 
Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1330
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 11:49 am: |    |
Detroit Public Schools were mixed in various degrees, not segregated, in the '50s. Were whites put into certain schools, to the exclusion of blacks? That's the definition of segregation.
The proportion of white students to black changed over the years, of course. But always, a mix. |
Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1331
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 11:50 am: | |
"White people started rock and roll in the 50's."
Oh lord, read up on your music history... |
Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize
Post Number: 1930
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:08 pm: | |
Yeah, White People Started Rock and Roll WAY earlier than the 50s (during the late 1940s to be exact).
(Message edited by Urbanize on July 29, 2007) |
Cklwbig8
Member
Username: Cklwbig8
Post Number: 128
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:18 pm: | |
Please go watch "the History of Rock n Roll" compilation. it all started down south ! |
Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize
Post Number: 1932
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:26 pm: | |
"Please go watch "the History of Rock n Roll" compilation. it all started down south !"
Ok, White People lived down South. |
Pffft
Member
Username: Pffft
Post Number: 1332
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:26 pm: | |
Housing was segregated, so various schools in Detroit would have more or fewer black students, but there was no systematic steering of white students to this school, and blacks to that one, as there was throughout the South. |
Cklwbig8
Member
Username: Cklwbig8
Post Number: 129
Registered: 02-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:35 pm: | |
Is it true Bill Hailey "rock around the clock" was from Highland Park ?? |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1046
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:37 pm: | |
Before Elvis Presley sang "Hound Dog," Big Mama Thornton had house-trained that canine. Before Bill Haley & the Comets popularized "Shake, Rattle & Roll," Big Joe Turner had done all three. The Crewcut's "Sh-Boom" was originally sung by The Chords, and The Beatles' "Roll Over Beethoven" was rocked by Chuck Berry well before the boys from Liverpool "invaded" America.
It continues to be the biggest lie in the music industry - that Whites created rock `n' roll. From history books to rock-oriented cafes, from the pretentious Graceland mansion to the corner record store, White rock `n' roll artists have been immortalized and credited with creating the multi billion-dollar rock music industry.
Lost is the reality that rock `n' roll was actually born out of the belly of Black blues music and raised by Black artists in the 1950s in smoke-filled clubs along Beale Street in Memphis, 47th Street in Chicago and 125th Street in Harlem. Only years later, when White teenagers began openly digging the electric guitars and the pounding drum beats that Black artists were playing - a sound their parents had disparagingly labeled "race" and "rhythm and blues" music - did White disc jockey Alan Freed re-name it "rock `n' roll," and White artists entered the lucrative field without stigma.
And when they did, they didn't revolutionize the music. Lacking creativity, many White artists "covered" songs Blacks had written years earlier and made it big by copying the performing styles, dances and dress of Black artists like Little Richard, who couldn't believe how he and other Black artists were ripped off.
Continues here. |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 555
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
I apologize for intruding but for the life of me I cannot understand how you guys turn a thread about our great institution of Music History into a thread about racism is beyond me.\
Seriously, some of you on here need some mental healing. This constant ranting about black this and white that is very unhealthy not only for you but your children.
Unbelievable!
Anyway, I leave you with this history no one can take from our great city.
Hopefully you guys can go back to the real discussion and forget about the uneccesary hatred.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hFd lgGLRoUQ&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ppo AIDs604M&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zYW TSKnU6lQ&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5Gi sSw2TsGQ&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ufw xXvNy5DE&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XlB GDNF9-u8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WL_ DD3UV_Gc&mode=related&search=
http://youtube.com/watch?v=_4t 9BGiSCC4
http://youtube.com/watch?v=prd DrEWyUyc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=sni hdG1rE0Y
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ii6 ujiw9sdE&mode=related&search=
the good rev |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 556
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 12:46 pm: | |
And for the record, I felt abandoned like most of the city did when Gordy decided to leave us and take our history with him.
the good rev |
Irish_mafia
Member
Username: Irish_mafia
Post Number: 962
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:22 pm: | |
Everyone talks about MoTown leaving Detroit but aside from Gordy's big payoff... were there really any successes by that label after they went to LA?
