  Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2006 |
Why stay in Detroit? Convince why I should stay? I am getting tired of Detroit, which is mainly due to crime and shitty neighborhoods. I’ve been here since 1990. I originally moved to SW Detroit but have lived in Midtown for the past 12 years. My main goal was to get through graduate school. I have overstayed my intentions. As someone who makes good money and is educated, they say we are the target group that the mayor wants. I think for many who bought here (speaking for my friends) and the novelty is wearing off even for them. I guess I am just sick-and-tired of the THUG element in this city. I stayed when Midtown was Cass Corridor and everyone said “wait.” I just see so many students NOT living in my neighborhood anymore; it’s not mixed – its ghetto! As Wayne State builds its’ own housing, the students don’t come from the neighborhood. Instead, we get the criminal, dope-dealing, thug element that is moving out of the lower corridor and coming this way straight up Cass and 2nd. I’ve looked all over the city and find no place that I can walk safely 6 – 10 blocks; tat has ice stores, nice restaurants, and like-minded neighbors. Yes, there are plenty of 3-4 block safe zones (like Corktown), but it’s such a shame that we are so confined to our front porches for the other 95% of the city. Everyone is talking lofts, lofts, lofts (or condos). These people come in my neighborhood, check out the scene at 2 in the afternoon and see everything great. I’ll be damn if I would walk down Willis at 9pm or walk to Honest John’s. It boggles my mind who would buy these places. It’s not violent crime but there is allot of street crime. “Some” of these people who bought within the last two years are regretting it (acquaintances). They realize they have a $200,000 dollar condo which is absolutely beautiful but they also know that they are not safe walking on the sidewalk in front of their own condo. I see it all collapsing unless the city gets tough on crime. I get so tired of the mayor and other people bashing Detroit Public Schools, as if that is why people don’t come here. All inner-city schools have problems. Charter schools don’t solve the schooling problem or the neighborhood crime problem. Maybe when Kwame cleans up the neighborhoods and gets tough on thug crime, maybe, just maybe the schools will have a fighting chance. Stop blaming schools on why people don’t want to live here. For me schools is a non-issue; I want to walk more than 3 blocks from my home and feel safe I really feel guilty but I find myself hanging out in Ferndale, Royal Oak, or Birmingham, 3 – 4 days a week. Yes, I like some of the places downtown, I’m just tired of the street people, the pan handlers, the bums, the thuggish crowd; it gets old after awhile. I know that living in the city you expect some crime, that there is some dirtiness to living in a city, but I am just tired of the street thugs that have no respect for anyone. I am not 100% convinced that I want to leave. I still love the DIA, the Detroit Historical Museum, the Charles H. Wright African American Museum, the proximity to Greektown, and Detroit sports. I’m just wondering when living in Detroit will get that neighborhood feel again when all people can feel comfortable where they live? I’m not alone. My friend who just dropped $300K on a place in Brush Park is already regretting it and has few opportunities to get his money out of it. Any suggestions why I or my friend should stay? Thanks for all you help. It’s heart-wrenching to leave. I don’t ask these questions likely. | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 1154 Registered: 03-2006 |
I think you answered your own question, I wouldn't look for dramatic changes in the crime rate or economic activity in Detroit for quite some time. If anything, the trends are headed in the wrong direction. The police force needs an infusion of money for more officers and a total change of approach and attitude. There is not much action on this front and it would take years to implement if there were. If you are renting or can get out of your house or condo without losing your ass, I would do it. I don't see the lofts and condos holding their value, particularly as some of the tax abatements expire. As I am one of the hated suburbanites on here, I would expect others to have a different point of view. I totally regret buying a house out here 3 years ago as it is depreciating in value. It will be years before I have any equity in it, if ever. I see no positive sign on the horizon that the Big 3 will dramatically ramp up employment in the area or that Michigan is attracting new business to come to the state. The politicians have dropped all pretense that this is even possible in the short term and have descended into the predictable squabbling and finger pointing. Their are no "big ideas" on the table to fundamentally change things. Meanwhile the national economy that has been doing much better will eventually cool off and we will see matters get much worse here. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on June 11, 2007) | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4235 Registered: 10-2003 |
Imperfectgentleman....with the unbiased opinion of Detroit... | ||
Eric_w Member Username: Eric_w Post Number: 232 Registered: 02-2007 |
I feel as you do- I grew up in Detroit ( born March 1956 ) and lived there virtually my whole life until 1996. It's never coming back to what is was and there's a long history of lawless behaviour tolerated in all areas. Your term "Thug Element" is exactly on point. It's polluted the city for over 40 years. If I was single and into the urban scene of Greektown and the few other places downtown I might want to live in Detroit but I'm a family man and Detroit's no place to raise a child. I'm 110% sure on that. Bad schools,gangs,guns and few safe social outlets for them. You have to do what is right for you. I wish I'd had enough sense to get out 20 years before I did. | ||
Kronprinz Member Username: Kronprinz Post Number: 466 Registered: 12-2006 |
it's all about the eye's to the ground and walking fast ... if you can do that you can live a happy life in the "D" ... whatever you do, don't look up, or you will find yourself sending your resume to Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Georgetown, KY | ||
Perfectgentleman Member Username: Perfectgentleman Post Number: 1155 Registered: 03-2006 |
