybe even open up a detroit chapter of Madam's Organ so they have somewhere to hang out after work? | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2393 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Have you seen the base of the Hearst Tower, i.e. the original six-story historical building? This structure is more than just a glass box. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 607 Registered: 01-2005 |
Truth: colder and drier. I say that's a transparent announcement that he's NOT moving downtown. It takes years and mountains of money (tax credits etc)to get companies to move downtown. Gilbert knows that. It's like pulling hen's teeth. So, Gilbert's conditioning his move on what he believes is an impossible condition precedent. Next year he will say he really would have loved to have moved downtown, but couldn't do it w/o other big companies moving "with" him, he tried very hard to make that happen, but he couldn't pull it off. Still a hero. "Thanks for trying blah blah blah." No one moves a company downtown because he's friends with somebody else. Nobody is going to convert the U-A to residential because his buddy owns it. Might as well toss a ton of dollar bills into a trash can and set them on fire. Gistok: your is as good a prediction as I've seen as to what would happen if the guy was serious. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1257 Registered: 01-2005 |
No I don't work there...I have several friends there. None of them are afraid or hesitant...all seem to want to move. Anything is better than livonia. I agree with Gistok, although personally I'd rather the hudson's site be developed. Now I can't find that damn photoshop of the woolworth building on that site again. Computer problem week for me. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1092 Registered: 09-2004 |
Danindc - Exactly, which is why my recommendation is a phased plan... 1. Build an 8 story Brick building 2. Wait 80 years 3. Demo the interior of said Brick building 4. Build 100 story building 5. Wait for Apocalypse | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2394 Registered: 10-2003 |
^LOL! | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 109 Registered: 12-2006 |
Why is it not surprising to me that someone with a SN of 3rdworldcity would believe that there is no chance of this project coming to fruition? | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1006 Registered: 06-2006 |
"all seem to want to move. Anything is better than livonia." lol, ok...you just lost all credibility with me with that comment... | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4180 Registered: 08-2004 |
3WC, I bet that our mutual acquaintance... Michigan Building owner Anthony Pieroni would be "tickled pink" to actually have some neighbors, rather than a huge eyesore, north of the Michigan Building! Especially in lieu of the fact that he owns part of the Statler block (AAA Building) and he has confirmed his interest (on this forum) in "being part of" any such development. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4181 Registered: 08-2004 |
El_jimbo... I wouldn't be too hard on 3rdworldcity. He just believes in "Barkers Law", which states: "Murphy was an optimist." | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 110 Registered: 12-2006 |
I know, Gistok. It wasn't so much directed at him as much as it was at the overall negativism regarding Detroit. Yes it has problems and yes it can be frustrating, but it will NEVER improve if we keep having a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude about things. Think about it. The majority of the people on this site love Detroit and are passionate about it and if WE take that negative, defeatist stance then how can we expect to convince others who don't feel as strongly as we do to get involved or invest in the future of Detroit. I'm sorry I came down hard on 3rdworldcity and I can understand where he's coming from based on past disappointments but I guess I'm just a person who thinks that being negative about something doesn't make the situation any better. | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 503 Registered: 07-2006 |
another thought to add to Gistok's prediction, and one that is truly 'pie in the sky'. Relocate the parking structure in the plan to the back half of the Statler block (away from GCP) and build a catwalk over the people mover to the UA, and another from the UA to the Michigan building. Now the Michigan building has access to the parking too... and the Michigan theatre can be restored! Actually, even without the Michigan building part, I like this arrangement better. It keeps the massive parking structure away from GCP, and if necessary, a smaller parking structure within the new Tuller building could be used for residents of the condos. It would also allow the project to be built in phases - one phase for the quicken HQ on the statler block, another phase for the UA-Tuller condos/apartments - rather than one huge megaproject that will face more hurdles for funding. On the other hand, it also makes it more likely that the tuller phase would never happen. One other thing about Gistoks plan - I do NOT want to see a catwalk to the new hockey arena. Don't make it too easy for fans to get to their cars, or they'll avoid the rest of the establishments downtown. They're much more likely to stop by a bar if they're walking past them on the sidewalk than if they are walking through a tube. | ||
