Discuss Detroit » Hall of Fame Threads » Capitol Park lofts « Previous Next »
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Gthomas
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Username: Gthomas

Post Number: 68
Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2007 - 9:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do any one have any information on those lofts located on the corner of Grand River and Griswold in capitol Park?. If u know a number where i can reach someone about opening a Jazz Cafe there and getting a residential loft to live with my buddy. I would truly appreciate it. Im from Detroit and hes from Chicago, we're students in Oklahoma and willing to live and open a new cafe there. One location in Chicago called Spoken Word Cafe and soon to be in Detroit one day. It will be called Spoken Word Cafe Detroit. If u want additional info contact me: gtrip313@yahoo.com.....thanks
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Charlottepaul
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Username: Charlottepaul

Post Number: 1234
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Posted on Monday, July 02, 2007 - 8:46 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This building?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/a llanm/15816912/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/s nweb/82914275/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/s nweb/88741282/
Sorry no leads from me on contacting anyone there. Someone here should at least know who owns it or manages it.
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Gthomas
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Post Number: 69
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 3:13 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes that's the building. we love that building,it would be perfect spot for us to live and open our café.if u have any other info please let me know. thankx
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Spidergirl
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Username: Spidergirl

Post Number: 284
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's a sign on the 3rd or 4th floor with a phone number to call. I couldn't see the number from where I was walking this morning through. If I happen to catch it I can post it.
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Downtown_remix
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Username: Downtown_remix

Post Number: 388
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 9:02 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

gthomas--go for it dude, would love to see a jazz spot start the capital park re-mix
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E_hemingway
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Username: E_hemingway

Post Number: 1236
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You want the Boydel Group. Check out a story about them here. There is a contact name and number at the bottom of it.

Boydel Group leasing, renovating downtown buildings

http://www.modeldmedia.com/dev elopmentnews/boydel84.aspx
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Hornwrecker
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Post Number: 1824
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 10:34 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


Capitol Park/Hotel Griswold

wsu/vmc
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Gthomas
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Post Number: 70
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 5:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thankx for the info....i hope to make this area a hot spot again and hope to start this thing off soon. i truly appreciate this and when opened please visit........
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Gthomas
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 6:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Do you have any photos of the interior?
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Royce
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 11:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's a great looking building. Maybe they can tear down the Farwell Building, which I hear is in bad shape, and build an attached garage with retail on the ground floor. That would definitely get folks wanted to move into the Capitol Building.
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Detroit_stylin
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Post Number: 4383
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 11:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I see they tor down the beautiful Hotel Griswold, to put up that horrid parking deck that sits on the NW corner of Griswold and Grand River now eh?
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Gthomas
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Post Number: 76
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 11:43 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Farwell building that bad??? i was considering that lofts were to be there with ground floor retail. I would want it to be a residential/loft center filled young professional and a central hot spot with a young urban-jazz feel to the park. Maybe build a parking structure where the empty lot is on grand river and griswold. Across from the Capitol Park Building.
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Gthomas
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Post Number: 77
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Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2007 - 11:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Once DDOT move to the new Rosa Park terminal, the park should get some upgrades to attract people to live,play,and work there. I see potential in that area, it will be nice to give it that old 18th century feel.
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Charlottepaul
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Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Detroit_stylin, wasn't that parking deck built like 40+ years ago? You should have made more of a stink about it back when it happened...

Capitol Park is certainly the area of downtown that has seen the least from the recent downtown development, and the Farwell building is proof of that, but the beautiful "street-wall" around Capitol Park and the character of the buildings fronting it on those few blocks, should make it the most desireable spot
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Detroit_stylin
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Post Number: 4384
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Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 6:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlotte....seing as how i wasn't born 40+ years ago and always wondering what was once there...that would have been just a little impossible for me to do...
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Citylover
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Posted on Wednesday, July 04, 2007 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A bit of history. On the s.e. corner of the park it self there is a sign that reads: Sunnies_ that was the last location of Sunnie Wilsons jazz club in Detroit.Thru the years he had several clubs.He was Joe Louises personal mgr and advance man as it were. John Cohassey wrote a great book from WSU press about Sunnie Wilson the Mayor of paradise valley.