quote: Detroit_stylin, perhaps you can share your thoughts on how things are going to improve in the metro area in the foreseeable future? It gives me no joy to provide a bleak assessment, after all, we will all lose if things continue to get worse. If I honestly saw anything on the horizon in the near term that would paint a brighter picture, I would say it. I do feel that the domestic auto industry will stabilize at some point, albeit on a much smaller scale than in the past. I have actually heard some good things from Kilpatrick, the question always becomes implementation to match the rhetoric. Believe me, I would like nothing more than for Detroit to recover and regain its former prominence, for all of our sakes. (Message edited by perfectgentleman on June 11, 2007) | ||
Mayor_sekou Member Username: Mayor_sekou Post Number: 1012 Registered: 09-2006 |
I swear I am having the same dilemma. I might defect temporarily to Chicago until I start a family, then I vow to move back here (city). | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 177 Registered: 05-2004 |
I grew up an lived in Detroit from 1951 until 1978. It was a great time to be there until the late 60's. After that, the migration really began. Thug element has been around a long time. We stuck it out in the Grand River- Greenfield area until 1978 when robberies got to be too much plus all our old neighbors had gone by then. They were replaced by folks who really didn't seem to know how to take care of themselves or their property. Downtown has been the focus since then for revitalizing the city and the neighborhoods have been left to fend for themselves. Hey, if you got your degree you should be able to figure out what to do. Your heart may want to stay but your head can see your peace of mind (and health) is at stake. I never enjoyed always having to look over my shoulder or liked worrying if my stuff would be there when I got home. I concluded that was no way to live. Good luck and I hope you get out in one piece. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 41 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thanks for the comments. One thing that is especially hard to leave is my “historical” love for this city. I really loved the WSU area, even when it was seedy 12 years ago, because it was a mix of ethnicities, a mix of personalities, gay, straight, pop, grunge, hip-hop, and yes, even some straight-laced conservative types. It was a great mix. Last weekend was one of my favorite weekends in the city: Detroit Festival of the Arts. I went each day for a few hours and probably spent a grand on food, drink, t-shirts, ceramics, and a couple small paintings. I loved it and it was in MY neighborhood! How cool! Obviously the first (and easiest for some) response is, “Oh, so you want to get away from black people, huh?” Absolutely not. Matter-of-fact, it is my best and dearest friend who wants me to move into his building in Birmingham. Having spent 24 years of his life in Detroit, he left years ago. I have many other black, white, mixed, etc. friends that decided Midtown was not for them. I am pretty much one of the last holdouts. Like I said at great length: We simply have such a large THUG-GHETTO element in this city that has no respect and no concern for anyone. This is not a black/white issue, this is simply about people who want to live in safe mixed neighborhoods in harmony. Not addressing the criminal element no matter how many more lofts or condos they build in my neighborhood will not KEEP people here. Like others have said, as the 15 year tax break winds down, high taxes and high crime will push those people right back to where they came from – the suburbs. Let’s be honest, the condos being built in my neighborhood aren’t for the poor, they are for mostly white suburbanites who have MONEY. As nice as these new buildings are, remember, some of the old abandoned buildings were nice at one time also. They too became ghetto havens and drug dens and THEN became abandoned. I wish SOMEONE could give me some reasons to stay. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9385 Registered: 10-2003 |
Some of the people will tell you why it sucks (as seen above) and some will tell you why it's great. As I see it their input should be completely irrelevant. I personally love the city and love living here but my opinion should carry no more weight than anyone who tells you the city sucks. It's your life and your decision. The city can only get better if people such as yourself stay but the decision should be what is best for you. | ||
Detroit_stylin Member Username: Detroit_stylin Post Number: 4236 Registered: 10-2003 |
My thing is you do what you have to do. My decade long absence from here while on active duty has only shown and reinforced my commitment to this city. I have been to Atlanta, NY, Chi, and other placed domestic and foreign but the one thing that I have come to realize is that I....me personally, want to be a part of something from the beginning. Not go somewhere else and just fall right into something that was already in the swing of things. That is what caused me to come back in the midst of everyone looking at me sidewayz because they had already given Detroit up for dead. I feel a connection here that I cannot (have not) felt any where else. Therefore this has been the only place that I ever felt (and have ever called no matter where I lived at) home. But it's up to you and what you feel yanno? | ||
Mbr Member Username: Mbr Post Number: 191 Registered: 03-2005 |
It seems like you are thinking about security a lot. I have had friends that lived in Woodbridge and said they were too often worried about crime and moved to one of the larger developments with more security and the problem was solved. Although they still had some concerns on the street at least they knew their car and belongings were safe. | ||
Andysrc Member Username: Andysrc Post Number: 174 Registered: 07-2005 |
Jhartmich - do what's going to make you happy. Ferndale is a great place. Why feel guilty going there? Royal Oak and Birmingham are great too. You don't owe anything to Detroit. It's your life. Why be unhappy with where you live if you don't have to be? Live in Detroit because you love it, not because of some misguided sense of loyalty. If you have to beg people to give you reasons to stay, then really, what's the point? Do what is right for you, bud. That's all you can do. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 731 Registered: 07-2005 |
quote: That is no shit. We moved my Grandma out of that neighborhood after some butthole shot at my Dad and me while we were working in the garage at her house in 1974. She lived in that house for 40 years. Loads of my other relatives stayed in that vicinity until about 1978, the robberies and muggings just got to be too much for them to accept. | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 253 Registered: 09-2006 |