Eric Member Username: Eric Post Number: 787 Registered: 11-2004 |
quote: You're reading way too much into his choice of venues. Holding events at the Fox and Opera House doesn't he interest in old theatres. The fact they can hold large numbers of people is far more likely the reason why they were used. | ||
Jelk Member Username: Jelk Post Number: 4349 Registered: 10-2003 |
It's worth noting that the only person who followed Tom Cruise out the door when he challenged folks to come with him in Jerry Maguire was a secretary. This is a non-announcement announcement. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1259 Registered: 01-2005 |
("all seem to want to move. Anything is better than livonia." lol, ok...you just lost all credibility with me with that comment...) Or any other suburb for that matter. Not just Livonia, but how cool is it to work in a major downtown area with tons of places for drinks and lunches? It's exciting. Livonia (and any other suburb) is the same old mile walk to your car in 10 acre asphalt lot, drive in congested traffic to/from work/lunch/home, eat at chili's/mcdonalds/burgerking/r ubytuesdays/etc., look out your window at parking lot or undeveloped lot with medium forestation. No comparison...life downtown is worth the income tax and commute. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4183 Registered: 08-2004 |
Now that "Skipper's Rule" appears to have been heaped into the dustbin of history on this forum... maybe we can coin a new term... "Maguire's Rule".... which states "I'll develop... but I'm not developing alone!" | ||
Scottr Member Username: Scottr Post Number: 504 Registered: 07-2006 |
quote: perhaps I am, but there are other places besides these he could have just as easily used. They are in no way the only facilities in metro Detroit capable of holding that many people. | ||
Emu_steve Member Username: Emu_steve Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2006 |
Numbers, numbers, numbers... what are the numbers of Compuware employees vs. the number of Quicken employees? Is now Quicken > Compuware? If so, surely they must require a big bldg. | ||
Motorcitydave Member Username: Motorcitydave Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 |
I said it a year ago, I think that the David Whitney would be a great spot for them to locate, add the indoor shopping in the atrium, under ground parking at Grand Circus Park....and maybe he is trying to secure other tenants to help fill the building as well.... the building has had a security guard out there day and night for the past 6 months, plus now they have built a wooden wall around the Woodward side of the building....hmmmm. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1573 Registered: 11-2003 |
hell if you ask me working downtown anywhere is better than an office park somewhere. Since I have been working downtown Flint I have really enjoyed being able to walk to the variuos shops and restaraunts around the downtown area. Not to mention being able to see all the development happening. Soooo much better than a Livonia. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 111 Registered: 12-2006 |
Motorcitydave, I think it would be better for Quicken and for Detroit if they invested in a new building as opposed to moving into an old one. Besides, I like the idea of using the Whitney for lofts rather than office space. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1007 Registered: 06-2006 |
I wasn't questioning whether downtown was better than Livonia...I was questioning Quinn acting like Livonia is the worst location on Earth and Quicken's employees are all in a hurry to get out of there... I grew up in Livonia and work there now, and of the people I know who work at Quicken, many either grew up in the 'burbs or are raising families in the burbs...they aren't looking for an urban lifestyle, which is why I asked Quinn whether there was much resistance...but it turns out he's wasn't echoing the sentiments of Quicken employees...he's just subscribing to the anti-suburb mentality that many in Detroit have... that area also has tons of new shopping, a new movie theater, a few hotels and at least 7 restaurants that have been built in the last 5 years...Northwest Livonia is booming contrary to what people on this forum who never make it out that way might say Downtown Detroit would be a better location for Quicken in my opinion...I just took issue with the statement, "anything is better than Livonia"... (Message edited by thejesus on April 24, 2007) | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1260 Registered: 01-2005 |
What an angry post, thejesus. IN MY OPINION anything would be better than Livonia. I'm sorry, but the people I talk to have the same feeling. Livonia - ugh. Downtown - exciting and new. Ms. Sensitiva De Jesus... I apologize for offending you regarding Livonia. But, I would also subscribe to "anything is better than the same old-same old," and for Quicken/Rock, that just happens to be Livonia. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11515 Registered: 10-2003 |
Gumby, Is downtown Flint safe? I heard it's a pretty dangerous city. I saw Michael Moore's film, Roger and Me, so I feel like I know Flint fairly well now. | ||