Shouldn't this thread be titles how did you feel when Motown shutdown? |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1048
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:28 pm: | |
The main objective of Motown's relocation was to branch out into the motion picture industry, and Motown Productions got its start in film by turning out two hit vehicles for Diana Ross: the Billie Holliday biographical film Lady Sings the Blues (1972), and Mahogany (1975). Other Motown films would include Thank God It's Friday (1978), The Wiz (1978) and Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon (1985).
Motown still had a number of successful artists during the late 1970s and 1980s, including Lionel Richie and The Commodores, Rick James, Teena Marie and DeBarge. By the mid-1980s, Motown was losing money, and Berry Gordy sold his ownership in Motown to Music Corporation of America (MCA) and Boston Ventures in June 1988 for $61 million. In 1989, Gordy sold the Motown Productions TV/film operations to Motown executive Suzanne de Passe, who renamed the company de Passe Entertainment and runs it to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M otown |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 471
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:28 pm: | |
urbanize, you asked for 5 rock acts that were black:
Jimi Hendrix
Chuck Berry
Little Richard
Mick Collins/Dirtbombs
Sly & The Family Stone
Parliament
Funkadelic
Rick James
want me to keep going? |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1049
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:30 pm: | |
Don't forget "Living Colour" |
Oldredfordette
Member
Username: Oldredfordette
Post Number: 2307
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:32 pm: | |
Ike and Tina Turner
Living Color
The Busboys
Lenny Kravitz
Ben Harper
Prince |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1050
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:33 pm: | |
24-7 Spyz |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1051
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:35 pm: | |
ORF, Mr. Urbanize will argue that Prince and Lenny Kravitz cannot be included because they are not 100% black or some other cockamamie nonsense. |
Thejesus
Member
Username: Thejesus
Post Number: 1709
Registered: 06-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:40 pm: | |
More recently, the lead singers of the rock bands Skindred and Sevendust are both black
http://www.katrinadelmar.com/s evendust.jpg
http://www.earache.com/news_st ories/earache/skindred.jpg |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 557
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:43 pm: | |
Don't forget Jada Pinkett is the lead singer of the punk group WICKED.
the good rev |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 558
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 1:45 pm: | |
sorry, its wicked wisdom
http://www.myspace.com/wickedw isdomband
the good rev |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 64
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 7:09 pm: | |
Motown brought black music to white audiences and it got mutual admiration.
What I'm saying is, it isn't a two-way street.Talk to people who were around in the 60's. Lots of white folks liked Motown. I've never met anyone who wasn't white that liked the Beatles. In the 60's, blacks knew how to make a product that would sell to both audiences.That was Motown. Right now, I think fear divides people. Fear of being ridiculed for expanding beyond ones culture and experimenting with something else. Sort of like, if your black, your betraying your culture if you dare listen to Pearl Jam or The Rolling Stones.
My response to Urbanizes comment was due to the fact these are all-too-common mindsets."Man, I'm from the hood, I only listen to rap". I encounter many people who subscribe to this philosophy.
Im the whitest, most suburban guy you'll meet, and I dig James Brown. Im from the suburbs, and I enjoy Country music periodically. I also like some Tejano music.I'm not afraid to admit any of this, even though all that music is from a different perspective from that in which I live and experience things. Stereotypes are alive and well and as long as we use them, we will deprive ourselves of being exposed to good talent on either side. |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 473
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 7:58 pm: | |
Quozl - i don't get your claim. no one i ever met claimed that white people invented rock music. the beatles themselves admit that they were enraptured by and based their early recordings on black american southern music + motown. all those early white musicians did was make decent recordings that were at the time acceptable for whites to listen to. (the only way to have parents permit their kids to even touch a dirty rock and roll record would be to have a dorky 40 year old WHITE man like bill hailey singing the music) |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 474
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 7:59 pm: | |
when i worked at the campus martius skating rink EVERYONE was astounded that I (a white kid with big plastic glasses) could recite wu-tang clan, GZA, and Ghostface songs. |
D2dyeah
Member
Username: D2dyeah
Post Number: 63
Registered: 09-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 8:03 pm: | |
No matter where any artist from Motown moves to, DETROIT was where the Motown sound happened. They can leave, but Detroit is what provided the ticket. I grew up in that era, and the whole city was proud of Motown, black and white. Living in Los Angeles for the past 30 years, it still amazes me that people still drive by a house on Maple Dr. in Beverly Hills that Diana Ross lived in 20 years ago!! |
Neilr
Member
Username: Neilr
Post Number: 552
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 8:11 pm: | |
quote:...it still amazes me that people still drive by a house on Maple Dr. in Beverly Hills that Diana Ross lived in 20 years ago!!