Jhar, you have to do what you have to do, Many of the things you mention are definetly a part of Detroit and unfortunately arent going to change. Many of the things you mention are common in many cities today and it is a part of urban living to some extent but each city is different. I guess its the luck of the draw but some of the neighborhoods are different. I am just the opposite of what many spoke of. I moved from Downtown to the burbs for three years , it was nice ,, ( Huntington Woods) but missed living in my downtown neighborhood ( Lafayette Park). I moved back a year and a half ago, Yes, the city has many of the problems mentioned ,but I really like living in my area, great neighbours, cool architecture with good value compared to the the new construction going up, close to the city ( walking) and river and great neighbors who truly care about Detroit. Security was a major concern so I logically put myself in a place/area where it was good. I walk constanly all over and have never had a problem, maybe I am just lucky I don't know. Its very common in my highrise co-op (1300 Lafayette) for a person in the elevator to just blurt out how much they enjoy living downtown and many of them have been here for a long long time. I've never regretted moving back and when I go back to see old friends in the burbs I have no care to move back, its just not for me. The lifestyle is just too structured with what any normal suburb offers and it felt like every suburban downtown was trying to act like a big city downtown but just didn't cut the cake for me. I need the diversity to be happy and what convenience the suburban life offered was more than offsite by the lack of stimulation, which I do get by the attractions downtown, so , I decided it was right to go back. I also got very weiry of sitting in my car constantly in large traffic jams. I have many weekends here where I seldom start it. The poor school system is not a factor in my life where as I understand it is a major detrement to people with kids. The downtown area has changed much for the positive so that was a great plus compared to what I had experienced years before. Many of the long time residents here laugh when they hear relative newcomers complain about certain things, They usually say they should have been here 15 years ago, its like heaven now compared to what they put up with then. To each their own..Maybe if you tried a different neighborhood and rented you might change your mind but if your really tired of how you live and what Detroit is like you probably should move. Detroits ' problems will most likely not erase themselves, it is and will get better in the core area but many attributes are most likely a constant. (Message edited by detroitbill on June 11, 2007) (Message edited by DetroitBill on June 11, 2007) | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 42 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thanks Detroit_stylin. I have to kind of agree with you. There is an affinity for living in Detroit. I do often vacation and look forward to coming home and cruising down Woodward or stopping by Harry’s or Nemo’s and watching a sporting event on TV. Mbr: Allot of it is security and my desire to roam. I enjoy walking places which I do around Wayne State/DIA area. I’m always cognizant of “not going too far.” I was looking at some condos down on the river (both downtown and more towards Belle Isle). The problem seems to be the same. I am safe INSIDE my building but then you become a prisoner in your home. WHERE ARE ALL THE SAFE WALKABLE NEIGHBORHOODS IN DETROIT? Am I driving by them and just don’t know it? | ||
Lilpup Member Username: Lilpup Post Number: 2300 Registered: 06-2004 |
Do you think things are too far gone for Neighborhood Watch groups or a Curtis Sliwa type group to make a difference? If it was possible to get educated about citizen's arrests and all that would it make a difference? Obviously the PD needs help, but what's a realistic way to give it? | ||
Spiritofdetroit Member Username: Spiritofdetroit Post Number: 504 Registered: 11-2006 |
Jhart - just dont move to far away. I live in the burbs, although I plan on moving to the city in a few years once I can, but I still enjoy the city and its offerings all the time. It's kind of the best of both worlds. I get the comfort and safety of a beautiful suburban home and still get to enjoy all the great things detroit has to offer.... That said, I still think living downtown would beat my comfortable setting now. I'll give it a shot and see | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2918 Registered: 02-2005 |
I agree, you are concerned about the security element. I don't live in midtown so I will trust what you say, and I agree that it's hard to go more than a few blocks anywhere without having to look at serious blight/eyesores and running across people you really don't want to run across. That wouldn't be a problem if there were a ton of other normal people walking the streets with you, but few areas are vibrant enough to provide that sense of security especially at night (outside of the CBD, which I have no qualms about). Anyhow, I think you are just a bit restless. I am really restless in Ann Arbor right now. This feeling happens to people in the "best" of cities. I would recommend maybe a different neighborhood or a different set-up. Maybe move to a high-rise if you haven't tried that yet. Maybe move to an old rehab if you're living in new construction, or look at some of the other inner-neighborhoods, or maybe downtown itself. I think that living downtown would allow you to be in a place where noticeable improvements are going on, and there is that security in numbers (with a good amount of people often on the steets) that you might be looking for. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 44 Registered: 04-2006 |
Detroitbill: Thanks, you have given me something to think about. One thing that came to mind is that my neighborhood, up until the last few years, is transient by design: students have moved in and out for years (now its thugs). Point being that there is very few home-owners/long-term people in the neighborhood. The few that are here are great! We all know each other. Maybe I need more long term people around me. Maybe downtown/downtown would be better. I had a chance before to move to 1300 Lafayyette. Not allot nearby to walk to unless you go west to Greektown. Anyhow, something to think about. One more thing: I concur with you about traffic jams. I hate being stuck in traffic on the freeway. That in itself has been a BIG reason why I stay. I think I live in the perfect location. I just wish the neighborhood would live up to its potential – soon! | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 45 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thank you Mackinaw. Those were great suggestions. | ||