Good luck .
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Royce
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Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 1:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There was once a McDonald's in that block of Capital Park(Griswold and State). A restaurant or coffee house would go nicely there across from the renovated and busy Book Cadillac hotel/condos.

I still think the Capitol Lofts Building with its "wrap-around" corner is more impressive than the Farwell Building. Save the Capitol Lofts Building and tear down the Farwell Building for an attached parking garage with ground floor retail and watch the Capitol Lofts Building fill up.
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Jasoncw
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Post Number: 387
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Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 2:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I thought the garage comments were jokes.

Hopefully the 1001 Woodward garage, and the BC garage are enough. If they're not, hopefully the Hudsons garage, and the garage across the coney islands would be enough. Or the Trolly Plaza garage, or the Compuware garage.


Anyway, best of luck getting your project done. It would be a really cool thing to have there, and would probably get a lot of business once the nearby renovations are done.
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Gistok
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Post Number: 4834
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Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 3:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tear down the Farwell Building... Royce that is a HORRIBLE idea.

It is one of the finest buildings on the park. Yeah it's owned by Michael Higgins, but it has a lot of potential and character.

No building in Capitol Park should be torn down. Otherwise it will end up like Harmonie Park after the M-L was torn down, not quite as intimate as it used to be.
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Wolverine
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Posted on Sunday, July 15, 2007 - 5:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ignore the people who want more garages. They don't have an appreciation for good urban landscapes and architecture. At this point, I think the whole dedicated parking deal is a bunch of bs.
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Rjlj
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Post Number: 363
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 9:21 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agreed Wolverine, they are totally brain washed and really do not have a clue.
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Danny
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Post Number: 6216
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 9:56 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Capitol Park has been a spot for crackheads and po'folks for over 20 years. Gentrificators are looking forward to revitize that area into their liking.
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Ndavies
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Post Number: 2686
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 11:40 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The parking issue is very real in the city of Detroit. Banks will not finance construction projects without a verified parking plan.

The ones dismissing this issue are the clueless ones.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I long for the good old days, when Detroit had a great mass transit system, and parking was never a problem Downtown. (W Lafayette and Griswold)




wsu/vmc

(Message edited by Hornwrecker on July 16, 2007)
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Gistok
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Post Number: 4841
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 3:38 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies, we didn't see you pounding to rubble the building next door to the Vinton Building to get your needed parking?

Are you telling us that the creative way you got parking into the Vinton Building won't work elsewhere in downtown??

Rather than dismissing people as clueless (the easy way out), maybe discussing the alternatives to tearing down existing buildings so that neighboring buildings can be rehabbed would be more useful on this forum...

As far as the Farwell Building goes, they had a special feature on it in the News/Freep Sunday edition a few years ago. It has a beautiful interior with some wonderful lobby spaces, fancy brass railings, and nice detailing. And it could be renovated into DOZENS of apartments/condos (the building is larger than it appears from the park). It even had some original Tiffany lighting features.

(Message edited by Gistok on July 16, 2007)
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was responding to wolverines statement.
quote:

Ignore the people who want more garages. They don't have an appreciation for good urban landscapes and architecture. At this point, I think the whole dedicated parking deal is a bunch of bs.



This statement was completely clueless. This person has obviously never tried to get financing for a rehab in the city of Detroit. It's obvious he doesn't have an understanding of the financing obligations put in place by the banks and the needs of the people who are going to live there.

Our creative use of the basement is costing the building close to $400,000 for 10 spaces. This will price most loft conversions out of this inventive use.

Most buildings also don't have enough open space in the basement. We were lucky the basement extends out under the sidewalk. We also only have 12 units in the building. There otherwise wouldn't have been space in the basement.

The only reason it's working for the Vinton building is we as developers are looking for a place to live, not to earn a profit from the rehab.

The Metropolitan building is stalled due to a lack of dedicated parking. It was parking that caused one of the issues that collapsed the Lafayette building deal. The Broderick is looking at building a tunnel to the east GCP underground parking garage. The Kales didn't happen until they cut a deal to build their connection to the West GCP garage. 1001 Woodward tore down the block next to it for dedicated parking.

If dedicated parking wasn't an issue, none of these projects would have needed to go to the great lengths they did to get the parking.
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also it would be absurd tearing down the building next door for parking. The end of the First national building that wraps around the back of the block is already a very large, very well disguised parking garage.