Danindc Member Username: Danindc Post Number: 2398 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Okay, I have to jump on this. On what basis would a new building be better for Detroit, versus an old one? How did you come to this conclusion? I'm just trying to understand your line of thinking and reasoning. | ||
El_jimbo Member Username: El_jimbo Post Number: 112 Registered: 12-2006 |
SS, I know that's sarcasm, but I've heard people say the same thing about Detroit because they saw the high speed chase scene in Beverly Hills Cop. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3955 Registered: 10-2003 |
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Sport's post reminds me of his very first one before he moved to the D awwwwwwwwwww.... <<<laffin | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 198 Registered: 02-2006 |
I can't decide whether to hang or shoot myself tonight in my Livonia home. The city is just that awful. Please. Some of you guys are hilariously closed-minded. You can't possibly imagine anybody liking anything other than what you think is ideal. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8909 Registered: 10-2003 |
No more hilarious than you running to a pro-Detroit board to protect Livonia whenever you feel it is even remotely slighted. I do not like Livonia but I do like other suburbs. It isn't blind hate for Livonia in the name of loving Detroit. I like the Grosse Pointes, Dearborn, Farmington, etc but Livonia does nothing for me. Now please tell me how I am stupid and live in a shithole. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1008 Registered: 06-2006 |
"Some of you guys are hilariously closed-minded. You can't possibly imagine anybody liking anything other than what you think is ideal." I know, right. As quick as these people are to call someone ignorant or out-of-touch when someone states a negative view of Detroit, they sure are quick to bash other cities... Instead of just saying downtown would be a nice change from Livonia for Quicken, we get, "anything is better than Livonia"....which, of course, in anti-suburban Detroiter speak translates to, "we're jealous that Livonia has their shit together". | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8910 Registered: 10-2003 |
Yep, Livonia is a model city in metro Detroit. I see the real estate prices soaring in Livonia. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 916 Registered: 12-2006 |
I have to second those who say that the new arena will be announced after the season ends for the Wings. As for Quicken, Gistok's prediction is a good one. Although I see it more likely that Quicken will move to the Hudson site. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 659 Registered: 04-2006 |
"Yep, Livonia is a model city in metro Detroit. I see the real estate prices soaring in Livonia." Zing! And that's really all that needs to be said. Livonia and Detroit are part of the same system and Livonia won't "have its shit together" so much as Detroit doesn't. Unless someone can figure out a way to reinvent the metropolitan area without Detroit, which Oakland County has tried and failed at for the past 30 years. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1261 Registered: 01-2005 |
How is this... Nothings worse than Luton, UK. Even Livonia is better. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C rap_Towns Feel better everyone? Lets calm down. Besides someone getting their panties in a twist because I slammed a suburb on a Detroit forum, this is a great thread about great opportunities and possibilities for SE Michigan. Believe it or not, a move for Quicken downtown helps Livonia in the long run: As the City of Detroit fares, so does SE Michigan. As an aside, I've done my time in the country and the suburbs. I'm 34 now...12 years in D, 4 years in a D-Suburb (Southfield), and 18 years in the sticks (AnnArbor/Williamston/Howell). I've been around the block. Detroit beats the other areas hands down. Wow...when I sum up my life like that it's depressing. I would have thought there would be a New York or Chicago in there by now. Damn. :/ Anyone got a kleenex? JK. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8912 Registered: 10-2003 |
I predict that this thread gets way too long with not a single fact presented. Hasn't this same thread been done to death time and time again. Here is a summary: Quicken to Detroit It would be perfect at X It is better than Livonia Livonia rules and you guys are jealous No, Livonia sucks No, Detroit sucks This is gonna be awesome I bet they are working with (insert national chains) to be at their building I hope it's at least 3000 stories tall LIVONIA RULES!! Shut up it sucks. Livonia is racist I bet they announce it next week repeat repeat repeat | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 882 Registered: 02-2006 |
| ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 918 Registered: 12-2006 |
Great summary. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1262 Registered: 01-2005 |
I've stated several times I was sick of this. I love it (the idea of Quicken moving downtown), but I'm sick of being dragged along in this cyclical, and at times maniacle, thought stream. I would add to your summary: "Mildred Gaddis is a Man/Drag Queen" | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 488 Registered: 07-2005 |
Excellent summary JT1 LIVONIA RULES!! | ||
Wazootyman Member Username: Wazootyman Post Number: 199 Registered: 02-2006 |