Imperfectly Member Username: Imperfectly Post Number: 248 Registered: 06-2004 |
Jhartmich I live in Lafayette park also in the Leland Lofts and the thing I like best about this neighborhood is that it is seperate from a lot of bars and such. Its green and walkable and friendly. Greektown is an easy walk...I walked down to the riverfront satruday. I also have walked to campus martius. I looked at a place in midtown and while I love it there ... the artsy feel ... I really feel safe here in LP. | ||
Granmontrules Member Username: Granmontrules Post Number: 95 Registered: 01-2007 |
If you aren't happy then LEAVE. I have said it before to those who aren't happy...quit bitching and leave. | ||
Jenniferl Member Username: Jenniferl Post Number: 373 Registered: 03-2004 |
Jhartmich, The "hip" suburbs aren't exactly crime free, especially the ones that have a lot of bars/drunks. Everyone I know who lives near downtown Royal Oak has had run-ins with homeless people. In Ferndale, there's a neighborhood near an alternative high school where the students are known to cause trouble. The 'burbs don't seem to have as many drug and gang problems, though. Suburbanites do buy and sell drugs, but for some reason there aren't so many shootings and crap. I wouldn't judge the entire city of Detroit based on Midtown, though. In a lot of ways, it's still the Cass Corridor. Mexicantown might be worth looking into. They have the pretty old houses, some nice restaurants and stores, and a more family-oriented atmosphere than Midtown. I also heard that someday soon there will be a land bridge connecting Mexicantown to Corktown, which will make the walking experience more pleasant. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2921 Registered: 02-2005 |
Granmont, he/she is not bitching, just sharing his/her observations about a place which he/she clearly loves, but is just having some issues with. What you suggest is like getting divorced just because you have a few complaints...nothing too bad happened, but you're gonna give up just cause of some bitching or small problems? Nope. Jhartmich, glad I could be useful for a change around here. | ||
Barnesfoto Member Username: Barnesfoto Post Number: 3640 Registered: 10-2003 |
jhart, you are on to something when you mention the transient population of the cass corridor, er, midtown...There's always been serious crime there, but now the rent isn't cheap any more...That's not my idea of fun. I think too, that Northwest Detroit, where I grew up, is out... Paul McCall got robbed there in 1978, as he reminds us weekly. But somehow, I don't think that you were considering a place at Grand River/Greenfield. There are other neighborhoods with great housing stock, but walking to the store at night to grab a six-pack puts you in jeopardy. That's always been my issue with Boston-Edison and Indian Village. I have this strange idea that wherever I live, I should be able to walk to a store at night. My last summer in Detroit was spent in Hubbard-Richard, an area with a mix of old and new housing stock and neighbors who ran full spectrum from black to brown to white; from illegal immigrants (who PG assures us are deadly criminals, but then he's never really met any) to multi-generational families to hipsters to city employees...Adjacent neighborhoods are Hubbard Farms and Corktown. There is a very strong sense of community activism in all of these areas, and you can walk or bike to any number of great places, from Honeybee Market to Slows, to myriad SWD Taquerias, to Downtown... The crime issue is not going away soon, but during my time in Hubbard Richard (2 years) the only crimes that I knew of were the theft of an old sink from my yard by scrappers and the break-in of a neighbors house (the perps were pulled over on a traffic issue by DPD and put out of circulation for a while). I did once come home to find what looked like a gun battle going on, but it was just some dudes playing paintball. Hope that this helps. | ||
Gannon Member Username: Gannon Post Number: 9437 Registered: 12-2003 |
I've been in Eastern Market for over a year and a half now. I walk most places, although I've taken to riding my bike across town to Corktown, and did so for a party Saturday night in Woodbridge. Thing that I think got me this far without incident is walking with eyes UP, noticing everything and everyone in my path...and acknowledging everyone who even glanced my way. Caring to let them know I'm aware they exist. The 'caring' part might be the crux of the issue...on the way to somewhere in the past few days I realized all we need are more people who care than those who don't. So, Jhartmich, since you still care you are not allowed to leave! Once you don't, you can go. | ||
Professorscott Member Username: Professorscott Post Number: 432 Registered: 12-2006 |
I think I know how to fix a neighborhood - but with the particular neighbors I had when I lived in the City proper, I couldn't get it done. What is killing so many of the remaining Detroit neighborhoods is not just crime but the tolerance of crime by the neighbors. When we got burglarized (twice in six weeks) my neighbors were sympathetic but resigned: "oh yes, it happens". Of course, DPD did abso-effing-lutely nothing, not one damned thing, not even a pretense. And we put up with it! Well my neighbors did - we moved to the burbs. It would have been better for everyone in the neighborhood (most of us had been burglarized in the recent past) to march to the precinct and refuse to leave until we got satisfaction from the police that they would do something. Like bureaucrats everywhere, DPD does the minimum it has to do to keep people off its back. In Detroit, unfortunately, that isn't much. When people stop tolerating street crime and thugs, and force the City to react appropriately, then and only then will the neighborhoods start to come back, IMHO. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1484 Registered: 11-2003 |
