 
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 392
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:39 pm: |    |
Rebellion. |
Sbyman
Member
Username: Sbyman
Post Number: 33
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:42 pm: | |
i was readin a story on that. I say both really, because a rebellion is most times a successful form of a riot, but it wasnt successful. so i still say both. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 395
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 8:49 pm: | |
Jack Lessenberry wrote a column on the subject in this weeks metro times |
Detroitstar
Member
Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 756
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:08 pm: | |
Snipers, murders, fires, looting, and citizens hating on other citizens.That sounds like a full blown riot to me.
Regardless of what it is called, there is great work that still needs to be done to heal the wounds from that conflict. Regardless of your opinions of the events, it's time that the citizens of this city start to think as one. There was a time to throw blame around. That ended about 35 years ago.
Racial tensions killed this city and they have not improved in the 40 years since this happened. Blacks and whites need to look at themselves to see what they can do to fix this place, not point the finger at others. |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 255
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:13 pm: | |
Amen to that Detroitstar.
It was a pretty scary time to be living in the city.
My friend's dad was a fireman and had to deal with flying bullets while trying to put out fires.
We could hear gunshots on the Northwest side of Detroit. Pretty amazing to see tanks in the streets. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 398
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:14 pm: | |
The sniping on guards and police is indicitive of rebellion, but yes there were many who stole out of criminal greed. I would like to think race relations have improved somewhat in 40 years. I see much more mixing now than in the eighties. The riot of 43 was a full blown race riot with ethnic racist whites setting aside ethnic conflicts to battle rampaging racist blacks. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 399
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:21 pm: | |
Where in Northwest Detroit Paulmcall? I learned the national guard had to protect many of the fireman.What were the reactions of your neighbors? Did you hear many racist comments? |
Jimaz
Member
Username: Jimaz
Post Number: 2700
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:29 pm: | |
Arguing semantics to determine whether or not the event was justified then distracts from the more critical issue of how to best continue rebuilding from where Detroit is now. |
Warriorfan
Member
Username: Warriorfan
Post Number: 755
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:32 pm: | |
quote:Rebellion.
How does massive looting constitute rebellion? "Let's overthrow the oppressors...but first I need to go steal a new pair of shoes and maybe a TV or three. Quickly, to a business owned by a local innocent shopkeeper, let's destroy his livelihood and then eventually we'll get around to overthrowing the oppressors!"
I doubt the Boston Tea Party would have had the same effect if the men involved simply stole a bunch of tea from their fellow countrymen and took it home with them. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 401
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:42 pm: | |
You cant justify per se, the behaviour, but at the same time the large percentage white police force and price gouging discriminatory business owners werent' all innocent bystanders. You have to put youreself in the other guys shoes.
Truthfully, given the opporunity, I would partake of the looting of a major grocery store, knowing what I know about the unfairness in our society in regard to the huge unequal distribution of wealth in our society. |
Detroitstar
Member
Username: Detroitstar
Post Number: 757
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 9:51 pm: | |
I see what you are saying Terryh and I dont necessarily disagree with you. But when you look back at it BOTH groups are responsible for the results. Both groups did things that they should not have done. In the end it left parts of the city in ruins and it scared off a great deal of the residents. Nobody wants to live in a city that they are scared of.
Just because racial tensions may not be as bad as they were, there are still sociological boundaries that need to be broken down. Detroit is ONE CITY. The whole "east/west of Woodward" thing is a good example of that.
Detroit has had a tremendous opportunity to rebuild itself after a half century of some of the worst economic decline in history. But nothing is ever going to happen without the right attitude. Nothing will improve around here until us citizens start making an honest effort. It starts in the churches, neighborhoods and corner bars. It starts with the simple concept of respect. Respect yourself and your neighbor and take pride in your city. |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 958
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:07 pm: | |
It was a cocktail party with uninvited guests |
Paulmcall
Member
Username: Paulmcall
Post Number: 256
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:11 pm: | |
I lived on Winthrop between Schoolcraft and Kendall.
