 
Pete
Member
Username: Pete
Post Number: 75
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:09 am: |    |
Thank you Kid for NOT spilling the beans. I've gone through similar experiences before, hearing from someone 'credible' about plans, etc., and inevitably it's always different. Unless you're part of the team, you really don't know, because it's human nature to embellish or exaggerate as a story is passed on.
Patience is a virtue, and we'll all know before long. For those of us deeply invested in the city, it is hard to be patient because we are all going to be affected. It will be a real indicator as to whether our financial and sweat equity is ever going to pay off in the long run. But we'll know soon enough. |
Pete
Member
Username: Pete
Post Number: 76
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:15 am: | |
That being said, I also wonder if the Wayne County deal to buy the Guardian Building is somehow involved in this...if Wayne County consolidates offices there, maybe they will be selling the building on the southwest corner of Bagley and Clifford (across from the Michigan Building) to be part of the development. If that building is razed, there is another entire city block facing Bagley available. Who knows...just a thought. |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1191
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:40 am: | |
>amagining
Yo, I'm no spelling Nazi but...... WHAT?!?! lol.
No offense... |
E_hemingway
Member
Username: E_hemingway
Post Number: 1260
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:46 am: | |
Let's say for a minute that Gilbert really capitalizes on everything he has said and the hype that has been generated for this announcement. Let's also say that a lot of really big downtown players -- Ilitch, Karamos, DTE, MGM, Wayne County and the city -- are all working together on something big, really big. It's awfully coincidental that DTE and the county announce downtown project plans close to the expected time for this announcement, and I don't believe in coincidences. Not to mention all of the Ilitch drama about a new ice arena and possible deal to manage the Masonic. Hmmmnnn...
I could see, and this is pure speculation on my part, an announcement that encompasses development for both Statler and Hudson's sites, a new hockey arena behind the Fox, Olympia taking over Masonic accompanying plans for a large bit of development on the west side of Woodward between the Masonic and Foxtown along with a city initiative to build a light rail line up Woodward to at least New Center. Why not throw in the renovation of the UA, Whitney and building on Clifford Wayne County plans to vacate, along with ePrize moving its HQ here too just for fun. All of this would be announced on July 22, or there abouts, to coincide with the 40th anniversary of the 67 riots. They'll say they're turning the day most people equate with the city's downfall into a day centered on its rebirth, or something like that.
This would definitely be under the category of mega development, something Gilbert has said he wants to do numerous times if he moves his company downtown. Detroit's corporate, political and chattering class elite would hail it as a game-changing day for Detroit. And it would have the possibility of becoming a watershed moment for the city, or at least the downtown area.
I'm probably getting really carried away with my speculation. Watch Gilbert announce he'll just send a few more employees down to occupy a few floors of a downtown skyscraper, or worse yet put off the announcement even longer. I wouldn't be surprised if either of those things happened. But for right now, dreaming is the fun part of all this anticipation. If we're going to think about it, why not think big. |
Chow
Member
Username: Chow
Post Number: 393
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
playing off of what hemingway has said, i recall a "large" announcement regarding lower cass corridor that never came to be. people on this board were talking of something big. perhaps it has been tied into all of this speculation.
imagine: quicken at the statler and united artist. a new hockey stadium behind park ave. olympia managing the masonic and a realistic plan in place for lower cass.
for reference, when did the crosswinds development get announced? was it in sync with the stadia or after? |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4891
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 2:20 pm: | |
Well I think we're getting in over our heads here... I don't think the County situation is related to the Quicken. They just have to make a decision by October.
And I also don't see any plans for mass transit... who has that kind of money? Not the state, and the feds aren't in any mood to hand over a billion or two.
But I do see the possible connection with Trolley Plaza, and possibly a new arena. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 300
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 2:59 pm: | |
megalomaniacs like gleaming towers....eye-catching edifices devoted to their ego...usually built on the water with great views. They don't want views of crackheads having sex or bums evacuating their bowels in GCP. They want vibrant daytime sidewalk crowds, which is not exactly the case at the Statler/Tuller sites...try walking around at lunchtime some day during the week. Not exactly a bustling office crowd. And the view of west Foxtown isn't exactly what I would call a "money shot."
Oh....and Gilbert isnt running a charitable civic organization FYI. Don't get your knickers in a knot over him being the saviour of the city. His career is predicated on the almighty dollar, and getting as much of it as possible. Aside from the nattering nabobs and chattering classes of this forum, few people in the world care whether he builds on the Statler/Tuller or Hudson's lot....and, frankly, more would notice a gleaming tower on the river than a DWB-Statler-Tuller combo project.