It is normal. I've been in CA for most of the last 8 years, with only about 9-12 months outside the area since coming to school here in the bay area in Sept 1999. Most people think CA is heaven. Yet I've NEVER felt like home here. Maybe I'm just not a California-guy, but it has never felt right. I grew up in Michigan, Indiana, and Idaho, and all are NOT CA. So I find myself more intrigued by other places. I like Seattle better than here. I LOVE Chicago. I have found a peculiar love for Detroit when I was there in 2003. I think I'm a northerner and maybe deep-down a midwesterner at heart (despite spending most of my time in Idaho). I don't know why. We have no winter here. It is almost always sunny. There is a ton to do. You ask a lot of people and San Francisco is their favorite city on earth. I like it, but it isn't me. It has never felt like home. So I find myself wanting to get out. I tell people that, and they look at me with the craziest eye, like I'm crazy. I've met people that say they'd do anything to live where I do, and yet I want to leave. Part of it is the housing. Part of it is the job. But deep down, it just doesn't feel right FOR ME. So that's the kicker there. People think they're gonna like something, but it doesn't work out. Its all about what is best FOR YOU. Do what makes you happy. I might stick around awhile, but eventually will go someplace else. Sometimes you just figure it out after awhile and it all clicks. Maybe you're just finding out that the D just isn't for you. I hope you stay. People like you are what the city needs. But if you're not happy, find a place that will make you so. I'd do the exact same thing. Best of luck  | ||
Dexterpointing Member Username: Dexterpointing Post Number: 131 Registered: 05-2007 |
u guys need me as mayor, ill clean this mothereffer up. Then i'll learn proper grammar because I dont want to qualify in the stupidity dept as the last 58 mayors have. | ||
Hairybackjoe Member Username: Hairybackjoe Post Number: 21 Registered: 06-2005 |
Jhartmich, Wow, I was just asking myself the same question recently. I live down by the riverfront like you mentioned, so my situation is a little different. But in talking with some family and friends about some of the same things you discussed I was presented with the following (reverse) argument: you've found reasons to leave and you are asking for reasons to stay. why not get more involved with the 'renaissance' and become a part of the solution? I was told to get involved more with some of the civic groups around here (Detroit Synergy, Jefferson East Business Assoc, etc) and you know, they were right! I hope this helps. Lord knows we can use more people like you here in the city if we're going to turn this place around. | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 984 Registered: 11-2003 |
Yeah, as discouraging as it is sometimes, you just have to get involved and stay positive. Our neighborhood is excellent. I don't have any of the complaints you do, but then, our community is very connected and active. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 735 Registered: 07-2005 |
And your community is Eric? | ||
Eric_c Member Username: Eric_c Post Number: 985 Registered: 11-2003 |
Field Avenue between E. Vernor Highway and Charlevoix Avenue in the Islandview Village/Moses W. Field Historic District. | ||
Iheartthed Member Username: Iheartthed Post Number: 950 Registered: 04-2006 |
^I was actually going to suggest something similar to Hairybackjoe. But anyway, I think you've made up your mind already, whether it is to stay or to go (I honestly can't tell). If you don't like being there I do hope you go. I don't recommend anyone stay anywhere that they don't like. | ||
Quozl Member Username: Quozl Post Number: 736 Registered: 07-2005 |
Thanks for the reply Eric. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 302 Registered: 03-2007 |
Who remembers Woodward Ave. 1990. It was a nightmare. Cass was completely smothered with homeless and crack heads for miles. The lived in abandoned victorian Mansions, abandoned hotels, and highrise halfway houses and homeless shelters. Screaming hookers lined Woodward avenue. There were no cool restaurant, not hard rock, no mid med lofts, no woodward place condos , no ball parks, Caddillac square was a shit hole, white people were on cnn news talkin bout angry blacks beating them up during the fireworks. Wayne state was a shit hole. no renovations, no restorations in brush park. All the housing projects surrounding downtown were fully occupied, Burned storfronts lined Woodward, the riverfront was abandoned factories, ren cen was a ghoast town, broadway was a shity street. Hudsons department store was still standing with no plans. Book Caddilac was bout to be torn down there were no casinos. belle isle was filthy and violent. Downtown was known as "not safe". Blacks were still protesting Dearborn and Warren. So after all these massive changes, if your still in the clouds as to what direction this city is moving in, then its simply not for you. I live downtown and cant even sleep with the 24hr construction crews redeveloping Book Cadillac, Pick fort shelby, building the Rosa Parks transit center, Loud excited crowd at Comerica Park, street cleaning with lime colored jackets, gridlock traffic at least 4-5 days a week. Fans screaming D.E.T.O.I.T BASKETBALL, BASEBALL. 3 MASSIVE CASINO HOTEL EXPANSIONS topped with 400 hotel rooms a piece. Riverwalks amazing tranformation..the good these days outweight the bad. either be apart of the "new blood" or go. I understand the pains of the last few decades, i stood in front of the abandoned hudsons department store waiting for the woodward bus in the 90, total nightmare. yes its a new day with tons of more to do, but you'll be back, jus let us keep up this pace for the next 5 years. | ||
Jt1 Member Username: Jt1 Post Number: 9392 Registered: 10-2003 |
quote: Let's not go overboard. I like your post and the optimism in it but 4-5 days a week? | ||
Vas Member Username: Vas Post Number: 729 Registered: 01-2004 |
I feel you Jheart. You are on the edge of change. Things are still raw and take a lot of internal strength. Thugs and vagrants abound. Don't let them absorb all your hate, or they will you drag you down with them. If you're here to be hip you won't survive. Its about challenges and being an island of change in a ruthless storm. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2924 Registered: 02-2005 |
Gridlocked maybe near the Larned/I-75/Jefferson interchange at 5pm, or Madison after court gets out, or Woodward after Tigers games...but never too bad. Imagine if Rock Financial moves their many thousands of workers downtown. Downtown_remix, thanks for jogging our memories. I appreciate your enthusiasm. | ||
Futurecity Member Username: Futurecity Post Number: 553 Registered: 05-2005 |
I see you staying and that you will continue to positively contribute to something larger than yourself. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1486 Registered: 11-2003 |