I like to point out to people the townhouses and apartments in Lafayette Park that Berry Gordy, Diana Ross, and Stevie Wonder lived 40 years ago. |
Revaldullton
Member
Username: Revaldullton
Post Number: 559
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 9:11 pm: | |
I like the idea of bringing it back to Detroit.
Imagine a Motown revue just like Branson has?
Like the other poster mentioned, it would be what the city needs.
Why don't someone start a petition or an email campaign, maybe you can convince Suzanne DePasse to do the right thing.
After all, its not like she wont be getting paid for it. She would rake it in.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nKw YObz9S2c
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1eQ KRikN9F8
the good rev |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4976
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 9:41 pm: | |
Jiminmn, they may have been in Los Angeles longer now than they were in Motown, but they took all the folks with them. They were mostly (but not all) Detroiters, not LA folks.
But, yeah, it would be nice to see the 50 year anniversary show at the Detroit Fox.
Someone should put a bug in Martha Reeve's ear... |
Gistok
Member
Username: Gistok
Post Number: 4979
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 10:45 pm: | |
LOL... um the Motown Bus left 35 years ago...
(Message edited by Gistok on July 29, 2007) |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 10:59 pm: | |
Can I take the Dexter bus and get off at W. Grand to get to the Motown Museum? |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4498
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 11:36 pm: | |
Bodycount |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1057
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 29, 2007 - 11:46 pm: | |
The last time I looked, the body count was up to 3,648 dead and 26,558 wounded.
Hope this helps Stylin. |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 2171
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 5:39 am: | |
quote:It continues to be the biggest lie in the music industry - that Whites created rock `n' roll
Yes that is not true. But it is also not true that all whites did was rip off blacks while bringing nothing to the table of their own. Look at the history of rockabilly for the country music influence in rock. |
Mallory
Member
Username: Mallory
Post Number: 155
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:02 am: | |
This is all well and good, and regardless of how this thread got turned into a white/black thing, I'd like to get back to the matter at hand - Motown leaving Motown. As a huge Motown fan, I can say that I don't really blame Gordy for taking his company westward. There are two major entertainment meccas in our country: New York and Los Angeles, where, in 1972, Motown had offices. His main objective was to get the TV and movie side of Motown off the ground, and LA was the place to do it.
Much has been written about the result of the move, referring to how many of the Motown staples were left behind. I look back and ask, "how could you leave the Funk Brothers behind?" That decision still stings a fan like me.
Regardless, as I read the many comments on this thread, I am moved to ask, how many of you have been to the Motown museum? Truly a place of history, yet it almost feels like Motown would rather pretend that it is not there. THAT is the tragic postscript to the Motown story. |
Pam
Member
Username: Pam
Post Number: 2172
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 9:08 am: | |
quote:how many of you have been to the Motown museum?
I have. |
56packman
Member
Username: 56packman
Post Number: 1576
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:03 am: | |
Getting back to the original point of this thread, Motown leaving Detroit, there is a point in the music business where you have to be where the deals are going down, principally New York or LA. This has been true since composer Richard Whiting left Detroit for LA in the early 30's and has been ever since. The era of Motown and Stax was a sort of bubble, and the principals of those labels found they had to be in NY or LA to survive. |
Detroit_stylin
Member
Username: Detroit_stylin
Post Number: 4502
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:52 am: | |
Bodycount was the Rock Band that Rapper Ice-T started in the mid ninties Q |
Quozl
Member
Username: Quozl
Post Number: 1060
Registered: 07-2005
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 11:54 am: | |
I know Stylin, just messin' with you. |
Andylinn
Member
Username: Andylinn
Post Number: 475
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 1:18 pm: | |
i disagree. you don't have to be in NY or LA to survive. infact, moving to LA killed motown. the mid and late 70s were a disaster. Basically the success came from singular geniuses like Stevie and Marvin (doing it all themselves, motown deserves no more credit for their 70s material than Capitol Records deserves for the Beach Boys Pet Sounds) The only good thing to come out of the 1970s for motown were the Jackson 5 and the Commodores.