But this argument only continues because some seem to believe you can only be pro-Detroit if you are anti-Suburb. It's a tired argument, but it really doesn't make any sense to rip on the 'burbs. I simply said that Livonia does not suck. I do not say it rules, I do not say Detroit sucks. It's a good indicator of self-esteem issues if you resort to knocking down someone/something you view as competition to further yourself. Help Detroit, or help Livonia. I am certainly inclined to promote Detroit, but don't hurt one to help the other. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8914 Registered: 10-2003 |
Wazooty - Do you call out all of your neighbors or people that post on the News and Freep sites everytime they rip on Detroit? As for not hurting one to help the other - that is the story of the region. We have counties and cities still trying to lure business away from each other. It is wrong and backwards thinking but it is reality. Do you think that Livonia (as an entity) has tried to do a thing to help Detroit or the region unless they get something out of it? My money says that Livonia is built largely on Detroit's losses. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4184 Registered: 08-2004 |
Sorry Quinn.... but with your computer problems, and with no half man/half woman pics of Mildred, and no pic of the Woolworth Bldg on the Statler site... well you know... a picture says a thousand words... | ||
Jimaz Member Username: Jimaz Post Number: 1994 Registered: 12-2005 |
 | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11521 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Oh boy, I don't think I even wanna ask. | ||
Gumby Member Username: Gumby Post Number: 1575 Registered: 11-2003 |
lol, ss. you would be surprised how many times I still hear stuff like that. You know we live off rabbits up here. | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11522 Registered: 10-2003 |
Dude, seriously, I KNOW! I saw the movie. | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1895 Registered: 12-2003 |
Couple of things: I would predict that if they move their headquarters, they will not move all of their office employees. They are spread around multiple locations now, so I see no reason that they will completely consolidate, especially considering that at least of few of their employees would prefer not to move or drive further. There is a fair amount of new vacant office space that could accommodate some of the Rock/Quicken employees or more likely other smaller groups that are joining them. I believe some of Comerica is opening up, One Kennedy has some vacant floors, and Compuware has extra space in at least the short term. That is assuming that none of these organizations would want to occupy space in the Rowland classics (Buhl, Guardian, Penobscot) or similar older buildings. That said, I think if a move is executed, there will be a new construction headquarters building. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1009 Registered: 06-2006 |
http://www.cleveland.com/busin ess/plaindealer/index.ssf?/bas e/business-2/1177500866206060. xml&coll=2 | ||
Supersport Member Username: Supersport Post Number: 11525 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You mean other than the huge money savings by consolidating? I want to ask you a simple question, and I'd like an honest answer from you. Say you have 4 people living in four different houses, paying 4 separate mortgages, 4 separate heating bills, 4 separate property taxes, 4 separate phone bills, 4 separate security agencies, and 4 separate water bills. Would you see any savings whatsoever if these 4 people moved into one house and all lived together? I'm honestly starting to realize why the law enforcement entry exam I recently aced seemed so easy, and how the questions seemed like common sense to me, and why so many that take it likely don't pass. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 3957 Registered: 10-2003 |
lol Sport shall we go thru the archives? lol | ||
Jsmyers Member Username: Jsmyers Post Number: 1896 Registered: 12-2003 |
I don't disagree that they have some good reasons to completely consolidate. You mentioned a number of them. There are reasons not to as well: -By having two locations 15-20 miles apart, you increase your population of potential employees. For example, let's say that a company has an office in Novi (I know you know Novi) and one downtown. Novi has a much greater potential to draw employees from Lansing, but downtown has a greater ability to draw employees from Monroe or Toledo. -Rock is an established company with good employees they want to retain. Some of the employees' morale will suffer if they are forced to drive an extra half hour. They might even quit, and then you have to retrain new employees, which is expensive. If I were Rock, I'd probably keep one Livonia/Farmington office open as an option for some of my employees. -Rock is in a relatively volatile business and has volatile staffing levels. Building something that you own is expensive, especially if it largely ends up vacant. Keeping some of the employees in space procured by short-term leases is one way to hedge your bets. By your logic SS, GM should have its headquarters in Warren, and there would be no need for a facility in Pontiac or Milford either. | ||
Sharmaal Member Username: Sharmaal Post Number: 1094 Registered: 09-2004 |