Grand River and Greenfield had some looting. The Meyers Jewelry Store was hit.
The cops and guardsmen got pretty heavy handed in many cases but some residents took advantage of the situation. The looting was widespread and snipers made it hard to put out fires.
We had a pretty sheltered upbringing where we lived but that changed after the '67 riot.
Block busting and simple fear drove almost all of our neighbors away in the next ten years.
Unfortunately, many undesirables took their place.
When you have neighbors repairing their cars in the street instead of their drive ways or garages it doesn't look good. Drag racing on our side street wasn't real swell either.
Toss in a few armed robberies, a house invasion. a lack of police response and my parents threw in the towel.
I believe our family was one of the few white families left in 1978. Everyone I grew up with was gone by then. My parents tried to make a difference but it became too dangerous to live there. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 146
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:14 pm: | |
you're friggin out of your mind if you call that a rebellion. It was a riot.
(Message edited by kid dynamite on July 19, 2007) |
River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat
Post Number: 278
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:16 pm: | |
Having lived at Mack and Beaubien at the time, my perspective of the events of almost forty years ago are as vivid as if yesterday. This was a riot.
Rebellions have leaders that aspire to change conditions, by non-violent or violent means. Rebellions have defined grievances due to conditions and desired outcomes defined by the protagonists. Rebellions are structured defiances.
In the riot, there were none of these conditions. We still have the same hooliganism and disarray, misplaced blame for poor conditions, and certainly the entire city has been leaderless for the entire time.
This is Detroit. Question answered. (?) |
Opus
Member
Username: Opus
Post Number: 43
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:26 pm: | |
It was a riot that stopped any progress in the city dead in its' tracks and ended up turning the D over to Coleman Young for a period of time that was marked by far worse offenses against the public than had happened before. |
Terryh
Member
Username: Terryh
Post Number: 402
Registered: 11-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:51 pm: | |
Fair enough River rat.Martin Luther King and Ghandi fall into youre description. |
River_rat
Member
Username: River_rat
Post Number: 279
Registered: 02-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 10:54 pm: | |
Terryh,
Yes, they do. They were both non-violent but they lead rebellions that had grievances and goals clearly defined. And they sure were great leaders! |
Rickinatlanta
Member
Username: Rickinatlanta
Post Number: 77
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 11:16 pm: | |
Sorry TerryH, there's no "unequal distribution of wealth". Wealth goes to those that earn it or make the right decisions. The only unequal distribution of wealth is when I pay far more taxes than others who aren't as productive and the government takes a higher percentage of what I've worked for to give to those who can't. By the way, since I lived in the D during the riots, I know that the VAST majority of businesses that were looted were those in the very neighborhoods where the rioters also lived. Now bring on the crying... |
Barnesfoto
Member
Username: Barnesfoto
Post Number: 3788
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 12:36 am: | |
Looting is not rebellion, it's opportunism!
(unless perhaps people are starving and stealing food from those who are hoarding it.)
TV sets, even back then, were not edible, as far as I can recall.
Now if folks had piled up all the televisions and burned them instead of buildings, that would have been an act of rebellion, and a fine one at that. |
The_rock
Member
Username: The_rock
Post Number: 1841
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 8:07 am: | |
If it looks like a riot, if it smells like a riot, if it sounds like a riot, it sure isn't a peace march.
The Freep refers to it as a riot in its recent front page coverage. |
Gravitymachine
Member
Username: Gravitymachine
Post Number: 1735
Registered: 05-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 8:49 am: | |
riobellion
started out rebellion, but once the mob mentality spread, the riot was on. but what do i know, i wasn't alive and none of my family even lived in the state at the time |
Udmphikapbob
Member
Username: Udmphikapbob
Post Number: 390
Registered: 07-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 9:13 am: | |
quote:Wealth goes to those that earn it or make the right decisions.