The view across from my 10th floor bedroom alley window is into the window of a parking spot, not an office window.
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Gistok
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry Ndavies... and thanks for the info.

I made a suggestion that for the Lafayette Building, they should tear everything down between it and the Michigan/Fort triangular corner, and put up one of those "elevator" type parking structure for that small site (that goes the full height of the Lafayette Building), with 1st floor retail, and ONE condo on each floor of the actual corner tip (imagine the views they would have towards Campus Martius). That way the parking structure would be wedged between the Lafayette Building, and a single tall column of condos on the tip of the corner. With few windows along that side of the Lafayette Building, I thought such an approach would be ideal.

But of course, then of course it would mean the demo of 2 sacred cows... the American and Lafayette Coney Islands. Althought they could be housed in the 1st floor retail.

Also, I wonder what architectural gems might be under the covered veneer of some of those buildings along that triangle of land.

And yes, the Metropolitan Building is sort of landlocked for parking...

Also, I am somewhat ignorant of those parking structures with elevators... do they allow people to remain in their cars? Or must they exit before hand? Or are parking structures with elevators always totally automated (meaning no people can remain in their cars). I dunno...

(Message edited by Gistok on July 16, 2007)
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Gistok
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That First National Building has to have the weirdest footprint in any building downtown! :-)
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There are both kinds of car elevators. Most require the people to get out. This is due to most people not having the driving skills to avoid damaging the elevator.

Our elevator is little more than a glorified service station lift. We won't have any attendants. Our residents will have to get good at putting their cars into tiny places.
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Hornwrecker
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

I wonder what architectural gems might be under the covered veneer of some of those buildings along that triangle of land.



I posted a couple of old photos of that building in the Book-Cadillac/Griswold Garage thread, showing it in it's original form.
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The First National building was built in two phases. I have a copy of an old postcard of the Vinton building. It shows the first national building without the parking garage section. It was added later.
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Detroitstar
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Between the GCP, Opera House, and Permier garages there is 3 parking structures within 1 block of the Metropolitan Building. I see no reason why parking would prohibit any sort of development here. This parking stuff is getting really annoying.
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Between the GCP, Opera House, and Permier garages there is 3 parking structures within 1 block of the Metropolitan Building. I see no reason why parking would prohibit any sort of development here. This parking stuff is getting really annoying.



Once again for the people who want to live in there own little dream world.

The banks will not give you the financing to build in Detroit without Dedicated parking. If you have to walk across the street, It's not dedicated parking. It doesn't matter what you think should happen, only what does happen.
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Rjlj
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 4:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So you asked every bank in existence and they said parking must be attached?
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 5:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

So you asked every bank in existence and they said parking must be attached?



No, I didn't go to every bank in existence. How many banks have you been to to Disprove my statements? I know the banks I was in contact with required it.

The banks that funded the Kales, Lofts of Woodward, Merchant's Row, and 1001 required it.

The Borderick, Metropolitan and Lafayette need the parking. They obviously couldn't find a bank to do it without parking. Since all three projects have been announced and are just sitting. Maybe they are out now looking for your fictitious bank that will provide the financing.

Lots of people are out there trying to get around the problem. The Detroit development community is pretty small. If one group figured out how to get around this issue, the others would learn very quickly. Nobody has it figured out yet.

I tell you what, Why don't you find a project and a bank that will finance without parking. I'll retract my statement then.

Please tell me who will do it. I have some other buildings I'd love to do but can't because of parking.

Actually something even easier than that. Name a single CBD project done in the last 30 years that hasn't built new parking?

(Message edited by ndavies on July 16, 2007)
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Atperry
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 5:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies,

Is that also the reason why there has been no movement on the Whitney? Presumably they would be able to do the same thing as Kales, or are there not enough spaces?

Also, does this mean that the majority of downtown development will be in the form of new construction with dedicated parking (i.e., Griswold), while older buildings sit empty?
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Apbest
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

maybe someday we'll see parking go underground. Look at the popularity (or rather pure logic) of using the GCP underground garage for surrounding developments. Let's run with that idea
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Lmichigan
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Parking is almost always driven underground by land values, so it will definitely be in the future. I'd like to see developers run with it, too, by thinking longterm, but that is little more than a wish. Unless the city is going to chip in money to build an underground garage, anytime in the forseeable future, developers most certainly aren't going to do it unless they have to, and there is too much empty land for downtown for that to even be the case 10 years down the road, IMO.