But I certainlycould be mistaken. |
Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr
Post Number: 623
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 2:59 pm: | |
Some parts of hemingways idea of a mega-announcement including the arena and quicken HQ are much like my own speculation over on the UA crane thread. I had never considered the Whitney as a possible part of the project, but is certainly possible. The trolley plaza connection is interesting. That could signal that the Statler/UA site will be chosen, but remember it may not be connected at all.
I don't see any development involving both the Statler and Hudsons parcels at this time, and i'm not sure i would approve of one project taking up both sites. Why use two plots of land when you can use one? It doesn't help create density, which is what downtown needs, and is merely building things to take up more space.
Nor do I think Masonic temple is going to figure in on any big project, and i certainly don't see anything pointing toward a huge project that reaches all the way up there. Nor do I see mass transit, which is a huge, expensive undertaking, requiring state and federal dollars and approval.
I think the most likely scenario is that Gilbert announces a mixed use project on the Statler, Tuller, and UA sites, involving the renovation of the existing UA building and new construction. David Whitney building might be included in that too.
Also possible is a joint announcement with Ilitch, where he announces a new arena - which, most likely, is immediately to the north of the UA site, creating one large project more or less bordered by Park, Washington, Grand River, Cass, and I-75. (not all parcels would be included, and the Whitney of course is outside that space) |
Pete
Member
Username: Pete
Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:05 pm: | |
If there is a joint announcement that involves Gilbert and Ilitch, that would qualify as "mega". I don't even think that is going to happen. This is going to be a one man show involving Dan Gilbert, and that would still be great. |
Scs100
Member
Username: Scs100
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:07 pm: | |
Well, if the CC Bar's wall falling over is any indication, it could be a possibility that Ilitch and Gilbert could do a joint announcement. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 153
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:13 pm: | |
Detroitrulez, you obviously don't know much about Dan Gilbert.
By the way, remix...what affiliation do we have with Habitat? I have never even heard of them. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 302
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:18 pm: | |
ok.
Can we start a Dan Gilbert for Sainthood thread? Maybe they could build a Shrine of the Little Rock at which the employees could worship and offer praise and tithing.
I will enjoy being proved wrong. |
Atperry
Member
Username: Atperry
Post Number: 262
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:21 pm: | |
Detroitrulez,
your description of GCP at street-level is inapplicable once there is a headquarters there.
Regarding the view, you may have a point, the river would certainly be better. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 154
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:24 pm: | |
Who would the river give a better view to?? Canadians???? Quicken Loans does not do loans in Canada. |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4893
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:26 pm: | |
Detroitrulez... don't take this personal... but that was one of the most ignorant posts I have ever seen on this forum.
If every developer followed your viewpoint not even Campus Martius would have been developed.
We'll just see how smug you are in 10 days...
And speaking of nattering noobs and chattering classes, I hope you are not basing part of your comments on the Foxtown Grille thread... because you obviously didn't read that one before you posted...
And another thing... "we" (nattering noobs and chattering classes) will enjoy you being proven wrong even more.... (Schadenfreude) 
(Message edited by Gistok on July 20, 2007) |
Crew
Member
Username: Crew
Post Number: 1333
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:46 pm: | |
uh, oh. The Kid's in trouble. I hear Team 24 is like Dan's personal SS squad. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 155
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:50 pm: | |
Tuna, I'm in your division. That's all I'll say. |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 303
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:55 pm: | |
Funny. My quote/unquote ignorant posts are based on as much information as your supposedly "informed" posts...i.e., nada.zip.zilch.
Rampant and slathering speculation aside, if Gilby declines your unsolicited advice re where to build, I look forward to visiting the Lego Tower that will arise on the vacant sites. Perhaps you could link into the DPM with a mini-lego rail system of some sort? May want to check with Denmark on that one.
I read the entire Da eduardo Foxtown Grille thread....my obtuseness was intentional, pointing out by concrete example how quickly people run off on tangents with little information, with the end result that people jump to ill-informed conclusions based on scarce info.
let's see now...ok. check. theory still holds.
schadenfreude-atcha.
Now let's work on our weltanschuung, shall we? |
Pete
Member
Username: Pete
Post Number: 80
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 3:59 pm: | |
>>"....my obtuseness was intentional, pointing out by concrete example how quickly people run off on tangents with little information, with the end result that people jump to ill-informed conclusions based on scarce info."