Or to those who were given the privilege by government to own homes in the suburbs 50 years ago. Or those who are lucky enough to have been born into it since then. Poor people just need to make the decision to go earn some wealth, right Rick? Stupid kids, deciding to get born into poor, broken homes. Should have earned their way into the testicles and ovaries of rich people when they had the chance as sperm and eggs! |
Rickinatlanta
Member
Username: Rickinatlanta
Post Number: 78
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:52 am: | |
I'm sorry but you can still make the decision to better yourself instead of just saying "I was born into a poor family so that's what I choose to remain."
My dad worked on a loading dock in Detroit, my Mom was a maid. I worked two jobs and paid my way through college. Wealth is a relative term in that it doesn't have to mean "rich people" but can easily mean a comfortable living, not wanting for the basics, a good family life. Even if you're born without that you can SURE work toward it. |
Johnlodge
Member
Username: Johnlodge
Post Number: 1222
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:54 am: | |
Rick, your parents probably raised you well despite their financial situation. Again, not all receive that luxury. |
Kid_dynamite
Member
Username: Kid_dynamite
Post Number: 151
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 10:54 am: | |
Amen Rick |
Rickinatlanta
Member
Username: Rickinatlanta
Post Number: 79
Registered: 07-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:06 am: | |
Johnlodge,
My parents did instill in me their work ethic and pride in accomplishment. I'm very proud to have been their son. Incredibly they did this with no parenting classes or outside assistance. I don't consider that type upbringing a luxury but something to be provided by a parent. And yes I do know full well that in today's world that is not the norm which is indeed VERY sad. |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 2232
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 11:12 am: | |
Poverty alone didn't make the situation explode. Good upbringing couldn't save you when the city burst into flames. It was institutional racism that lit the fire.
One of the best descriptions of 1967 is contained in the book "Middlesex" by Jeffrey Eugenides. |
Eric_w
Member
Username: Eric_w
Post Number: 272
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 12:17 pm: | |
Since the riot in 1967 I've heard reasons,explanations and excuses for why it happened. To me it was just lawlessness with murders,arson,looting and other mayhem that scars Detroit to this very day. There was no justification for people miles from where the riot originally broke out to smash out store windows to rob & pillage.
Another poster on this thread says they would likely join in looting a store to get his or her share of goodies-wonder now why no major grocery chains wants anything to do with Motown? Today Sheila Cockrel was meeting with representatives of Kroger to get answers why they did not buy any former Farmer Jack's in the city. I'd say the " let's loot em" philosophy is one big reason. Some want to point to the riot as a rebellion-well then the folks should have invaded the so-called hostile white burbs instead of burning down their own neighborhoods.
To those that think that looting is an answer to supposed injustices, well think about it when you're at the local Arab or Chaldean grocer buying expired food or green meat or buying your stuff through bulletproof glass because that's all you have plus living with iron bars on your windows-boy what progress!
In nature fire cleanses,purifies,clears out old growth to make room for new life and starts a new cycle of life & growth. When Detroit's core burned it only started the rot that went unimpeded for over a generation that haunts the city to this day. |
Little_buddy
Member
Username: Little_buddy
Post Number: 17
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 20, 2007 - 1:25 pm: | |
Most everyone has problems, but most don't kill, steal, loot, burn,etc to "solve" their problems. Bad race relations are a poor excuse for doing all of the above and more, and as long as (blacks) keep using the "poor, poor, pitiful me, the (whites) are why all things are wrong with me" as an excuse to destroy "the city of Detroit", they get the rathole they are making for themselves. Please put whatever groups,people,etc in the parentheses above that fit your need for the situation you are in. The way to change is to start pointing your finger at yourselves, what kind of father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter,etc am I? What kind of worker am I, hard working, non-complaining, sucking it up when the going gets tough,etc. What good do I do for my city? Any? some? Do I work with the schools? The list could go on and on. Successful cities,towns, neighborhoods,clubs, schools,teams, etc have all people working together for the good. But to do so is HARD WORK and today it is so much easier for people lay around and to nothing or worse, do wrong and then wonder who to blame when all things fall apart. The same holds true for whites and every other group. Didn't JFK say "Ask not what your suburbs can do for you, but what can you do for Detroit" |