Getting into the community does sound like a good idea to whomever suggested that. Does DPD do a sort of "deputy" program, where you can volunteer/get paid to work a couple days a month? I know they have something similar out here in CA (my roommate is planning to do it), and they're always looking for people to come in and do it. I do remember when I was in Detroit that I did a couple events with the greening of Detroit. One was helping to plant trees on the Alter/Fox Creek hill there. I LOVED it! The people were friendly, and because I have family and friends that live on Barrington in GP, I drive down Alter all the time. Thinking that (hopefully) those trees that I planted will still be there when I'm an old man makes me feel really good. They've already gottan bigger and healthier, and its fun to see that. So I like that suggestion. I know it made me feel as though I was helping to make the D better for everyone, even though I didn't live there. It was a very nice feeling to help the city and the people. I know I felt more connected after that and wanted to do more (I then moved). | ||
Dexterpointing Member Username: Dexterpointing Post Number: 140 Registered: 05-2007 |
dude, just do you. Forget about feeling loyalty. Detroit aint showin you any is it? | ||
Detroitbill Member Username: Detroitbill Post Number: 256 Registered: 09-2006 |
Downtown Remix, you are very correct in your historical summary of what midtown was like in the 90s etc,, For those of us who lived downtown in the late 80s/90s it was a far different picture as to what we are looking at now. New housing development anywhere was non existent, traffic backups for entertainment with the exception of Red Wing games nothing but a fantasy and very few of your suburban friends had a clue what was downtown and the " I really like going downtown " comments you hear now a total dream. There is a ton of progress to go but we have came many miles since then. | ||
E_hemingway Member Username: E_hemingway Post Number: 1213 Registered: 11-2004 |
Jhartmich: You gotta do what you gotta do. The reasons I stay in Detroit aren't necessarily the ones that will keep you here. I'll tell you what though, I walk a lot more, only look at my car at most three times a week, enjoy some of the best restaurants and bars around, have lost weight and made some great friends. I also watch the city improve a little more each day. The downtown area is improving. It's on Detroit time but there are billions of dollars and a lot of momentum behind it. I know this is stuff you already know, but these are some of the reasons why I stay. Since everybody else is shouting out ways to get involved in improving the city, here's my suggestion. One of the best ways to fight the crime problem is to volunteer as a mentor with one of the local non-profits, such as Big Brothers Big Sisters: www.bbbs-detroit.org. Most of the petty property crimes are done by kids or young adults, many of whom need some sort of guidance. Spending a few hours with a kid in need of a responsible grownup in their life once or twice a month could be the difference between him or her staying in school or becoming the next thug in a dark alley. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 334 Registered: 11-2006 |
The only reason why you can't walk more than three blocks is because you have convinced yourself that you can't. You are making yourself a victim before anything has happened to you. I know that sounds like crap but its true, if you walk like you belong in any given place people aren't going to mess with you, but with your anxiety everyone can tell that you have a fear, and that just makes you more of a target. I am not going to tell you why you should stay you need to know why. Its all about perspective, and seeing what you want to see. If you want to stay stay, if not go. Lots of people had great advice here, and getting involved is the only way you are going to make Detroit the place you want it to be. | ||
Jerome81 Member Username: Jerome81 Post Number: 1490 Registered: 11-2003 |
6nois- you sound like the dog whisperer You must be dominant. Animals can sense when you're not the pack leader and they take advantage of that. You must be pack leader. Haha. But I do think you have a point. You won't find me venturing into any and all areas and showing no-fear however. But where I do go, I do keep scanning the surrounding and walk like I have someplace to go and I'm where I intend to be. Like anything else, you can't necessarily prevent something from happening, but you can affect the odds that they'll choose somebody else over you. That's partly why people feel much safer in big groups. The likelihood you'll be the target is greatly reduced. And the more you look like you know what you're doing and what's going on around you the less likely it is you'll be picked over that "other guy". | ||
Al_t_publican Member Username: Al_t_publican Post Number: 195 Registered: 06-2004 |
All Detroiters should stay in Detroit so they can keep funding my pension from the fire dept. For every Detroiter who stays in the city I will give them a case of Blatz. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 46 Registered: 04-2006 |
6nois: Thanks for your comments. I hate talking about the negative but your comment “You are making yourself a victim before anything has happened to you” is not entirely true. I have been robbed twice, both times with a gun to my head, and had my house in SW Detroit broke into twice, and my car broke into twice here in Midtown. But all that is behind me but I do consider myself as street smart as I can be. Things just happen sometime when you least expect it. Regardless, I have stayed. Enough of that. I appreciate the comments about being involved. I work with children so that occupies a lot of my time. I have volunteered heavily in the city but that does not change my current feelings. I think the best part of everything I have read are the suggestions about moving downtown. Hairyblackjoe posted what I thought would be my feelings if I moved to the riverfront: that the same issues would arise there. I have looked EVERWHERE along the river for a condo and few are really appealing. Matter-of-fact, I think you people along Jefferson are MUCH more a prisoner in your homes that I am here in Midtown (I would say the same about living in Eastern Market – not for me). I just can’t see myself walking along Jefferson on a nice Saturday night. I would much prefer walking around Wayne State or the DIA area (as limiting as that is) than Jefferson. Back to downtown: That might be a possibility. I think one of the things that I have re-discovered is that I want a less-transient neighborhood than Wayne State. That deduction is a start. | ||
Ray Member Username: Ray Post Number: 913 Registered: 06-2004 |
I hope you stay but I understand your frustration. I get so pissed at the city's political elite. There's no reason the DPD has to suck so badly and, if it didn't, the crime would plummet. It's one excuse after another but they have no one to blame but themselves. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 48 Registered: 04-2006 |