(Message edited by lmichigan on July 16, 2007)
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Dabirch
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 6:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Actually something even easier than that. Name a single CBD project done in the last 30 years that hasn't built new parking?



Ernst & Young on Campus Martius?
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Ernst & Young on Campus Martius?



Nice try Dabirch. However, you'll remember, It was built on top a brand spanking new parking garage. The new garage was built as part of the campus martius park project. The Hudson's block garage is a similar speculative experiment.

The Ernst and Young building wouldn't be there without the Kennedy block garage
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Dabirch
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, well technically I was correct...
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Charlottepaul
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 8:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies, what percentage of the financing came from banks versus brownfield what nots, tax thingies, etc.?
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Ndavies
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Posted on Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Approx. 80% of the financing comes from the bank. The developers have to come up with 20% and a reserve to pay interest on the loan and certain soft costs. Any incentives come at the end. Tax credits have to be sold and are not valid until the project is done.

So on a $5m project, the developers need to come up with at least $1m plus the interest, Architect, lawyer and permit fees... The rest comes from the bank.
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Eric
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Posted on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 - 12:08 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

Name a single CBD project done in the last 30 years that hasn't built new parking?



The Fort Shelby renovation, they will using a garage across Fort for their parking.

How receptive were the banks you dealt with to shared parking? For example , if the Metropolitan's developer went the same banks with an agreement from the Opera House garage to share the necessary parking with them do think they would get financing?
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Jme1405
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Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 8:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ndavies - It's my understanding that Detroit Zoning requires 1 or maybe 1.25 parking spaces for each apartment. Is this the basis for the financing requirement? The question I'm really trying to get at is whether the City could influence the financing requirement by changing the Zoning law or is it your impression that the financing requirement is simply based on the banks' belief as to what is necessary for the project to be successful?
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Ramcharger
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Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

quote:

The Fort Shelby renovation, they will using a garage across Fort for their parking.



Do you mean the structure that was just purchased by Wayne County? Actually, I think that block and the block directly east of it should be used to expand Cobo Center. Then they could leave Cobo Arena alone.
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Jasoncw
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Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 9:23 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Someone posted here before that banks generally require more parking than the city does.

I think the reason for the city requirement is so that developers don't just throw the burden of parking onto city garages.

I think the reason for the bank requirement is that the bank wants their investment to pay off, and they don't think your project will be successful without a certain amount of parking.
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Jme1405
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Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Quote from Jasoncw - I think the reason for the city requirement is so that developers don't just throw the burden of parking onto city garages.


Does this make sense when there are so many half empty municipal parking structures? I feel that there is really no good reason why the City should have a minimum parking requirement for multiple dwelling units. Why should we use an ordinance to rule out the possibility that someone might want to live in an apartment downtown and rely on walking and public transit?

Of course banks having this requirement is another matter. It's easy to see where they're coming from. They just don't believe that a project can be successful in Detroit without convenient parking. Does anyone know what number of spaces per unit is required for a typical project?
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Royce
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Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 12:35 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Too bad the city had to go ahead and redo Washington Boulevard(WB) before the final decision was made to rehab the Book Cadillac. That whole island area could have had underground parking that could have been used by the BC, Book, and Whitney. I believe it was Skulker who said that it would cost about $30,000 a spot for an underground structure under WB.

However, had the BC deal been in place that may have been an expense the city would have been willing to take. They would then charge those investing in the BC, Book, and Whitney for the number of leased parking spots each development would need. Well, maybe 25 years from now when they redo WB they'll add the underground parking.
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Warrenite84
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Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 1:51 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What would stop a building owner from forming a Limited Partnership to finance the purchase and renovation of a "Metropolitan Building"?

Then set up a lease agreement with a nearby parking garage for dedicated parking and roll those payments into an association fee that the condo owners or apartment renters would cover?

This would bypass the banks altogether.

It would seem to shrink an investors ROI,(return on investment). My guess.

Would it work?
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Detroitfan2
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Posted on Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 5:32 am:   Edit PostDelete Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone interested (or know someone that might be interested)in purchasing a unit at the Griswold via a discounted assignment?
If so contact: jewlcapital@gmail.com