  Kid_dynamite Member Username: Kid_dynamite Post Number: 52 Registered: 06-2007 |
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20070627/NEW S02/70627076 Think it would ever happen, or is Ficano just applying pressure? | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 29 Registered: 06-2007 |
I think of Athens, Greece. So many people try so hard to maintain these important pieces of our history in marketable condition...keep up the roof so it won't leak, maintain HVAC so winter conditions won't bust apart the floor structure, keep the electricty on to pump out ground water...whatever. I for one would simply enjoy the building as a ruin. Throw a maintenance free green roof on it, open it up to the open air and let it be an open pavillion for all to enjoy! (am i reaching here?) Cheers, enjoy the Fireworks everyone! | ||
Patrick Member Username: Patrick Post Number: 4602 Registered: 10-2003 |
Lots of cheaper office space downtown right? How many sq feet are we talking? | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 351 Registered: 11-2006 |
The county should not leave the building. Hopefully they can reach better terms for the building. There have been far too many significant county buildings lost and I don't want to see the same thing happen to Wayne County. The architectural significance of the building along as its place at the base of Cadillac Square, which is finally starting to turn around, the loss of the building would be more of a negative than the rent for the building. Jb3, I think your cracked you think the Tiger Stadium an architectural piece of scrap is worth saving but the Wayne County building an amazing piece of Beaux Arts Styling that can't be replicated should be left for ruin. I don't get it. | ||
Chitaku Member Username: Chitaku Post Number: 1452 Registered: 03-2006 |
who owns it? | ||
Thnk2mch Member Username: Thnk2mch Post Number: 954 Registered: 02-2006 |
quote: "County Building Limited Partnership, a private group headed by principals at the Southfield-based Farbman Group that has owned the building since the 1980s, said Wednesday they plan to present new lease terms and other options regarding the building to the county by July 16." From the article linked above. ( edited for too much information ) (Message edited by thnk2mch on June 28, 2007) | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5718 Registered: 10-2003 |
I don't think the county should leave the few remaining offices and chambers that remain, there, but would it really meant doom for the building? Aren't there already quite a few other private businesses in the structure? I fear the article may be painting far too grim a picture. I agree, though. With a county with a shrinking tax base, it doesn't have the luxury, any longer, of paying above-market rates for rent. It is good that the Old Wayne County Building Limited Partnership is presenting new options to the county coming up next month. What I figure is that this is all a ploy to push down the rent even further than the OWCBLP may have been wanting to. Fianco is trying to win in the court of public opinion. | ||
Thejesus Member Username: Thejesus Post Number: 1507 Registered: 06-2006 |
Farbman, which owns many if not most of the more-noteworthy buildings downtown... http://www.farbman.com/ | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 34 Registered: 06-2007 |
6nois, you answered your own inquiry as to my jestful thought process. Way too many significant county buildings have been lost. I for one would rather have it still available even if in the least to be able to admire the craftmanship and quality of it's construction than to have it torn down because it's original purpose of an office building has gone away. Most people only think in black and white (either it's an office building or it's useless...either it's a baseball stadium or it's useless), i'm just trying to get people to think a little differently on how land is used and what it's true significance is, not just how significant is it to my wallet. conversley, i don't give a shit about Tiger Stadium's architectural significance, that one i want saved purely for monetary gain to the City. The Oakland county building on the other hand is sieve apparently. But that doesn't mean we can't still enjoy it just because it's outlived it's original purpose. Peace. | ||
Fury13 Member Username: Fury13 Post Number: 1822 Registered: 10-2003 |
Farbman is insidious. | ||
Nainrouge Member Username: Nainrouge Post Number: 197 Registered: 05-2006 |
I have been to Ficano's offices. They are dark and drab and many employees are working in old cubicles in what is essentially the hallway. No wonder they want new offices. | ||
3rdworldcity Member Username: 3rdworldcity Post Number: 748 Registered: 01-2005 |
That deal was corruption at its worst on the day it was signed and it's just as bad now. My guess is they're setting up a sale of the bldg to the County at an exorbitant price, but one justifiable by Ficano because it will look like a good deal compared to what they're paying now. It will never end. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 38 Registered: 06-2007 |
Correction from my last post'...Oakland county...', Wayne County, sorry. Believe it or not, Farbman is in his business to make money. I actually will give his group a lot of credit and don't consider them insidiuos. Where would our loft craze downtown be without his initiative across from Merchant's Row. Merchant's Row never would of been conceived if it weren't for that project. He did that one on pure speculation, there was no market for it and he initially lost his ass. He didn't give up though, he stuck with it. I doubt he actually made any money on the project in the end and i'm curious if the whole thing ever got completed, but i commend him for trying to establish a market that didn't exist before. But one that he knew was needed if Detroit was to ever get back it's feet. Most developers i know wouldn't touch Detroit with someone else's fifty foot pole. So try not to judge too harshly, but feel free to criticize. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5726 Registered: 10-2003 |
I'm a bit confused, how does Farbman taking a chance on downtown Detroit, give them any excuse or pass to charge exorbitant rent to a struggling Wayne County? | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 43 Registered: 06-2007 |