Isn't that the definition of the internet? |
Detroitrulez
Member
Username: Detroitrulez
Post Number: 304
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 4:05 pm: | |
if that's the case, then the phrase "ignorant posts" is an oxymoron. |
Lowell
Board Administrator
Username: Lowell
Post Number: 3993
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:08 pm: | |
Okay... here is a wild one I heard on Wednesday from a well placed little birdie deeply ensconced in the donwntown real estate scene. IF true, it would be a bombshell.
I preface this by saying it is second hand in that he told me he heard from veteran metro D real estate guy Steve Morris [GVA Strategis], that Gilbert had already signed on with Kojaian and will build in Farmington Hills in the Halstead - 12 Mile - Drake - 696 pocket.
It seems a stretch to me with all the hoopla about downtown. Obviouisly that would be a huge downer, but there it is. I am agnostic because I have nothing more than words but still have to say hmmm, because my source is not chopped liver. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3461
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:31 pm: | |
Halstead/Haggerty and 12 MI seems to be a decent location. Lots of firms are (re)locating there. And, unfortunately, some business failures have been there already, too. Motorola and its now privatized spinoff--Freescale Semiconductor--have their "Detroit" branches nearby. Austin's Freescale, BTW, manufactures some 60% of automotive "computer" chips.
No parking concerns there near 12 or 13, such as having vandalized vehicles for their workers. I doubt that Quicken's employees would bother to stay downtown a minute longer than necessary. Why risk their cars?
In the final analysis, Quicken's HQ workers probably would have to come to terms with commuting downtown. They might already have made their intentions known. Considering today's weak housing market, they would not be very likely to get what they expect for their homes in case any really wanted to relocate their residences downtown.
(Message edited by Livernoisyard on July 20, 2007) |
Scottr
Member
Username: Scottr
Post Number: 625
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:17 pm: | |
Words cannot describe how disappointed disgusted i will be if Lowell's birdie is correct. |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5824
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:17 pm: | |
A decent location or not, Gilbert would be a fool (from a PR POV) to have talked up a downtown location to the degree he has (this is even without blog and media speculation), and then move from one suburban office parkish area to another. Wouldn't it be funny if the company was purposefully disseminating false information...? |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3462
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:26 pm: | |
The amenities in FH are more numerous than Detroit can offer. Much of that area resembles woods and parks, and a really nice country club is nearby, etc. There's even SMART bus service there, in case anybody needed to commute.
I attended a Freescale seminar there (at Motorola's place) 2 1/2 years ago, but my car was ill. The SMART bus route was only about 1/4 mile away. No problem getting there from SW Detroit, even in winter. |
Mdoyle
Member
Username: Mdoyle
Post Number: 142
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:26 pm: | |
Large companies often give bad confidential information to employees to identify leaks. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3301
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:27 pm: | |
You don't move to 12 mile and whatever to make an impact/big splash/"blow your mind" move. That source is wrong. |
Mackinaw
Member
Username: Mackinaw
Post Number: 3302
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:33 pm: | |
Those amenities are a dime-a-dozen in the suburbs, LY, and you know it. There's nothing special, other than good freeway access. If you want a whole different set of amenities that are unique and interesting, you move downtown. Corporations aren't supposed to be located in the woods and parks. |
Livernoisyard
Member
Username: Livernoisyard
Post Number: 3463
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:40 pm: | |
Gilbert can locate his firm anywhere he damn well wants.
It's fairly obvious to even a casual lurker on DY that a fair number of those on DY's most narrow-minded list would consider Gilbert to be the greatest man on the planet if he chose Detroit. OTOH, these same types would call him the biggest sonovabitch if he goes/stays elsewhere. [How dare him lead them on!] |
Lmichigan
Member
Username: Lmichigan
Post Number: 5825
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2007 - 12:18 am: | |
Livernoisyard, just a little testy, aren't we?
If Gilbert was looking to move his headquarters just across the Livonia city border to Farmington Hills, he'd have put his eggs into that basket, or wouldn't have said a word. You seem to have just as much an agenda as anyone else, if not more, flying in the face of everything Quicken has hinted at for whatever reason. FH has plenty of amenities for a corporation, but Gilbert has put far too many eggs in the downtown basket to turn around without humiliation. The guy doesn't strike me as a bullshitter, and he'd have to be wading pretty deep in mess at the moment if he's soon to announce a Farmington Hills move, don't you think? I'm just asking you to use a little deductive reasoning, here.
(Message edited by lmichigan on July 21, 2007) |