Ray: What did Rudy Gulliani (?) do in New York years ago to clean it up? I heard NY was really bad and the cops went ape-shit on EVERY crime from drinking in public to sleeping in the park. Anyone know the story behind that? Would it work in Detroit? Why or why not? Just curious. Thanks. | ||
Steelworker Member Username: Steelworker Post Number: 911 Registered: 02-2004 |
JHartMich Ive lived in midtown off and on all my adult live. The crime(2 cars stolen, 2 bicycles) has bothered me and pissed me off each time to the point I moved away, but I always came back., Recently on my last exidious from midtown I moved to ferndale and enjoyed it but felt it was too expensive. I in turn chose a great option which I have loved so far is Hamtramck, in my opinion plenty of places to safely walk around in and quiet enough for us not in our early 20's anymore. Plus I love the true diversity of cultures not just white and black. | ||
Neilr Member Username: Neilr Post Number: 522 Registered: 06-2005 |
Jhart, you are referring to the Fixing Broken Windows theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B roken_window The theory suggests that if you deal with the small crimes, or quality of life issues, the big problems will also get taken care of. As a start, Guiliani put an end to the "reign of terror" (my opinion) of the squeegee men who harassed drivers, subway graffitists and fare evaders. In Freakonomics (2005). Steven Levitt disputes the theory and offers up other reasons for the drop in crime. | ||
Illwill Member Username: Illwill Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2003 |
I don't necessarily think it's the "thug element" and "Detroit not being a very walkable city". I simply think you've out grown the place and the novalty/excitement has worn off. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. People who live in the greatest of cities e.g.(Chicago & New York) realize at some point that it's time to move on and that they want a change. Maybe it's the weather, the rat race or the lifestyle? That's only natural. Detroit will always be around if you choose to come back. | ||
Jjw Member Username: Jjw Post Number: 331 Registered: 10-2005 |
There are some cities that are very "walkable" and some that are not. Detroit to me has never been a walkable city and that is the reason why I left. I realized that life is very short and decided to move to a city where I can enjoy a walk which turned out to be Baltimore. Yes, many parts of it have a thug mentality and there is a lot of crime. But, the crime occurs in some neighborhoods and not the entire city. I am sure there are neighborhoods in Detroit that are relatively crime-free but that still did not satisfy that urge I have for walking. I walk about 5 miles each day to many different parts of the city and never feel threatened. However, if you want an ideal world which is crime-free, I don't think that exists. All cities have crime. And... all suburbs have crime. A lady who volunteers at the church across the street from my home recently moved to the burbs because she was tired of the poor parking and rowdy neighbors. After moving, the very first day she was in her new suburban home, she went out to her car to find two of her tires missing. So much for feeler safer. I grew up in Detroit, went to college there and worked there: all in the city and I have never been a "victim" of crime except one time when I was robbed in the burbs at a gas station up the street from Beaumont Hospital. Shit can happen anywhere. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 49 Registered: 04-2006 |
Thanks Steelworker: It just so happens that Ferndale is one of the places that I am looking at. They have more “user friendly” neighborhoods and not quite the cost of Birmingham or Royal Oak. If I leave Detroit, there’s probably a 75% chance that I will buy something in Ferndale. As far as Hamtramck; that’s not what I’m looking for. Illwill: When you say that you don't necessarily think it's the "thug element" and "Detroit not being a very walkable city”, let me say again…IT IS FOR ME. I find myself being less tolerable of blaring stereos and crack heads (even if harmless) on my front stoop. Regardless, we all have our opinions. Thank you NeilR for the link about the broken window theory. Having read it, I think racial issues will prevent that from ever happening in Detroit. Race relations prevent us from doing a lot in this city (and region). Kwame will never “lean on” the peep’s like Rudy did. I just don’t see it happening. LOL….I can hear Joann Watson now…LOL | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2405 Registered: 07-2004 |
Jhart, come to Ann Arbor; it has everything you desire.... | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 52 Registered: 04-2006 |
Citylover: Too small town for me for the price. Did my undergrad there. It was fine but don't want to be that far from a major city forever. The cost of living there has increased dramatically and if I read correctly, crime has increased there tremendously also. Beautiful city but not for me. | ||
Downtown_remix Member Username: Downtown_remix Post Number: 329 Registered: 03-2007 |
You mark my words, The master plan for greater downtown is in action. the moment BOOK CADILLAC and Pick-fort shelby hotels opens along with 3 major casino hotels, hot riverfront condos, a revamped eastern market and a quick train ride to Ann arbor and the airport, greater downtown DETROIT will be a walkers paradise. | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2409 Registered: 07-2004 |
Understood............however crime has not increased tremendously in Ann Arbor. | ||
Detroitrunaway Member Username: Detroitrunaway Post Number: 10 Registered: 06-2007 |
Hey DT_remix...I see we really think alike. I found this forum just as intersting as the Pardise Valley forum. Reading some of these comments on staying...almost brought a tear to my eye. Made me realize just how much I miss Detroit. | ||
Sticks Member Username: Sticks Post Number: 328 Registered: 08-2005 |
quote: I think more than a few people are feeling like this. Do we stay in Detroit, which is obviously rising from the ashes, or do we move to an already established world city like New York, Chicago, Miami, or San Francisco? The problem is that we won't know Detroit's peak is until we've passed it. We've seen the trough, sure, but at what point do we hit the top and start sliding back down with people reminiscing about the times when those new "lofts" or condos actually had a decent vacancy rate? quote: The only thing I would worry about in Woodbridge is my car getting side-swiped by the assholes flying down Canfield doing 40mph or speeding through the narrow streets. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 53 Registered: 04-2006 |