It doesn't. But how do you know what they're charging is out of line? I'd be willing to bet that the costs of updating that building to modern day standards is more money than it would be worth in twenty years worth of rent. Not too mention the impact it would have on the daily work flow. Most of the offices would probably have to be vacated, and then who's to guarantee they'll come back. I never said don't judge, i just said try not to judge too harshly. I can't imagine that utility costs on that building are very low. I am curious if Farbman gets a break on taxes though. If so, he should pass that savings along to the County. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4701 Registered: 08-2004 |
Well actually the restoration of the Old County Building was something like $30 million back in the 1980's. And then there's the situation with the scaffolding. Remember how it was on the tower for something like 2 years (2004-6?), at a steep monthly rate by the folks leasing out the scaffolds. And IIRC the Farbman folks balked at doing tower restoration work (which begs the question of why they didn't do it back in the 1980's). I'm not sure who finally paid for the work to fix the tower, because there was a lot of bickering about that as well. So Farbman spent $30 million (minus the tower work), and got back $102 million (just since 1988). You do the math... | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 44 Registered: 06-2007 |
How much did he buy the building for? You have to add that in as well. Plus the cost of maintenance, $30 mil doesn't go as far as you might think. Farbman probably bought the place for too much money to begin with, with the idealistic prospect of owning the goliath of historically significant landmarks. Not an excuse, just part of the equation. Plus taxes....did that one get answered yet? | ||
56packman Member Username: 56packman Post Number: 1470 Registered: 12-2005 |
quote: "Farbman probably bought the place for too much money to begin with, with the idealistic prospect of owning the goliath of historically significant landmarks". Farbman doesn't get involved with emotions concerning historical significance. They are a successful business involved with the commercial sale and rental of office and retail properties throughout the SE Michigan region. Their ownership of the Wayne county building is off-pattern for them. It's about $/sq.ft. per location, and it's about location cubed (Location, location, location). It's their business. | ||
Catman_dude Member Username: Catman_dude Post Number: 174 Registered: 03-2006 |
Did the Old Wayne County building used to be a Detroit City Hall at one time? | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 320 Registered: 01-2004 |
No, old city hall was at the opposite side of Cadillac Square, where One Kennedy Square now stands. It was an equally beautiful building built in the same style, unfortunately, it was torn down in the 1960’s in the name of progress. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 209 Registered: 05-2004 |
Hey if you can get as better deal, go for it. Sounds like the tax payers have been getting ripped off with outrageous rent charges for years. Ficano at least is using some leverage to get the rent down. Good for him. There's plenty of office space available at cheaper prices. | ||
Paulmcall Member Username: Paulmcall Post Number: 210 Registered: 05-2004 |
Hey if you can get a better deal, go for it. Sounds like the tax payers have been getting ripped off with outrageous rent charges for years. Ficano at least is using some leverage to get the rent down. Good for him. There's plenty of office space available at cheaper prices. | ||
Gistok Member Username: Gistok Post Number: 4713 Registered: 08-2004 |
I believe that Farbman bought the Old County Building from the county for pennies on the dollar. And I also believe that after 30 years of lease, the County can purchase it back for $1. But that would probably be after at least $200 million in rent... | ||
Tkelly1986 Member Username: Tkelly1986 Post Number: 321 Registered: 01-2004 |
I have always thought that all the wayne county/city of Detroit offices as well as the police ect...should just all move into a renovated MCS and sell the current CAY building. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5731 Registered: 10-2003 |
Why move city and county offices out of the CBD besides just getting the MCS renovation? It's not feasible, anyway. No municipal or county government, in these tough times, have the money for such and incredibly expensive renovation and subsequent move. That's definitely a dream/vision. | ||
6nois Member Username: 6nois Post Number: 356 Registered: 11-2006 |
Jb3 what you are not getting is that opening the building up would do significant structural damage resulting in a total downfall for the buildings. Yes new uses for old structures is great, but you have to use a bit of logic in reuse or it lacks the purpose of reuse which is saving these structures. | ||
Jb3 Member Username: Jb3 Post Number: 52 Registered: 06-2007 |
I can appreciate the sensitive nature of many building materials, but structural masonry is not one of them. An open pavillion really means that what it implies. So i guess if the option were to simply keep the exterior and open up the inside vs. tear the entire building down, i would choose the former. that was all i was getting at. | ||
Detroit313 Member Username: Detroit313 Post Number: 388 Registered: 02-2006 |
$102 MILLION in twenty years!!!!! <313> | ||
Swingline Member Username: Swingline Post Number: 867 Registered: 11-2003 |
Some additional information here. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/a pps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/2007 0702/SUB/707010333/-1/toc The county essentially lent the purchase money to the Farbman partnership. The article vaguely states that the note has no specific repayment terms. Huh? The balance exceeds $31 million (mostly interest) and is secured only by the building. The building is worth only a tiny fraction of that amount. Lots of unanswered questions. One thing is certain though: the Farbman partners have made a bloody fortune on this deal. Any money that was put at risk was likely recovered at least 10 years ago. There are probably limited partners who ponied up $100k for a share that have been getting $50k annual distribution checks for twenty years or more. ROI is off the charts. | ||
Lmichigan Member Username: Lmichigan Post Number: 5745 Registered: 10-2003 |
I wonder who they had to bribe to get that kind of a deal?  Who was running for re-election at the time this transaction took place? lol Talk about a sweetheart deal. |