the label kind of disappeared for 15 years after the 70s, offering us Boyz II Men in the 90s... AWESOME... (not)
so with the 20/20 hindsight of history how was LA neccessary? They had national recognition, mass marketing, mass publication, and shit loads of top 10 singles... BEFORE LA... WHY did they need to move? Couldn't they have done films from detroit too? |
Iheartthed
Member
Username: Iheartthed
Post Number: 1241
Registered: 04-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 3:20 pm: | |
>Andylinn
Agreed. B2M was a good group, though... |
Jimg
Member
Username: Jimg
Post Number: 895
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 30, 2007 - 3:33 pm: | |
Businesses, like bands and music, evolve. Perhaps Gordy's vision of what he wanted to achieve in Detroit was satisfied? Maybe he wanted the glam, or whatever, which LA offered? He put us on the map, created a sound forever associated with Detroit. The sound he created on the West Coast is of course different to 'our Motown' sound.
The Motown sound was a distillation of its environment: art reflecting life. Like other wonderful sounds (Bird's Dial sessions, Ellington's small groups) it had a purity, a fineness, which captured a special energy and feeling. And Gordy recognized that uniqueness and molded it into something special. |
Corktown_paddy
Member
Username: Corktown_paddy
Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 03, 2007 - 5:37 pm: | |
I personally felt Detroit was finally dying and the nails were going in the coffin when Motown records left.
The grand musical creativity and sound that put us on the AM radio dial nationwide and worldwide too was totally gone, just like the car companies would be. |
Lefty2
Member
Username: Lefty2
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 2:05 am: | |
i felt that detroit is a motor city town not a record town. they left for financial reasons period |
Rhymeswithrawk
Member
Username: Rhymeswithrawk
Post Number: 843
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 2:48 am: | |
I wasn't alive, but I imagine it was similar to Jack White and Brendan Benson leaving recently. Detroit made them who they are. Without Detroit, they wouldn't be winning Grammys. But Detroit is used to people turning their backs on it. Like Gloria Gaynor, Detroit will survive ... albeit perhaps on life support for a bit. |
Hpgrmln
Member
Username: Hpgrmln
Post Number: 70
Registered: 06-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2007 - 8:04 pm: | |
NEW SUBJECT:
Artists who have STAYED in Michigan when they could have left....this won't be a long list... |
Wfw
Member
Username: Wfw
Post Number: 285
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 3:36 pm: | |
From what I've read on the subject of Motown leaving Detroit, security was one of Gordy's main concerns, particularly after the '67 riot. Even when Motown relocated its main offices to the building on Woodward, the artists and employees were basically in a state of "lock down" due to Gordy's security concerns, whereas Motown Studio A on Grand Blvd had been more of a laid-back, drop-in type of atmosphere. Of course, this was only one factor in Motown's decision to relocate to L.A., but one that shouldn't be overlooked. Let's not forget that Gordy had received specific threats about the Grand Blvd building being burned down.
However, what bothers me most about Motown's leaving Detroit is the apparent haste and carelessness with which it was done. As most of you probably know, even up to 2006 when the Donovan building on Woodward was torn down, it was still full of Motown property, files, personal and promotional items, etc. If Gordy cared a whit about Detroit or about Motown's historical importance, this treasure trove of material would not have been left to rot for 30+ years. This clearly smacks of someone who just wanted to get the hell out, ASAP. |
Urbanize
Member
Username: Urbanize
Post Number: 2107
Registered: 02-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 3:52 pm: | |
^^^SO in other words, Gordy said "Fuck Detroit and it's history. I have a business to run and that's the only thing important to me. If Me, My Employees and Stars Can't Feel Comfortable, We Will Be Relocating" Sounds typical a businessman's Train of Thought to me, no matter what type of perspective you put it in or how you feel about it
(Message edited by Urbanize on August 05, 2007) |
Patrick
Member
Username: Patrick
Post Number: 4777
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2007 - 4:46 pm: | |
Anyone have the number of records Motown sold (Detroit v. LA)? |
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