GM is closing their Pontiac facility I believe. They've already moved many people to Warren. The Milford Facility is a proving grounds, they didn't have that much room available at the Warren site. And, relative to the size of the company, they don't have many employees there. | ||
Wordonthestreet Member Username: Wordonthestreet Post Number: 146 Registered: 11-2003 |
With the current job situation in Michigan. I doubt many people in this area will quit a job just because of the commute. Given that Quicken has a lot of young employees, many of them will considering moving downtown. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 8919 Registered: 10-2003 |
thejesus - I appreciate the link but the source is the Detroit News. While I doubt they leave SE Michigan I also doubt that the News has anymore insight than this thread. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2725 Registered: 02-2005 |
Still should keep tabs on Cleveland because they are following this too. Take that, Ohio. If Quicken moved to Ohio that would be the last straw. Michigan would look like shit if we lost a home-grown company. | ||
Detroitplanner Member Username: Detroitplanner Post Number: 1219 Registered: 04-2006 |
I'd be willing to open a dollar store in the lobby of the new Quicken HQ. | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1263 Registered: 01-2005 |
Detroitplanner...I get the Wig and Makeup Shop. I'm going to call it "Quicken, to a Wig," or "Rock-n-wig." | ||
Ndavies Member Username: Ndavies Post Number: 2563 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: You mean like Comerica, Dow Chemical, Kmart or Chrysler. Some of a whole long list of companies who have left, are about to leave or have been bought out by out of staters. (Message edited by ndavies on April 25, 2007) | ||
Leland_palmer Member Username: Leland_palmer Post Number: 299 Registered: 08-2004 |
How about "Quwiggen"? | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2726 Registered: 02-2005 |
This one would really hurt, though, especially after this drawn out speculation, and especially if they went to OHIO. Really, that would just be mean. Quicken/Rock is usually called one of the best places to work, making it exceptionally valuable to have here. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 985 Registered: 02-2007 |
There will be some hurt feeling one way or another considering that Cleveland and Detroit are like Brothers. | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 416 Registered: 11-2006 |
Umm, no. Cleveland has never really had a shot at it. Gilbert did open up a large office there though (600 employees). | ||
Quinn Member Username: Quinn Post Number: 1264 Registered: 01-2005 |
Oh that's it. Thanks Leland... Or just "Qwiggen."  | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2727 Registered: 02-2005 |
Urbanize, if Cleveland is our brother than he's the little annoying shit we should beat every time. [Ohio hater here] | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 986 Registered: 02-2007 |
Yes, but recently it hasn't been happening Mackinaw. | ||
Davecil Member Username: Davecil Post Number: 1 Registered: 03-2007 |
They are actually looking at a renovation of the train station. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1016 Registered: 02-2007 |
"They are actually looking at a renovation of the train station." But that would mean no new skyscraper. I hope you're joking. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5425 Registered: 10-2003 |
Quicken moving ANYWHERE within the city is a win-win. I couldn't care less if they decide to go new, or go refurbished. Davecil, where did you hear this? | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 927 Registered: 12-2006 |
Urbanize, how would that be bad? | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1018 Registered: 02-2007 |
It's not that it's bad, but I was looking more so forward to a new fresh glass building in downtown instead or somewhere untamed on the outskirts. However, I guess it's economy before appearance. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 928 Registered: 12-2006 |
That would knock out the biggest eyesore in the country. I wouldn't complain if they moved there. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1014 Registered: 06-2006 |
lol, Davecil is messing with you guys... Quicken is NOT, repeat, NOT looking into renovating the train station... | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1021 Registered: 02-2007 |
I figured that. If it was the case, they would be a new thread about the proposal daily on DY. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 929 Registered: 12-2006 |
I doubt Matty would be willing to give it up... Figured, but wanted to see why Urbanize was saying that stuff. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1023 Registered: 02-2007 |
I was just making sure it was inaccurate. However, I still would rather have a glass skyscraper in the CBD or at least MidTown. The MCS still has hope (If the plans for the Police HQ ever get into effect and work out all the finance issues). | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 931 Registered: 12-2006 |
I thought those died a while ago. | ||
Urbanize Member Username: Urbanize Post Number: 1026 Registered: 02-2007 |
No, I think the Blueprint is still there. The plan is on an "unscheduled" hold due to money issues. | ||
Scs100 Member Username: Scs100 Post Number: 934 Registered: 12-2006 |
Ok. Thanks for the update. |