CityLover: Maybe crime is a non-issue now. It was in 2006. And all my old friends who I went to school with that are still there support what I said. Regardless, to each their own. http://media.www.michigandaily .com/media/storage/paper851/ne ws/2006/01/19/News/Lock-Up.Cri me.Rates.Rise-1622124.shtml | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2947 Registered: 02-2005 |
I couldn't see myself living in Ann Arbor after I'm done studying here, CL. Basically, you have a city that is neither big nor small. A city that cannot decide if it wants high-rises or not. A city split among students, yuppies, old hippies, and old stodgy folk. What it has now is great. It has a vibrant downtown and campus area, a good bus system, a variety of neighborhoods and housing options, and tons of parks. The architecture is pretty good, but there are a few non-appealing corners of the city (and even downtown) that were poorly planned. So you have all these good things, but the problem is, you don't know what direction A2 is heading in. We know it will always be a good city, we just don't know if it will become a more definitive big city, or if the people who want it to be a quiet southern Michigan town surrounding a modest downtown will continue to win out. Plus, it ain't an underdog like Detroit, and you don't feel like you're on the cutting edge if you're an adult that chooses to live in Ann Arbor. In the future, it is a place I will visit often, and I will care about. If I have a lot of money, maybe I'll invest in A2 (housing etc.). I understand that it is a good place to have a family, but for someone like Jhart and myself, it is too small, as he/she stated plainly. If I spend just a week in A2 and then get off the train in New Center and head down Woodward, being back in Detroit is so refreshing. The lights, the bigger buildings, the skyline, the landmarks, the character (including the imperfections). After spending time in A2, gritty is actually good. | ||
Kslice Member Username: Kslice Post Number: 58 Registered: 04-2007 |
With all the work the city's doin to get the river walk up, the 2 new Hotels, condos for rich people, and all kinds of projects, they cant afford to let crime get worse or even stay the way it is! We have so much going for us! it's the crime, poverty and the Big 3 that are holding the city back. Police protection must improve and burned houses must be replaced with nice houses. I do see the city starting a turnaround in the future. And it will start downtown. People from the burbs will see that downtown is a nice place and want to live closer to it. They will slowly start expanding outward as more people feel this way. BUT!!! A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step... | ||
Citylover Member Username: Citylover Post Number: 2410 Registered: 07-2004 |
Understood as well Mackinaw...........I was simply basing my suggestion on what jhart seemed to be asking for.......... I don't disagree with any of your reasons. Btw jhart occasionally crime spurts happen in A2.Mostly it is opportunistic burglaries and break-ins on campus where cavalier students leave doors open and unlocked. The cops always catch the perps because they are greedy and don't stop unitl they are caught. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 54 Registered: 04-2006 |
Mackinaw: Thanks for your comments. You and I seem to agree on quite a bit here. One thing I would like to add to what you said is that busy and vibrant are too different things. I saw A2 as busy, sometimes very busy, vibrant to me is Pro Sports (Detroit), world class art (DIA), headliner entertainment (The Joe, Comerica Park, The Fox, The State Theatre), and great eateries. One more thing that must be considered (especially now) are the new casinos that will really help make this city "vibrant" rather than just busy. (Wait a minute! Am I talking myself into staying? Lol) I agree with 99% of your post but would you agree that "vibrant" and "busy" are complete opposites? Thanks for your comments. I enjoy reading your thoughts. P.S. So you people don't have to keep writing he/she, I am a he. :-) | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2948 Registered: 02-2005 |
CL, Jhart did cite crime and walkability at the top of his concerns, so invoking the fact that A2 is top notch in terms of these things was fine on your part. One can tell that he/she requires a big city, though. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 55 Registered: 04-2006 |
Citylover: Thanks for your comments. I enjoyed living in Ann Arbor. It is a great city with a great university. I meant no ill feelings. Thanks for contributing. | ||
Mackinaw Member Username: Mackinaw Post Number: 2949 Registered: 02-2005 |
Jhart, there is a distinction. I'm not sure about your semantics but I know what you mean. There is everyday busy, i.e. workers and residents and people just "around" or visiting, which is what a thriving city must be based on, and then there are the events and the attractions like downtown sports, which add busy-ness and mark the fact that Detroit is a big city. In Ann Arbor there is UM football, but that is it's own flavor (a very youthful, alchohol-smelling one which I still enjoy). ...just keep talking yourself into staying. | ||
Jhartmich Member Username: Jhartmich Post Number: 56 Registered: 04-2006 |
LOL.. Thanks for the encouragement Mac... | ||
Gspark Member Username: Gspark Post Number: 7 Registered: 03-2007 |
i would love to move back to detroit but the first thing i would do is beat all the thugs down like rapid dogs he he | ||
Margaret Member Username: Margaret Post Number: 15 Registered: 06-2007 |
Jhartmich, have you checked out Chicago? I think it's a vibrant, wonderful Midwestern city that you would love. I was born and raised on Detroit's far east side, near the Grosse Pointe Park city limit, and left the same year I graduated from high school, 1969. have not even visited since 1975. so that tells you what I think of Detroit. yes, I have some good memories, too. but overwhelmingly, I always felt that Detroit was an overgrown factory town, lacking in the cultural benefits of a city as big as Detroit is. the 1967 riot began on my 16th birthday! maybe it's just the era I grew up in, but...I would never ever consider moving back. but I'm not a city person anyway. viva Montana! but Jhartmich, I think I know what you mean about the Midwestern character, it's sort of a solid type of person. does that sound right? I lived in San Francisco and other parts of California in the 70s and really missed the Midwest at that point. Jhart, you'll figure it out. not to worry... | ||
Long_in_the_tooth Member Username: Long_in_the_tooth Post Number: 54 Registered: 01-2007 |
Best thing about Detroit.... NO TOURISTS!!! |
